Samurai Shodown Talk

DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
Greetings all from a long time lurker. I've been a FG player since before Ryu wore shoes, and am also the lead developer/site owner for the OpenBOR community (a universal engine that specializes in Streets of Rage/Final Fight style beat-em-ups).

I noticed there doesn't seem to be much about for Samurai Shodown here. That's really surprising considering this sort of community. The last discussion I could find dried up more than two years ago, and the wiki could REALLY use some love. Thought maybe I could jump start things a little. Any SamSho 2 players left out there? Not that 3+ were bad games - but they lost me with that idiotic, lazy universal push throw crap. Sen could have been something special and has a few OK touches, but obviously nobody on that development team really gave a spit.

The mechanics of SamSho 2 were in my opinion absolutely sublime. A huge subsystem with tons and tons of options, fast movement, heavy damage but risk in going for it, creative moves, a different kind of strategy needed but old school tactics are not useless, character deisgns that managed to perfectly straddle the line between unique and cool, lots of secrets...

I'd love to hear opinions on matchups, tiers, heck anything. :open_mouth:

I've also whipped up a pretty extensive wiki entry for Galford - the others could use some TLC as well. Oh how I miss putting cocky Ukyo players in their place back at the arcade. "Go Poppy!" *sigh*

DC
Nice to meet you. Anything personal you'd like to know can be found here. Want to build your own beat-em-up or any other 2D game? You should have a look here.
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Comments

  • The_AdventurerThe_Adventurer Joined: Posts: 147
    SNK talk seems pretty thin on the net these days (even over on Dream Cancel!), which sucks overall (mostly SNK's fault for being less then prolific these days). I picked up Sam Shodown Anthology on Wii a few months ago and put in some time on the various incarnations. More SSVI then the others (that sprite blurring *shudder*), but I did play a bit of II and III. Interesting and unique games. But I have to say, I prefer Last Blade 2 for my SNK weapon fighter.
  • veromirveromir Joined: Posts: 46
    Samurai Shodown 2 may not the best fighting game (but is among the best), but is the fighting game I had the best experience, was my favorite fighting game (together with KOF 95) at that time. The art and sound is amazing. The only thing I don't like too much about it, and I discovered it only recently, is the story. Amakusa is inspired on a historical figure and don't like that he is portrayed as the villain. Any way I think Samurai Shodown 2 is the best in the series and among the 5 best FGs of all time. I'm actually creating a FG with swords ( http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/196298/my-new-game-way-of-the-flying-sword#latest ) and Samurai Shodown 2 is an inspiration for me.
  • jimmy1200jimmy1200 Joined: Posts: 8,867
    I'm personally a samurai shodown 4 guy. I forgot why i didnt like 3 much, and 5 is cool. 1&2 are more nostalgia goggles for me, rather than me enjoying playing them. There was an article not to long ago about samurai shodown 5 that made it to the front page

    Deep Cuts – Why Samurai Shodown V Special is the Best Fighting Game You’ve Never Played
    http://shoryuken.com/2014/02/25/deep-cuts-why-samurai-shodown-v-special-is-the-best-fighting-game-youve-never-played/

    You wont get much of a discussion about samurai shodown around here, but you wont get much discussion of many fighting games around here to be honest. The community is mostly young now in the sense of how long alot of the competitive players have been around, so theyre not interested, and the old heads just have an opinion on old games that theyre not good at, and dont play. If you leave it up to many of them, ST is the pinnacle of heavy footsie based fighters, and everything else is forgotten, even though st is just as cheap and stupid as the other games.


    Samurai shodown until i would say killer instinct, and the recent new killer instinct, stood in the top 3 of best character and stage designs ever for a franchise.

    I dont like ss4's brokeness, although you can soft ban infinites with friends or for a tournament. The pace of the game is delicious, and the simplicity of its mechanics and combo system are something modern developers should take a look at.

    My preferred footsie based fighter is actually the samurai shodown series. If i was stuck with the sf series on an island for 5 years as my footsie based fighter, id throw it in the fucking ocean, and wait until i got home to play samurai shodown.

    The rooms in ggpo were never really that active. Mostly it was just people in there playing with a friend like myself. Not just like 10 people sitting in the lobby waiting, and on fightcade ive always seen it dead, but maybe it comes alive during a certain hour of the day.

    If i could just find a solid 10 people i could cycle through with in playing samurai shodown 4/5 online (who have good connects) on a weekly basis, id be fine with that. I dont even need hundreds of shitty mcshitheads playing.

    Its funny that fightcade offers fighting game players a mecca to play og games on awesome netcode for free, but its not taken advantage of at all, and those og games are still fun as fuck to this day. I'd gladly play mvc1 and xvsf over umvc3 any day of the week, but im bias on that.



    There are a lot of disgusting sins of the fighting game community, but no love for samurai shodown has to be one of its worst for sure.

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    LEMME GET DAT!
  • BzChoyBzChoy Only the finest poverty shit. Joined: Posts: 427
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    I forgot why i didnt like 3 much

    Charging rage meter? Huge overall damage output? Dominating top tiers? Haha, just trying to help you.

    And that Samsho5sp's article is the best article on frontpage SRK that nobody read. No joke. Man, Shizumaru is sooo fun to play! And so is Rasetsumaru in Tenka.

    Yo, Samsho guys, I got some questions: I just saw a SSTenka tier list and it says that EX Galford is broken. What makes him broken? And is their a way to reliably do Kusaregedo's command throw (wtf are those inputs, really)? And I read somewhere that Shizumaru has a "hard-to-escape" issen setup, can anyone shed a light on this?
    My main: the most lame, cheesy, trollish character in your favorite game.

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  • Virtua_LeonVirtua_Leon Gal me seeeerious Joined: Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'll help you with with SS3 and why you didn't like it

    1) ridiculous damage, but really it's not the games fault it was 1995, find me another game in 1995 where you didnt do a truck load of damage, lol 1995 damage, but yeah some things did so much damage like amakusa down lk, you link 3 of those and say goodbye to half a bar, granted is was hard as fuck to do, but at the end of the day it's just a down LK it should not do 15% damage.
    Most command grabs off the top of my head slash galford bust gaira genjuros bust hanzos do incredible damage, and with throws being so poor it made command throws super good (i'll try to elaborate in a bit)
    But on the other extreme you had certain moves like basaras command grab, kyshiros DP that did almost no damage, it just didnt make any logical sense.

    2) Broken characters, bust gaira has the kof 95 guard break glitch at ANY time, bust haoahmaru can land infinents multiple ways, even if he does not he still is a really decent character, his shoulder ram is glitchy as fuck forcing you to eat restand combos which do a truckload of damage, but for me while yes it's a problem it's not the be all and end all, i mean how many games have imbalance? lots but the gap between say bust hoahmaru and bust basara are massive i think it's probably the biggest gap i've ever seen between in a fighter, i mean here you have bust haohmaru, can do anything he wants, VS a character who is completely useless, rubbish normals rubbish specials no combos, no damage, rubbish normal hitboxes, just shitty

    3) infinents and i'll throw in back turn state, there really is so many, many braindead easy, and if you manage to get behind your foe which you will because it's so fast it's game over

    4) now for me this is the biggest gripe i have, it has the worst hitbox detection of any fighter ever, you'll whiff and whiff again you'll gasp in amazement as you standing middle slash with haohmaru up close completely whiffs through your opponent for no reason, it's horrible.
    Some characters are just so hard to win with because of there wonky arse striking hitboxes, kyoshiro amakusa basara, ukyo, but really everybody has it, i dunno what they were thinking letting this out in such i mean if it wasn't for the bad collision i could actually like this game, but it's so bad, everybody points to snk v capcom as the being the worst ever, they've never played ss3

    5) rubbish throws, now forgive me i'm not a frame expert but your normal throw in ss 3 while is a game winner game changer no doubt, it's also the slowest normal throw i've ever seen ever, granted i've not played every fighting game on the planet, but how many throws can you avoid almost on reaction?
    It makes opening up character so hard especially if you are using a character with no command throw, granted bust haohmaru and genjuro dont have them and do ok, thats because they use other retarded bullshit, if you whiff a normal throw which will happen, because they have ZERO range and a ton or start up it's basically goodbye 30% or worse depending who you are playing

    When you put them all together you have a train wreck


    AAAAAAAAS WE ENTER!
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    Yeah Samsho is such an underrated series. It really is the only fighting series that has got weapons based fighting right. Many games just have weapons for show, as slightly extended hitboxes...in Samsho there is disarming, clashes, and you are mostly dependent on your weapon to do damage.

    Samsho5sp is one of my favorite fighting games ever...however also by far the least played of my favorites. Hardly anyone on GGPO or fightcade.

    I don't understand what happened with Samsho. Samsho1 when it came out in the arcades, was super popular....tons of people playing all the time. It was by far the most played SNK game I've ever seen. Samsho 2 was played too, but you didn't see it in as many arcades. Then it just dropped off the face of the earth.





  • DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
    edited April 2015
    Wow, nice to see some response. Thanks all, I was beginning to worry.

    SSIII lost me in the first thirty seconds. I didn't even have time to notice the lack of play-testing and shoddy collision.
    • Attack Commands: Four attack commands to SSII's six. Kicks went from being a unique part of every character's arsenal to a limited, boring, and universal set of the exact same five moves for everyone in the cast.
    • Throws: The push/pull is an interesting idea, but it was handled horribly. It should have been a unique and thematic mechanic for certain characters, like say making it a second throw for Charlotte (oh wait... no Charlotte :| ). Barring that, add it to the subsystem. Replacing what was at the time the most distinctive and brutal throw animations seen in a fighting game with this crap was unadulterated stupidity. Icing on the cake, it was a broken mechanic anyway that led to so many exploits they finally gave up and reworked it into an auto strike for SSV.
    • Subsystem: So instead of lighting quick movement with dashing, lying down, hopping, parrying, and rolling - all mapped logically and accessible but not abusive, we get underwater speed and a pseudo 3D side switch that can be spammed till the end of time. Brilliant.
    • Unarmed Fighting: Lose your weapon in SSII and you're playing Street Fighter. Really. SSII has a whole new game hidden under the first to master. Even though you were usually in big trouble without a weapon, everyone in the cast has a complete set of unarmed normals and some even get new cancels, combos, throws, and such. It kept things fun and showed how SNK was paying exquisite attention to detail at the time. SSIII, not so much. You get a single punch animation shoehorned into all of your possible states, full stop. It's not just lazy, but horribly unbalanced too (hello Bust Galford infinity).
    • Slash/Bust: I know some people liked this, but I could not stand it. None of the characters felt complete any more. Some of them were nerfed out of existence by their move sets being split off, and some were just overpowered beyond belief.
    • Balance: See above. SSII had Ukyo at the top and Nak at the bottom, but anybody could win when played right. In SSIII, fights were decided at the selection screen.
    • Graphics: OK, the huge sprites were nice, but the animation was terrible and they had nowhere near the personality of SSII. You can play SSII for years and not see all it has to offer. Multiple taunts, commands displayed as the CPU used moves, little character touches like Nak's hidden victory animation where she calls in Poppy... the list goes on. SSIII had none of this.

    TL;DR: From SSIII on the series just felt dumbed down, standardized, and over simplified to me. Last Blade fixed a few of those things, but is IMO still too homogenized and limited compared to all the things you could do in SSI and II.

    I've more to say about other things, but let's leave that for other posts. :)

    DC

    *Edit:* Typo Fix.
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  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You all can thank me for having SSII on ggpo
    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
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  • Virtua_LeonVirtua_Leon Gal me seeeerious Joined: Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Gedos grab is alot easier in tenka than it is in 5 sp or at least i find it to be. in tenka it's easy to do it in a dash because gedo hops, it's not like 5 sp where he'd roll and you'd end up jumping fucking it up, but in tenka depending on your system you got alot ways to hide it, i mean in 5 sp you could, but i found id dont it alot more.
    Also it's hard to do on a pad although you're probably using a stick, it's just timing and practice, i mean most people will do it in recoiled state like they block your up close middle slash in fact even on hit (wont combo though) and bang, it's not a move you're gonna be nailing every 5 minutes,you gotta be crafty

    That motion is proper oldskool i think it started in 93/94 big bears command grab, in special OR 2 dont remember, and again you had to hide ways of doing it, like behind blocked shoulders or drop kicks, or ticks

    AAAAAAAAS WE ENTER!
  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Sometimes It Snows In April... Joined: Posts: 3,239
    SamSho is near and dear to my heart. I played the hell out of SS1 when it was in arcades but around the time 2 came out I was kind of getting out of fighting games, I eventually caught up via emulation. Even the entries in the series that I don't like as much still have fantastic visual and character direction. The stages are among my favorites in ANY fighting game, especially the one (I believe it's in 4) where you're fighting on a boat moving through a river at night. Amazing stuff! SNK really pulled out the big guns for this series.

    After playing them all I'd say 5sp is my favorite, but I like 2 a lot as well. 5sp is one of those games you can tell they put a lot of time and love into, much like in Guilty Gear. The atmosphere in that game is just so fucking good and it's a blast to play! My brother and I started playing a lot of 5sp before we got serious into Guilty Gear.

    Say what you want about KoF or any of SNK's other series, in my mind, SamSho will always be the crown jewel of their catalog, it's just a shame more people don't play them. If anyone's interested maybe we could have a night where we jump on Fightcade and play a few matches.
    "Money matches are against the law in Japan. They can never be good at Marvel." -4r5
  • Virtua_LeonVirtua_Leon Gal me seeeerious Joined: Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the boat is ukyo ss3.
    Yeah it's safe to say it's a series with the best characters the best stages the best music.
    I hope we see another real good ss game in my life time, i really wish they had scraped last blade and updated SS, i mean ss5sp is alright but you're running a game on an engine you made in 1996, it's not really acceptable
    AAAAAAAAS WE ENTER!
  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Sometimes It Snows In April... Joined: Posts: 3,239
    Ah that's right it is SS3.

    Maybe using the old engine was a way to try to get old heads back into it rather than overhauling it and potentially alienating everyone. I never got the sense that SS had the mass appeal that KoF does and they were probably just trying to play to the core audience they knew they had. I always kind of saw 5sp as something of a "best of SS so far" type of game. I've never played SS6 or Tenka, but weren't those pretty big departures?
    "Money matches are against the law in Japan. They can never be good at Marvel." -4r5
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,913
    Me too started with SS1 in the arcades. Then I had lost contact with the game but went to SS4 through emulation. Probably my most played game on emulator. Didnt play game for years and now I settled for SS2. Main Nakoruru, dont have time for anyone else.

    I actually prefer that type of fighter without the need to be ultra fast and learn various combos.
    blufang wrote: »
    I don't understand what happened with Samsho. Samsho1 when it came out in the arcades, was super popular....tons of people playing all the time. It was by far the most played SNK game I've ever seen. Samsho 2 was played too, but you didn't see it in as many arcades. Then it just dropped off the face of the earth.

    SNK messed up during the 3D transition era. SS 64 on Neo Geo Hyper 64 was never exported outside Japan and it didnt see a console release either. Even today it lacks proper emulation.
    Other contenders like Battle Arena Toshinden and Mace: the Dark Age werent that good to gain a steady fanbase. So this left the Souls series as the only quality contender for 3D weapons based fighters. SS Sen came too late and wasnt that good either

    So this left SNK with going back to 2D SS games which had turned less popular, leading to the series obscurity.
    too slow!
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    Thx petran, SS 64, yeah that never made it here. I thought it had already died out a lot by the time SS3 released though, at least in the US.

    Doctamario....I am in full agreement, Samurai Shodown is the crown jewel in SNK's fighting game catalogue.




  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,932
    edited April 2015
    The closet where going to get as modern samurai showdown influenced game is shin kohime fighter.
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  • DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
    edited April 2015
    blufang wrote: »
    Thx petran, SS 64, yeah that never made it here. I thought it had already died out a lot by the time SS3 released though, at least in the US.

    Doctamario....I am in full agreement, Samurai Shodown is the crown jewel in SNK's fighting game catalogue.

    We had SS64 for a little while in the local arcade. The game play is rough round the edges and certainly not competition worthy, but pretty fun to mess around with. I would even call it balanced, but only because damage is is absurd and everyone is overpowered. This is where the sword gauge made its debut. Here it's an endurance meter. Attacks don't drain it much, but depending on the fighter certain specials and maneuvering will empty it pretty quick. Run it dry and your fighter stops to catch their breath. Not a great idea really, but thankfully it's forgiving enough not to interfere too much and its presence allows for some character abilities that without it would be completely unworkable balance wise (See Galford).

    It also took some interesting move and design choices. Here's a few I recall off the top of my head:
    • Hanzo got a huge set of linkable CQC moves that make King's and Nina's look like amateur hour.
    • Kazuki now relies more on his fists than anything else, and he hits like a truck. Basically he's what would happen if you combined Heihachi and Paul Phoenix, then gave it a sword.
    • Galford also uses more punching and kicking in general. His Slash form lost Plasma Blade, but gained Strike Dog as a normal command. Bust Galford got the Plasma blade, and can stop it mid flight with a small explosion. Plasma break is a DP command and acts as a quick counter attack. Plasma Factor is the most interesting - it now works like an alternate fighting style you can turn on and off. He summons a huge lighting bolt on himself, and all of his attacks are electrified for ~*2 damage, but it drains your sword gauge like crazy while active.
    • Sogetsu is interesting too. His sword is now a crescent shaped blade about as long as he is tall, and he's got a ton of lunging moves that take advantage of the range.

    The graphics are a mixed bag. Models are pretty meh for the time, but particle effects are nice and the stages are very cool - several have multiple tiers and pay homage to previous games. Animation is obviously hand sequenced but still serviceable. Production value is off the charts - all the in game art is just beautiful, and there are loads of gorgeous mid fight cut scenes for fatalities, supers, victories, etc.

    It's too bad this was on such crappy hardware and didn't get some more production time to polish up the mechanics. It could have been a contender.

    DC
    Post edited by DCaskey on
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  • Bomberman3000Bomberman3000 The Headshaker Joined: Posts: 1,951
    I laugh.
    I think I had the most awesome memories with SSIV. Why? When it was at the arcade, there was for a little while, a mini scene for it. But as to how it was done with the group of guys...

    Player 1: Genjuro
    Player 2: Haohmaru

    Everyone else = irrelevant. Beginner grade, Slash mode, and just chop the fuck out of another until someone loses.
    Yeah, and it was hype.

    *sighs* So long ago...
    "What Strength!!
    But Don't forget,
    There are many guys like you, all over the world!!!"

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  • AtibaAtiba Joined: Posts: 69
    I have always admired the Samurai Showdown series but it plays so different from other fighters. I don't think I have the basics and "rhythm" of the game down pack let alone the advance techniques.

    Played a guy on fightcade and i was like "is this how its played".

    He played a great Rimururu. I tried to find tutorial videos and character breakdown videos but no luck. I'm still willing to learn tho'.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,269
    SS1 Wan Fu could beat everyone in 3 or 4 hits. His super meter is cheap as fuck. He builds meter faster than anyone and his meter is activated longer than anyone. The crossup flaming scimitar throw is cheap as well
  • weedianweedian Hechando Chingaso! Joined: Posts: 275
    fools acting like samsuoVI never existed... get yo asses on PSN and DL ASAP
    豆のおかげで俺が飛べるんだ!
  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,932
    Isn;t Samurai Shwodown VI look down by teh SS community? also PS2 port not so hot compare to Anthology version I hear
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  • The_AdventurerThe_Adventurer Joined: Posts: 147
    Playing VI on Wii Anthology... It strikes me as a very unbalanced game, with a really plain and shitty Ui, and the WORST case of sprite bluring I've ever seen.

    But, it's roster size and number of grooves make it a pretty fun game to actually play.
  • BzChoyBzChoy Only the finest poverty shit. Joined: Posts: 427
    weedian wrote: »
    fools acting like samsuoVI never existed... get yo asses on PSN and DL ASAP
    I have it on PS2, both US and JPN versions, hence why I asked questions about EX Galford and Gedo.
    keo-bas wrote: »
    Isn;t Samurai Shwodown VI look down by teh SS community? also PS2 port not so hot compare to Anthology version I hear
    It's the same, except nothing's unlocked out of the box. Also, the low damage might have turned off some old players. I understand, it's kinda offputting. There is also another change that old players didn't like that I don't understand yet so I'm gonna ask this now: the knockdown OS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in Tenka, a player can input an OS to punish both an opponent's tech rolls (the rolling one and the quick standing one). How is it done?

    Also, is there any good issen/Mu no Kyouchi setup with V-Shizu?
    My main: the most lame, cheesy, trollish character in your favorite game.

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  • DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
    BzChoy wrote: »
    weedian wrote: »
    fools acting like samsuoVI never existed... get yo asses on PSN and DL ASAP
    I have it on PS2, both US and JPN versions, hence why I asked questions about EX Galford and Gedo.

    Haven't played V/VSP or VI at a high enough level to tell you much about Gedo. As I understand it, he can roll trap you into command grab and repeat till you're dead, but that's all secondhand.

    As for Galford, could say for sure not playing VI yet, but I've got a pretty rough idea. In SSII a theoretical perfect play Hanzo or Galford is quite simply invincible. Obviously that's not close to possible for humans, but still, if you get past their execution barrier they can stand right up there with Uyko.

    They're just the kind of character designs that you have to reign in somehow to keep balanced - a high execution barrier (SSI/SSII), breaking their move sets in half (SSIII/SSIV/64) or nerfing the crap out of their HP and damage (SSV). But as it happens for Galford, the split move set WAY favors Bust. Why? Because Bust retains most of what makes Galford dangerous in SSII, but due to the different engine and being redesigned themselves the other characters aren't nearly as equipped to counter him. Anything he does lose compared to SSII is made up for with the lost execution barrier and new plasma tricks.

    This guy says it better than I could:
    neojedi
    10-23-2002, 03:04 PM
    Poppy's attack super in 64 is great, and Poppy in general makes Galford a fun char in every Samurai game he's in (even SS1!). About SS4 Galford though... (rant up ahead)

    Bust Galford played at the highest level in SS4 is overpowered to the point of invincibility. Out of a run, he can hit you with an overhead, a sweep, Dash Strike Heads, or a guard crush. He can guard crush into a crouching C, CD combo, or super. Plasma Break in many situations is unpunishable. CD attack is high-priority and super is combo-able. Shadow and Replica moves keep him out of trouble. A blocked Lightning Slash can be followed with Strike Heads if counterattack is not immediate. Plasma attacks hit multiple times when raged. And the crowning touch, Bust Galford is the most dangerous char without his sword and has damaging punch Plasma attacks which can be infinitely comboed.

    If that isn't enough, what would be the #1 char for beating Bust Galford, Slash Sogetsu, has a fatal flaw: against Galford only, Sogestsu's CD-combo is blockable on the 14th hit. Meaning that Sogetsu cannot Rage up without getting severly damaged or killing himself. The next best char, Slash Hanzo, is too slow in a pitched battle vs Galford to win most matches. Rage, Bakenryu, jumping C does not equalize.

    Slash Galford is not quite as nasty as Bust because the super is weaker and he does not have Strike Heads. But anyway, rant over, carry on. :o :)

    That said, some maniac did find a pretty crazy combo with Slash:



    Anyway, I would imagine things are no different for Bust Galford in SSVI, and considering how "loose" the game play looks, it wouldn't surprise me if he can pull several brain dead infinities off of Plasma Factor.


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  • CaptainGinyuCaptainGinyu Choppin Bricks Like Karate Joined: Posts: 1,978
    Great and underrated series, they were always trying to do something new with each game. Haohmaru is the only "Ryu" character that I fuck with.

    SS2 is a great game, so is SS5, the rest idk I haven't played them. The one for the N64 looks really sick though.
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  • BzChoyBzChoy Only the finest poverty shit. Joined: Posts: 427
    edited April 2015
    Okay, I tried what you @Virtua_Leon said about Gedo. I can land his command grab in recoil state, but not while hopping or rolling. Is there any shortcut trick or similar stuff that might be handy?

    Regarding EX Galford in Tenka, I just found out that he has a shadow copy glitch he can use to stall till the timer runs out. Now, this is stuff I only read about and it didn't have any more detail about it; it didn't even say how to perform it. So what, I just do shadow copy and hope the opponent never hits the real one? I don't get it.
    Post edited by BzChoy on
    My main: the most lame, cheesy, trollish character in your favorite game.

    Yeah, apparently people do play Advanced V.G. 2, well Japs do. Check it out, the grandaunt or some shit of anime games: Advanced V.G. 2 - JPN Competitive Matches
  • Virtua_LeonVirtua_Leon Gal me seeeerious Joined: Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hi mate there's a couple of things to remember you can do to make your life slightly easier.

    I'll still assume you're on about tenka gedo and not 5 sp gedo, regardless the same applies apart from the fact in tenka gedo has a hop and in 5sp he has a dash when you press forward forward.
    You have to remember that you're hopping you've already inputted the forward, so the input is no longer f,b,d,u+hs, instead in then becomes b,d,u+hs.

    This applies to sliding assuming you have a groove that has a slide like ss5 and ss2, the thing to remember with sliding is that for some stupid reason the game reads DF as forward to, so you're already inputting the forward when you initiate the slide, so the input then becomes df,b,d,u+hs.

    I cannot help with galford
    AAAAAAAAS WE ENTER!
  • OrochiDemonOrochiDemon Joined: Posts: 1,537
    A SS2 and 6 release on Steam would be amazing. Id love it.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,536
    I still play Samsho 2 on GGPO/Fightcade. I love chickens and bombs
  • CrimsonMoonMistCrimsonMoonMist Joined: Posts: 419
    A SS2 and 6 release on Steam would be amazing. Id love it.
    If there were to be a modern, non-mobile port of any Samsho games, I'd say we're well overdue for Samsho V Special.
    Though to be honest, I really want Samsho IV over anything else.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    A modern port of Samsho V special, with HD redrawn sprites and HD backgrounds by SNK, along with GGPO netcode would be a dream come true. Might be able to draw in some people who don't know about the game as well.

    Many masterpieces of art, or artistic geniuses don't get the credit they deserve til much later. Will Samsho ever get its day?





  • DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
    Tried to play some SS2 matches on FightCade, but could only watch. Challenge wouldn't work. Saw some decent games though. Try to watch anything on Youtube and it's mostly one Ukyo bore-fest after another.

    Minor rant alert: I get that some people like the character, but from a game play perspective he's just pure tedium to use, fight against, or watch. Swallow Swipe, Swallow Swipe, Swallow Swipe... repeat until someone twitches, Shadow Slide, jump back, Swallow Swipe, Swallow Swipe, Swallow Swipe... And since he has such low damage output it drags on forever. How could anyone enjoy that? Don't get me wrong, I prefer strategic play over blink and you miss it 500 hit combo mania, but there is a middle ground to be had and Ukyo isn't it. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't so over used - he's like the Samurai Shodown version of SSIV Ken.

    I would understand if he was really all that tough - but he isn't. Top tier yes, but nowhere near unbeatable. I REALLY miss killing him off with Galford and Cham-Cham back in the day.

    DC
    Nice to meet you. Anything personal you'd like to know can be found here. Want to build your own beat-em-up or any other 2D game? You should have a look here.
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,189
    Fighting Spirit was rekindled last weekend so I'm down for some fightcade action. Just need to get the ROMs working. I've only played 1 and 2 but wouldn't mind delving into the others. Unfortunately it only looks like Brazilians are on right now....

    :(
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A really good ukyo is extremely hard to beat. A straight 50/50 up close, excellent zoning, great whiff punishing, range and most of all high damage. I've never thought he was broken, but definitely O.Sagat level of top tier.

    Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
    Footsies guide: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpXplP_WFE
  • DCaskeyDCaskey Joined: Posts: 6
    A really good ukyo is extremely hard to beat. A straight 50/50 up close, excellent zoning, great whiff punishing, range and most of all high damage. I've never thought he was broken, but definitely O.Sagat level of top tier.

    Ukyo is a lot of things, but high damage isn't one of them. That's half the problem. He's so repetitive and boring it frustrates you into making stupid mistakes. Watching a Ukyo match, you know who's going to win in the first five seconds - but the match timer will be running out before he actually puts them away.
    Nice to meet you. Anything personal you'd like to know can be found here. Want to build your own beat-em-up or any other 2D game? You should have a look here.
  • RuffluvRuffluv Joined: Posts: 9
    SamSho along with Last Blade and Darkstalkers are to me the greatest fighting game gems left behind by poor management decisions from two major companies that were once upon a time competitive rivals when came to FGs. i remember being about 5 when samsho1 came into my neiborhood crowds mostly swarmed SF2 MK2 and SamSho1 from what i remember (i never got to play the second until Metal Slug came out). 4 and 5 special have become my favorites, special mostly because fatalities can happen to all characters like in the 1&2. it was always satisfying when i cut Rimururu, Mizuki, Kusaragedo, Galford and Amakusa in half. when Snk decides to bring back the very game that got them put on the map i hope they take some poiters from KOF13 and bring back Shimzumaru, Basara and Zankuro (i think the series CAN live without it's 2 magical cheap ass wizards).
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Tenka is one of my favorite fgs of all time.

    It made sense of the stupid hitstun of the previous games making it easier to do manual combos as opposed to just shitty dial-a-combos.

    Fixed the wonky ass hitboxes as good as they could.

    Multiple spirits meant everyone was viable.

    Most characters had almost or all of their moves from previous games, while most even gained new ones.

    Not as matchup driven anymore.

    You can't say you can't find anyone you want to play, due to the size of the roster

    Damage isn't random like 1,2, or 3.

    If you like items, you can turn them on.

    The controls are as tight as they're gonna get.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    My understanding about why the SS series ended up the way it did is that it actually wasn't that popular in Japan; It was SNKs "third tier" series after KoF and Fatal Fury, whereas over here in the US, it certainly did better than FF, and possibly better than KoF - at least, until SS started to tank thanks to the way SNK handled it.

    SS2 remains my favorite fighting game of all time, and it really shaped how I play these games. Somewhat to my detriment, I think, but whatever.
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    Never liked tenka. Ss2 was the last real ss game IMO. The other games are cheap, slow, shameful additions that tarnished the ss name.

    Ss2 was far from perfect, but it was a pokefest on steroids. They should have upgraded that gameplay style. The other games feel like they play under water. The dial a combo, the slowmotion meter, the push grabs into in your back infinites, the questionable characters that came after 4 and the 64 games etc all ruined the game. But what ruined it the most was snk not giving a fuck about ss anymore and replacing it with that shitty lb (which ironically is a better game) and pouring all their shit into kof and new 3d games that killed snk.

    That's the problem, if they never went past this line of thinking, we would have never gotten 5sp and Tenka, two games a lot of people truly love.

    SNK evolved the series past the year 1993/1994, when it's original fans were just SF cast offs. I'm glad they were not the deciding factor in the games past 3, lest we wouldn't have the games mentioned above.

    SS2 players have had a stranglehold on SS history for a long time, not allowing players of the other games to enjoy their games in public. The year is 2015, we're in the same fucking boat. Let's drop the superiority complex, ok?


    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    In the US, Samurai Shodown was by far the most popular SNK game. Everyone played SS1 and SS2. Everyone knew the series, and it was the first weapon fighter, it was like nothing else at the time.

    Fatal Fury, World Heroes, and Art of Fighting all got dubbed (inappropriately) as SF2 clones and the machines were empty if they were to be found at all. KOF...I don't remember even seeing the machines much in arcades.




  • The_AdventurerThe_Adventurer Joined: Posts: 147
    Did those games have stand alone cabinets? I thought those games were all on multi-game cabs.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    Yes stand alone cabinets. The multi game cabs came later.




  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    I'd rather they not make another if it plays like 2. No combos, huge slowdown, terrible controls, random damage, useless normals, shitty hitboxes, ect.

    Go play ST if that's what you want. Shit gets better over time, but some people want to stay in the past with Flintstone games and shit.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
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