LS-40 and JLW mods thread (JLW-01 and JL-40W featured)

MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double posterJoined: Posts: 4,837
edited December 2014 in Tech Talk
Disclosure: Paradise has sent me parts at no charge for R&D on my own projects and Paradise also sells some of my products. I've worked side by side with PAS at EVO and also been paid for services rendered to PAS. I've also promoted products made by Jasen Hicks and his company at a booth and convention. I've also been sent a product for R&D collaboration by Jasen Hicks. Just being as transparent as possible here on out, especially as I write articles here and there with parts provided by said parties.

No secret that the JLW is one of my favorite sticks ever. It's an excellent stick, very similar to the LS-40, probably my second favorite stick every. The LS-40 was the first legitimate stick I ever bought after using a MadCatz SE JLF knock off. The JLW was the last stick I've fiddled with out of nearly every Japanese stick on the market. I guess you could say, first love still strong and save the best for last?

As much as I love the LS-40, there was always things that bothered me about it. Spring tension was definitely a step up from the JLF, however, the short shaft mounting on just about any configuration you can think of unless using a S plate on a metal control panel always left me wanting. Aside from that, it's a great stick.

JLW, is pretty much nearly the same as a LS-40. Some minor differences but things the JLW has that the LS-40 lacked was an extended shaft (even longer than JLF) and a nice spring tension you can't find in other Japanese sticks. Basically, JLW fills the gaps that the LS-40 lacked. However, there are some things the LS-40 fills that the JLW doesn't, such as, a more accurate gate and how switches sit on the body are handled.

What's that?

Yeah, so recently I've found myself enjoying little to no switch tension and all spring tension. It makes for a lovely smooth operating stick, something you can't get with a floppy spring and high tension switches. While I still feel high tension switches can be nice, at times, I just want something seriously smooth. This is where Magenta (@armi0024‌ so ready for it) or Zippy 20 gram switches comes into play. On a JLW, this is a very nice set up. You still have good spring tension and little resistance as you hit directions, something you simply can't get with other stick setups.

This lead me to explore modding the JLW, something I didn't really feel a need to do because for the most part, the JLW is an excellent stock lever, more so than just about every other lever on the market.

I'll cover this in detail in posts 3 and 4 of this thread. For now, I'm going to cover a very simple, but effective JLW mod.

The JLW-01

Mod Theory:
So uh, ever think "Hey, I'd love it if the JLW had a PCB!" No? Fuck you then! For serious, it's not something that really crossed my mind either but it's really easy to do.

Tools required:
LS-32-01 PCB
Screw driver

Optional:
Crimpers
Soldering iron
Set of choice switches
Thick gauge wire
.187 quick disconnects

Process:

Not going to take a million pictures for this one because it's pretty straight forward.

If you're like me, you probably despise the LS-32. It's a stumpy short dick lever with a bad pivot. Imagine being a super horny female and LS-32 is the guy who takes you home. You unzip his pants and see a short dick stump, but you let him mount you anyway only to find out his lack of length leaves much to be desired and his girth is a little too wide for most practical purposes. Before you're even done, LS-32 busts a nut and rolls over to fall asleep, leaving you unfulfilled and feeling dirty, knowing the next day he'll tell all his buds what a pimp he is and those dudes will tell everyone in turn how pimping LS-32 tis because he's so old school. Yeah, that's LS-32. But hey, guess what? It's not all bad, even after a night of bad sex not all is lost, because LS-32 left his wallet.

In his wallet is a beautiful PCB ready to use on some real hardware. It's 100% compatible with JLW, easy drop in replacement. It's a tad snug, but works amazingly well. The problem is if you don't like the switches, you're a bit out of luck unless you want to do optional mods to it. The switches are about the same tension as the Sanwa re-branded Zippy switches that come with the JLW.

Behold, for here it be on real hardware. No short dick tree stump girthy levers here, yo!
01.JPG

Optional mods are to desolder the original switches and solder wires to the soldering points, then crimping on quick disconnects for easy switch swapping. I am not interested in tackling this particular mod just yet, but when I do, I will upload pictures and edit this post.

Anyway, once done, enjoy your JLW-01. Makes it a much easier drop in replacement for mass produced sticks. MadCatz SE, Brawl, TvC, and KE sticks will need destructive modding to the case to drop it in because of the mounting plates not fitting. Easy to fix with Dremel.
Post edited by Moonchilde on
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  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    JLW tension mod

    Say whaaaat? Isn't the JLW tense enough? If you have a weighty top like an aluminum top, it actually might not be. You can do this mod to help increase the tension slightly, and it might be enough. It also might no be enough, in which case, you're kind of fucked.

    Mod theory:
    Increase tension on the spring by moving the actuator closer to the pivot in turn compressing the spring further. The more compression placed on a spring, the more tension the spring outputs.

    Tools required:
    Small flat head screw driver
    Dremel with the right bit
    Fiber washers
    

    Process:

    First you will need to buy the washers. These are the exact washers you need, you can get them at Home Depot for about $.70. The SKU is in the upper right corner of the packaging for reference and the measurements to the left. These washers are just about right for adjusting the tension little by little. They're about a mm tall, so perfect for it. You'll want to decide if you want to adjust it by 1 mm or 2 mm. 3 mm can be done but will limit the range of motion the lever can do, making it difficult to use the gate. However, a short throw gate *grumble grumble* would be no problem with a 3 mm tension mod.
    01.JPG

    The inner diameter is not quite wide enough for the JLW shaft. You will need to widen it a bit using the Dremel bit pictured below.
    02.JPG

    On a mid to low speed, Dremel one side of the washer til it's a little wider than the tip of the shaft with the screwdriver groove. Flip the washer around, and then Dremel the other side. This is done because the bit is conical shaped.

    Image for reference:
    03.JPG

    Once Dremel'd, pop off the e-clip with the small flat head and fit the first washer over the end of the shaft so it rests on the top of the actuator. Replace the e-clip partially, just enough to hold the actuator on but not enough that you have to pry it off again. Test out the tension, if you feel you want more, then pop off the e-clip again and fit the second washer over the end of the shaft, rinse repeat.

    Two washers does the job nicely. You can see here the tension mod on the JLW-01 mod.
    04.JPG

    That's all there really is to it. Easy tweak to a great lever.

    Vega edit: Ah yes, why not nylon washers instead of fiber washers? Fiber was available, nylon wasn't. However, at Sutherland's, nylon washers were available. In the case of this mod, the fiber washers were much easier to grind than the nylon ones. The nylon ones would melt at mid-range speeds, and even managed to grind off center. The fiber ones were easier to grind, didn't grind off center, didn't melt at mid-range speeds, and the fiber washers are surprisingly resilient and durable. I wasn't so sure about them lasting, but so far, they're doing the job quite nicely.
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    JL-40W mod version 1 (difficult version)

    This version of the mod is destructive, meaning irreversible, once you modify the parts, there is no going back!

    WARNING: DESTRUCTIVE MOD! TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK!!

    In the first post I discussed a little about the JLW with low force switches, in particular 20 gram Zippy switches. While the stick feels good, there are a few problems I discovered. I tested out the mod on two different JLW levers and both responded with the same issues, so I'm under the impression there are some minor defects to the JLW design.

    On the base of the JLW you will notice below the switches extrusions used to raise the height of the switches. The unfortunate part about this design is that they are not wide, so the switches do not sit level and have slight wiggle room. I believe this causes uneven mounting once the gate is tightened on, causing the problems described below.

    With the 20 gram Zippy switches mounted, I find the JLW to only hit 2 out of 4 directions. Usually a combination of up and right, or left and down. Something similar to that. It is possible to try to correct this using flat washers below the switches to try to evenly distribute the leverage of the switches but this doesn't seem consistent. Also of note, when using Omron 200 gram switches, there aren't engagement issues such as switches not engaging, but rather engaging at different distances. 2 of the switches tend to engage deep, and 2 tend to engage early. This makes for inconsistent play.

    This issue can be slightly corrected by taking the pin-plungers from the stock Matsushita switches that come with the LS-40 and swap them in the Sanwa re-branded Zippy switches that come with the JLW. This makes for an extremely sensitive stick, a bit too sensitive IMO.

    Mod Theory:
    This is where the LS-40 comes into play. I have not had this issue on the LS-40 as I believe it has a simpler mounting design, that being flat against the body and a gate that evenly distributes itself above the switches.

    The two levers are very different, yet also very similar. What do we do? We fuckn' mod it of course!!

    Tools required:
    Drill
    Dremel
    Drill bit of same (or close) diameter as JLW shaft
    Flat Dremel bit for grinding
    Screw driver
    Small flat head screwdriver
    Dowel with smaller diameter than JLW shaft
    80 grit sandpaper
    400 grit sandpaper
    Flat surface
    Cutting mat
    Exacto knife
    Vinyl tape
    Straight edge with mm markings
    Spacers about 1 mm in height
    

    Optional:
    Fiber washers modded to fit shaft (See tension mod)
    

    Process:

    Disassemble both the LS-40 and JLW. Should look something like below.
    01.JPG

    For reference: Below is the LS-40 and JLW actuators, both sitting on top of LS-40 springs. As you can see, the JLW actuator sits higher than the LS-40 actuator. This is because the bell isn't as deep on the JLW. I will illustrate later why this is a problem on this particular version of the mod.

    Ignore that this actuator is already modified. Pretend it's stock. If you don't have an imagination and can't fathom well...
    02.JPG

    So, now you see how the actuators function different based on their designs. What we need to do now is modify the LS-40 actuator. This means cutting the height down and widening the hole so it can slide over the JLW shaft. Oh good fucking lord, don't be that way, get your mind out of the gutter!!

    Use the drill bit to cut the hole wider. If you don't have one, then wrap the 80 grit sandpaper around the dowel and twist, *not* slide, the actuator around the sandpaper. This will evenly grind the hole wider. If you slide in a sawing motion, you risk having an uneven hole. If you are adventurous, you can try to use a Dremel, but you risk an inaccurate cutting. If you don't have a dowel, use the shaft of your screw driver. If you don't have that, then you won't be modding so get lost!

    IF you decide to Dremel, use a low speed, and move the Dremel in a circular motion to evenly cut the hole wider.

    The easiest way is to use a drill bit as wide or almost as wide as the JLW shaft. Then finish it off with 80 grit wrapped around a dowel and twisting the actuator for a loose, but close fit.

    Once you get that done, cut a strip of vinyl tape and place it on the cutting mat. You have 4 options. Cut a strip 10 mm wide, another at 9 mm, and a final strip at 8 mm. IMO, it's best to use 8 mm because you can easily tweak the tension of the mod using the optional fiber washers. See tension mod in post 2. See the below image.
    03.JPG

    This was originally cut at 9 mm but I wanted to drop to 8.

    *Note: I can't remember if 8 was too short though, as it could cause issues getting caught on the gate if it's too short. Start with 10, and if you want, work your way to 8. 10 will be pretty tense though, but if you like stiff levers then by all means. It's actually pretty good feeling. Worst case, 8 is too short and you use a fiber washer to space it back up to 9 mm. No big deal. You can also combine washers below the gate if you like the tension of 8 mm, just in case... Ahem.

    After getting the strip(s) cut, wrap them evenly around the actuator. You will use this as a marker for when to stop grinding down the top of the actuator. Use the Dremel and the flat grinding bit to start cutting. Once you meet the tape, check that it is even and there is no actuator poking above the tape. If there is, gently grind away until the whole circumference is even with the tape. You should now have a fairly accurately modified actuator.

    The next step is optional, but you can also grind away at the inside of the bell to fit the JLW spring a bit more loose. You can fit the JLW spring in a stock LS-40 actuator, but it is a tight fit and may cause a little grinding as the spring compresses when you move the lever. You can do this on slow Dremel speed and carefully moving the actuator around the bit in a circular motion, cutting evenly.

    After all your cutting is made, place a piece of 400 grit on a flat surface and sand the top of the actuator smooth. Remove the vinyl tape. Wrap the 400 grit around the dowel or screwdriver shaft and sand the hole for the shaft so that it is smooth. We don't like no rough holes here! Wash any dust off and dry.

    If you widen the hole a little too much, don't worry. As long as there isn't too much play, the actuator is still ok. The spring will do a lot of work keeping it in place. However, if you really do make it too wide, then you done fucked up. I warned you!!

    It should look like this when you are done. Left is the new actuator, right is stock.
    04.JPG

    For reference, this is the LS-40 and JLW spring flanges next to each other. What? That's not stock you say? Oh, what's that? A failed LS-40 experiment to the left? No! Okay, I fucked up, but I did it for science, bitches!!

    You can see they're roughly the same. You can use the stock JLW spring flange for this mod. Saves you some grinding and hole widening eh? Eh??
    05.JPG

    For reference, a LS-40 spring on a JLW spring flange. Eventually, once @armi0024‌ gets those LS-40 springs (which will be compatible with LS-32, JLW, and LS-40) this mod will most likely be deprecated. Tension mod is still useful since you can tweak.
    06.JPG

    Below you will see the LS-40 shaft vs the JLW shaft, with a modified LS-40 pivot. As you can see, below the pivot they are about the same length, however you should notice that the JLW shaft leaves little room for the e-clip to move, so you end up with less space for the parts below the pivot, about 2 mm. This is why the actuator mod was important.

    For the pivot, grind the hole exactly as you did before. You want it wide enough to fit over the shaft. You don't need it to be particularly loose, you can get away with it being snug. Snug is fine, you don't want any play while the shaft is in the pivot. That shit needs to be tight, like a virgin. Like, what every man wants in life you know? If it gets too loose, then you end up with a floppy shaft, and everyone hates floppy shaft action. Ask any women, they don't, and guys with floppy shaft action wait wtf are we discussing again? Oh right. Well, if you fuck up here, this isn't like the actuator. You can cut a piece of paper the same height as the pivot or some of the tape you have and use it as a spacer between the shaft and the pivot. Remember, it can be snug, and the pivot shouldn't slide up or down the shaft, so this is still salvageable should you fuck up.

    Now, if you done fucked up so bad that even that can't fix it, well, I can't help you there. I WARNED YOU!!

    Interesting note for people who are LS-40 virgins: A Seimitsu shaft is integral to the LS-40!! There is a spacer built into it that space the pivot from the shaft, it's about 2 mm. If you want to use your shaft bare (ohforfuckssake) you can get a 2 mm spacer that does the job the same. If you do not use a shaft or spacer, then your LS-40 will mount 2 mm too short! Also worth noting, the LS-40 can't be used without it, because the actuator will get caught in the gate. However, the LS-40-01 can, because the gate is slightly raised because of the PCB. It tends to be floppy, and no one likes a floppy... well you get the idea. An alternative for the LS-40 is to use spacers between the gate and the switches around the screws. About 1 mm will do it. You'll still have a floppy LS-40 though...
    07.JPG

    The below image shows what happens when you use the JLW actuator. As you can see, it sits too high above the levers, and without proper gate spacing between the switches and the gate, will also get caught in the gate. Note the spacers use in the upper left. Each one is about 1 mm so that's why there is 2.
    08.JPG

    There she be, LS-40 actuator fit to the JLW shaft.
    09.JPG

    As you can see, because of the deeper bell, we don't have the issues of the JLW actuator. It will clearly hit the levers and not get stuck in the gate. Also worth noting: Rather than using the smaller nylon spacers between the gate and the switches where the screws go, I used neoprene washers under the switches. This gets everything to the right height as well, and makes it easier for the bell to hit the levers on most common switches you could drop in. Matushita has wider levers, unlike common switches, so that's another reason the bell distance and height are important. Version 2 goes more into this...
    10.JPG

    Shaft deep in that pivot action shot... dirty.
    11.JPG

    And, the shaft cover placed on the shaft. Actually, with it below the mounting plate, no way for dust to get in there, the LS-40 is the only stick I know of that can do this. Shaft cover, and bat top, and we're all done!!
    12.JPG

    So, how does it feel?

    Well, it feels pretty damn good. The LS-40 has a great pivot and is nice and smooth. The extra length of the JLW shaft helps a lot in mounting, especially in a wood panel. The base keeps the switches accurate with no room for movement, unlike the JLW. Good tension on it from the JLW spring, and easily tweaked using the tension mods.

    Is it accurate? Yeah, pretty accurate, depending on how well you modify your parts. As I suspected about the JLW, the issues do not exist when using the LS-40 and to top it off, all directions engage the same as each other. Performance is awesome. I would definitely recommend if you have some spare parts lying around.

    On the other hand, the -01 mod does not have the engagement issues that loose switches has. I think it's partly because of how snug it is, and the fact the PCB is keeping it "floating" to a degree. Whichever mod you choose is up to you, but the -01 mod is far simpler and easier to do. However, if you do the optional mod for the -01 mod, then you will be back to the loose switch problem, and will have to find some way to compensate.

    Do I need to buy a JLW to do this mod? Yes and no. You can get the shafts from PAS and mod your LS-40 to fit it, however, you won't get the spring. Once the springs come out, then all you'll need to buy is the spring and shaft and do some destructive modding.

    So what if the LS-40 had a longer shaft and a tighter spring? Would you still love the JLW? Hmm, good question. I think if those came out, the JLW could be retired, which is looking very likely considering JLW is no longer in Sanwa's catalogs and production seems to be done. They've moved on the JLF.

    Well, what if the LS-40 gets retired? Seimitsu seems to be focusing on LS-58 and LS-60! Another good question. In this case, I will write up a quick JLW conversion based off a knock off PAS sells. It won't be as nice as a real JLW (99% cosmetic differences) but it will be fairly close. I'm also guessing that whatever issues the JLW has, the knock offs will have as well. On the other hand, Zippyy sticks, while not as high quality as LS-32, can be used as a base as well... and the pivots on them are more like LS-40 even though the rest of the stick is more like LS-32. All this and more will be written about in an upcoming knock off article.

    There is a version 2 to this, one I tossed around and wasn't too sure of. Because I done fucked up on some my "tweaking" I ended up with a floppy shaft so uh... version 2 is actually what I'm using. I actually like version 2 better, it's far easier and non-destructive. I will detail that sometime later. Until then, I'm out!
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    @d3v can you delete? Thank you!
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    In light of recent events, if Focus Attack wants to use this thread as a source for tech support, I would greatly appreciate it if the original thread (this thread if for whatever reason beyond normal common sense there is any doubt as to which thread I'm specifying...) was posted as a response rather than an off site tech support article linking back to the thread. I am not posting this information to be abused freely, but in the spirit of community sharing.

    This means:

    If someone asks "are there JLW mods?" and you link to an off site support article, the original article must be included in addition to the off site one.

    - or -

    The original article is used in place of the off site support article.

    Thank you.
  • NENDONENDO I will meditate and then destroy you. Joined: Posts: 3,346
    Alright! Good stuff as always. That 01 mod is crucial.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    Updated.
  • manbehindthewiresmanbehindthewires Consider yourself lightly, consider the world deeply Joined: Posts: 947
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    Imagine being a super horny female and LS-32 is the guy who takes you home...

    Best analogy ever.

    SFV: Chun Li [CFN: thewires / manbehindthewires]
    Third Strike: Alex/Ibuki [Fightcade: MBTW]
    Here to learn.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    Nice info, the jlw is still on my list of levers to try. Sucks that it's discontinued now.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • emphaticemphatic Joined: Posts: 478
    I need to try the -01 mod on my JLW. Very clever.
    I love shmups and never play fighting games.
    Here's my Guwange stick: http://www.emphatic.se/?p=197
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,366
    That Dust washer mod for the LS-40. God Like.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,366


    Here something I just tried with the LS-40

    While installing some switched from a Sanwa JLW (Sanwa-MS-0-2P) in a LS-40 I did notice a few things
    There is a plastic lip or edge that gets in the way of the COM tab of each switch, I trim some of the plastic away with some side cutters.
    20141213_230948_zps5331b804.jpg


    The other thing I found was if you have some extra screws the LS-32 and LS-40 use to attach the joystick body to the mount plate, or extra screws used to secure the subgate
    (you need a total of 4 matching screws)

    20141213_230035_zps58ec1840.jpg
    You can put the four screws in the larger holes (the screw holes the screws for the subgate uses) as you see here.
    You can add the screws to further secure the gate and the individual micro switches in place.

    Reasons why I said you shouldn't mix screw types.
    The gate screws are the standard Philips screws, while the mount plate uses flanged screws.

    Mixing screw types will give you an uneven installation, which means the gate will not be tighten as evenly
    which means the switches could all be uneven.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    For the LS-40-01 I cut those lips off with a toenail clipper, they were getting in the way of the ground terminals for the switches when doing a loose switch mod. It was a long time ago so I'm not sure I went over that mod.

    Version 2 coming later tonight.
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 418
    I am way too in love with the stock JLW to touch it. However, with this kind of information I might not be able to resist trying out a few things. Good stuff Moonchilde!
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    LS-40 loose switch mod

    The LS-40 series can accept loose switches. To use loose switches you have to drop in micros with terminals at the tip of corner, rather than the more common style you can get your hands on easier.

    Mod theory:
    Alter the LS-40 body to accept common and easily obtainable switch alternatives.

    Tools reqiured:
    Toe nail clippers (the large kind)
    Razor blade
    

    Optional:
    Dremel
    - or -
    400 grit sandpaper
    - and maybe -
    Something flat
    

    Process:

    Remove the switches. Take the toenail clippers and cut off the tab. Use the razor to cut or shave the left over part off so the body is now flat. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRY TO CUT THE ENTIRE TAB OFF WITH THE RAZOR! Your safety is not my responsibility even though it may concern me to a degree. If you cut yourself in attempts to do so, that is on you. I warned you!

    Alternative method:

    Use a Dremel grinding bit to grind it flat.

    When you are done, it should look similar to the below image.
    01.JPG

    Now you can place any loose switch of almost any type easily on the LS-40. See below for an example of a Zippy switch mounted on the body.
    02.JPG

    Optional modding: If you care about cosmetic appearance, you can use the 400 grit sandpaper to smooth it out. If you worry about creating an uneven surface, use something flat to wrap the sandpaper around.
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    JL-40W version 2 (the easy version)

    This was how I originally was going to tackle the issues described in the first post and the third post, but I wanted to see how version 1 felt just because. I did it for science! The version 2 alternative has benefits to be considered as well.

    Mod theory:
    An alternative, easy to do, and non-destructive version of the first JL-40W mod posted. Benefits also include smoother lever action, less pivot friction, and slightly less engage and less throw.

    Tools required:
    Screwdriver
    8 neoprene washers
    2 fiber washers
    Lubricant
    Tension mod fiber washer alteration required!
    

    Optional:
    If you are going to use the LS-40 loose switch mod then you need to do it first
    Thick gauge wires
    Soldering iron
    Wire crimpers
    .187 quick disconnects
    LS-40-01 PCB
    

    Process:

    Disassemble your JLW and LS-40 levers. You need all the parts from both sticks as pictured below.
    01.JPG

    If you need to know exactly what parts I used for the fiber and neoprene washers, they are pictured below. SKU numbers on top right, measurements on top left.
    02.JPG

    In my case, I did the LS-40 loose switch mod first. Once you have that complete, lube the fuck out of the pivot pocket.

    Product Placement time! Which lube to use? Whatever works really! After having used the Dow Corning Molykote I personally find Super Lube synthetic grease with Syncolon PTFE a superior grease. I've been using it for a couple of years now and nothing has served me better. Oh, btw, what does that PTFE stand for? What most people know as Teflon! Syncolon is simply Super Lube's fancy naming for their brand of it. This shit is pretty smooth action, and actually more readily available at places like Harbor Freight (where I purchased mine) than Molykote or Shin-Etsu. It's about $5 for a 3 oz tube. It's lasted a long time and I've lubed several levers.

    It has all the safety properties of silicone grease and has not been harmful to my plastic parts at all over the years. Shit has plastic in it for crying out loud! TEFLON bitches!

    Super Lube, pay me!!
    03.JPG

    Lube the entire pivot, inside, around the flat top, and the smooth rounded lower half. You want a little lube on the top because the shaft has a stop that rests against it. As the pivot and shaft spins, you don't want it wearing it down. Place it on your shaft and slide it into the pivot pocket of the LS-40 body. Oh shit man, this mod is over, I'm so stupid. It doesn't fit!!

    Wait a sex! Remember that bit about less friction? The contact points of this pivot are the lower tip. The rest of the pivot won't be contacting the body. I'm stealing HORI's marketing idea here, low friction mod! You can see it pictured below. I'm going to stop writing this because it should be obvious now, whatever I write above a picture is about what is pictured below. If you can't read and get lost on what step I'm on, you shouldn't be modding and GTFO.
    04.JPG

    Lube the lower half of the shaft. Place the rest of the JLW parts on the shaft, but do not put the clip on yet. You have to follow the steps in the tension mod at this point. Once you do, place 2 washers on top of the actuator and then clip it on.
    05.JPG

    Now you need four neoprene washers. Place them in the exact spots I've placed mine. If you don't, you will have leverage issues when screwing the gate on. I warned you!
    06.JPG

    Close up of the washer placement. You want the edge of the washer to be at the lip of the screw hole and resting against the switch place holder.
    07.JPG

    Obvious step is obvious but you need to gently rest the switches on top of the washers now. Or in the case of LS-40-01, the PCB.
    08.JPG

    Illustrated below is how the actuator will interact with the levers. Remember in version 1 how the stock JLW actuator looked? Well, this time we've pushed it lower using the tension mod and raised the switches using the neoprene washers. Any benefits to this? I'm not sure if you consider it a benefit but it will shorten the engage just a tad having raised the switches a little. Using the stock JLW actuator also decreases the engage every so slightly because it is like, a tad larger diameter than the LS-40 actuator AND! is also straight rather than sloped, so will hit the switch a little earlier. Just how much? I don't notice it all that much really, not any more so than a stock LS-40, but the information is here because.
    09.JPG

    LS-40-01 users can ignore this portion until I write otherwise.

    As you can see here, the bottom of the restriction gate's hole is very close to the top of the JLW actuator bell. If there was a PCB, it wouldn't be so close, but alas...

    Anyway, does it affect the function of the lever? No, at this point we could say we're done, but just in case lets "fix" this so there are no complaints, awright? Awright!
    10.JPG

    Take the other four neoprene washers and set them parallel to the ones below the switches. This is to avoid as much as possible warping the gate when you screw it on. These are laid out near the screw points to create as much of a support structure as possible.
    11.JPG

    Gently place the gate on and screw it down. You don't want to toss your washers all around by being hasty, patience!!
    12.JPG

    Now you can see we've created a little extra safety space so that the actuator never gets stuck on the gate. Oh guess what? Higher gate also = shorter throw. However minimal, it will be a tad shorter. This is true for the LS-40-01 as well, since we've raised the switches below by using the washers as cushions and the PCB acts as the spacer that the washers above the switches are now acting as.
    13.JPG

    As you can see by the warping near the corners of the gate, I've screwed it down too tight. It's not bad because of the support via the placement of the neoprene washers, but hey, I warned you! Prolonged use as is can create a warped gate!
    14.JPG

    Easy to fix, simply loosen the screws just a tad. All you want is for the gate to be even, yet still secured, like pictured.
    15.JPG

    LS-40-01 users can now pay attention again!

    Aha! What's that prototype doing there?

    Allow m,e my fine modding friend, to sexplain. You see, on the shaft, there is a bit of foreskin, and when hitting it rough you know, it makes a loud sound. And we don't want to wake the neighbors, so we need to eliminate any foreskin noise! Let's now circumcise this tissue!

    What happens if we use the dust washer below the plate with a JLW shaft is the little pivot stop smacks it which in turn smacks the plate. It does not feel good nor is it pleasant to hear. So, in my case, I'm using a prototype screw in button pad to act as a spacer. You can use an O-ring from a hardware store to do the same.
    16.JPG

    In the case of the JLW shaft, we actually want to use an original Sanwa JLF dust washer, one of the kind that won't work with a shaft cover. Why? Because, it has the most dust protection available and on top of that the JLW has an extended shaft by default. So in this case, it actually doesn't matter, it's actually a bit preferred.
    17.JPG

    Once you get the dust washer on, screw your plate on over it. I call this the Sunken Dust Washer mod. It can only be done on a LS-40 body.
    18.JPG

    Now that we've screwed the plate one, test it out to make sure it feels good and makes no sound nor catches on anything. Yeah, it feels good and is silent. Let us now cover our shaft. Oh look at that, my shaft is bigger than the cover, uh oh! She gon' get pregnorant!
    19.JPG

    In my case because I use Dragon Bat top, I use an additional spacer to raise it up slightly. Otherwise, I feel it ends up being a bit too close and I don't get to see the shaft cover, and what if I want to see the shaft?
    20.JPG

    And there she be, version 2 of the most awesome lever mod ever. JL-40W!! Equal parts JLW, equal parts LS-40! Best of both worlds!
    21.JPG

    Little photography trick below. Don't throw away used toilet paper cardboard tubes!! They make awesome stick mounts for photographing!
    22.JPG

    So, how does it feel?

    Super fucking smooth. So smooth if your woman or a potential mate touches it, his/her panties will drop. Great tension, great engage and throw, great low friction pivot action. Out of all the mods I've done and sticks I've tried, this is THE best I've felt. Plus, you get extra protection from the Sunken Dust Washer mod only applicable to the LS-40.

    Also lucky for us the LS-40 is still in production. However, I feel once PAS does LS-32/40/JLW custom springs (all compatible) this will be a very deprecated mod. You'll still be able to raise the switches should you want the slightly different engage and throw. You'll get all the tension with much less work. On the other hand, having the custom pivot action is indeed pretty nice, and that's something you won't get with a LS-40 pivot in a LS-40 body. Nor do you get the additional shaft length from the JLW shaft. Shaft length can be modified though by either adding spacers or getting a new, custom made shaft.

    You can however, modify a JLF pivot, drill the hole wide enough if you must and you can get the same pivot action. Thankfully, the JLF isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Plastic pivot still doesn't feel as good as a steel pivot though :(

    Even when that stuff comes out, there will still be reasons to do this mod just because Tech Talk, For Science, and pivot feeling. Problem will come from trying to find spare JLW parts when production is running dry, people are going to be less likely to give them up.

    Optional mod is to desolder the switches off the LS-40-01 PCB and solder in wires with QD crimped on the ends for custom switches added to the PCB.

    That's that!! Enjoy your mod, or enjoy looking at my pictures.
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    edited December 2014
    LS-40 Sunken Dust Washer mod

    A simple tweak to ensure lever and pivot action longevity. This is an old mod I did years ago that I never shared.

    Who likes dust in their pivots? Not us! It's like sandy vaginas. Or sand in your panties. Or your dick hole. No one likes that shit. Even if you put a second dust washer between the panel and the stick on the underside, you still have potential to get debris if you flip your stick upside down.

    How do we alleviate this?

    Mod theory:

    Secure the dust washer below the mounting plate to ensure no dust or debris ever gets in our well lubed pivot lever machines!

    Tools required:
    Screw driver
    Shaft cover compatible dustwasher
    


    Optional:
    Nylon spacer for bare shaft mod
    

    Process:

    Super simple. Remove the mounting plate. Place the dust washer on the shaft, and screw the plate back on top. Should look something like this.
    01.JPG

    Ahem!! What's that stuff thar? Well, allow me to tell you about Optional Bare Shaft mod!

    First, you need a spacer, just like this! I got this at Sutherlands Hardware, and had to do no modding to the spacer. It simply fits on the lower half of the LS-40 shaft and happens to also fit perfectly in place with a shaft cover dust washer. Why do we need this? Well, as explained earlier in this thread, the LS-40 requires a shaft cover else it won't mount at the right (wrong, silly Seimitsu and your shorter than short shafts!!) LS-40 height nor will it have the right spring tension. You like bare shaft when handle ball top? Yes? You like floppy lever? No?
    02.JPG

    Place it on the shaft just like this. This is the same function as the shaft cover, which has a spacer built into it to act as a stop for the pivot.
    03.JPG

    Lube it up and place your shaft in the pivot. It now resembles a JLW in appearance to a degree. Slide the dust washer around the nylon spacer so it appears like this.
    04.JPG

    Screw the plate on and it should look just like the first image in this post.

    Unlike the JLW, you do not need to use an o-ring to raise the dust washer because the nylon spacer is tall enough to keep it in check. It's a really simple and effective mod to keep your LS-40 series clean and free of crap in your grindy parts.
    Post edited by Moonchilde on
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    Updated.
  • uncleaneruncleaner Joined: Posts: 36
    *reads 8000 words of some guy combing some joystick no one cares about with another one* haha! agree! like! lol! win!!!!!!
  • uncleaneruncleaner Joined: Posts: 36
    Damn fine job my man.... nothing left to do but sit back and wait for the likes from 35 year olds with star wars avatars to roll in.
  • uncleaneruncleaner Joined: Posts: 36
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    In light of recent events, if Focus Attack wants to use this thread as a source for tech support, I would greatly appreciate it if the original thread (this thread if for whatever reason beyond normal common sense there is any doubt as to which thread I'm specifying...) was posted as a response rather than an off site tech support article linking back to the thread. I am not posting this information to be abused freely, but in the spirit of community sharing.

    This means:

    If someone asks "are there JLW mods?" and you link to an off site support article, the original article must be included in addition to the off site one.

    - or -

    The original article is used in place of the off site support article.

    Thank you.
    Damn.... lol... haha... you know it! Some epic lols and a healthy dose of truth bombs getting dropped ITT.
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 418
    edited December 2014
    uncleaner wrote: »
    *reads 8000 words of some guy combing some joystick no one cares about with another one* haha! agree! like! lol! win!!!!!!

    Apparently you don't seem to realize that Tech Talk is exactly the place for a project like this to be recorded. It is not only useful as a guide but also to give inspiration to others who might try their own projects. But given the state of your rapid fire posts you just wrote I have a feeling you have an axe to grind.
    Post edited by Amerika on
  • kuradoberijamfrkuradoberijamfr Joined: Posts: 57
    So are the tabs that get in the way of the switches' COM terminal on the LS40 body useless or will their removal leave a slightly less secure switch ?
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    Useless. Little nubs keep the switches in place and then you screw them down through the gate.
  • sethian0sethian0 B PoSiTiVe - B KiND Joined: Posts: 1,092
    good shit Moon
  • rcaidorcaido Dynamic Bayside Duo Joined: Posts: 8,370
    Has anyone tried using LS40 on Sanwa arcade panels? I bought the Kowal "Universal" mounting plates & man seem like i would have to actually do some dremeling to make it work. Still will sit a bit low though.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    the short shaft mounting on just about any configuration you can think of unless using a S plate on a metal control panel always left me wanting

  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    Yeah, you need the s-plate for the usual jlf mounts (such as those in a TE or candy cab).
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • rcaidorcaido Dynamic Bayside Duo Joined: Posts: 8,370
    I have both Kowal mounting plates. The S plate version does not fit on the panel, its too big.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    I don't know about that particular plate or the specific mount in your cabinet, but the Seimitsu SS plate works in a TE.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    edited December 2014
    Pictures of your cabinet's mounts?

    Also worth pointing out that the ls40 is fine to flush mount in your panzer stick (or any of Jasen's panels).
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,366
    edited December 2014
    rcaido wrote: »
    I have both Kowal mounting plates. The S plate version does not fit on the panel, its too big.

    I wonder if Paradise Arcade Shop's Universal S Plate fits.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • rcaidorcaido Dynamic Bayside Duo Joined: Posts: 8,370
    Pictures of your cabinet's mounts?

    Also worth pointing out that the ls40 is fine to flush mount in your panzer stick (or any of Jasen's panels).

    20141216_105046_zpss197oyev.jpg


    Paradise only had the one Universal Plate, not the S plate version that i know of....Also the Kowal S plate i think is ideal for the Astro Seimitsu panels wanting to put Sanwa JLF instead.
  • NENDONENDO I will meditate and then destroy you. Joined: Posts: 3,346
    rcaido wrote: »
    Pictures of your cabinet's mounts?

    Also worth pointing out that the ls40 is fine to flush mount in your panzer stick (or any of Jasen's panels).
    http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r225/baklakiller/20141216_105046_zpss197oyev.jpg


    Paradise only had the one Universal Plate, not the S plate version that i know of....Also the Kowal S plate i think is ideal for the Astro Seimitsu panels wanting to put Sanwa JLF instead.

    There's a Paradise Universal S plate but it's not available yet.

  • SPLIPHSPLIPH Joined: Posts: 29
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    Eventually, once @armi0024‌ gets those LS-40 springs (which will be compatible with LS-32, JLW, and LS-40) this mod will most likely be deprecated. Tension mod is still useful since you can tweak.
    Is there an ETA on those, or should I be asking Armi? Are they going to be custom springs with multiple weight or is it just to match a JLW spring?

    I've had an LS-40 collecting dust and started using it for several months now. I think it could be my favorite stick if only the spring tension was heavier. It's fine for the most part, but I have some accuracy issues trying to do certain things as fast as I can. I thought it was something I could adjust to over time but it's just not happening. I had the same problem with Silent JLF until I popped in a slightly heavier spring.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    You'd have to ask @armi0024‌. On the other hand, if you can find some spare JLW springs, you could use those as well, though it would be a tight fight.
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,866
    Is there any difference between the JLW TM-8 and UM-8 other than the plate? And would either fit in a Fightstick and TE without modding or problems or I'd need something like a universal plate?
  • AmerikaAmerika Something witty here. Joined: Posts: 418
    Tensho wrote: »
    Is there any difference between the JLW TM-8 and UM-8 other than the plate? And would either fit in a Fightstick and TE without modding or problems or I'd need something like a universal plate?

    The TM-8 has 6mm threads for standard Sanwa/Seimitsu ball and bat tops. The UM-8 has 10mm threads which is compatible with some ball/bat tops. I own both and the plates are the same.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,837
    They're identical with the exception of the shaft. 10 mm threaded top vs 6 mm threaded top, and the 6 mm threaded shaft is the same diameter top and bottom compared to the 10 mm threaded shaft, thicker on top, thinner on bottom. AFAIK the mounting plates are the same.
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,866
    Thanks, so I guess TM-8 it is, it should fit in those 2 sticks no problem then? The plate has the same mounting holes as a JLF?
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