Net code discussion. Rollback confirmed!

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  • ZenisideZeniside Joined: Posts: 2,987
    Still too much one-sided lag in this game. This game keeps matching me up with this laggy retard. All the NPCs go super speed and he keeps teleporting everywhere making it almost impossible to do anything yet he can play full combo mode. It is bullshit.
  • spliffy_bazspliffy_baz Joined: Posts: 155
    OceanSalt wrote: »
    gradx wrote: »
    da_closer6 wrote: »
    has anyone else had more lag/rollback since the newest patch w Juri came out? I'm getting a lot more rollback

    it would be naive to attribute it to "worse code" but rather a higher # of randoms playing from wifi or backwoods connections

    VF5FS doesn't have one sided teleporting rollbacks on terrible PS3 PSN even among the worst of wireless players. In VF (or any other game not called SF5) i've never seen health be restored after it's lost, or actual hits that connect get rolled back including their damage, in SF5 i've had that happen vs wired friends many many times. The SF5 netcode is utter garbage.

    You clearly never played any game with rollback netcode whatsoever.
    I have KI on X1 and PC and have played good rollback games and SF5 issues were not present in KI at all any of the times i've played it. I played KI online waaaaaay more than SF5 for obvious reasons. SF5 netcode is utter $hit.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    OceanSalt wrote: »
    gradx wrote: »
    da_closer6 wrote: »
    has anyone else had more lag/rollback since the newest patch w Juri came out? I'm getting a lot more rollback

    it would be naive to attribute it to "worse code" but rather a higher # of randoms playing from wifi or backwoods connections

    VF5FS doesn't have one sided teleporting rollbacks on terrible PS3 PSN even among the worst of wireless players. In VF (or any other game not called SF5) i've never seen health be restored after it's lost, or actual hits that connect get rolled back including their damage, in SF5 i've had that happen vs wired friends many many times. The SF5 netcode is utter garbage.

    You clearly never played any game with rollback netcode whatsoever.
    I have KI on X1 and PC and have played good rollback games and SF5 issues were not present in KI at all any of the times i've played it. I played KI online waaaaaay more than SF5 for obvious reasons. SF5 netcode is utter $hit.

    KI is just the better netcode out there period. The things you described can happen currently in Fightcade because it's simply the way a rollback netcode works: when there's a desync the game rolls back to a previous state and cancels everything that might've happened after that. There's nothing specific to SF5 in that.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    OceanSalt wrote: »
    OceanSalt wrote: »
    gradx wrote: »
    da_closer6 wrote: »
    has anyone else had more lag/rollback since the newest patch w Juri came out? I'm getting a lot more rollback

    it would be naive to attribute it to "worse code" but rather a higher # of randoms playing from wifi or backwoods connections

    VF5FS doesn't have one sided teleporting rollbacks on terrible PS3 PSN even among the worst of wireless players. In VF (or any other game not called SF5) i've never seen health be restored after it's lost, or actual hits that connect get rolled back including their damage, in SF5 i've had that happen vs wired friends many many times. The SF5 netcode is utter garbage.

    You clearly never played any game with rollback netcode whatsoever.
    I have KI on X1 and PC and have played good rollback games and SF5 issues were not present in KI at all any of the times i've played it. I played KI online waaaaaay more than SF5 for obvious reasons. SF5 netcode is utter $hit.

    KI is just the better netcode out there period. The things you described can happen currently in Fightcade because it's simply the way a rollback netcode works: when there's a desync the game rolls back to a previous state and cancels everything that might've happened after that. There's nothing specific to SF5 in that.

    I think you're going out of your way to defend netcode that has some pretty significant flaws.

    The following is a list of games that blow SFV netcode away:

    Skullgirls
    Killer Instinct
    Lethal League
    Rising Thunder
    Melty Blood with Caster

    I don't play fightcade, so I won't even bother comparing the two, but when comparing rollback netcode, SFV is at the bottom of the barrel. It sucks to put it simply. I am sure in a year or so, it will be perfectly functional, but the problems listed by Spliffy are the rule and not the exception. Those same problems when compared to other rollback netcodes are the exceptions and not the rule.

    The problem with SFV is the way in which their netcode is handled. You don't have to take my word for it though. Here's MikeZ's tweet criticizing the netcode with a response from Mauve agreeing with him. That's a tweet from a person who has successfully implemented netcode (GGPO) and a response from a person who is probably the single most authority on FG netcode as far as I am concerned agreeing with him. There is nothing to defend here.

    That's not to say that the other person is wrong. The extra bad lag may be because of people with shitty connections dropping in to try out Juri... but if there is one company who could probably make the netcode worse with each passing patch, that company would be Capcom.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    qspec wrote: »
    -snip-

    My point was that the things he was describing like they were unusual or a symptom of a bad netcode were literal descriptions of how rollback netcode works. It's like complaining that a delay netcode has a massive input delay; it's just how it is. Nobody even questions that SF5 doesn't have the better rollback netcode out there, but what he said basically amounts to criticizing it because it's rollback netcode.
    One-sided lag on the other hand is truly unacceptable for any netcode whatsoever, and that's the issue Mike Z and Mauve are talking about - which has nothing to do with rollback.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • appomoappomo uupps Joined: Posts: 3,871
    edited August 2016
    but the question is then what kind of netcode is better /fairer?
    that both gets the same input delay or just one person the rollbacks?

  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    Why is that the question?

    Like OceanSalt said, any netcode that dumps the entirety of its delay/lag onto one player is unacceptable.

    That's a false dichotomy. Further, as it stands right now, both situations exist (and neither in their present state are is acceptable).
  • SkieghSkiegh I am Ryudo Unit 2R Joined: Posts: 428
    Yeah, one sided problems are just nonsense, and from my own experimentation, it's usually the person with the better internet or PC getting the desync problems, since they aren't the ones falling behind either frame-wise or packet-wise, and thus get fucked with loads of warping.

    Bring out your toasters and EarthLink connection guys, it's time to desync them whores.
  • danimedanime dat swede. Joined: Posts: 174
    edited August 2016
    Maybe it's better for me to downgrade my internet again. Recently upgraded (right before SFV launch) to 100/100 because I thought my 100/10 wasn't always cutting it in SF4 when I was hosting lobbies. Figured it'd be smoother for a p2p game like this, but perhaps I've only been doing myself a disservice. Even though I only play 5 bar connections from Europe, there'll be heavy desync pretty much all my matches. It's especially annoying since the other person seems unaffected and thinks he's hot shit, while I try to play footsies with someone who is teleporting all over the place. Can't really tell them whats up either, because you have to talk like some retarded person with premade phrases:

    Connections slow!
    Ok!
    Thank you for the match!
    Th-th-thunder!
    Yee haaw!
    Goodnight.

    If only there was some way humans could communicate online using text messages...

    SF4 was MUCH better for me connection wise on average, but the odd matches that are good in SFV are better than SF4, sort of. They are far and few in between though, when we can go for extended sets without problems and with how poor region searching is in this game, it's very tedious to play. It gets annoying to wade through jp and us players for 10 minutes before finding someone to play.
    Tu-tu-ruu~ Danime desu!
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,504 mod
    It isn't speed that determines the connection quality, it plays a part but it's not the important bit. Your old connection was fine, it's the other internet doohiky things that help.
  • ParryThisParryThis Joined: Posts: 439
    anyone else getting matched with an abnormal # of Brazilians (3-5). Connection is shit. That's it, only 4-5 bars from now on.
    My Mains:
    3rdStrike: Hugo
    SF5: Urien
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    3-5? You like to live dangerously...
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • ClockUpClockUp (CFN: ClockUp) Joined: Posts: 99
    Yes, I am Brazillian and I'm getting matched against US and Canadian players very often lately. Sometimes the connection is smooth, but I have had some very crappy experiences too.
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  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce <------Not a Shill ('til Makoto happen) Joined: Posts: 2,775
    After 2 hours this weekend I remember why I didn't played SFV online since May. 5 to 10 minutes for a match then get paired with someone from the other side of the world? Seriously? It's a fuckin' pain play online and no, I'm not a fan of DBZ full teleport matches against Mexicans or Indians,especially if I'm from Italy. It's that hard put a goddamn region filter? Fuck that
  • shinbojanshinbojan Joined: Posts: 456
    Nothing like being matched with 1/5 guy although you specified 4-5 range.
  • KeckaKecka Psycho Crushing that booty Joined: Posts: 1,556
    I don't really have much of a problem. I've played games with waaaaay shittier netcode. Sure, it's not fantastic, but it's not SNK or NRS bad.

    I will say, however, that that one match where you visually confirm that you hit the motherfucker, only for it to never have happened and you end up losing because of that moment is really painful.
    SFV: Gief, Bison
    Xrd: Fucking nobody and everybody, but I like Elphelt, Sin, Raven and Ramlethal a little more than others
    Garou: Grant, Butt
    KI: Riptor, Aganos
  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce <------Not a Shill ('til Makoto happen) Joined: Posts: 2,775
    I can't play a match where,after hitting my opponent,I find myself on ground because the rollback is that bad. I can't play waiting 5 minutes between matches. I can't play smoothly against players from USA or Asia, so why I get paired with them every time?
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    edited September 2016
    Personally I had a good run this weekend, I only got a weird match against a UK guy who was probably running the game on an Amstrad CPC and against a French lag switcher, otherwise the filter worked pretty well. But I must also say that my country probably has one of the largest player bases in the entire Europe.
    feroce82 wrote: »
    After 2 hours this weekend I remember why I didn't played SFV online since May. 5 to 10 minutes for a match then get paired with someone from the other side of the world? Seriously? It's a fuckin' pain play online and no, I'm not a fan of DBZ full teleport matches against Mexicans or Indians,especially if I'm from Italy. It's that hard put a goddamn region filter? Fuck that

    I find funny that Italians get regularly matched with Mexicans (you're not the only one reporting that) and Germans to USA. Maybe there is a region filter after all, not the one we need but the one we deserve.
    Post edited by OceanMachine on
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,185
    Netcode was done by one guy. They need to add another guy to that, Mike Z.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Netcode was done by one guy

    Server structure *
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Netcode was done by one guy. They need to add another guy to that, Mike Z.

    I mean, if we are just picking random folk out of the air, why not go with the guy who wrote the "book" on it? http://mauve.mizuumi.net/2012/07/05/understanding-fighting-game-networking/
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    The region pairing doesn't work. I'm in Ireland. I play someone from great Britain or Ireland every 8-9 matches. Some of my matches are european, mostly French, German and Scandinavian.

    Problem is the majority are USA, Brazil, Canada etc. A chore.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    edited October 2016
    There is no region pairing in SF5, only ping pairing. This means that anyone that is queuing which latency is in the range you've chosen through the MM menu is a possible opponent for you.
    However ping detection seems a little shoddy and in recent patches they made the range much wider even when you set it to 5 bars. I suggest to use the background search and to set it to ask before accepting to avoid occasional bad ping opponents.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    edited October 2016
    Ahhh

    Ok I was wondering.
    I'm guessing a lot of players dropped off.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • PJQu3stPJQu3st Joined: Posts: 5
    I'm in northern Canada.. my internet is tops, I play on PC with a hardline connection... I just quit SFV because the online play is so horrible. There's no need for it, I play many other fighting games that use GGPO that play amazing online... this game will die
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    PJQu3st wrote: »
    I'm in northern Canada.. my internet is tops

    Seriously, they already told you to stop with these jokes.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 701
    Cammy spiral arrows are supposed to have 20+ frames of recovery.

    Ryu/Ken tatsus are -10 on block.

    All Balrogs dash Punches are at least -4 on block.

    Online...... All +80
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I usually just play people within a reasonable distance and I don't run into much rollback at all. If I play ranked or something I do 5 bars only, occasionally I'll run into a bad connection but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • VinushikaVinushika Joined: Posts: 112
    edited December 2016
    I usually just play people within a reasonable distance and I don't run into much rollback at all. If I play ranked or something I do 5 bars only, occasionally I'll run into a bad connection but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be.

    I've been pretty pleasantly surprised by the experience. I have more trouble fighting other people in the US than the times I get people in Brazil, Chile (!!), or even France and Poland (!). We've come a long way since beta 3, and SF4. I tend to have very little rollback, and when I do, it's spikes rather than a whole match worth of teleports.

    I wish Capcom would let you turn off relay connections though, or at least make information about that clearer; I only found out literally 3 months into the game what those little wiggly icons on the match screen mean. Cause in the end, you can have a top tier connection, live in a place with good backbone infrastructure...but your NAT is set up wrong and you can't actually connect to anyone but you can't tell because all you get is a tiny icon Capcom barely ever talks about.
    Let's fight like gentlemen.
  • purbeastpurbeast Joined: Posts: 4,682
    I usually just play people within a reasonable distance and I don't run into much rollback at all. If I play ranked or something I do 5 bars only, occasionally I'll run into a bad connection but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be.

    The fact that you personally don't have problems doesn't mean others don't have problems.
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    purbeast wrote: »
    I usually just play people within a reasonable distance and I don't run into much rollback at all. If I play ranked or something I do 5 bars only, occasionally I'll run into a bad connection but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be.

    The fact that you personally don't have problems doesn't mean others don't have problems.

    I didn't mean to imply that.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,185
    purbeast wrote: »
    I usually just play people within a reasonable distance and I don't run into much rollback at all. If I play ranked or something I do 5 bars only, occasionally I'll run into a bad connection but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be.

    The fact that you personally don't have problems doesn't mean others don't have problems.

    I didn't mean to imply that.


    Then it's exactly as bad as people make it out to be. Just not for you.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • ZadiekZadiek Joined: Posts: 45
    Skiegh wrote: »
    Yeah, one sided problems are just nonsense, and from my own experimentation, it's usually the person with the better internet or PC getting the desync problems, since they aren't the ones falling behind either frame-wise or packet-wise, and thus get fucked with loads of warping.

    Bring out your toasters and EarthLink connection guys, it's time to desync them whores.

    I can pretty much confirm this to be true. I have a high end PC(not even close to EVER dropping below 60fps), and Google Fiber internet(1GB connection). Pretty much EVERY game I play vs another PC player is unplayable. Funny enough....I don't have nearly as much issues fighting against PS4 players. Wish they had a filter to only play PS4 players...or fix the damn game I suppose.
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,860
    Im hoping the patch fixes the pc desynch. Got a pretty nice computer too and stick to PS4 cuz PC version rollsback heavy after 10 seconds into every fight.


    I even played against my brother online in the same room and the ps4 version would run fine while I would be teleporting all over the place on the pc right next to him

    Just a thought, but if you are having that much problems on PC SFV there may be some port issues at hand. It'll explain how some games can be smooth while SFV runs like shit... I had the same issue with Rainbow Six Siege on PS4.. For some reason I had less than optimal experiences with that game over others... some router tweeks and port changes per their website fixed everything.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "I'll be honest, I don't know why you hang out in Nintendo threads. You seem to hate everything they do." - Po Pimpus
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,550
    Whose website?

    I've gotten 100% teleporting either because I moved to a new place or because the latest update.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • SanjiephSanjieph Joined: Posts: 92
    Zeniside wrote: »
    Still too much one-sided lag in this game. This game keeps matching me up with this laggy retard. All the NPCs go super speed and he keeps teleporting everywhere making it almost impossible to do anything yet he can play full combo mode. It is bullshit.

    so why the fuck the game is keeping the NPCs in sync or whatever it is doing that makes them go crazy during lag

    those are valuable packets that could be used to keep better track of the opponent!
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,550
    I'm having lag problems since my new ISP. My 5 bar matches start okay but then start teleporting after 2-5 seconds.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • Dragonfave723Dragonfave723 Kiss the future! Joined: Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Capcom reaffirmed to us that they will continue to improve their network infrastructure this year: https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131356

    今年は昨年よりも快適に楽しくプレイしていただけるよう、ネットワークの改善を含め尽力しておりますので何卒よろしくお願い致します。
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    Capcom reaffirmed to us that they will continue to improve their network infrastructure this year: https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131356

    今年は昨年よりも快適に楽しくプレイしていただけるよう、ネットワークの改善を含め尽力しておりますので何卒よろしくお願い致します。

    From the post translation it looks like they are also doing special stuff for SF anniversary... hope they'll make it great again.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,185
    Capcom reaffirmed to us that they will continue to improve their network infrastructure this year: https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131356

    今年は昨年よりも快適に楽しくプレイしていただけるよう、ネットワークの改善を含め尽力しておりますので何卒よろしくお願い致します。


    After how much worse the online gets after every patch and server maintenance they do, I'd hate to see how much worse it gets once they "improve" it.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,049
    Capcom reaffirmed to us that they will continue to improve their network infrastructure this year: https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/column/131356

    今年は昨年よりも快適に楽しくプレイしていただけるよう、ネットワークの改善を含め尽力しておりますので何卒よろしくお願い致します。


    After how much worse the online gets after every patch and server maintenance they do, I'd hate to see how much worse it gets once they "improve" it.

    I can't read Japanese but according to a recent interview for Famitsu they're going for a major overhaul of their server structure and not just an "improvement". Indeed if the translation is correct they are rather saying "last year was shit, we're gonna try making it gud".
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,860
    This would seem like mighty fine info to be released in English... maybe tomorrow or after the holiday on Tuesday.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "I'll be honest, I don't know why you hang out in Nintendo threads. You seem to hate everything they do." - Po Pimpus
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,504 mod
    I'd prefer to see a legitimate translation before jumping the gun on anything
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 7,287
    Translation sez

    All who live are born to die

    True Capcom way!!
  • Cereal and MilkCereal and Milk Best Breakfast Combo! Joined: Posts: 150
    Capcom owes me some points. They deranked me to rookie when I was an ultra gold and won a few games as "rookie". I then got my rank back, however, Well.... those points didnt count.
    I only play charge characters =/
  • Cereal and MilkCereal and Milk Best Breakfast Combo! Joined: Posts: 150
    and no i did not rage quit. I got deranked in between a run back
    I only play charge characters =/
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited January 30
    90% of the people I play online don't use the training stage. I think the stages with more going on don't help the rollback situation. Add in shit pc's/wireless Internet and you've got yourself a mess.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • Flacko_aliFlacko_ali Joined: Posts: 265
    Every time i get into ranked its terrible connection even 5bar only
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