The toxicity that is the Stages thread. Welcome to Disagree, USA

Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma MatataJoined: Posts: 9,142
Gamer should be legal. And go.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    This thread is going to go straight to shit almost overnight.

    Wily Castle legal or GTFO.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    po pimpus wrote: »
    This thread is going to go straight to shit almost overnight.

    Wily Castle legal or GTFO.

    I will blame you as always then.
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    So I'm hosting a new tournament next year.

    Need to come up with legal Counterpick stages and bans

    Here's my list transplanted from the GD thread
    Here are my pick for bans, with some logic behind it

    Luigi's Mansion: Cave of Life. Plain and simple, the Cave of life is removable, but very hard to do so, having to destroy at least one floor before working on the other parts. Sure when it's gone, it's all flat and nice, but we have FD for that.

    Bridge of Eldin: It's a walk off, which is bad, but the bomb makes it worse. It artificially removes a huge chunk of the stage and makes a divide. This disrupts gameplay a lot more than you think, even if it is temporary. If Mac has to double jump across with a Puff or Sheik waiting on the otherside, there's no way he's gonna actually get there, so he might as well wait. It's artificial stalling.

    Onett: Same problems it's always had. The houses create a box of pain, the cars hit hard for how sneaky they can be(despite the soft warning) and it's a walk off. The houses promote camping the borders even more than most walk offs

    Pyrosphere: Ridley. Just Ridley. He hits hard, occupies a ton of the stage, and can easily make it a 2v1 scenario. And what's the point of a 1v1 match when you can make it 2v1? In addition, the stage is on the bigger side and there are other obstacles about.

    Yoshi's Island(Melee): Too small. Like, there's a lot os small things in this stage that add up(walk off to the right, the hills, the blocks in the middle), but it's just too small.

    Skyworld: The stage destruction mechanic seems to come out in the worst way. Destroying some of the platform leads to incredibly easy kills if the opponent doesn't tech, bouncing off the top through a hollow platform below into death. But even past that, if they do tech, it becomes a Cave of Life. Damned if you do.......

    Gaur Plains: Who came up with this stage design? Not only is there no place to fight, but it's insanely easy to simply circle camp the entire stage. Metal Face is probably the tamest boss, and not a big deal, but just the sheer running potential here, coupled with the lack of any space to really fight on(except at the top close to the borders) just make this stage abysmal

    PAC-LAND: The only scrolling stage is also cluttered with buildings and platforms and hazards and oh yeah, it's zoomed in too far. There is just so much to watch out for that isn't your opponent on this stage. Terrible for 1v1

    75M: Disruptive and nowhere to really fight. This is kind of like a crazier version of Gaur Plains. Plus it's very big and the numerous small platforms eliminate not only the follow ups a walk off might give, but also means you have to KO to kill.

    Flat Zone X: Flat Zone 2 basically. Disruptive stage hazards, is a walk off, and the stage is too small. Nothing different from the old Flat Zones

    ALSO FOR CONSIDERATION, BUT NOT ACTUALLY IN THE BAN PILE

    Skyloft: The only problem with this stage is I suspect it lags. Keeping an eye on it for now

    Big Battlefield: Why would we need this when we have Battlefield. I'll need to see it in action with a 1v1 more, but needless to say it's probably just Battlefield but bigger.

    Thoughts, comments, please talk to me here
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  • KaboXxKaboXx FIGHTING CAT Joined: Posts: 3,954
    Smashville or gtfo


    The more i play gamer, the more i like it. But i can see why peeps hate it.
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  • KaboXxKaboXx FIGHTING CAT Joined: Posts: 3,954
    It has to be a local thing then, they say mom is disruptive as hell. But glad to see im not a minority here...
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    Mom's not disruptive because she's incredibly easy to work around.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    You gotta be a bitch ass nigga to complain about Gamer...
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 21,528
    edited December 2014
    po pimpus wrote: »
    You gotta be a bitch ass nigga to complain about Gamer...

    Congrats, you just described at least half of my local.

    ...okay I'll stop now.

    That said, one question I have in regards to Gamer is the cave of life that appears occasionally due to the random layout. Should we not care about the layout it gives us, or if one player picks Gamer as their stage, should we only play on the versions that don't have that Cave of Life?

    That variant of the stage isn't terrible by any means but it's just a thought. Since that changes things quite a bit in regards to how you fight on it.
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    Since the cave of life is random, it's hard to actually plan around it when picking the stage. I'd let it slide.
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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 21,528
    Alright, figured that would be the case. Just making sure since that is a concern (albeit a minor one).
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    edited December 2014
    I've got preliminary stage lists for the January 3rd tournament

    Wii U stage List(Subject to change)
    Neutral:
    Battlefield
    Final Destination
    Wily's Omega(For the wall platform variant)
    Kongo 64
    Smashville
    Town and City
    Duck Hunt

    Counterpick Stages:
    Halberd
    Windy Hill
    Mario Galaxy
    Mario Circuit
    Mario Circuit(Brawl)
    Delfino
    Skyloft
    Norfai
    Jungle Hijinx(Debatable)
    Orbital Gate(Debatable)
    Lylat
    Castle Siege
    Coliseum
    Kalos Pokemon League
    Pokemon Stadium 2
    Yoshi's Wolly World(Debatable)
    Gamer
    Garden of Hope
    Wii Fit Studio
    Wrecking Crew
    Pilot Wings
    Wuhu Island
    Boxing Ring
    Wily Castle

    Banned Stages:
    Temple
    Palutena Temple
    Great Cave Offensive
    PAC-LAND
    Luigi's Mansion
    Bridge of Eldin
    Onett
    Pyrosphere
    Yoshi's Island(Melee)
    Skyworld
    Gaur Plains
    75M
    Flat Zone X

    3DS Stage List(UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND EVEN MORE SUBJECT TO CHANGE)
    Neutral:
    Final Destination
    Tortimer Island
    Battlefield
    Lumiose City
    Yoshi's Island
    Wily's Omega

    Counterpick:
    Reset Bomb
    Mute City
    Rainbow Road
    Tomadachi Life
    Pictochat 2
    Boxing Ring
    Spirit Tracks
    Brinstar
    Pac Maze
    Find Mii
    N's Castle/Unova
    Arena Ferox
    Spirit Tracks
    Wily Castle

    Banned:
    3D land
    Golden Plains
    Paper Mario
    Mushroomy Kingdom
    Corneria
    Gerudo Valley
    Warioware
    Magicant
    Living Room
    Balloon Fight
    Guar Plains
    Jungle Japes
    Green Hill Zone

    I decided that Final Destination with walls should get it's own spot, so I went with Wily's Omega since they're the same in both versions

    You may all rage now
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  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Justice Has Prevailed! Joined: Posts: 3,214
    That's quite a liberal stage list there.

    Normally, I'd argue for more conservatism, but in the interest of fairness to this forum, I'll only argue against one stage. Spirit Tracks is way too obstructive to be a counterpick. From the instant-kill train tracks, to the cars obstructing the view of the characters, and the camera panning to cut off half the stage, fighting there is just a nightmare. By comparison, 3D Land is incredibly tame, especially for a scrolling stage, and would fit in your counterpick section a lot more given your liberal stage list.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • drwill439drwill439 I'll never understand. Joined: Posts: 2,953
    That's quite a liberal stage list there.

    Normally, I'd argue for more conservatism, but in the interest of fairness to this forum, I'll only argue against one stage. Spirit Tracks is way too obstructive to be a counterpick. From the instant-kill train tracks, to the cars obstructing the view of the characters, and the camera panning to cut off half the stage, fighting there is just a nightmare. By comparison, 3D Land is incredibly tame, especially for a scrolling stage, and would fit in your counterpick section a lot more given your liberal stage list.

    I totally agree. Spirit Tracks should be banned. I would venture to add Pictochat as well. If Warioware is banned, with its list of random shit, why isn't Pictochat banned?
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    The problem with Warioware isn't the random stage hazards, but the random stage rewards

    I will take Spirit Tracks into consideration
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    Come ON with this Magicant hatred...

    We've been over this, guys.

    Also, if you're keeping Wrecking Crew, then there is no reason to not have Luigis, Onett, and Skyworld...

    Stop hating on Earthbound and Kid Icarus, guys...
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 21,528
    Luigi's Mansion has the cave of life problem. Skyworld does too but the destructible terrain can also make for some very stupid kills through the bottom. And if you tech off the ceiling you can still keep getting juggled anyway.

    Onett I'm not sure about.
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    Onett's problem is the houses create giant borders near walkoffs. It's like having to approach someone camping the walk off by jumping at them. In this game. Where Landing traps are very prelevant.

    Skyworld somehow has a cave of life AND a cave of death

    Po, you're not getting Magicant no matter what Pit and Ness's Homie 'Da Tiny Platform' tells you.
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  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,596
    I've got preliminary stage lists for the January 3rd tournament

    3DS Stage List(UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND EVEN MORE SUBJECT TO CHANGE)
    Neutral:
    Final Destination
    Battlefield
    Lumiose City
    Yoshi's Island

    Counterpick:
    Omega Stages
    Tortimer Island
    Reset Bomb
    Mute City
    Rainbow Road
    Arena Ferox

    Banned:
    Tomadachi Life
    Pictochat 2
    Boxing Ring
    Spirit Tracks
    Pac Maze
    Find Mii
    N's Castle/Unova
    Wily Castle
    Brinstar

    3D land
    Golden Plains
    Paper Mario
    Mushroomy Kingdom
    Corneria
    Gerudo Valley
    Warioware
    Magicant
    Living Room
    Balloon Fight
    Guar Plains
    Jungle Japes
    Green Hill Zone

    I decided that Final Destination with walls should get it's own spot, so I went with Wily's Omega since they're the same in both versions

    You may all rage now

    i'm only going to comment on the 3ds list as it's all i know. my changes are in bold.

    Tortimer's cannot be a neutral stage. the lack of ledges really hampers a lot of characters when recovering. the stage is fucking gigantic so it favors campy gameplay. the ship and the shark are random and greatly shift the gameplay to certain sides of the stage. the fruit are random and some are strong bombs. it also gives bee hives. there is way too much going against this stage to be neutral. i'm more on the banning this stage cause there are too many factors that go into influencing a match. i'll leave it as a CP but it cannot be a neutral.

    omega stages cannot be neutral as they cannot be selected with random. really no other reason, neutral stages have been regulated with random select so you can't put an omega stage there when it can't be selected with random. they instantly go to CP only because they cannot be selected by random select.

    find mii, pictochat 2, wily's castle, and unova have too many obstacles to fight with in a tournament match. something is crazy obtrusive or you're playing dodge the obstacles for a good amount of time. find mii even gives buffs and debuffs to characters at random and the dragon randomly comes in and can KO. unova is the most tame but reshiram is a dick as he can take out a large portion of the stage

    pac-maze has a shitty layout of the stage, a cave of life, and elongates matches a significant amount. the ghosts are the least worrisome thing here and it's too easy to recover on this stage (you pretty much can't edgeguard someone as there is almost always a safe place to land).

    boxing ring is way too big and has permanent walk offs. it's crazy campy and almost impossible to even finish a 2 stock match on.

    spirit tracks is way too distracting to play a tournament setting match on. you're dodging shit all the time and trying not to die on either the tracks or from something blowing up.

    tomodachi is honestly just too campy. you can simply circle camp the living hell out of this stage. matches take too long and it benefits fast characters over slow ones too much. it's a really cool concept but it's way too campy.

    brinstar removes too much of the stage and at a certain point gets to a "king of the hill" game. whoever has the top platform wins.

    rainbow road is like it's own category. it's not terrible but it's not good either. I'll leave it in CP as it's borderline but i still don't think it's that good of a stage. the cars are random and there are certain times where it's almost impossible to dodge them.

    mute city isn't terrible, there just isn't much place to fight and favors projectile characters greatly, more so than other stages. i'll leave it as CP but i still don't think it's a good stage

    reset bomb factory 1 is fine. too bad there is reset bomb factory 2. the 2nd part of the stage has a terrible layout, cave of life, and just a lot of options to recover to. it's just....not good. if it was just RBF1, i'd say neutral but RBF2 sucks. it can stay as CP but i just don't like it.

    Arena Ferox has a cave of life and the smoke part when transforming actually blocks out the characters to the point where you can't see them. It's the most CP of all the stages and personally, I hate it but it's w/e. it transforms, it's a worse pokemon stadium and has a terrible cave of life.


    the 3ds really doesn't have many stages to work with
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    Well mood, sadly, I'd like for more than 10 stages to be available so I will not 1 to 1 implement your stage suggestions

    Other than that, we'll see
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  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,596
    it really shouldn't matter how many stages you have legal, as long as they are okay is what matters most
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    Japan plays on three stages...

    We're not doing that shit.

    Go play any other 2D fighter if moving around the stage is too difficult for you.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,596
    i gave you 9-10 stages

    teh 3ds has like...nothing to work with
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    3DS has plenty to work with if people would take the sticks outta their asses and learn to deal with stuff.

    But of course, that requires people actually wanting to be willing to change and grow from the same old Melee shit, and we all know how that goes...
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,596
    most of the time dealing with something is to just wait it out. makes matches longer

    tomodachi life is probably the best example of this. there is nothing inherently wrong with the stage. it's got a unique layout, kind of on the big side but nothing too big (like palutena's temple for example), and doesn't leave much room to safely recover.

    but the layout of the stage allows a lot of room to run around and just be annoying. it causes a lot of time outs and favors vertically based characters a lot, mostly sword users. the more we figure out the stages, the more likely they are to be ban worthy.

    wily castle cannot be legal po. yellow devil takes up way too much room
  • SonichumanSonichuman You're too sloooww!! Joined: Posts: 18,802
    I need to fight some of you guys on Luigi's mansion with this whole 'cave of life' thing you guys are talking about. I consider it more 'cave of damage' more than anything.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    I'vegot nothing to do today. If anyone wants to defend the legality of some stages by playing some games, let me know
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    the more we figure out the stages, the more likely they are to be ban worthy.

    Which is why we've got a more liberal stage list in the early stages of the game
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    Playing on shit isn't going to solve anything. I'll take someone to Magicant, LOSE, and they'll still bitch about Flying Man, despite him not even being a factor for 70% of the match.

    Or take someone like LordWilliam to a seemingly tame stage like Pilotwings, and watch him shit up the game with stupid ass coward tactics.

    Again, the problem isn't the stages, it's how awful human beings are in their obsession to win at any cost.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    po pimpus wrote: »
    Playing on shit isn't going to solve anything. I'll take someone to Magicant, LOSE, and they'll still bitch about Flying Man, despite him not even being a factor for 70% of the match.

    Or take someone like LordWilliam to a seemingly tame stage like Pilotwings, and watch him shit up the game with stupid ass coward tactics.

    Again, the problem isn't the stages, it's how awful human beings are in their obsession to win at any cost.

    That's kind of the point of a tournament though. We all hang out and play friendlies regularly. A tournament has something on the line, usually a prize worth winning or bragging rights or something. So I wouldn't bring that argument up when discussing a tournament list. People will do whatever they can to win a tournament.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    It's funny, because the better player is going to win regardless of the situation. If I lose because I got too impatient against coward tactics, instead of waiting it out, that's on me.
    If Mood loses because he didn't know about the blast zone changing on Delfino, well that's his own fault(which he will still bitch about)...

    Yellow Devil gives you a ten-second warning before he comes in, knock the other guy out of position and take the best spot to handle things... Oh wait, no, fuck that. Who has time for adapting and strategy even though that's the same shit y'all throw at me when I bitch about stupid ass Lucario. *Who is far more annoying than any stage hazard, Ridley included*

    I'm getting tired of fighting for this shit. Y'all are gonna ban everything until we're playing on Smashville 85% of the time anyway, so I might as well try to get people drunk by playing Smashville Shots...
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 21,528
    If the stage lets me play a certain way or use a certain tactic that takes away risk, I will go for it. I'm not going to stop taking advantage of the stage in a certain way just because you don't like it.

    As for Wily Castle, the problem is that the yellow devil obstructs the fight way too much. It takes up a ton of the stage, actively shoots stuff at you and will regularly go across the stage creating a wall of hitboxes. You're not fighting your opponent at that point, you're fighting the stage.

    And STOP comparing Lucario to a stage hazard. You can't compare a player-controlled character to a non-playable stage hazard.
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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    I know from time to time, when playing Po or LW or someone in casuals, the stage may just obliterate us on whim. We'd all laugh it off and say 'The winner was definitely the stage'. But if that were to happen in Grand Finals of my tournament, well, I'd have to give the prize to the stage. And everyone would get mad. Because frankly the stage is a terrible player and doesn't deserve the win
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,309
    So what's a better Smashville? Smashville or Town and City?

    I'm so glad based Sakurai gave us a choice between TWO SMASHVILLES... What an awesome guy.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    My my, is that sarcastic disapproval of Sakurai I hear from Po? Now I know he's not serious
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  • Sir_TubbsySir_Tubbsy Sympathies given: 0 Joined: Posts: 17
    I don’t think find mii is a good choice of a stage for a tournament because of the random buffs/nerfs that can give an advantage randomly.
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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 21,528
    Since you asked CG, when it comes to Luigi's Mansion, here's a couple matches between me and @Sonichuman on it.

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  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,142
    I had forgotten that you could hid behind the pillars and tank shots.
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