Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 9,734 mod
    Dime you and I have said it's "our character" far too many times to know that it's never "our character."

    Welcome back though I guess.
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  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 724
    Stubby normals are not fun and lead to screwed risk reward we have now.

    Also either give everyone a braindead jab anti air or take them away and buff other antiairs. They are the fucking worst.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    The stubby normals aren't what makes for the screwed risk/reward.
    They might play a part to it, but I doubt it's a huge one.

    Furthermore AA Jabs exist since SF2, SFV's hit/hurtboxen lead to the efficience of these buttons for anti-airing right now.
    You see most jump-ins in this game have huge hurtboxes in front of their hitboxes, if you have a Jab (or button in general) with a decent high hitbox, you will punch most jump-ins out of the air no problem.
    The hitbox for Guiles J.Hk is at his knee, his hurtbox is all the way down to his foot as an example.
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  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 724
    edited November 8
    Honestly I think the stubby normals play a larger part in the game being a pile of dog shite in the mid range than people think.

    Street Fighter V has almost every character boil down to ‘get in the other characters face and frame trap with mediums’. It’s boring.
    Then certain characters get an anti air jab that is not only more consistent than their dedicated anti air buttons but leads to the perfect SFV spacing, right next to the other character so you can frame trap with mediums. It’s boring.

    Then outside of that range Street Fighter V has ruined zoning enough to the point 99% of the cast want to dash past the range to once again be back in the stubby range to frametrap with mediums.

    Increase the range of normals and increase the recovery and lessen the plus frames on block I say.
    I don’t think it’s right for a Ryu (for example) to miss a sweep because you read the situation right and jumped over him to be able to recover quick enough to stand jab anti air and end up in a favorable position. It’s boring, it’s also pretty high on the fucking bullshit scale in my opinion.

    I am but a scrub though, so yeah. In previous games I’d spend a lot of time getting hard links down or labbing combos or strange counter hits but that’s also not a part of SFV, it’s overly simplified, overly rushdown focused and scrappy. Hopefully AE turns out to be a revolution, I doubt it but I’m hopeful.




    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce In Makoto I Trust Joined: Posts: 3,290
    .
    Danonino wrote: »
    Honestly I think the stubby normals play a larger part in the game being a pile of dog shite in the mid range than people think.

    Street Fighter V has almost every character boil down to ‘get in the other characters face and frame trap with mediums’. It’s boring.
    Then certain characters get an anti air jab that is not only more consistent than their dedicated anti air buttons but leads to the perfect SFV spacing, right next to the other character so you can frame trap with mediums. It’s boring.

    Then outside of that range Street Fighter V has ruined zoning enough to the point 99% of the cast want to dash past the range to once again be back in the stubby range to frametrap with mediums.

    Increase the range of normals and increase the recovery and lessen the plus frames on block I say.
    I don’t think it’s right for a Ryu (for example) to miss a sweep because you read the situation right and jumped over him to be able to recover quick enough to stand jab anti air and end up in a favorable position. It’s boring, it’s also pretty high on the fucking bullshit scale in my opinion.

    I am but a scrub though, so yeah. In previous games I’d spend a lot of time getting hard links down or labbing combos or strange counter hits but that’s also not a part of SFV, it’s overly simplified, overly rushdown focused and scrappy. Hopefully AE turns out to be a revolution, I doubt it but I’m hopeful.




    AE will not turn into SF4.
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 724
    edited November 9
    Doesn’t have to. It just needs to get what’s good about V and flesh it out a little. The current game isn’t ‘bad’ it’s just there is no room for individuality or a different approach. More options can only be a good thing.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 10,318
    Danonino wrote: »
    Doesn’t have to. It just needs to get what’s good about V and flesh it out a little. The current game isn’t ‘bad’ it’s just there is no room for individuality or a different approach. More options can only be a good thing.

    You should try marvel
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
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  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    Danonino wrote: »
    Doesn’t have to. It just needs to get what’s good about V and flesh it out a little. The current game isn’t ‘bad’ it’s just there is no room for individuality or a different approach. More options can only be a good thing.

    Actualy your post suggests exatcly this.
    Not going to say what I don't like about IV, the list is longer than Odins beard.
    But your problems seems to b mainly that you need these hard links as satisfication factor.
    The combos were great at lower levels, know what they were at higher ones?
    Fucking retarded. Dropped a 1f link for whatever reason, random stutter, Stage having some framerate issues etc. etc. and your opponent was mashing his 50% Ultra because he relied on these little things to make you drop your combo. Thats what makes SFIV combosystem the worst in my opinion

    I state my situations, I have 2 accounts one on PS4 with Ultra Diamond and one on PC with Gold.
    The PC account has 3 purposes:
    1) Me fucking around
    2) Trying new chars out
    3) Play with friends.

    The PS4 account is only there to play ranked and sometimes Lounges.

    The thing is the gameplay varierty can differ vastly based on the rank.
    While your discription fits mostly people on Platnium and below, I play at the higher ranks mostly slower games. It's mostly about spaceing, footsies and getting into your opponents head.
    It's great.

    You should try marvel

    He should.
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  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 724
    edited November 10
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 10,318
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    Yea marvel isn't for everyone. Just with what you are lacking in 5, infinite does it better than any fg I've ever played. Im not a lab rat by any means and I spends hours in training working on stone/team synergy. The most open ended fighter I've played.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "I'll be honest, I don't know why you hang out in Nintendo threads. You seem to hate everything they do." - Po Pimpus
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 724
    Might give it a shot over the weekend.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce In Makoto I Trust Joined: Posts: 3,290
    Capcom needs to lower the input lag even more. After that we can talk about everything else.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    I realy have a super serious question to you.

    How much worth had those Combos?

    What have you seen 90% of the time in every match? People go for the most effective combos, that give them the highest reward for the lowest effort.
    Especialy in enviormeants, with inconsistent matches, aka Frame Delay.

    Never understood any fascination for stuff that has no use in a match.
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  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce In Makoto I Trust Joined: Posts: 3,290
    Cipher wrote: »
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    I realy have a super serious question to you.

    How much worth had those Combos?

    What have you seen 90% of the time in every match? People go for the most effective combos, that give them the highest reward for the lowest effort.
    Especialy in enviormeants, with inconsistent matches, aka Frame Delay.

    Never understood any fascination for stuff that has no use in a match.

    That's the SF4 generation, where doing extra-long combos is more important than a short and better one because ain't swag enough. People felt gdlk in doing 1f combos even if they were unworthy most of the time. Now explain to them that's not SF is kinda hard.
  • Paradise1955Paradise1955 Joined: Posts: 634
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    There’s plenty of stuff to lab outside of combos.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »

    That's the SF4 generation, where doing extra-long combos is more important than a short and better one because ain't swag enough. People felt gdlk in doing 1f combos even if they were unworthy most of the time. Now explain to them that's not SF is kinda hard.

    Isn't that the problem with all recent FG's?

    I also would like to know now what they exactly mean with stubby normals.
    I have the feeling people throw terms around since the beginning and don't go in to deep.

    I doubt they talk about the lack of range.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,905
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    I realy have a super serious question to you.

    How much worth had those Combos?

    What have you seen 90% of the time in every match? People go for the most effective combos, that give them the highest reward for the lowest effort.
    Especialy in enviormeants, with inconsistent matches, aka Frame Delay.

    Never understood any fascination for stuff that has no use in a match.

    That's the SF4 generation, where doing extra-long combos is more important than a short and better one because ain't swag enough. People felt gdlk in doing 1f combos even if they were unworthy most of the time. Now explain to them that's not SF is kinda hard.

    Sf4 was a great game. It has its faults, but it came closest to replicating the feel of sf2 aka the biggest fighting game there ever was.

    People complained about sf2 as well, but that don’t make em right.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    Dime wrote: »

    Sf4 was a great game.

    No.

    We must have played 2 different SF2 if you think SFIV replicated the feel in any way.
    It did the exact opposit, it humanilated it, stomped it with it's heel, laughed at it and burned the leftovers.

    Alpha3 was closer to SF2 than SFIV could ever get.
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  • DaemosDaemos Survival of the Strong Joined: Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Dime wrote: »
    NCK_Feroce wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »
    Danonino wrote: »
    But you had the option to experiment and create those combos. Doesn’t mean you had to use them.

    I get what your saying. I really do, but the lack of depth is something I miss in V. Not being able to discover things or experiment. If that makes sense.

    Marvel and me don’t mix, never has.

    I realy have a super serious question to you.

    How much worth had those Combos?

    What have you seen 90% of the time in every match? People go for the most effective combos, that give them the highest reward for the lowest effort.
    Especialy in enviormeants, with inconsistent matches, aka Frame Delay.

    Never understood any fascination for stuff that has no use in a match.

    That's the SF4 generation, where doing extra-long combos is more important than a short and better one because ain't swag enough. People felt gdlk in doing 1f combos even if they were unworthy most of the time. Now explain to them that's not SF is kinda hard.

    Sf4 was a great game. It has its faults, but it came closest to replicating the feel of sf2 aka the biggest fighting game there ever was.

    In a cultural sense yes, SF4 was the SF2 of the 21st century and one could argue single handedly showed that fighting games can be relevant again in the modern era, reviving and revitalizing the genre. SF4 also swept up an entire new generation of FG players off their feet many of whom are still with us today. For these things, I am forever grateful for SF4 and will honor that contribution.

    Gameplay-wise, it couldn't be further from SF2.

    SF5 is the first SF (and fighting) game I've played since CvS2 that comes remotely close to capturing the SF gameplay I grew up with.
    I FEEL IT WITHIN MY BODY!
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES OFFICIALLY THE WORST PLAYER ON SRK LEAGUE: BRONZE LP: 200 Joined: Posts: 9,801
    IM SICK OF THESE FORWARD MOVING SPECIALS THAT HIT LOW IM FUCKING SICK OF IT SICK OF THESE FUCKING MOVES AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,905
    I don’t th8n’ any of you ever played sf2. There’s almost no commitment to specials and there is practically no need for hitconfirms. The damage is closer to sf4 than 5 the anti airs are better, etc etc, the list goes on and on and on.

    Sf5 feels more like 3s, sf4 feels more like sf2.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    You can die in SF2 in 2-3 hits.
    it takes allmost 20 to kill someone in IV.

    V's damage is closer to 2.

    Hitconfirms in SF2 are not needed, because basicly everyone got some special they can throw at you even on block and still stay safe.
    This has been part of the series since SF2 and is present in every god damn SF game.
    No commitmeant specials are also a thing in every game in the series, nothing specials here again.

    SFIV anti-airs are, meh to be precise.
    A lot of characters have either bad or unreliabel anti-airs, there are a lot of characters with jump-ins that will outright beat anything that isn't a DP.
    Some characters best option against air attacks is just focus backdash.
    I wouldn't consider this good across the board, unless you're one of these people who says the anti-airs are good cause you can FADC DPs, something only a handfull of characters got rewarded for anyways.
    Also Yun is Top Tier and he hangs basicly 80% of the time in the air.

    SFIV isn't close to SF2 not in the gameplay departmeant, I might give you a point for them trying to recreate SF2.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,905
    Cipher wrote: »
    You can die in SF2 in 2-3 hits.
    it takes allmost 20 to kill someone in IV.

    V's damage is closer to 2.

    Hitconfirms in SF2 are not needed, because basicly everyone got some special they can throw at you even on block and still stay safe.
    This has been part of the series since SF2 and is present in every god damn SF game.
    No commitmeant specials are also a thing in every game in the series, nothing specials here again.

    SFIV anti-airs are, meh to be precise.
    A lot of characters have either bad or unreliabel anti-airs, there are a lot of characters with jump-ins that will outright beat anything that isn't a DP.
    Some characters best option against air attacks is just focus backdash.
    I wouldn't consider this good across the board, unless you're one of these people who says the anti-airs are good cause you can FADC DPs, something only a handfull of characters got rewarded for anyways.
    Also Yun is Top Tier and he hangs basicly 80% of the time in the air.

    SFIV isn't close to SF2 not in the gameplay departmeant, I might give you a point for them trying to recreate SF2.

    Pretty much none of this is right... but you do you. I can kill someone generally in sf4 in 3 touches. The game was designed around 3 combo kills. Of course that won’t always play out... but yeah.

    Ibuki BnB is like 330 damage or so.

    In sf5 the combos do at most around 450with super and average around 150 or 200 damage.

    The rest of your points... make my point.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,866
    The average BnB in SFIV does around 230 damage in a game were 1000 health is average.
    You die in SF2 with 3 heavys, one combo leads usulay into stun, what leads to the next Combo which usualy kills.
    IV was branded as a low damage game for a reason and exceptions like E.Ryu were, well exceptions.
    The fact that most combos were started out with 3-4 jabs what scaled the damage a lot doesn't help either.

    Lots of characters had weak or terrible anti-airs in IV, just because some had good ones doesn't mean the game was full of good ones.
    IV also had a lot of stuff that made anti-airing dangerous, especialy if you did not have a DP, what most of the cast lacked.

    Also most of your points say, that stuff from SF2 carried over into other SF games.
    Most things you say aren't even specific to SFIV, since they were in other games before already.

    You basicly just said that IV has traits other SF games also have.
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  • ZioSerpeZioSerpe Fueled by nostalgia Joined: Posts: 1,273
    You can say SFIV was good as much as you want, I'm not buying it, the game was too damn ugly and honestly, the way damage went was pretty damn weird, I have made a solid effort to watch Hype SFIV videos on youtube and I just can't get into it.
    I will always like Zero series more, I will always like 3S more, I will always like SFV more and I will always like pretty much any KoF ever more.
    CFN - ZioSerpe
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  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 499

    ZioSerpe wrote: »
    You can say SFIV was good as much as you want, I'm not buying it, the game was too damn ugly and honestly, the way damage went was pretty damn weird, I have made a solid effort to watch Hype SFIV videos on youtube and I just can't get into it.
    I will always like Zero series more, I will always like 3S more, I will always like SFV more and I will always like pretty much any KoF ever more.

    Poke and run is boring. SFIV actually could do big combos off of frame traps/setups.
    SFIV has more variety than V. This is a fact that can not be disputed.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,572
    edited November 19
    If you uninstall the game which I've once done, you lose all the visual indicators on what survival modes etc. you've cleared.

    So please keep all the information stored on the server and sent back to the player so we don't lose the little indicator flags of victory on survival modes, trials, etc......
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,905
    Improvement that will never happen but I would love:

    Non cancelable low mediums are at +0 on block.

    I personally would like it if even cancelable lows were like +1

    As it is right now, walking backwards out of stagger pressure and frame traps is a bit too braindead.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • javertjavert 'sup Joined: Posts: 1,240
    Do you guys believe it is necessary for a neutral jump to both escape and full damage punish a command grab?

    With the amount of nerfs that have been piling up on grapplers in every game, it has become more likely for a pathogen to escape a class IV biosafety lab than for a grappler to be good in SF. Today, we are on the point that whiffing is so fucking long it is possible to backdash then walk in and punish.

    The way I see it, whiff recovery on command grabs could be shortened to 36f as it was in older games so even if the opponent neutral jumped and you whiffed you should be able to block or even antiair with some characters. What would be broken if you could st. lp the neutral jump? There's always jump back when close so escape by jump is still an option and jump forward may get you an AA jab but that's fair if you let the grappler corner you.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,905
    edited November 21
    javert wrote: »
    Do you guys believe it is necessary for a neutral jump to both escape and full damage punish a command grab?

    With the amount of nerfs that have been piling up on grapplers in every game, it has become more likely for a pathogen to escape a class IV biosafety lab than for a grappler to be good in SF. Today, we are on the point that whiffing is so fucking long it is possible to backdash then walk in and punish.

    The way I see it, whiff recovery on command grabs could be shortened to 36f as it was in older games so even if the opponent neutral jumped and you whiffed you should be able to block or even antiair with some characters. What would be broken if you could st. lp the neutral jump? There's always jump back when close so escape by jump is still an option and jump forward may get you an AA jab but that's fair if you let the grappler corner you.

    Command grabs are already strong in sf5 because most command grab characters have strong mobility tools and a plethora of ways to mess you up for trying to neutral jump a command grab.

    What you are basically asking for is a little to no risk command grab... that doesn’t really make sense at all.

    Me personally i don’t like the way command grabs work in this game. I’d rather they all have more range, but suffer from reduced damage, so like as an example:

    H command grab does 150 damage, can be done after one blocked jab, has the worst followup oki, is the safest on wiff, has the fastest startup at 5 frames.
    M command grab does 130 damage, can be done after 2 blocked jabs, has 6 frame startup.
    L command grab does 100 damage, can be done after 3 blocked jabs, best oki, most unsafe on wiff, 7 frame startup.

    Ex command grab can go one of 3 ways:

    H command grab damage and range, L command grab oki opportunities, L command grab lack of safety.

    Or L command grab damage range and oki, but with H command grab safety and startup.

    Or 220 damage, L command grab range, H command grab followups, H command grab unsafety. This would be a “real” oldschool style command grab with huge range and damage but no real followup ability and very unsafe as well.


    That’s a good way to balance out command grabs. The lowest damage version gives the best oki options has the most range but is the most unsafe and the slowest, the highest damage version gives the worst oki options but is the safest to try for.

    This is good balance because it falls in line with sf5 rules:

    Closer is stronger, but stronger tends to have the worst followups. Farther is weaker but weaker tends to have better followups.

    Example from non sf5 game = T.hawk.

    The way gief is designed is pretty dumb because there is little reason to ever use anything besides H and ex command grab because H command grab has the combination of both the best damage and best followups, you don’t have to choose which to use, and since it sets up for itself very well it can basically be vortexed back into itself.. for high damage. Ex command grab is basically only there for range because it is an H command grab but with range. This makes L and M command grabs nearly useless most of the time.

    Me personally I would try to balance command grab characters around these types of parameters, it’s probably not possible in sf5 because the characters are already balanced with regards to neutral, to a large extent and doing something radical like what I said would mean the characters neutral movesets having to be tweaked quite a bit.

    But command grab characters as they are now seem pretty fine as far as strength goes. Fireballs were toned down and so were command grabs. Guile has his BS fireball game neutral but he’s pretty much the only one that can really abuse it. Gief has his command grab vortex, but he’s the only one with such an abuseable vortex.

    Laura has a good mix of strike/throw mixups and trigger to make her command grabs do even more damage and stun. Alex has the worst overall command grab game, but he has string movement options and pokes, his problem is spotty AA and slow foot speed, a buff to either his walkspeed or his AA is all that he really needs.

    Vega is super fast with a command grab. No need for any buffs to his command grab game.

    Necalli is a hybrid that just happens to have a command grab.

    Mika has some of the best command grab/strike mixups in the game and good post command grab followups in the corner, she’s tough to balance because of this fact. If her vortex were neutered in some way I could see that leaving room to make her neutral better, which might make her a more stable character, but that would basically just turn her into a female version of a buffed Alex.

    Necalli and Laura are both considered in the higher tier of characters so command grab characters as a whole don’t see to be fairing badly, only 1 heavy zoner seems to be considered top tier as an example.

    The best characters in the game are the ones that play sf5 the best:

    Anti zoners with strong upclose stagger pressure options and big damage, slightly nerf their antizoning moves and their stagger pressure by making their anti fireball moves have 2-4 more frames of projectile invincibility startup, and their plus on block stagger moves knock back slightly more and you probably have a very balanced cast outside of guile and sim who might need some slight extra recovery frames on their ranged pokes.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce In Makoto I Trust Joined: Posts: 3,290
    Cmd grabs are helluva strong in SFV. The Crush Counter mechanic indirectly buff them because blocking becomes a reliable option when in range, which is half wrong. Because of that I've seen players jumping back more often trying to avoid cmd grabs and CC's also,wasting time and range for a proper punish. Outside the amazing damage of 'em, we need to consider how easier for a grappler getting closer in this game. I mean, Gief vs Sim isn't loopsided anymore, nuff said.
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