Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

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  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 490
    Cipher wrote: »
    Touchdown wrote: »
    Did the versatility of close normal's blow up your crouch tech?
    Or you struggled with the combos?
    Or did someone message you bad things...

    Hahahahahahahahahha

    And here we have a prime example of the people still playing SFIV.

    MOBA level of incompetence.

    You idiot didn't even read the whole text, CVS2 requires more of everything than IV does. CVS doesn't hold your hand, IV does.
    You can argure V does as well, but I rather deal with CC spammers, than OS city.

    OS are not a factor IF you aren't a player always trying to escape/reversal on wake up.
    OS crouch tech still can be blown up with traps.
    In other words OS is situational. If you keep getting OS, then stop doing things where they work on you!
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • PhinxPhinx Joined: Posts: 113
    edited April 19
    Cipher wrote: »
    Phinx wrote: »

    Cipher. You do realize both SFV and IV are in the OS city? A meaty hard will CC all buttons, dashes, techs, many can anti air, recover fast enough to guard or throw v-reversal, will be + frames. That's like the ultimate offensive OS. Same could be said about meaty throws/command throws and how many things they deal with.

    You compare an OS to a meaty.
    No worse, you say a meaty is an OS.

    You should probably read a lexicon and learn what the term means.

    A OS is something like this :

    image

    It's simple explained. Rose presses cr.lp and cr.hk at the same time, now the game decides what input is the correct one for the situation.
    If Chun backdashs the sweep comes out, if she blocks Rose cr.lp comes out and she can continue her blockstring. Thats a basic OS.

    If you do a Fierce Metay, it's a Fierce Meaty, there is nothing else behind it, you may delay your button press to bait a DP, but thats no OS either.
    You don't press 5 buttons at the same time at the opponents wakeup and the game decides what is the correct button for you at this situation.

    My point is it's 'like' an OS. Except it doesn't differentiate inputs depending on the situation. It's much better though, since it's a simpler input and tackles more things.

    You press a button - cc'ed, tech - cc'ed, jump - AA, back dash - CC'ed, armor move (outside of Birdie CC'ed,) v-reversal ( you need to input the next move yourself,) you block? + frames, you have to block or be ready to tech/jump etc. The end result is the same.

    You're complaining about something that 'holds your hand (despite some os being incredibly hard to pull off)' and tackles multiple situations. Well now you just press one button to tackle so many things that you just have to 'take it' now.
    Post edited by Phinx on
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    Dime_x wrote: »

    I don't normally disagree with you, but you play cammy who is high tier, her BMP is one of the best if not the best AA in the game, and she has tons of pressure with her normals and walkspeed alone, plus her v trigger is like a free super every round, or free jumpins.

    Not saying you or anyone else should feel bad about using cammy or that there isn't skill to her, since there is a lot of skill in the character, but this "you don't need a top tier" is BS. I play urien chun Laura and chun is harder to win with than urien or Laura. Laura has a command grab to scare people and get free damage on reads, urien has a seriously nice v trigger and big normals. Chun has pokes and low damage and very little pressure.

    Abare means different things in different fighting games.

    In old school Japan it meant "he who attacks from disadvantage" and was colloquially used to refer to mashers, but was also about players that would attack when it wasn't their turn as far as frame advantage. So as an example, cammy does a regular divekick that gets blocked and she's at disadvantage, but instead of taking the pressure of a blocked move from the opponent she reversals and tries to take her turn back... that's a textbook example of abare for streetfighter. Other examples are players like rashid doing L mixer on block at -2 and still attacking afterwards hopin their opponent pressed their button to slowly.


    The other primary term for abare refers to marvel or anime games and it is basically a term to refer to a characters ability to turn random hits into full combos.

    The better a characters abare, the better they "tend" to be.

    Everything Cammy has is literaly a anti-air. CC st.hk DP CA does like 500 damage, just because you jumped on her.
    People keep jumping regardless of what you do, at least it's like this online.
    I seriously hit that thing in a match twice and the next thing they did was jump-in again.
    I had matches in IV where all I did was DP and they keeped jumping.

    This is alone my point of experience here, I've experienced that people keep jumping like Super Mario, regardles of how often you hit them out of the air. The rank is pointless in that account, thats the case from Ultra-Silver - Super Diamond.

    Also I play her in every game she was, same with my other characters. I usualy don't drop chars, but only add some more.
    You can see that on my KoF cast, allthough I only have 3 in my signature, I play like 10 chars.
    I never saw the need for a TopTier in the end and I still don't get the mentality that you "need" one.

    So abare means basicly you try to force your turn again in SF. It's the first time I hear that term, but I know the meaning for it at least.
    Phinx wrote: »

    My point is it's 'like' an OS. Except it doesn't differentiate inputs depending on the situation. It's much better though, since it's a simpler input and tackles more things.

    You press a button - cc'ed, tech - cc'ed, jump - AA, back dash - CC'ed, armor move (outside of Birdie CC'ed,) v-reversal (can be countered although you need to input the move in yourself,) you block? + frames, you have to block or be ready to tech/jump etc. The end result is the same; Hence why I said the ultimate...

    Some OS's are incredibly hard.

    It's not like an OS, because it is non, it has not even similaritys with OS. I posted what a simple OS is and you still insist that you're not wrong.
    Jeez, you're trying to sell me fucking pokes and meatys as OS.

    I know you try very hard to make SFV look bad, but this is getting dumb at this point.
    Touchdown wrote: »

    OS are not a factor IF you aren't a player always trying to escape/reversal on wake up.
    OS crouch tech still can be blown up with traps.
    In other words OS is situational. If you keep getting OS, then stop doing things where they work on you!

    You realise that my problem is, that I had to use them?
    It's allmost neccesary to OS on wakeups if you fight Rose,Chun-Li or Poison in SFIV, because of how good the backdash is as an option on wakeup.
    It feels dumb if you let the game decide for you what is the right thing in this situation.
    And I'm glad I no longer have to rely on this shit to run offence.
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,457
    I'm past my Cammy hate now. I just hope she doesn't get the same meterless reversals that the shotos do in season 2.5.

    Anyways, her walk speed is possibly the strongest thing about her, and it's actually really annoying when she does her forward throw in the corner and holds forward and takes about 110 steps, before doing her meaty attack.

    Chunli's jumping light punch beats Cammy's b.mp, but I don't think any of Ryu's can do the same.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    Cammy and Juri both get the DP changes the shotos get, now cry me a river pls.
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 490
    edited April 20
    Cipher wrote: »
    You realise that my problem is, that I had to use them?
    It's allmost neccesary to OS on wakeups if you fight Rose,Chun-Li or Poison in SFIV, because of how good the backdash is as an option on wakeup.
    It feels dumb if you let the game decide for you what is the right thing in this situation.
    And I'm glad I no longer have to rely on this shit to run offence.
    You wouldn't have to OS if you actually READ what they do on wake up. Instead of guessing they are going to back dash.
    Again, that's on players, depending on the gimmick instead of themselves.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    Why should I do a READ, if I can just let the game cover all options at once for me?
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,028
    edited April 20
    Touchdown wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »
    You realise that my problem is, that I had to use them?
    It's allmost neccesary to OS on wakeups if you fight Rose,Chun-Li or Poison in SFIV, because of how good the backdash is as an option on wakeup.
    It feels dumb if you let the game decide for you what is the right thing in this situation.
    And I'm glad I no longer have to rely on this shit to run offence.
    You wouldn't have to OS if you actually READ what they do on wake up. Instead of guessing they are going to back dash.
    Again, that's on players, depending on the gimmick instead of themselves.

    if you think osing is a gimmick I don't really know what to say. No! I guess.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • PhinxPhinx Joined: Posts: 113
    edited April 20
    Cipher wrote: »

    It's not like an OS, because it is non, it has not even similaritys with OS. I posted what a simple OS is and you still insist that you're not wrong.
    Jeez, you're trying to sell me fucking pokes and meatys as OS.

    I know you try very hard to make SFV look bad, but this is getting dumb at this point.



    No you don't understand. The basis of option select is it chooses the best option (different moves) based on the inputs involved to 'cover multiple options'. Meaty allows 1 input to 'cover multiple options' and becomes the best option. End result is similar. You covered multiple options.

    The difference is one chooses the input, the other allows 1 input to cover a plethora of things. It doesn't need multiple inputs (different moves,) has less counter play, covers a lot more things. It's works differently, but does something similar. What is the point of an OS if I'm wrong?

    I'm still waiting for you to show how all these pros agree with your opinion of V being perfect. The best you can find is accept and adapt. V will never touch ST, Alpha, 3 & 4.
  • Dime_xDime_x Wasting time Joined: Posts: 9,231
    Phinx wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »

    It's not like an OS, because it is non, it has not even similaritys with OS. I posted what a simple OS is and you still insist that you're not wrong.
    Jeez, you're trying to sell me fucking pokes and meatys as OS.

    I know you try very hard to make SFV look bad, but this is getting dumb at this point.



    No you don't understand. The basis of option select is it chooses the best option (different moves) based on the inputs involved to 'cover multiple options'. Meaty allows 1 input to 'cover multiple options' and becomes the best option. One chooses the input, the other allows 1 input to cover a plethora of things. End result is similar. You covered multiple options.

    The difference is it doesn't need multiple inputs, has less counter play, covers a lot more things. It's not the same but it does something similar. What is the point of an OS if I'm wrong?

    I'm still waiting for you to show how all these pros agree with your opinion of V being perfect. The best you can find is accept and adapt. V will never touch ST, Alpha, 3 & 4.


    What you are talking about isn't an option select, it's an option coverage. Option selects are where 2 different things occur via one input with the game deciding what comes out depending on the state of the game.

    In your example you are doing one move... that is still that same move no matter what.

    It's not semantics, it just is what it is, option select isn't a term for covering multiple options it's a term for when the game chooses your move for you.

    And yes, option coverages of various sorts are what fighting games are all about. Like a reversal. It covers throws, it covers strikes, it covers highs and lows, some even cover left and rights.

    But remember, if it isn't 2 different moves that can come out you are talking about option coverage.

    Another easy example of an option coverage? Backdash. If your opponent blocks, thinking you were going to reversal... your backdash covers it and gains you space. If they went for a throw though, your backdash is throw invincible so it still wins.

    That's option coverage and almost everything in the game covers more than one option when used in optimal situations. One of the hallmarks of "good defense" is knowing what option to use against your opponents expected offensive mixup that covers 2 3 or even more options, and likewise as an attacker you will be trying to pick offensive options that cover more than one of your opponents defensive options.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    edited April 20
    Phinx wrote: »

    No you don't understand. The basis of option select is it chooses the best option (different moves) based on the inputs involved to 'cover multiple options'. Meaty allows 1 input to 'cover multiple options' and becomes the best option. End result is similar. You covered multiple options.

    The difference is one chooses the input, the other allows 1 input to cover a plethora of things. It doesn't need multiple inputs (different moves,) has less counter play, covers a lot more things. It's works differently, but does something similar. What is the point of an OS if I'm wrong?

    I'm still waiting for you to show how all these pros agree with your opinion of V being perfect. The best you can find is accept and adapt. V will never touch ST, Alpha, 3 & 4.

    I told you on Steam already to shut up and stop to put worths into my mouth.

    You still don't know what and Option Select is, luckly Dime explained it for you, so you will hopefully understand now that your definition is wrong and you're wrong.

    The difference between you and me, that I don't try to convince people to like V, I tell them that what they think is flawed isn't what is the problem.
    Neither do I think SFV is perfect, but you're to stubborn to see this, because you think your opinion that V sucks has to count for everyone.

    Do you see me here or on Steam beeing 24/7 telling people how much I hate SF3 and that noone should play this game with all it's flawed mechanics, it's lack of a neutral, it's absence of any zoning, it's BS character or it's horrible balancing.
    Thats the difference between us, you do this and I just tell everyone that the problems they think are problems aren't problems.

    You don't even have an own opinion about the game, all you do is complain, quote some twitter comments (not even all, just the negative ones, because everyone who likes V is a scrub and doesn't deserve to be taken serious) and act superior, while you don't even know what some basic shit like an option select is.
    Hey an OS is a meaty! A FG fundamental thats around since fucking WW is a OS! Tell that Daigo and Alex Valle, with some luck they will just laugh themself to death and not die on a heart attack instead.

    I know what V's problems are and how to fix them, I said that like 20 pages ago, I had a thread on Steam were I addresed this.
    I don't see the need to constantly repeat myself, unlike you who still trys to tell people on Steam SFV developed Vortex and Setplay, something that wasn't there in previous SF games.

    Keep writing your shit, you have no clue about me you lizard brained imbecile.

    EDIT:
    That literally happens to every Capcom game. People didn't immediately love SF4 or MvC3. Both of those games were mainly played by newcomers. Notice that a lot of 3S and CvS2 players didn't play SF4. Notice how MvC3 wasn't played by MvC2 players. No one cared about what players like Nuki and MOV thought about SF4. We cared about what Sanford thought about MvC3 for about 5 minutes but that's about it. The difference between SF5 and those games is time. Those games came out years after the height of their predecessor. But SF5 came out a year after the peak of SF4 and we expected SF5 to start off where SF5 left off. That was never going to happen since they're completely different games. Now we have a bunch of sponsored players who were sponsored for playing a different game. There are very few players who are sponsored for SF5. So these insights on the game are coming from SF4 players who just happen to be good at SF5.

    The same thing will likely happen to MvCI. The sponsored MvC3 players aren't going to like it but they'll play it. They will use their platform to complain about it. And everyone will back them and say MvCI sucks. The same thing happened with SFxT but people had other games to fall back on in that situation. MvC and SF players don't have that right now so they will play new ones anyway.

    Just to let you know, History repeats itself.
    Post edited by Cipher on
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • Flacko_aliFlacko_ali Joined: Posts: 189
    Only one CC button for each character...
  • VhoziteVhozite The King of Hearts Joined: Posts: 1,991
    edited April 20
    I wish there was some way to implement a hard knockdown that doesn't involve the opponent just laying on the ground for a few seconds. I like the reward and oki you get so I'm not against the mechanically speaking. But from a purely visual perspective it looks so idiotic. It seriously kills the pace of the game.

    Even just some sort of "writhing in pain on the ground" animation so it flows better.
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 490
    edited April 20
    Cipher wrote: »
    Why should I do a READ, if I can just let the game cover all options at once for me?
    So you can grow as a player and be truly safe.
    Veserius wrote: »
    if you think osing is a gimmick I don't really know what to say. No! I guess.
    Because it is not an automatic win in situations.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    Flacko_ali wrote: »
    Only one CC button for each character...

    No thats not the fix.
    To fix CC you have to balance them right.
    Ryus and Cammys st.hk are an example for a good CC.

    They miss croucher, they're slightly -, to discourage spamming and they fucking hurt if the CC comes as AA. They still do their Job in punishing this counterstate moves.
    Thats the easiest way to balance the CC's right. Someone like Bison is allowed to have a +3 st.hk that CCs, because his walkspeed is ass, what makes it harder to use effectively.
    These are balanced CC's, not something like Uriens st.hp what he can throw out in the neutral like Candy and gets a full Combo off of a hit.
    Touchdown wrote: »
    So you can grow as a player and be truly safe.

    I'm also truly safe using the OS.
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • Mr_BladeMr_Blade Joined: Posts: 149
    I just want DP's reverted back to season one. Able to level up offline. Even if it takes longer. CPU vs CPU in versus mode. Lastly an Arcade Mode.
    Zarina, Kolin, Juri, Vanessa

    SFV Future Hopefuls: Ruby, Ingrid, Vivian Nishiki

    My Blog:http://darkonyxe.blogspot.com/
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 490
    edited April 24
    Cipher wrote: »
    I'm also truly safe using the OS.
    No you're not. It takes skilled timing to use OS.
    It only works on evaders on wake up.
    Not on someone who knows how to block.
    Post edited by Touchdown on
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
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