Net code discussion. Rollback confirmed!

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  • KwyjiboKwyjibo Joined: Posts: 476
    RandomBS wrote: »


    So capcom didn't even develop kagemusha, they outsourced it? That just makes not licensing GGPO for the game even fucking stupider.
    Isn't it the same netcode they used for SFxT? I didn't play that game, so idk.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,745
    He's probably been sitting in that seat waiting on someone joining for an hour.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,684
    RandomBS wrote: »


    So capcom didn't even develop kagemusha, they outsourced it? That just makes not licensing GGPO for the game even fucking stupider.



    Here's a pic of their "clients", as you can see its a bunch of low rent shovelware trash + SFV. For some reason capcom thought these guys were good enough for their flagship release.

    I am literally almost speechless.

    The fuck does capcom even do anymore? It's as if the only thing they probably did was make and design the characters.

    Like for real who in the fuck made the UI? That asshole needs to get caned.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • spliffy_bazspliffy_baz Joined: Posts: 155
    edited March 2016
    devastat wrote: »
    You will always decrease input lag if you remove v-sync (and get screen tearing), but since the tournament version uses v-sync why would you do that? You want the game to feel consistent and your timings to be as close as possible when you play it offline, online and in a tournament.
    PS4's Input Lag has now been done by DisplayLag. It is atrocious and ranks below all fighters and sits with the Racing Games.. http://www.displaylag.com/video-game-input-lag-database/
    So bad netcode combined with the worst input lag of any modern fighting game is what you get with SF5. Offline it has insane input lag let alone with teleporting rollbacks occurring online all the time.
  • ShumabotShumabot Joined: Posts: 261
    Before people get too angry outsourcing online connectivity and network maintenance is industry standard with games like this and doing a cross platform rollback netcode was probably well outside of Capcoms expertise. I don't think the netcode is really the problem, I think their garbage network maintenance and underdeveloping for their high ambitions is the big culprit.
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,057
    Dime_x wrote: »

    I am literally almost speechless.

    The fuck does capcom even do anymore? It's as if the only thing they probably did was make and design the characters.

    Like for real who in the fuck made the UI? That asshole needs to get caned.

    You will love this comment: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/10688406/#Comment_10688406
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • drskulldrskull maximum Joined: Posts: 252
    You cant confirm and react to counter hits with rollback. some characters rely on counter hits to confirm into combos (laura for example). "Counter Hit" message appears in the blink of an eye when you have a bad connection. frustrating.
    lost in the beat
  • KwyjiboKwyjibo Joined: Posts: 476
    drskull wrote: »
    You cant confirm and react to counter hits with rollback. some characters rely on counter hits to confirm into combos (laura for example). "Counter Hit" message appears in the blink of an eye when you have a bad connection. frustrating.

    There is no perfect netcode, there will always be something that doesn't work like it's supposed to online. Maybe designing the game with the online play and balance over local play and balance in mind from the start can solve this problem, bit I don't think that is the right approach for an SF game.
  • purbeastpurbeast Joined: Posts: 4,759
    Since everyone on this forum apparently thinks they are developers, I'll just post a link to my reply in the other thread about that tweet.

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/10688729/#Comment_10688729

    It's crazy how the uniformed can spread so much misinformation so quick and how quickly everyone take it as gospel. The internet is so dumb.
  • ShumabotShumabot Joined: Posts: 261
    drskull wrote: »
    You cant confirm and react to counter hits with rollback. some characters rely on counter hits to confirm into combos (laura for example). "Counter Hit" message appears in the blink of an eye when you have a bad connection. frustrating.

    You can't do that with input delay netcode either. Let's just accept that with a bad connection you can't do those kinds of things regardless of the style of netcode.
  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,175
    Capcom developed the netcode themselves, check Dantarion's tweets further on. They bought a network system but those guys didn't develop the netcode, Capcom did. There's a difference.

    Also the netcode is hot fucking garbage and I can't play the game at all because every game is rollback city despite my computer being a boss & my network being a boss. Run the game on max settings without a sweat, 54d 6u, no packet loss, no jitter, no buffer bloat, great ping/latency. Shit's driving me crazy because the actual game itself is awesome but every online match I play, every hit I connect with an opponent gets rolled back into a block, or every block is rolled back into a hit for a dropped combo, every throw turns into a tech half way through the animation and dashes are teleports. God dammit.
    You can use BBCode in your post. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • KwyjiboKwyjibo Joined: Posts: 476
    edited March 2016
    fischbs wrote: »
    Capcom developed the netcode themselves, check Dantarion's tweets further on. They bought a network system but those guys didn't develop the netcode, Capcom did. There's a difference.

    Also the netcode is hot fucking garbage and I can't play the game at all because every game is rollback city despite my computer being a boss & my network being a boss. Run the game on max settings without a sweat, 54d 6u, no packet loss, no jitter, no buffer bloat, great ping/latency. Shit's driving me crazy because the actual game itself is awesome but every online match I play, every hit I connect with an opponent gets rolled back into a block, or every block is rolled back into a hit for a dropped combo, every throw turns into a tech half way through the animation and dashes are teleports. God dammit.

    The netcode isn't perfect, but I'm convinced the biggest problem has to do with the matchmaking. I play with a few people that I've played other fighters with and the netcode is solid, even 1000 miles away from each other. Then I go to matchmaking and I get loads of teleporting. Even setting it to 5 bar only is a crapshoot. Sometimes the connections are flawless, other times they are horrid.
  • Trife88Trife88 GHOSTFACE WAIFUS Joined: Posts: 7,583
    If they can't fix netcode, for the love of Christ just add in a comment that says "Bad Connection [Insert Chibi Sad Face Ono Emoji]

    Tired of feeling like an asshole after kicking people or just holding forward during a match.
    Street Fighter V is the best game of our generation.
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    edited March 2016
    Kwyjibo wrote: »
    DeathGun wrote: »



    Basically, Capcom inserted a ton of input lag in its game, probably in order to hide the online lag better. Thats why we have poor footsies in this game: due the lack of ability from capcom to program the netcode better.

    The video makes things confusion at times but its easy to nitpick the information we want, and its also easy to understand why we cant do what he suggests and to force the Vsync off: we will have to deal with it in the tournaments (PS4) and we need to train with the same configuration we are going to compete.

    Now Im curious about the windowed mode of the game in PC. If it turns the V-sync off or not if your desktop's v-sync is set to off.

    Basically, it's like if GGPO didn't have the option to select the input delay and instead was fixed at 3 or 4 frames.

    I've been saying since it came out that they need to add the option to choose the input delay. It's not necessarily a problem with the netcode, it's them not including a feature that should be there. It baffles me that they wouldn't copy GGPO's model down to a tee, since it is the best we have for fighting games and people seem to be very happy with it.

    The v-sync option should be there too, but that's a different issue.

    Your post got me thinking.

    This game was obviously designed with a set input lag number in mind, let's say for argument's sake that's 7 frames. That fact probably won't change unfortunately, so the game should always be shooting for that by any means necessary at all times.

    Example: Playing online with v-sync off gets you 10 frames? Have the game tell you that and give you the option to kill v-sync on the fly to hit that 7.

    My logic is hardware wise the PS4 is the weak link but it's also the tournament standard so the PC version should always be trying to match it as perfectly as possible (unless events and stuff wanna drop PS4, so basically when pigs fly).
    AceKombat wrote: »


    "...infinitely better" - SRK. No other opinions matter. Only facts.

    Maybe the supporters of SFV netcode here can go tell him to shut up and that his opinions don't matter, and that he needs facts.

    It's having an issue but it is better and just because you want to play laggy style it doesn't mean he does. I'm willing to bet PR Balrog doesn't wanna play in shitty lag-o-land like you do, he just wants matchmaking improved, the alt-tab trick fixed, setting your delay manually, ping numbers, stuff like that.

    But cool, nice cherry picked argument.
  • drskulldrskull maximum Joined: Posts: 252
    edited March 2016
    how do you alt-tab in ps4? seems like a legit tactic, I need to learn it.
    lost in the beat
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,057
    edited March 2016
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    It's having an issue but it is better and just because you want to play laggy style it doesn't mean he does. I'm willing to bet PR Balrog doesn't wanna play in shitty lag-o-land like you do, he just wants matchmaking improved, the alt-tab trick fixed, setting your delay manually, ping numbers, stuff like that.

    But cool, nice cherry picked argument.

    Congratulations, you have not even listened to a word I said about liking GGPO in ST or HD Remix online experience from ANY of my previous comments.

    You can keep insisting that I want delay netcode (if lag-o-land = delay netcode to you), but I'm over a game where I have to even think if the players I face in ranked knows that it's causing lag on my end. It's also not fun winning the matches and wondering if it was on the bad side for my opponent. Anything that has a "one-sided" problem is bound to be garbage because now online matches have more RNG involved (more like Random Network Generator). These weird "RNG" moments not only occur in rare spikes (like the very early days of the USFIV PC port), it's throughout every round after the 10 second mark and it stays that way (rough guess on the timer number).

    Explain to me why two Texas players I played from SFIV to USFIV were satisfactory back then, but now shows one-sided rollback on my end (while being fine on their end?) Explain to me why a Canadian player I face (same situation with SFIV above) now shows one-sided rollback on their end, but plays perfect on my end? PS: We even did video proof to test out. No placebo effect took place at the time of the match.

    Now... do you REALLY feel with that one-sided problem that this is better than SFIV online experience? I believe almost half of the players I got in contact with that are from old-time Peaceful Jay players (or currently some as PXG members) dislike and even joked on ragequitting if it ever teleports. I haven't heard one player said it's a better online experience in the long run, only that it's much better on "specific" occasions.

    You know what I wanted? EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED (minus the ping numbers part... because really, do you HONESTLY believe that will solve matchmaking problems if "5" bar connections can become trash? Majority of the casual players won't even easily follow how it works nor care about ping numbers... that's not going to help improve match-making at all). You didn't even get to mention the one-sided rollback. Have you ever even experienced it? Do you know what that feels like? Do you know how it's like knowing the opponent you faced could of been lagging and not playing at their optimal performance?

    You know what's sad? I doubt SFV will undergo any sort of fixing for the upcoming March update. When you have a company that said that they were well prepared for rage quitters, only that the way they plan to handle it is absolutely flawed in every single way possible... that's a bad sign.

    Edit: About the ping topic... I can accept if they have a diagram that shows how the ping system works... there isn't a defined legend that shows what 5 bars really means in ping terms. Still... what's the reason for 5 bar connections being potentially trash? Long story short, I want good rollback netcode/online experience (GGPO)... NOT somewhat okay with some flaws (SFV online).
    Post edited by AceKombat on
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,199
    t.
    AceKombat wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    It's having an issue but it is better and just because you want to play laggy style it doesn't mean he does. I'm willing to bet PR Balrog doesn't wanna play in shitty lag-o-land like you do, he just wants matchmaking improved, the alt-tab trick fixed, setting your delay manually, ping numbers, stuff like that.

    But cool, nice cherry picked argument.

    Congratulations, you have not even listened to a word I said about liking GGPO in ST or HD Remix online experience from ANY of my previous comments.

    You can keep insisting that I want delay netcode (if lag-o-land = delay netcode to you), but I'm over a game where I have to even think if the players I face in ranked knows that it's causing lag on my end. It's also not fun winning the matches and wondering if it was on the bad side for my opponent. Anything that has a "one-sided" problem is bound to be garbage because now online matches have more RNG involved (more like Random Network Generator). These weird "RNG" moments not only occur in rare spikes (like the very early days of the USFIV PC port), it's throughout every round after the 10 second mark and it stays that way (rough guess on the timer number).

    Explain to me why two Texas players I played from SFIV to USFIV were satisfactory back then, but now shows one-sided rollback on my end (while being fine on their end?) Explain to me why a Canadian player I face (same situation with SFIV above) now shows one-sided rollback on their end, but plays perfect on my end? PS: We even did video proof to test out. No placebo effect took place at the time of the match.

    Now... do you REALLY feel with that one-sided problem that this is better than SFIV online experience? I believe almost half of the players I got in contact with that are from old-time Peaceful Jay players (or currently some as PXG members) dislike and even joked on ragequitting if it ever teleports. I haven't heard one player said it's a better online experience in the long run, only that it's much better on "specific" occasions.

    You know what I wanted? EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED (minus the ping numbers part... because really, do you HONESTLY believe that will solve matchmaking problems if "5" bar connections can become trash? Majority of the casual players won't even easily follow how it works nor care about ping numbers... that's not going to help improve match-making at all). You didn't even get to mention the one-sided rollback. Have you ever even experienced it? Do you know what that feels like? Do you know how it's like knowing the opponent you faced could of been lagging and not playing at their optimal performance?

    You know what's sad? I doubt SFV will undergo any sort of fixing for the upcoming March update. When you have a company that said that they were well prepared for rage quitters, only that the way they plan to handle it is absolutely flawed in every single way possible... that's a bad sign.

    Edit: About the ping topic... I can accept if they have a diagram that shows how the ping system works... there isn't a defined legend that shows what 5 bars really means in ping terms. Still... what's the reason for 5 bar connections being potentially trash? Long story short, I want good rollback netcode/online experience (GGPO)... NOT somewhat okay with some flaws (SFV online).

    Must have mistaken you for that other guy banging on about SFIV's amazing netcode. My bad.
  • GeckolimusGeckolimus Joined: Posts: 155
    I think if you play on ps4 just stick with ps4. My matches with ps4 native are very good. Cross platform they are mostly unplayable. My location is UK with 40mb dl and 10 mb ul.
    Bar cross platform the performance of this net code is better than sf4 no question.

    Any idea why cross platform performance is so bad?
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    I've noticed zero issues cross-platform.

    My biggest increase in improvement came from setting the performance requirement to 5.

    You might notice a disproportionate amount of teleporting due to people punting the lag your way... something only possible on PC.

    Ultimately until they fix the way they handle dividing the amount of rollback (currently they don't seem to), the issue is just going to persist regardless.
  • KwyjiboKwyjibo Joined: Posts: 476
    qspec wrote: »
    You might notice a disproportionate amount of teleporting due to people punting the lag your way... something only possible on PC.
    PS4 players will notice a disproportionate amount of teleporting too, it will just be up the game who gets it.
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    I'm mentioning that PS4 players might experience more teleporting simply because the PC player has the ability to send it to the PS4 player.

    I don't think that either inherently get more lag. Nor do I think that there is inherently more lag between the two consoles than on similar consoles.

    I'm just saying that since as PC player can send the lag to the PS4 player, it will *seem* like the connection is what is causing the issue.
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,057
    qspec wrote: »
    I'm mentioning that PS4 players might experience more teleporting simply because the PC player has the ability to send it to the PS4 player.

    I don't think that either inherently get more lag. Nor do I think that there is inherently more lag between the two consoles than on similar consoles.

    I'm just saying that since as PC player can send the lag to the PS4 player, it will *seem* like the connection is what is causing the issue.

    Those PC players need a reality check if they figure that playing to win involves Alt+Tab. It's just as bad as rage-quitting, no respect.

    I did hear some players say the Alt+Tab situation is hit/miss, and sometimes may not cause a problem (probably depends on how the game is setup [windowed mode as example maybe]). Doesn't prevent it from being an issue though, because it absolutely is a problem.
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,175
    edited March 2016
    My alt tab doesn't fix any desync. Is my computer just too amazing?
    You can use BBCode in your post. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,057
    fischbs wrote: »
    My alt tab doesn't fix any desync. Is my computer just too amazing?

    I never tried it... well wait I think I did try it against the Texas player once by accident (look at FB messages from him), and yea it turned out that match was good for me surprisingly... had to even message him how it went for him.
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • qspecqspec Joined: Posts: 301
    I did it once to test it, and it seemed to work that time.

    In any case, the point is not whether or not PC players should or shouldn't be doing it. The point is just that there is likely a perception that cross platform is less stable because of it.

    Like I said a few posts up, until the way rollback is handled gets fixed, we are all better off setting the connection requirement to 5. Cross platform in my fairly limited experience has almost zero influence on the connection with the possible exceptions of the alt-tab issue on PC and the disproportionate amount of wifi on PS4.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,717 mod
    I've been doing more ranked lately and usually do pretty good setting to the connection search to 4-5. This is playing on Master Race Sony of course.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • GeckolimusGeckolimus Joined: Posts: 155
    I've been doing more ranked lately and usually do pretty good setting to the connection search to 4-5. This is playing on Master Race Sony of course.

    Cross platform or no cross platform?
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,745
    There's no doubt PS4 to PS4 is where it's at. How is PC to PC? I'll be able to test next week. Ill have both versions.
  • GeckolimusGeckolimus Joined: Posts: 155
    There's no doubt PS4 to PS4 is where it's at. How is PC to PC? I'll be able to test next week. Ill have both versions.

    What is your internet specs? Will be interested in your feedback and if you can do some cross platform experience too it'll be nice.
  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,175
    I only search for 5 connections and it's still a tossup in terms of desync. The desync is a real killer. I face hunterxninja Ryu with that south korean flag and the dude is desync city for me but I can tell he's feeling himself in the match, makes me feel like a fat scrub, those are the breaks tho. Dude is my gatekeeper. Every time I'm getting somewhere he comes and chips my points down.
    You can use BBCode in your post. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • KwyjiboKwyjibo Joined: Posts: 476
    There's no doubt PS4 to PS4 is where it's at. How is PC to PC? I'll be able to test next week. Ill have both versions.

    Generally fine. Most of my laggy matches are PC to PS4(I'm on PC). I concluded that it was the PS4 players using wifi, but maybe it is an issue with the crossplay.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,717 mod
    Geckolimus wrote: »
    I've been doing more ranked lately and usually do pretty good setting to the connection search to 4-5. This is playing on Master Race Sony of course.

    Cross platform or no cross platform?

    Same platform is pretty good. Cross platform usually feels alright too. Just long ass loading times waiting for the world to bring PS4 and PC together.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • ZenisideZeniside Joined: Posts: 2,987
    The match-making does not even make sense sometimes. Today and yesterday it matched me up with a few players with China flag and they were the worst matches I have experienced so far. The game slowed down to what seemed to be 5 FPS on both sides. We looked like a bunch of idiots flailing about pressing buttons trying to hit each other.

    It is set to 5 bar.
  • appomoappomo uupps Joined: Posts: 4,305
    i start to hate the fucking netcode...rollback my ass when you hit someone just for it to get denied -.-
    paired with the shitty matchmaking system i really wonder where the "improvement" over usf4 is...i cant see it.

    good matches worked there flaweless too...and in the bad matches you could adapt.
  • purbeastpurbeast Joined: Posts: 4,759
    The most flawless match on SF4 still have noticeable input delay. The most flawless match in SF5 doesn't. That's about as simple as it gets.

    Bad matches are pointless to even compare. Shit is still shit.

    Matchmaking in SF4 was definitely better than SF5 though.
  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,207
    It's weird for me to hear when people say they have problems with the matchmaking with it matching them to unbalanced ranks. For me I don't have that problem. Matching ranks works fine for me. It's the regional match making that I've had problems with. I took a list of countries I've regularly connected to and it's mostly China, Kuwait, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Denmark, Mexico, Canada, and probably a few more that I've missed. Maybe like 1 out of every 20 matches I play is a US connection and it will be just as bad as if I was connected to any of the above countries. As I've mentioned before here on the forums, this was not an issue I was having the week the game released. Been having it since week 2 onward.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,175
    edited March 2016
    purbeast wrote: »
    The most flawless match on SF4 still have noticeable input delay. The most flawless match in SF5 doesn't. That's about as simple as it gets.

    Bad matches are pointless to even compare. Shit is still shit.

    Matchmaking in SF4 was definitely better than SF5 though.

    what matchmaking LOL

    @Kwyjibo I think it has to do with the hardware of the PS4 as well as potentially wifi. I think I get smooth PS4 matches on some stages, but more graphically intense ones (Forgotten Waterfall seems to be bad in some regards) cause more frame drops on a PS4 and drive the desync. I think wifi also drives the desync. Just such a weird issue. Hope Capcom gets it together, game is fun as hell when the netcode works, really love it. Debating whether or not to keep vsync on or off so I can have faster input or consistent input for when I go to tournaments and locals that are on PS4s. Considering how well this game is designed I find it impossible to believe Capcom didn't factor in input delay to their design, that's probably why hitstun is so heavy, why throw ranges are a little short, etc.
    You can use BBCode in your post. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,745
    Geckolimus wrote: »
    There's no doubt PS4 to PS4 is where it's at. How is PC to PC? I'll be able to test next week. Ill have both versions.

    What is your internet specs? Will be interested in your feedback and if you can do some cross platform experience too it'll be nice.

    My internet is def average in comparison to the world, but more than enough for gaming. I was wondering about a test signing in on PC then in on my PS4 then trying to test different things against each system, but would this even work? I'm not sure how a game sharing the same connection would "test" anything.

    I'm sure I can't be the only one with the game on both.
  • andeRK83andeRK83 tiGeR! Joined: Posts: 389
    edited March 2016
    anyone getting random disconnects since the patch?
    Before the patch I never had any issues.
    I've lost connection to the server in two games since yesterday.
    PSN: andeRK83
    SFV Tag: baSick-
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