Improvements or changes you would like to see in SFV

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  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,893
    *caugh*
    I want:

    - Bugfixes and fixes in general. Rematch bug,Sound bugs, no flags in battlelounges are shown till you join one,clipping,D-Input,language change,odd framedrops. All these small things.

    - Ingame newsletter

    - Harder RQ punishmeant

    - The input lag

    - More trainings options! Option to safe the settings. Ingame framedata,ingame hitbox viewer,all these things. I know it's probably not in the game duo to the early release,but I want it.

    - Online training. Probably the best feature that USFIV implented. Should be back asap.

    - Build in Twitch Stream
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose
    Tekken: When's Jun? , Asuka
    Guilty Gear: Ramlethal, Jack-O

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • vitalvital Joined: Posts: 324
    vital wrote: »
    I think 200k is too much for a character as well

    No, it isn't. Considering other games like LoL, where characters can cost 6300 IP, and that takes an eternity to get too in contrast to what we're having to deal with today for SF:V. 200k is Far and Above More Lenient, not to mention the cost to just simply buying them which is a steal when you once again take into consideration what other gaming genres get away with when selling things.

    Are you on Capcom's payroll or what
  • S_KelsonS_Kelson Joined: Posts: 143
    edited June 2016
    While I wouldn't call it a "steal" by any means, I do think people who play regularly will be able to afford DLC characters with their in game points. I have a season pass, but would've been able to get Alex/Guile without it honestly. I don't think League is a very good comparison though (free game with characters coming out constantly, all their money comes from optional purchases anyway)

    The game's biggest issue is input lag imo. I agree I'd like to see online training
    3S- Oro, some Q
    USFIV- Gen, Rufus
    SFV- Karin
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 2016
    vital wrote: »
    Are you on Capcom's payroll or what

    No, I've just been around other genres enough to definitively say that fighting games have been the Most Lenient and Modest when it comes to things like DLC cost or how to obtain items in contrast to other games. Once again, an average of playing on this game, you can earn money far more leniently than in most other genres, and if you started out with the game, you can earn well over 500k+ (that's being modest) already which gives you direct access to two characters within a short period.

    In a game such as LoL, I could clock in 8+ hours and depending upon if I win or lose in games that last 20+ mins, I will only earn a few hundred points total within that span, and to grab a character that cost 6300, it could take weeks.

    Again, it's just one such example, however Capcom has to make it hard enough so that those who don't want too, are willing to fork over the money, plus $4 for a character purchase is an incredibly low price within the gaming world. Most purchases for $4 in other genres will Never Net you anything that valuable, let alone being able to purchase a Character for that price. Be Happy it isn't worse.

    Post edited by TrueSephiroth on
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,711
    Capcom where are my dailies?
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,256
    RoGE9 wrote: »
    Capcom where are my dailies?

    Gon b dere soon according to last announcement
    [SFV] Laura (Sakura, Cody?) [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Thanos and something else
  • GaruGaru Wanna play with me? Joined: Posts: 514
    Tauntings should get rewarding with meter gain.
    SFV: Karin and Juri
    USF4: Juri, E.Ryu and Cammy
    KoFXIV: Kyo, Angel and Kula
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,938
    edited June 2016
    Random idea:

    A good way to mix Pre-3 throw mechanics with 3-4-5 mechanics would be something like:

    1. If you tech within a short period of time (say 3 frames) you get a throw break like how we currently have it.
    2. if you delay tech, you get thrown the same way you would in ST if you tech a throw.
    3. If you dont tech, the damage should be pretty high like in st. like 300 dmg

    if they fix the neutral and add this in, the game would be a good mix of ST and 3. But if they dont fix the neutral I wouldnt want this.

    Also, remove backroll.

    Not that I actually think they would ever do this.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • GamogoGamogo Common sense isn't. Joined: Posts: 2,956
    edited June 2016
    Random idea:

    A good way to mix Pre-3 throw mechanics with 3-4-5 mechanics would be something like:

    1. If you tech within a short period of time (say 3 frames) you get a throw break like how we currently have it.
    2. if you delay tech, you get thrown the same way you would in ST if you tech a throw.
    3. If you dont tech, the damage should be pretty high like in st. like 300 dmg

    Interesting idea, but it's perhaps over-complicating an aspect of gameplay that should remain singular. Though at the same time, you could argue the variability in techable wake-up options to be similar (delay, backroll, fast) so far as options are concerned.

    I quite like the delay tech idea - it would double as a salt dissolving agent for those who are perhaps weak at teching (i.e. claims of "I teched that!" and so on) - they'd get their tech to an extent, but it would be softened. Though, you would then begin to question just how often folks would ever get to land a successful throw - especially at high levels.

    I like SFV's throw game. In particular how teching combined with actual landed throws don't invoke the stilted momentum we saw in SFIV. In IV gameplay all but stopped when you teched, and a landed throw saw odd gameplay/action stalls due to how long hard knockdown states lasted. I do have a soft spot for ST's tech system though - that probably remains my favourite of all. I found it interesting how ST's tech style placed a new emphasis on characters with holds. It was a huge bummer for me when holds shifted into pre-determined hit counts effectively rendering them throws and nothing more in subsequent games. The memories of opponents thrashing the shit out of sticks and buttons to shake out of holds was always hilarious to me - it was almost like delivering a physical blow to whom you were playing.

    Anybody else remember the CPU go to town on your health when you ate a hold? CPU Blanka in SF2 was a fucking riot sometimes.
    Guacamole is awesome.
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,938
    edited June 2016
    The reason I suggested the idea is because being on defense should basically be suicide. I think all of the work of a fighting game player should be about winning the neutral. If you win, you should be really rewarded for it. But at the same time, Im emphasizing the word "basically." You should be able to get out, but it shouldnt be easy.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • GamogoGamogo Common sense isn't. Joined: Posts: 2,956
    if you live and die by neutral youll not play like an idiot.

    This is actually pretty accurate!

    Guacamole is awesome.
  • vitalvital Joined: Posts: 324
    vital wrote: »
    Are you on Capcom's payroll or what

    No, I've just been around other genres enough to definitively say that fighting games have been the Most Lenient and Modest when it comes to things like DLC cost or how to obtain items in contrast to other games. Once again, an average of playing on this game, you can earn money far more leniently than in most other genres, and if you started out with the game, you can earn well over 500k+ (that's being modest) already which gives you direct access to two characters within a short period.

    In a game such as LoL, I could clock in 8+ hours and depending upon if I win or lose in games that last 20+ mins, I will only earn a few hundred points total within that span, and to grab a character that cost 6300, it could take weeks.

    Again, it's just one such example, however Capcom has to make it hard enough so that those who don't want too, are willing to fork over the money, plus $4 for a character purchase is an incredibly low price within the gaming world. Most purchases for $4 in other genres will Never Net you anything that valuable, let alone being able to purchase a Character for that price. Be Happy it isn't worse.

    Sounds like that League of Legends model is just completely busted

    This stuff is super consumer unfriendly in general so not sure why you're advocating so hard on the behalf of alternate unlock systems that are completely unrealistic
  • crash_and_burncrash_and_burn We live inside a dream ... Joined: Posts: 3,031
    The reason I suggested the idea is because being on defense should basically be suicide. I think all of the work of a fighting game player should be about winning the neutral. If you win, you should be really rewarded for it. But at the same time, Im emphasizing the word "basically." You should be able to get out, but it shouldnt be easy.

    How wide should the stages really be? Lol
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,010 mod
    I may be the retarded one here but characters aren't even 200K, they're fucking 100K lmao
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    The reason I suggested the idea is because being on defense should basically be suicide. I think all of the work of a fighting game player should be about winning the neutral. If you win, you should be really rewarded for it. But at the same time, Im emphasizing the word "basically." You should be able to get out, but it shouldnt be easy.

    This so much. This is what I've been saying for years. Getting in against a GOOD opponent is no easy feat. And therefor the reward for getting in should be high. It should be HARD to not get damaged once an opponent gets in.

    As it is now, you can just easily tech out...and that can be beaten with shimmy, but that can be beaten with jab, but that can be beaten with frame trap, but that cane be beaten with block... Which brings us back to throw... But that can be beaten with backdash, or walking backwards or jumping, or reversal.


    In sf5 it feels like my odds of doing damage to my opponent actually go down once I get in. The difference is that if I DO get damage, it will be higher than if I were further away.


    With regards to teching window, throw startup, throw damage and throw wiff animation, I don't like sf5 throw system at all. The wiff animation is super fast. The tech window is huge when you account for throw startup frames. Throws are the slowest they've ever been in any streetfighter. Chuns forward throw gives her 120 damage....
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • soncissoncis Joined: Posts: 310
    Im in training mode and set wake up action and recovery action of the NPC then I get a fight request. all the other setting are still there after I won the match and returned to training mode.. except the actions.. but why? Why are these turned off? Plz let them still be there >_> its annoying setting them 10 times...
    3S: Ken
    USF4: Dudley
    SFV: Alex/Ibuki/Urien(?)
  • LockMLockM Joined: Posts: 2,662
    Less pushback on counterhits, great that you get more frameadvantage, however if the pushback is more than normal then some combos will actually whiff.
    For example a meaty combo starter will combo into a certain normal without counterhit, however it will whiff if the meaty normal is counterhit...

    All these little types of things just infuriate me and makes everything inconsistent.
    GGXrdR2: Jam, Baiken
    T7:  Jin
    SFV: Juri
    USFIV: Yun, Cody, Guy





  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,938
    I would like if you could make the player 1 side quick rise etc during a recording
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • mega_bustermega_buster Joined: Posts: 1,168
    I would love a true rekka character and maybe someone that can zone really well although the engine doesnt seem to suit it much
    SF5 Mains:Karin/Chun
    GGXrd Mains:May
  • WikumWikum Joined: Posts: 3,021
    edited June 2016
    What do you guys think about this? -

    If you get thrown out of a V-Reversal, you gain no V gauge.

    Imo this would be a good change.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    My wish list:

    Decrease input delay (duh). I'm actually fairly okay with "normalized" input delay, but 8 frames is way, way too much. Something like 5 would be much better. Further, there needs to be a normalization across equipment.

    Remove jabs as effective anti-airs. I'm generally really happy with how risky jump-ins are, but jab as the end-all AA is so boner deflating.

    Make v-reversals punishable on block (as a rule with maybe a handful of exceptions). I am always impressed when someone reads the v-reversal and baits it. I'm always under impressed at the reward they get (-2 in most cases).

    Buff Rashid :P

    Generally speaking though, I'm pretty damn happy with the state of SFV.
  • soncissoncis Joined: Posts: 310
    Why does everyone wanna remove jab anti air? how is a character like alex supposed to anti air properly? Cr.Hp don't always work well...
    3S: Ken
    USF4: Dudley
    SFV: Alex/Ibuki/Urien(?)
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    Why should a character have 100% anti-air coverage? I think with proper spacing, jumps should be viable. As it stands right now, they mostly aren't except on read or wake-up. The problem with jab is it works too well and too often... enough that it crowds out other AA options. If it were removed, people would adapt, and that includes Alex players.

    I think some of the issue is where you philosophically stand on jump-ins. If you don't think they should ever be viable with a few notable exceptions, then you'll want every character to have a perfect AA. If you believe that given proper spacing and timing, jump-ins should be viable... well then you'll probably want AA jab gone. I just don't think there should be an AA that comes out in 3/4 frames without requiring some kind of motion (which obviously adds frames). There's a reason that characters with DPs are still choosing to jab after all.
  • Half BreedHalf Breed Beast Unleashed Joined: Posts: 142
    Jab anti-airs seem like a band-aid capcom threw in to address a few issues they were too rushed or lazy to fix, and imo stems from their focus on lazy/easy-mode rushdown. Generally speaking if your opponent whifs a poke/normal in footsie range your safest option is to punish without jumping in on them, else you risk getting AAed or they block. However because of the input lag, stubbier normals, lack of combo variations, ect. in SFV jump-in and cross up combos are a lot more viable for most of the cast, especially since this game is built around momentum. Generally speaking pressing jab is a panic reaction from new players, like jumping back and then jumping forward to attack, and my guess is that capcom made this a viable option to allow new players to fight back instead of doing what your generally supposed to do like block, dp/AA normal, or not throw out dumb shit. Now normally this wouldn't be such an issue because eating jab on your jump in is better than a dp, except it changes who has momentum which depending on the chars can mean losing that round, for trying to punish your opponents mistake. The problem is a good player is going to exploit this, and this is what is key to being a good player, why risk doing something that is harder to pull of, is easier to punish, and can potentially lead to a worse situation then simply pressing jab. Instead of asking for capcom to leave in a broken system, maybe Alex players should ask why his jab is better than a special whose sole purpose is to AA, though to be honest he does need it.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    qspec wrote: »
    Why should a character have 100% anti-air coverage? I think with proper spacing, jumps should be viable. As it stands right now, they mostly aren't except on read or wake-up. The problem with jab is it works too well and too often... enough that it crowds out other AA options. If it were removed, people would adapt, and that includes Alex players.

    I think some of the issue is where you philosophically stand on jump-ins. If you don't think they should ever be viable with a few notable exceptions, then you'll want every character to have a perfect AA. If you believe that given proper spacing and timing, jump-ins should be viable... well then you'll probably want AA jab gone. I just don't think there should be an AA that comes out in 3/4 frames without requiring some kind of motion (which obviously adds frames). There's a reason that characters with DPs are still choosing to jab after all.

    You literally don't know how to play streetfighter with thinking like this.

    Here's the thing:

    Jumping is a choice, it's not something you HAVE to do. You also have a choice as to what type of jump you do and from what range you do it at.

    Most characters in sf5 have a way to change their jump arc.

    Jumping is viable in EVERY streetfighter game ever.

    Jumping is EASY and strong. Therefor ANTI AIRS should be easy and strong.

    I jump in with chun against people all day in this game. Jumping is piss poor easy in this game. there's nothing wrong with AA jabs. Jump when your opponent is committed to a ground attack or is overly focused on the ground game. Other than that, stay on the ground... If you don't jump you can't be AA'd
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    Come on, man... don't be that guy.

    Literally everything is a "choice". That's hardly an argument. Fuck, by your own logic, jabs are a choice and easy as shit to do, so...

    Further, you and I have always had decent report, so I'm going to be polite, but you need to reread my post. I'm not opposed to AAs being good. I'd actually prefer other AAs to be more viable (via reduced input latency), but as it stands right now, jabs are *so* good that they literally crowd out virtually every other option. Dive kick? Jab. Cross-up? Jab. Neutral jump? Jab. Regular jump? Jab. IALL? Jab. Why do anything else in this game unless it is a guarantee, because jab sets you up, gives you the momentum, and in many cases gives you a mix-up via cross-up. In a game about pushing the *right* button, there is no real such choice in the AA game. Plus it is, like I said, anti-hype. Buff DPs or AA normals for all I care... but drop lame anti-air jab.

    Plus, you mistake my dislike of jab as a "dude jumps so he must hate AA" which is demonstrably false. Even if it wasn't, it is irrelevant to the conversation. This isn't a "nerf things that hurt me" talk.
  • YunityYunity Joined: Posts: 468
    Whats so wrong with it being so good? 30-40 dmg and if they fuck up the AA they get stomped for 200++ dmg. Jabs are in a good place, as it is a mostly defensive tool that does not lead into redic dmg consistently ala sf4.

    Also why would you want to remove options in the first place?
    Daigo wrote:
    Yun’s awoken to Satsui no Hado. In many ways. Or maybe I should say he couldn’t keep from awakening.”
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    Anti air jab lost to early jump in attack in 3s. Usually the mixup was jab beat empty jump or late jump in attacks but did no damage and lost to early jump ins which usually lead to fat combos.

    Is this similar in 5?
  • YouYou Mediocre Clarinet Player Joined: Posts: 2,355
    edited June 2016
    I've said this before, but I'd gladly give up the "4-frame, insane hitbox s.lk anti air > 50/50" that Chun has for her old, 10 frame flip kick anti air that you could get an air combo off of.
    R6szI9.gif

    Really just any anti airs that leave opponents juggled i'd gladly welcome (yay ibuki).
    Can my anti air please not trade
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    edited June 2016
    IglooBob wrote: »
    Anti air jab lost to early jump in attack in 3s. Usually the mixup was jab beat empty jump or late jump in attacks but did no damage and lost to early jump ins which usually lead to fat combos.

    Is this similar in 5?

    No it's different here. People like spec don't know it, but the ACTUAL reason why AA jabs work so well in this game isn't because of crazy goodness of the jabs themselves, but because the way this game was designed, jumpin attacks have HUGE hurtboxes that extend out before the actual hitboxes.

    In other words, jump attacks have very little priority on the whole in streetfighter 5.


    @qspec


    It's spencer right?

    Look, I came up with world warrior. That game with the SUPER SLOW jumpins and zangiefs and dhalsims anti airs were both st.lp's.


    Know what we did? Didn't fucking jump at those twats that's for sure (unless they were knocked down) we beat them on the ground with footsies, or, we learned what jump attacks worked against those anti airs and wat what spacing and timing. Like blanka jhk could hit sims AA if sim mistimed it or mispaced it at all.

    I don't really understand your jab logic though. TBH.

    To me I only deserve a jumpin if I can jump when my opponent is so mindfucked that they can't react fast enough, or when they've left themselves open by like doing a fireball or something.


    I ALWAYS test my opponents AA ability and go from there. If my opponent can AA my first 3 jumps in a round I will generally not jump anymore AT ALL, unless it's a neutral jump or something.

    Because those jumps weren't designed JUST to get in. They were also designed to give me info on my opponent. My jump patterns are very specific. Jumping at different times means different things to me. Like there's the old do a pokestring then crossup jump pattern. That's good, and noobish. But if my opponent is weak to it I will abuse it. But if they aren't then... I won't.

    And if my opponent AA's me at THIS time, I know they are also generally open to me doing THIS (usually just walking forward and gobbling up space, but there are a lot more options depending on the opponent and character) and bla bla bla.


    TLDR:

    Leaning on Jumps in streetfighter is for baddies, don't be a baddy. And if you aren't a baddy you won't care about AA jab cause you won't be using jumpins as a crutch for bad footsies.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    Yeah, it's Spencer. And yes, I understand that jump-ins have an extended hurtbox. If memory serves me, all attacks (maybe just most?) have an extended hurt box.

    The thing is though you're talking about strategy and relative effectiveness of AA vs jump-ins. That's beside the point. I don't care if jumping is 100% unviable (which isn't the case). I just think jab being quite literally the go to for everything jump-in related is a tad silly. Not only is it silly, it looks silly. It is the anti-hype. Watching a good Ryu have an incredible fireball game and still land every shoryu against a jump in? That's hype. Watching a good Ryu hav an incredible fireball game only to jab every jump-in? Laaaaaaame.

    And for what it's worth, I too came up from World Warrior. I'm 33 which is no spring chicken in the FGC.

    @IglooBob

    No it isn't the same. I wasn't exaggerating in my last post. Jab literally covers *almost* every air option. It stuffs dive kicks, neutral jumps, cross-ups, standard jump-ins, Sim's teleport mix-ups, Nash's teleport mix-ups, basically anything in which your feet are off the ground, jab wins.

    Serious talk for those that know the mechanics better than I do, do air attacks obey the priority system? H > M > L? Or is it something like in KI where a jump-in counts for one level down so a j.h = 2m? Or does it ignore the priority system all together?
  • itzpookiieitzpookiie Sherry Jenix's Soulmate Joined: Posts: 4,423
    edited June 2016
    Command grabs have a different tech input instead of being untechable
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,877
    qspec wrote: »
    Yeah, it's Spencer. And yes, I understand that jump-ins have an extended hurtbox. If memory serves me, all attacks (maybe just most?) have an extended hurt box.

    The thing is though you're talking about strategy and relative effectiveness of AA vs jump-ins. That's beside the point. I don't care if jumping is 100% unviable (which isn't the case). I just think jab being quite literally the go to for everything jump-in related is a tad silly. Not only is it silly, it looks silly. It is the anti-hype. Watching a good Ryu have an incredible fireball game and still land every shoryu against a jump in? That's hype. Watching a good Ryu hav an incredible fireball game only to jab every jump-in? Laaaaaaame.

    And for what it's worth, I too came up from World Warrior. I'm 33 which is no spring chicken in the FGC.

    @IglooBob

    No it isn't the same. I wasn't exaggerating in my last post. Jab literally covers *almost* every air option. It stuffs dive kicks, neutral jumps, cross-ups, standard jump-ins, Sim's teleport mix-ups, Nash's teleport mix-ups, basically anything in which your feet are off the ground, jab wins.

    Serious talk for those that know the mechanics better than I do, do air attacks obey the priority system? H > M > L? Or is it something like in KI where a jump-in counts for one level down so a j.h = 2m? Or does it ignore the priority system all together?

    Air attacks don't. And jab can lose to Divekicks, I've done it. But if you want characters to not rely in jab anti airs then they should have better other options. Right now they really don't.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    @Muttonman

    All jabs can lose to all jump-ins, it is a matter of timing. But jab is still easily the most reliable "on reaction" counter to divekicks.

    Also, if characters right now don't have access to good AA, give them better options to AA. Like I've been saying, I don't particularly care if jumping is viable or not so much as I just despite the least cool moves in the game being a one-button stop for all your AA'ing needs.

    A page back, @Half Breed really said it well (Relevant parts quoted here for your convenience! Emphasis is mine.):
    Jab anti-airs seem like a band-aid capcom threw in to address a few issues they were too rushed or lazy to fix, and imo stems from their focus on lazy/easy-mode rushdown. Generally speaking if your opponent whifs a poke/normal in footsie range your safest option is to punish without jumping in on them, else you risk getting AAed or they block. However because of the input lag, stubbier normals, lack of combo variations, ect. in SFV jump-in and cross up combos are a lot more viable for most of the cast, especially since this game is built around momentum. [W]hy risk doing something that is harder to pull of, is easier to punish, and can potentially lead to a worse situation then simply pressing jab. Instead of asking for capcom to leave in a broken system, maybe Alex players should ask why his jab is better than a special whose sole purpose is to AA, though to be honest he does need it.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    qspec wrote: »
    Yeah, it's Spencer. And yes, I understand that jump-ins have an extended hurtbox. If memory serves me, all attacks (maybe just most?) have an extended hurt box.

    The thing is though you're talking about strategy and relative effectiveness of AA vs jump-ins. That's beside the point. I don't care if jumping is 100% unviable (which isn't the case). I just think jab being quite literally the go to for everything jump-in related is a tad silly. Not only is it silly, it looks silly. It is the anti-hype. Watching a good Ryu have an incredible fireball game and still land every shoryu against a jump in? That's hype. Watching a good Ryu hav an incredible fireball game only to jab every jump-in? Laaaaaaame.

    And for what it's worth, I too came up from World Warrior. I'm 33 which is no spring chicken in the FGC.

    @IglooBob

    No it isn't the same. I wasn't exaggerating in my last post. Jab literally covers *almost* every air option. It stuffs dive kicks, neutral jumps, cross-ups, standard jump-ins, Sim's teleport mix-ups, Nash's teleport mix-ups, basically anything in which your feet are off the ground, jab wins.

    Serious talk for those that know the mechanics better than I do, do air attacks obey the priority system? H > M > L? Or is it something like in KI where a jump-in counts for one level down so a j.h = 2m? Or does it ignore the priority system all together?

    I still don't see what your point is though... You say take out jab AA's, but replace them with something that is just as good... But make it a medium or a special or a heavy so it isn't as fast I presume? But then it wouldn't be "just as good" with regards to reaction time.. So to me this is weird wording/false representation of what you want.

    I mean jab as an AA isn't even viable across the cast. It's primarily necalli, ryu,Alex and maybe a couple other that have jab AA's that are good.

    It's also weird that you ask for this when other AA's in other games were near as fast, yet did way more damage. Gief had/has AA lariat. Other characrers have fast damaging crouching hard punches. Other characrers have great angled standing medium kicks


    The fact that it's a jab AA for 30 damage versus a 140 damage srk should actually be something you LIKE.

    If you came up with WW like me, I don't understand how you want multiple AA's to cover multiple jumps/divekicks/crossups.

    In those games the same AA's worked no matter the button pushed. Baddies didn't get a free mixup just because they wanted to, that they didn't work for.

    I really don't understand this want of strong mixups that one hasn't worked for via fundamental play. It boggles my mind actually.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,938
    Mixups are easier to understand.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    Mixups are easier to understand.

    Ohhhhhhh....


    Shit that just kinda dawned on me as obvious as it is. I just take it for granted that people understand fundamentals as well as mixups... To me they are like peanut butter and jelly, cereal and milk, ryu and ken... Etc

    None as good on their own as when mixed with the other.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    See if you want to talk viability, I'd argue that baddies still get free mix-ups without earning them. Jab > vskill or jab > dash isn't hard. Hell, it isn't even kind of hard.

    Shoryu anti-air actually meant something. It was a skill you had to develop, and one of the reasons better players were so impressive is because they were always able to buffer in a DP motion for when they actually needed it. Watching Momochi hit those super deep mp.shoryus into Ultra? That was fucking hype. Watching Chun flick boogers at a jump-in? Fucking stupid.

    Also, I actually think it encourages the jump-ins. You can eat 3 jabs for the same damage as a well timed DP... so that's 3 jump-in attempts that will lead to ungodly damage if they land... jump away. That alone should be reason enough to adjust them, since much of this game (up into higher levels) is a game of "the floor is lava".

    Plus, it isn't like jump-ins were all that hard to punish in SFIV, but the back and forth was a lot more interesting. Sure, you had to work at it... but it was one of the easier core skills to develop. You don't even have to work out AA jab... you just have to be told or see that it is viable and you can immediately plug it into your gameplan. Literally the only thing interesting about it is that you have to discover that it works as an AA. But once you realize that it is the best of all possible AA... *yawn*.

    Also, yeah... I want AAs to hit harder. My dream scenario is an AA that requires a tiny bit of skill, doesn't always lead into a mix-up, and hits hard.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 11,058
    edited June 2016
    qspec wrote: »
    See if you want to talk viability, I'd argue that baddies still get free mix-ups without earning them. Jab > vskill or jab > dash isn't hard. Hell, it isn't even kind of hard.
    .


    Yes, finally, a good point that is arguable and logical:


    I would see your point and raise you this:

    What's free about getting in range for a jab? When I play people I'm clearly better than, there is nothing "free" about that when they jump I AA, when they dash I space them out or hit them preemptively. When I play people that are clearly better than me, there is nothing free about me getting in against them... If I ever do get in.

    I like this point you made because it strikes to the heart of the matter. It is literally fundamentals 101 to understand the point you are making.

    There is NOTHING FREE ABOUT MAKING CONTACT WITH A JAB.

    Now, that has one caveat:

    Jumps that change angles/divekicks/viper burning kicks/fuerte splash shit/dictator or chun instant press-legs etc etc etc

    Destroy this fundamental to a certain extent. These kinds of moves are what actually kill fundamental streetfighter at its core BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE JAB MORE FREE.

    BUT!

    In sf4 this wasn't balanced at all. In sf5 however, one of the things I REALLY FEEL THEY GOT RIGHT, was the huge hurtboxes on all jump attacks and easy AA's to make up for divekick style moves, of which in this game, there are a ton:


    cammy divekick (low priority hitbox on regular divekick, also minus on block, high priority hitbox on ex dive, +0 on block, very high priority hitbox on v trigger dive, plus on block iirc... The ex and v trigger dives are "balanced" by needing meter, the regular dive is balanced by an easy to AA hurtbox and being negative on block and all dives have a height restriction)

    Chun has iall (balanced by huge hurtbox, any jab will wipe the move out)

    Rashid (balanced by being terrible on block, but have good priority and damage on hit)

    Alex stomp (bad on block, requires charge, hard to space. Ex version is hard to control and requires meter)

    Ken ex hurricane (requires meter, has a very specific range criteria to not be terrible on block)

    Bison head press and stomps etc (requires charge, best versions require meter and I think but am not sure that the hurtbox is huge)

    Bla bla bla... You get it. They all have some crippling weakness that keeps them from being spammed. Cammy is the closest one to being able to spam cause she should get around 5 really good divekicks a round (2-3 ex dives and 2 v trigger dives) as well as her regular divekick is a semi decent move to mixup with regular jumpins and ex dives. At any one point in time cammy has a neutral mixup of regular jumpin/regular dive/ex dive so she can be one of the harder characters to neutral against if the other person wants to abuse this mixup and your character doesn't have an invincible DP reversal.

    But going back to the original point about baddies getting free mixups off of jabs... Like I just explained, lists ode the kinds of moves I just listed... They don't get that jab for free. And in sf5 they especially don't because those kinds of attacks have all actually been balanced to a certain degree.

    The only people getting free jabs on me are people using characters in matchups where I don't know how to AA them appropriately:

    This is a few matchups but the biggest ones for me are dictator and rashid.

    Dictator is tough because he can change the angle on his headpress at will, rashid because he kinda just flies around like a loon and crosses me up and makes me try to bait his dumb running attacks, but then jumps instead bla bla bla.... He's tough for me to neutral against, personally, but I digress.


    Regularly jabs are far from free, especially if if one is bad and double especially if that bad person is playing against a good person.
    Gettin' my derp on.
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