Net code discussion. Rollback confirmed!

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  • AsteriskBlueAsteriskBlue Joined: Posts: 759
    All right. So what steps can be taken to show capcom are thoughts about netcode?
    It's nice to meet you, too.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,458
    I wonder if there a political or legal reason Capcom will not touch GGPO.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,096 mod
    Darksakul wrote: »
    I wonder if there a political or legal reason Capcom will not touch GGPO.
    It's more about Capcom Japan being idiots. Capcom USA is more than willing to use is.

    That said, they've already tried their hand at their own rollback implementation, so it shows that they do know that it's important.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • sh0ultzsh0ultz Joined: Posts: 674 mod
    All right. So what steps can be taken to show capcom are thoughts about netcode?

    I think one of my ideas went overlooked but I already thought of a way to do that. However, I can't do it by myself. I need people who can pull it off.
    sh0ultz wrote: »
    the main difference I'm noticing from the sf4\mvc3 vanilla threads I made about these topics is that this perspective was NEVER on any front page of any of the FGC regular websites. For it to be a thing the developers hear, even the most mundane stream monster must be saying its HAS to be there for sfv.

    That means front page srk, front page ehubs, reddit groups and anything else addresses the problems about the current version of the net-code and how bad it is. After we mention the problem, we mention how to solve it to which there is a current solution.

    what would it take to get front page articles covering these net-code topics? I feel like that is the only time developers hear us.

  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Anyone arguing input delay based netcode over being able to do things on reaction is an idiot. The very least Capcom can do if we don't get ggpo is to give us SFxT netcode.
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
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  • JasonWalravenJasonWalraven Joined: Posts: 539
    SFxT Netcode is terrible!!!!
  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,694
    Just letting you all know, ggpo gives you an option for input delay or rollback in the options, just turn up the delay. Honestly, there's no excuse not to use it.

    If it DOES get implemented, allow us to change the delay, depending on the ping you may want more or less rollback/input delay.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,096 mod
    SFxT Netcode is terrible!!!!
    Aside from the sound issues, SFxT netcode was actually pretty decent before the patch. The patch made it worse since I believe they increased the delay threshold that the system gave you.\

    IMO, aside from the sound, the only real issue with SFxT's netcode was that you couldn't adjust the delay threshold.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • gozulingozulin Defeated Sheng Long. Joined: Posts: 117
    Froztey wrote: »
    Ping numbers should be a standard for any game. Bars are stupid, what warrants a 3 bar connection, like 60 ping? What is the actual standard of my connection to the other player other than "It's green bro, good!"

    The engineer in me agrees with you, but maybe it's a ploy to prevent players from declining people based on overly high ping standards.
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,875
    I think Ono is hinting at GGPO being implemented when he says itll have something everyone wants.
    Northeast PA
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  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX SRK's ResidentSleeper Joined: Posts: 11,759
    ihira wrote: »
    Personally I've only ever heard complaints about SF4 netcode from people running shitty and/or wireless connections. Between being an online warrior for 4 years, and playing local casuals at the college, the difference is pretty insignificant. I can do combos with the same muscle memory and input timings for both scenarios. Things like marvel is one thing. The netcode for 4 though? It was pretty good considering you dont have other miscellaneous shit impeding your experience like throttling/bandwidth drought/network leeches/shitty router, etc.
    haha I was literally guessing how many posts in before this type of comment surfaces.
    they always use vague terms like 'its playable' 'pretty good' 'its good enough' that doesn't mean anything whatsoever.

    ahh

    So because somebody got a shitty connection, that invalidates my experience with the game?

    Lol k

    I had no issue with the netcode yellow bars and up on an ethernet connection. I'm also playing on a CRT so I dont know if that also plays a factor.
    And how the fuck are "it's playable" and "it's pretty good" vague terminology? Secondly, I didnt even use those terms. I'm struggling to understand the point of that post.
    Unchallenged owner of worst user name on SRK

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  • StockyJamStockyJam Joined: Posts: 5,402
    sh0ultz wrote: »
    There is this constant battle between pro\casual when the new games come out and casual market is infinitely louder so we receive crap most of the time. I do my part to speak up but for every 1 person like, there are 200-300 people on capcomunity, ehubs, srk saying the complete opposite that a good reasonable idea gets overshadowed by the mass of noise that is the FGC.

    welcome to the world of most old school players.

  • ihiraihira Adult fan of LEGO. Joined: Posts: 385
    d3v wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    I wonder if there a political or legal reason Capcom will not touch GGPO.
    It's more about Capcom Japan being idiots. Capcom USA is more than willing to use is.

    That said, they've already tried their hand at their own rollback implementation, so it shows that they do know that it's important.

    They know it. At least Ayano was hyping up how ggpo was a feature for Darkstalkers:R
    But I believe DS:R was done by Iron Galaxy so yea that just backs up the 'Capcom Japan being idiots' part


  • StockyJamStockyJam Joined: Posts: 5,402
    I remember playing fiends in Ultra when I still had it installed....and we were playing in a private lobby and the game would crash for all of us. All 5 of us. game would close, and so would the steam app! surprised our PCs wouldn't shut down and go into safe mode to top it all off.

    my friend called it a "disgusting bug."

    disgusting is an understatement. but yeah, some people wanna call that game playable. whatevs.
    I uninstalled it before it ever got a chance to hand out viruses to everyone lol.
  • Vampire_SaviourVampire_Saviour R4 Joined: Posts: 333
    shoultz I'm with you GGPO is excellent on everything I've used it with. Please, to the newcomers, make this case to Capcom: GGPO-based netcode is a must.
  • ihiraihira Adult fan of LEGO. Joined: Posts: 385
    ihira wrote: »
    Personally I've only ever heard complaints about SF4 netcode from people running shitty and/or wireless connections. Between being an online warrior for 4 years, and playing local casuals at the college, the difference is pretty insignificant. I can do combos with the same muscle memory and input timings for both scenarios. Things like marvel is one thing. The netcode for 4 though? It was pretty good considering you dont have other miscellaneous shit impeding your experience like throttling/bandwidth drought/network leeches/shitty router, etc.
    haha I was literally guessing how many posts in before this type of comment surfaces.
    they always use vague terms like 'its playable' 'pretty good' 'its good enough' that doesn't mean anything whatsoever.

    ahh

    So because somebody got a shitty connection, that invalidates my experience with the game?

    Lol k

    I had no issue with the netcode yellow bars and up on an ethernet connection. I'm also playing on a CRT so I dont know if that also plays a factor.
    And how the fuck are "it's playable" and "it's pretty good" vague terminology? Secondly, I didnt even use those terms. I'm struggling to understand the point of that post.

    The point of the post is you are likely ignorant in terms of playing fighting games at any serious level if you legitimately think yellow bars are acceptable. Things such as importance of responsiveness, reaction based gameplay are an alien concept to you (and many other people).
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,504 mod
    edited December 2014
    My experience with SF4 on the 360 was fantastic, best netcode in a fighter I've played. GFWL PC was even better, if SF4 doesn't have rollback I don't think it's a "necessity" for SF5 as much as a positive addition. I'm genuinely starting to think some of the complaints stem from bad connections, but everyone is entitled to opinions and I'm sure people have experienced issues with online with a good connection. I just don't think rollback is the primary concern that's all, as long as it is on par with SF4's green bar connections I would be content.
  • Zio_NameZio_Name Joined: Posts: 342
    Froztey wrote: »
    My experience with SF4 on the 360 was fantastic, best netcode in a fighter I've played. GFWL PC was even better, if SF4 doesn't have rollback I don't think it's a "necessity" for SF5 as much as a positive addition. I'm genuinely starting to think some of the complaints stem from bad connections, but everyone is entitled to opinions and I'm sure people have experienced issues with online with a good connection. I just don't think rollback is the primary concern that's all, as long as it is on par with SF4's green bar connections I would be content.

    I'm almost sure that's the case too. But while i have an excellent DSL connection (for what can be considered "excellent" in Italy, though, and i guess that an average of 40-50 ms of ping with all Europe is probably a good result in anyway), sometimes, i can definitely feel that the problem is on the other end of the match, the other player. GGPO solves that. I can play people pretty decently even with 250-300 ms of ping both on GGPO with classic Capcom Fighters and on PC with Skullgirls..
  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,167
    GGPO is fucking great when you aren't facing morons who have 0 input delay and lag the game to death.
    You can use BBCode in your post. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • StockyJamStockyJam Joined: Posts: 5,402
    d3v wrote: »
    If you've played the same people on a GGPO/rollback enabled game and on SFIV, you will feel the difference.

    I think a lot of people who don't care if rollback gets used or not have never even been on GGPO to have those opinions. Or used it properly. I cant imagine someone that has been on GGPO saying they wouldn't mind if SF5 doesn't use it.

  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,487
    I think a lot of people who don't care if rollback gets used or not have never even been on GGPO to have those opinions. Or used it properly. I cant imagine someone that has been on GGPO saying they wouldn't mind if SF5 doesn't use it.

    True, and when the blind lead the blind don't they both fall off a cliff? Anyone who thinks input delay is find, go buy Skullgirls when it is on sale (a lot) or play ggpo on PC (any cheap computer will be able to run those games) and see for yourself. You'll feel really stupid when u see what good online is like.





  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    I thought GGPO didn't work very well for 3D games?
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Pro MarshmalloPro Marshmallo Joined: Posts: 494
    Ping counts and some kind of rollback netcode, GGPO or not, needs to be used. Lag and slowdown is murder on charge characters.
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  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,875
    Doopliss wrote: »
    I thought GGPO didn't work very well for 3D games?

    I think thats just something capcom said to shut people up. The game does not need to send graphical information, just inputs.

    If they want to make sure the animations match whatever was there before roll back, then they can just send ONE number with it the inputs, and the number can represent the time at which the lag took place, let the local machine figure out what the animation is supposed to be like.


    I'm a computer programmer and I dont buy for a second that GGPO cant be used for 2.5D fighting games.
    Northeast PA
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  • LoghornLoghorn Joined: Posts: 284
    That's a good idea.
  • AsteriskBlueAsteriskBlue Joined: Posts: 759
    edited December 2014
    My example: I thought sf4 had decent online play until skullgirls came out. It really was like night and day. Then, on top of that, they updated SG's netcode with the first major patch and it actually got even better. Most anything under 100 ping feels extremely close to offline. DS:R was the same. SF4's netcode can't compare to GGPO.
    Post edited by AsteriskBlue on
    It's nice to meet you, too.
  • ihiraihira Adult fan of LEGO. Joined: Posts: 385
    sh0ultz wrote: »
    Even if wong, valle came in here and said, sf4 is GREAT online. I would say something similar to them if they offered no logical argument. However, very rarely do OGs do that. Its ALWAYS new players.
    Correct.
    Top players, or any player that plays Fighting games with an ounce of competitiveness in it for that matter, will rarely say such thing.
    They know the importance of responsiveness for fighting games. They understand how it affects the gameplay (hint: in a negative manner).
    They have years of playing and can detect even 1-2 frames of lag compared to offline play. It hinders their experience of how the game should be played. Its frustrating that you have no choice but to play with input lag.

    Its really astounding how so many players actually think SF4 netcode is 'fine' and tolerate it.
    Thats pretty fucking sad that I'm in minority in the FGC if I want my inputs to be crisp responsive and as close to offline timings as possible.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,372 mod
    The creators of GGPO helped advise for the netcode for KI and its definitely among the best. I'm sure no one's mentioned yet since not many people here probably have the game, but along with Skullgirls it's really up there.

    After KI there is no excuse for SFV to not have GGPO. Capcom already showed that they were trying to move towards rollback netcode with SFxT. Expect them to have GGPO or their own rollback netcode by release.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,363
    Don't expect them to do anything.
    I expected a good Steam transition, lol.
    CFN: NaughtySenpai
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Righto. Joined: Posts: 13,773
    I want this, I also want the PC version to be written in OpenGL so that there's a possibility of a Linux version of the game, thus eliminating all dependency on Windows for me.

    I'd be happy with one of two, but I'd really love to see that all major OS's on computer get supported.
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  • TheFreshPrinceTheFreshPrince Sold so many chickens think I work for Kroger Joined: Posts: 3,725
    Anyone who thinks SF4 has good netcode, I want you to do an experiment. Play about 10 matches of SF4 online, preferably against at least 5 different people who all have green bars. Now try to pick a character whom you've used offline but don't play with much online, and use that character for all 10 matches. This step is pretty important, because your muscle memory has not yet adapted to online play with that character, which will minimize the risk of inaccurate results. Try to remember how hard doing simple links and reacting to jumps/whiffed moves is.

    Now go download GGPO and your favorite old game (I'm not sure if 3S works anymore?). Now play a few matches with players who have <70-80 ping preferably. You will notice a world of difference between how responsive it is compared to SF4.
    You just can't handle the fresh prince.

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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,096 mod
    There's always FightCade, which is basically a better version of the GGPO matchmaking client.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • StockyJamStockyJam Joined: Posts: 5,402
    edited December 2014
    So the feedback on the input delay based netcode just came in on KOF98FE on steam.
    As expected, its horrible. Worse than UltraSF4. That bad.
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/222420/discussions/

    If you really really love SF, for the love of all that's good and holy, demand rollback for V.
    I cannot stress this anymore emphatically.
    Threaten Capcom with either rollback or no purchase at all of SFV.
    Its the only way.
    I'm serious.

    p.s.
    As for Capcom
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/45760/
    Shame on you Capcom for asking for $29.99 for a completely broken game. Not even for $1.00 bros.
  • YorKeYYorKeY Devil May Cry? Not Trish Stratus, just Trish. Joined: Posts: 6,827


    I want them to use the same Steam works net code they use for USF4 on PC currently, it's pretty godlike. Kappa_zps58773a72.png
    Dota 2 player.
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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Psycho Denji Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2014
    Froztey wrote: »
    My experience with SF4 on the 360 was fantastic, best netcode in a fighter I've played. GFWL PC was even better, if SF4 doesn't have rollback I don't think it's a "necessity" for SF5 as much as a positive addition. I'm genuinely starting to think some of the complaints stem from bad connections, but everyone is entitled to opinions and I'm sure people have experienced issues with online with a good connection. I just don't think rollback is the primary concern that's all, as long as it is on par with SF4's green bar connections I would be content.

    I completely believe this is from the user end. USF4 on PC is a terrible experience compared to the Xbox 360 version cause some of these players are either torrenting porn, have their mics on, little sister is on youtube watching music videos and ect... These idiots dont understand how the internet works at all when it comes to fighting games. Its really is annoying. The people that play on the PC version complain that its dead compared to consoles when it comes to population. All I have to say its completely their fault, get your shit together.

    As for SF5 netcode, give me whatever you did with SF4 and just make a more enhanced up to date version. GGPO rollbacks can get a dick.
    Fightcade, Steam and XBL tag: Projectjustice
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  • atiradoratirador It means "shooter", don't ask Joined: Posts: 1,599
    edited December 2014
    No!

    I'd rather have a game stuttering than see characters teleporting on the screen, and I rarely see SFIV stuttering when both players are only using their respective connections for the game.

    Keep in mind that I play on PSN, live in Brazil, a gigantic country with horrible internet and I know a lot of players that are used to play offline and can play online decently with me.

    My terrible experience with HDR and SFxT led me to believe that it's best to use the SFIV netcode than those two.

    The mere fact that Japan can have pretty good online tournaments is proof enough for me that the netcode in SFIV works.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,096 mod
    atirador wrote: »
    No!

    I'd rather have a game stuttering than see characters teleporting on the screen, and I rarely see SFIV stuttering when both players are only using their respective connections for the game.

    Keep in mind that I play on PSN, live in Brazil, a gigantic country with horrible internet and I know a lot of players that are used to play offline and can play online decently with me.

    My terrible experience with HDR and SFxT led me to believe that it's best to use the SFIV netcode than those two.

    The mere fact that Japan can have pretty good online tournaments is proof enough for me that the netcode in SFIV works.

    Or you could freaking set your delay right based on your ping to your opponent and not have to worry about rollbacks unless something major hits your network.

    I've played online across the Pacific on some slow ass internet from the Philippines to the United States on games with rollback code and haven't had issues.

    The thing about rollback code, once you've adapted to whatever delay you've set, the game feels almost like offline. That's why we keep insisting that fighting games use it.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • atiradoratirador It means "shooter", don't ask Joined: Posts: 1,599
    edited December 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    atirador wrote: »
    No!

    I'd rather have a game stuttering than see characters teleporting on the screen, and I rarely see SFIV stuttering when both players are only using their respective connections for the game.

    Keep in mind that I play on PSN, live in Brazil, a gigantic country with horrible internet and I know a lot of players that are used to play offline and can play online decently with me.

    My terrible experience with HDR and SFxT led me to believe that it's best to use the SFIV netcode than those two.

    The mere fact that Japan can have pretty good online tournaments is proof enough for me that the netcode in SFIV works.

    Or you could freaking set your delay right based on your ping to your opponent and not have to worry about rollbacks unless something major hits your network.

    I've played online across the Pacific on some slow ass internet from the Philippines to the United States on games with rollback code and haven't had issues.

    The thing about rollback code, once you've adapted to whatever delay you've set, the game feels almost like offline. That's why we keep insisting that fighting games use it.

    "set your delay based on your ping to your opponent"... Do you see the problem here?

    I'm a programmer and an IT guy, but 90% of the people I know that play videogames wouldn't have a clue about what you just said.

    Someday people will realize that most games aren't made for the aficionado, I think that "regular" players prefer colored bars over weird numbers and a game that stutters every once in a while than a game with weird behavior like characters teleporting on the screen (on my first time playing HDR online I was really surprised by that) or sound glitches like SFxT
  • atiradoratirador It means "shooter", don't ask Joined: Posts: 1,599
    edited December 2014
    Not to mention that most of the SFV players will play the game over wireless connections (most of the time is the most convenient way to hook up your console), will choose big TVs without considering how much input delay it has, will play using sound systems / HT that add delay to the audio and will use the default wireless controler.

    If all you want is to have a little fun online, SFIV netcode is good enough. If you really, really that worried about playing the game as perfect as possible, you're most likely playing offline anyway.
  • BurnYourEgoBurnYourEgo Ishikawa don't care about your weeabullshit avatar. Joined: Posts: 1,995
    edited December 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    GGPO rollbacks can get a dick.
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to hold the fighting game genre back.

    I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people who obviously have no idea saying that netcode that changes the amount of input delay in the middle of a match is acceptable for a fighting game. You're basically saying that you're fine with netcode that slows the game down and messes with your inputs in the middle of a match. There's a reason why GGPO and rollback netcode in general was developed - because the kind of variable delay netcode you see in SFIV is flat out unacceptable.

    I would wager he's the type of person that would rage about games taking frame rate dips mid game play, and then he would go and defend input delay netcode, when they're effectively the same experience.

    For everyone saying input delay based netcode is ok, you're pretty much arguing that, "Street Fighter 5 should run at 60fps, but it's cool if it dips to 45fps or worse for 2-3 seconds mid match"
    Steam: BurnYourEgo: Terribly playing KOFXIII and Xrd, want to learn Skullgirls
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  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Psycho Denji Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    d3v wrote: »
    GGPO rollbacks can get a dick.
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to hold the fighting game genre back.

    I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people who obviously have no idea saying that netcode that changes the amount of input delay in the middle of a match is acceptable for a fighting game. You're basically saying that you're fine with netcode that slows the game down and messes with your inputs in the middle of a match. There's a reason why GGPO and rollback netcode in general was developed - because the kind of variable delay netcode you see in SFIV is flat out unacceptable.

    I would wager he's the type of person that would rage about games taking frame rate dips mid game play, and then he would go and defend input delay netcode, when they're effectively the same experience.

    For everyone saying input delay based netcode is ok, you're pretty much arguing that, "Street Fighter 5 should run at 60fps, but it's cool if it dips to 45fps or worse for 2-3 seconds mid match"

    You made that wager and lost.

    Anyways, I listed the reasons I dont want GGPO in my original post. Most players dont know how to play online or understand how things work for a proper connection. SFIV netcode works better because of this. If you want perfect gameplay then stay offline.
    Fightcade, Steam and XBL tag: Projectjustice
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  • atiradoratirador It means "shooter", don't ask Joined: Posts: 1,599
    edited December 2014
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to teach us, Fighting Game Developers, how to properly make good games and have a profit. We already contacted MikeZ and all the SkullGirls Team, since they made such a successful product.

    Geez, no wonder GGPO and SkullGirls fans usually are the same people... you sound like vegans, trying to convince the world that you're righ and everybody else is wrong.

    If rollback netcode was so obviously superior without any possible drawback, you'd think they would all be using it by now, right? Or maybe Capcom is just evil and wants us to suffer without any other reason...

    Go ahead, flag me to hell
  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Psycho Denji Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    atirador wrote: »
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to teach us, Fighting Game Developers, how to properly make good games and have a profit. We already contacted MikeZ and all the SkullGirls Team, since they made such a successful product.

    Geez, no wonder GGPO and SkullGirls fans usually are the same people... you sound like vegans, trying to convince the world that you're righ and everybody else is wrong.

    If rollback netcode was so obviously superior without any possible drawback, you'd think they would all be using it by now, right? Or maybe Capcom is just evil and wants us to suffer without any other reason...

    Go ahead, flag me to hell

    I can understand your pain with Brazil's internet infrastructure. If SFV gets GGPO it would be unplayable for you guys online.
    Fightcade, Steam and XBL tag: Projectjustice
    PSN: Projectjustice77
  • BurnYourEgoBurnYourEgo Ishikawa don't care about your weeabullshit avatar. Joined: Posts: 1,995
    edited December 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    GGPO rollbacks can get a dick.
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to hold the fighting game genre back.

    I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people who obviously have no idea saying that netcode that changes the amount of input delay in the middle of a match is acceptable for a fighting game. You're basically saying that you're fine with netcode that slows the game down and messes with your inputs in the middle of a match. There's a reason why GGPO and rollback netcode in general was developed - because the kind of variable delay netcode you see in SFIV is flat out unacceptable.

    I would wager he's the type of person that would rage about games taking frame rate dips mid game play, and then he would go and defend input delay netcode, when they're effectively the same experience.

    For everyone saying input delay based netcode is ok, you're pretty much arguing that, "Street Fighter 5 should run at 60fps, but it's cool if it dips to 45fps or worse for 2-3 seconds mid match"

    You made that wager and lost.

    Anyways, I listed the reasons I dont want GGPO in my original post. Most players dont know how to play online or understand how things work for a proper connection. SFIV netcode works better because of this. If you want perfect gameplay then stay offline.

    Ah but here's the genius of it all. If we get real ping numbers and rollback netcode we can avoid those people that don't understand how to make things work properly and are still better off than doing the same thing with input delay because we have a better underlying framework to begin with. We shouldn't have to cater to the lowest common denominator. And maybe the people that don't have their shit configured properly will go out and learn something to improve their user experience or get sick of the teleporting characters and people not accepting matches with them and give up playing the game online.
    Steam: BurnYourEgo: Terribly playing KOFXIII and Xrd, want to learn Skullgirls
    Fightcade:Bathtub_Leviathan: ST, maybe 3s
  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Psycho Denji Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    GGPO rollbacks can get a dick.
    Thank you for your opinion. We hope to hear your other ideas on how to hold the fighting game genre back.

    I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people who obviously have no idea saying that netcode that changes the amount of input delay in the middle of a match is acceptable for a fighting game. You're basically saying that you're fine with netcode that slows the game down and messes with your inputs in the middle of a match. There's a reason why GGPO and rollback netcode in general was developed - because the kind of variable delay netcode you see in SFIV is flat out unacceptable.

    I would wager he's the type of person that would rage about games taking frame rate dips mid game play, and then he would go and defend input delay netcode, when they're effectively the same experience.

    For everyone saying input delay based netcode is ok, you're pretty much arguing that, "Street Fighter 5 should run at 60fps, but it's cool if it dips to 45fps or worse for 2-3 seconds mid match"

    You made that wager and lost.

    Anyways, I listed the reasons I dont want GGPO in my original post. Most players dont know how to play online or understand how things work for a proper connection. SFIV netcode works better because of this. If you want perfect gameplay then stay offline.

    Ah but here's the genius of it all. If we get real ping numbers and rollback netcode we can avoid those people that don't understand how to make things work properly and are still better off than doing the same thing with input delay because we have a better underlying framework to begin with. We shouldn't have to cater to the lowest common denominator. And maybe the people that don't have their shit configured properly will go out and learn something to improve their user experience or get sick of the teleporting characters or people not accepting matches with them and give up playing the game online.

    I would of agreed with you in my younger years but now that im older more experienced this is a bad way of conducting business in todays high budget titles. Creating a AAA title on those levels of budgets you have to cater to everyone for your product to be successful. I dunno about you but I personally would love to see the continued growth of the FGC. If you look at EVO tournament pre-09 it looked like it was being done in some underground back alley as if it was an illegal activity compared to whats going on today. Capcom needs to sell this game to everyone, not just the 10 elitist that require GGPO or bust. If you think SF would be as big as it is now if it had GGPO as its netcode with those rollbacks and how people treat their connections? I dont think so. Skullgirl has GGPO good for them, yet no one is playing that game. They need to look at a netcode that works in JP, NA and EU. Not what Burnyourego and D3v requires cause in the end SRK.com alone cant fund this title.
    Fightcade, Steam and XBL tag: Projectjustice
    PSN: Projectjustice77
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