Korean arcade parts discussion

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  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 303
    edited June 26

    There are multiple small holes at portions of the rubber grommet in the Fujin. For sure it's tougher than a stock Fanta. It's shaped exactly like the Fanta. I was able to put inside a Golden Fanta grommet with no problems.

    Antonio-o-o could confirm this, the fujin v2 grommet doesn't have any groove, although the general outline of the grommet is carbon coby of the fanta stock part. There are slight circular markings on the surface that come from the mold, but they do not seem to be grooves at all.
    Why no groove (apparently, still needs confirmation)? logic dictates that the 4 small holes in the corner are far too close to the spool platic bushing that supports the shaft. That is exactly in the vicinity of the groove that is present in a stock myungshin grommet, now gone in the fujin mod. The groove is where the elastomer flexes most and the grommet is thinnest, so holes in that region would lower dramatically the service life of a grommet. That is , it is not visible if ever there is one (a groove) and the possibility exists that it is displaced, of a smaller diam , hidden under the custom delrin "spool" bushing, even then it wouldn't be wise, for the reasons stated above.


    The Kaze grommet (forgot which version) has 4x3 small holes very close to the groove + 4 other holes located as in a stock fanta grommet, it's not the fujin that has 16 "softening" holes, it only has 4. I'm pretty sure you even posted about it a while ago, either here or on your website.

    Something else, the fujinV2 switch plate (and restrictor)...I have the strong impression the prototypes for this mod started with a SEIMITSU LS-32 steel plate, old version, flipped the other side, they drilled the necessary holes , then ditched the round opening (actual fujin is square , beveled) when doing the final , non-proto part, out of a virgin blank plate of metal (the round protrusions seem to not be the same).
    Intriguingly, the oldschool ls-32 switch plate had (edit) 1 hole at the edge of the plate, in one of the rounded protruding parts (but not in all 4, the three other served to secure the switches that's all) , they didn't serve any purpose in the ls-32, the plate was in fact also used by a fire-button battop joystick , le LSX31 by seimitsu , to hold the fire microswitch, that's why (see here https://image.ibb.co/gghxiQ/seimitsu_lsx31.jpg ). Now that the fire joystick is discontinued, seimitsu uses a new version ls-32 square plate without the rounded protruding parts.

    It is those round parts and the hole location in the fujin V2 that is so similar to the ls-32 part :

    Fujin V2 vs seimitsu LS-32 switch plate,old version, flipped, for ease of comparison
    fujin_v2_vs_flipped_ls_32.jpg




    Post edited by Agieze on
  • wazwuzwazwuz Golden Fanta & Crown Project Joined: Posts: 382
    rbuniao wrote: »
    I just recently got my Crown grommets set and I found that the hardest grommet is more flimsy than the 25a stock grommet on my 309mj. Also, I took apart my 309 Help Me lever since that was equipped with the 60a grommet that was made by Crown. It seems from my close observation that though both have the same hardness and thickness, the Crown one seems more stiffer than the one supplied by @wazwuz . Also, another observation that i saw was that the grooves in the Crown grommet as more shallower than the aftermarket one. I was wondering if the deep grooves contributed to the flimsiness of the aftermarket grommet.

    Hopefully, there's a revision of the Crown grommets for the Golden Crown project since the Golden Fanta mods were great.

    yes, it was based on old Crown 303 version. I will give another revised grommets for free when Golden crown is ready, and anyone else who have bought silicone crown grommets (old model). Please remaind me when you make order for golden crown.

    For now, I am still waiting replacement parts from Rohan to make my 309M became 309MJ.
    ArcadeStick-Indonesia.com
  • Antonio-o-oAntonio-o-o Joined: Posts: 331
    edited June 26
    I had a chance to finally test some of the Golden Fanta components this weekend, and I'd like to share some of those findings here. The Golden Fanta component testing pairings are as follows:

    Test 1: Clear-35a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator
    Test 2: Green-45a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator
    Test 3: Light Blue-55a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator

    And for posterity's sake, I'll state that I used a Taeyoung lever, not a Myoungshin, and Panasonic/Matsushita AM51630C69N microswitches (180gf) for all 3 tests. As well I used the stock Taeyoung shaft, though I couldn't tell you if it measures the 8mm or 9mm unfortunately.


    Test 1
    First was the clear-35a. In my testing, sadly, I found it to be far too soft to have much redeeming value. I guess that's the great thing about this project, that @wazwuz blessed us with as many options as he did, as @VarmintBaby mentioned that this was his most favored grommet. Though unfortunately I found this grommet nearly unplayable. The combination of the light tension, coupled with the added weight of the bronze actuator (8x the weight of stock?) would create this this pendulous deflection that can at times be too out-of-control if the player isn't mindful of the possibility. I could just foresee issues with that combination. I didn't test the grommet with the stock 16.5mm (plastic) actuator, as I imagine that may curb this amped deflection. Even still, the grommet simply wasn't the clear winner for me here.

    Test 2
    Next up was the green-45a. This was superior to the clear-35a in every way, though not a huge step obviously (with it only being a step up of 10a). It was preferable, though not ideal. It just didn't have the responsiveness I was looking for (& accustomed to). I didn't have high expectations for this one, as there was so much left to be desired by the clear-35a. I almost knew I wouldn't be getting closer to that "Goldilocks" lever until the ~50-60 tension grommets, but I wanted to assure myself that there wouldn't be any surprises in the green-45--there were not. Though certainly, the man himself (@wazwuz) stated earlier in this thread that he prefers this grommet overall. So it looks like they all do not go without their merit in the hands of the correctly matched player.

    Test 3
    And finally, the light blue-55a, was approaching the behavior I've come to expect from Fanta levers. This felt the closer to stock of the 3 (for what that's worth), though I haven't yet tested the dark blue-60a grommet. As a caveat, I will say that I've tested a silicone 60a ASI grommet in the past, though this was very early on in the beginning stages of the current Golden Fanta project, as the grommets didn't yet possess the 4 corner holes, so the experience may differ now that they do. As a matter of fact I still own that silicone 60a (without the holes); I could maybe do a comparison test in the future. But back to the light blue-55a; it has the quick(er) return to neutral, a predictable deflection (that is to say it isn't as wild as the previous lighter tension silicone grommets), and simply put it was the most fitting of the 3 grommets tested with my current setup (explained above). Now as much as I enjoyed playing on this pairing--which was ~100 games of T7--I still can't with confidence say that I prefer it to my old set up of an ASI nitrile 50a grommet + Gersung A2s + 16.5 stock Myoungshin actuator. It's close, and maybe with some more tweaking, I can find that bowl of porridge I enjoy the most.


    Now, I should take this opportunity to say that as it stands right now, I still prefer the action of Fanta grommets composed of nitrile rubber over both latex and silicone. Nothing comes close to curbing deflection, whilst also increasing neutral return, and still keeping the resistance in that zone that feels broken in out of the box than nitrile. It's superior in my opinion. It'd be my personal recommendation that ASI pursues more (or at least equal) nitrile options for both Fanta & Crown levers going forward.

    Also, I think this was hit upon earlier in this thread, but I wanted to add to the notion that one can almost neglect the hardness rating of these grommets, as they can only be compared versus another grommet of the same chemical composition. For example, if a player wanted to mimic the identical hardness of a stock Myoungshin (~45a-50a) latex grommet, one couldn't just swap this out in favor of the ASI green-45a silicone grommet. The action is different. That isn't to say that it won't be close, but as a reference, one would have to go up ~10a in hardness when coming from latex to silicone to mimic the same resistance. Though again, the action will still remain very unique from one to the other.

    @wazwuz
    Thank you for everything you've supplied myself, those who follow this thread, and as well some lucky few others with components that we'd only be dreaming of, if not for you to come along with your contribution. I'm sure I can speak for everyone in saying that your service has been invaluable, and we do not take it for granted. I look forward to what you'll unveil next.
  • Antonio-o-oAntonio-o-o Joined: Posts: 331
    @Agieze
    Sadly I do not have access to a Fujin v2. Though I should probably just bite the bullet and order one from makestick. From what I remember, the Fujin's grommet (minus the pivot) appears similar to the ASI/Golden Fanta grommets: with the 4 corner holes that go completely through the grommets.

    Interesting observation on the similarities between the Seimitsu mounting plate & the Fujin's. You're probably right about that.
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 303
    edited June 26
    @Agieze
    Sadly I do not have access to a Fujin v2. Though I should probably just bite the bullet and order one from makestick. From what I remember, the Fujin's grommet (minus the pivot) appears similar to the ASI/Golden Fanta grommets: with the 4 corner holes that go completely through the grommets.

    Interesting observation on the similarities between the Seimitsu mounting plate & the Fujin's. You're probably right about that.

    Good observation on your part too. The holes in stock fanta grommet may be just mold push-out pin locations, since they don't go completely through, I also highly doubt the change in input force is noticeable with such tiny and far placed (pin)holes, funny thing is their existence inspired the people who made the fujin, kaze, golden fanta grommets, although this time the holes are self-admitted intentional part of the design.
  • DJ-BlitzDJ-Blitz Power Is Everything Joined: Posts: 159
    edited June 27
    @Agieze
    Sadly I do not have access to a Fujin v2. Though I should probably just bite the bullet and order one from makestick. From what I remember, the Fujin's grommet (minus the pivot) appears similar to the ASI/Golden Fanta grommets: with the 4 corner holes that go completely through the grommets.

    Interesting observation on the similarities between the Seimitsu mounting plate & the Fujin's. You're probably right about that.

    Fujin v2 grommet for anyone interested. I'd grab some caliper measurements of the bushing, but it's currently in use.
    MZZRcDt.jpg
    o524nfF.jpg
    Post edited by DJ-Blitz on
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 303
    Thanks for the pic!!

    okaaaayyy, so the side I saw some time ago was the grooveless one, which led me to think it didn't ahve any grooves at all.
    On the grooved side, the holes are definitely going through the grooved flex zone . Not a big fan of that kind of concept .
    We can see the additional "halfway through" holes (which are probably just push out points ) in the four corners (same as stock myungshin) on the grooved side as well.
  • AznSensation45AznSensation45 Joined: Posts: 14
    Hey guys, I here is my two cents on the recent Golden Fanta batch after a week of playing.

    I have tested almost all combinations and unfortunately I couldn't find anything I like. This maybe because I only have gersung switches from stock myoungshin and crown 303 to play around with.

    Anything less than 50a was unplayable for me so I will group my thoughts on them together. First the silicone is way too light for me. I prefer not being able to feel the gate, but even a small amount of movement would have me hitting the gate unless I tried to be really compact with my movements which then led to me to the issue of it not returning to neutral fast enough. wave, wave, ewgf, ewgf, turned into dash, df+2. This became worse with the shorter throw and larger actuator because you would be engaged in the switches longer and earlier. It did feel smooth though. 45a felt more like stock 303 crown from what I remember. I could still engage in corners, but I also got a lot of deflection and would have to force the stick into neutral instead of letting it naturally hit neutral.

    50a was getting better, but I still suffered from the same issues as above. Mostly riding the gate and not having neutral soon enough. If I slowed my technique down and really thought about it, I could make things work. However in a match situation this is not ideal.

    55a was actually a little more stiff than my stock rubber. With the combination of my switches and using the smaller actuator, it reminded me of using the 60a rubber from ASI with the crown 303fk with stock switches because it was stiff and return to neutral was good, but I wouldn't get any corners unless I forced them. At this point using a larger actuator with stock switches is the only option for me. I went back to 45a at this point to give it another chance since I didn't want to feel like I need to wrestle with the stick to play.

    60a: Not anything new because I had a chance to try this grommet when testing the Kowal universal plate and kit to make the fantas work on Japanese mounting/hole sticks. I used this grommet the most because it works with my playstyle. Like the 55a grommet, the smaller actuator didn't work out and I would get a lot of missed corners. The larger actuator does make life a lot easier. I have been sticking to the 8mm shaft for most of the higher tension stuff because having a shorter throw was really weird to me.

    Final Verdict: I am sticking with 60a/8mm shaft/16.5mm actuator because its the only one I feel like I can use. The higher tension grommets seem to only be playable with the bigger actuator and stiffer microswitches. The panasonic switches would make life much better, but at this moment with what I have to work with I haven't found a combination that is comfortable, but lets me play the way I want to. This is just me though so I am sure everyone else is having much different results. Thanks to the support for this mod though I am starting to get closer to finding the perfect stick for me.
  • wazwuzwazwuz Golden Fanta & Crown Project Joined: Posts: 382
    @jey-are @Antonio-o-o
    Thank you for your feedback, I really glad finally you can enjoy Fanta the way you want it. Knowing more people were pleased with my work really encurage me to do more. I have more crazier mod in my mind to make K-stick more customizeable and improve it's performance, and at some point I will make my own version of K-stick that will include heavy modding that only can be done in workshops.

    @AznSensation45
    I'm sorry you haven't find your perfect K-stick. From the issue you have, I suggest you to try panasonic switches, I see many user (including me) like it and perfect match for Golden mod.
    But don't worry, if fanta is not your perfect K-stick, then maybe your can find it on project Golden Crown.

    Golden Crown project.
    For seniors K-stick enthusiasm, please give me your input:
    I see Crown have spring on the grommets, do this spring will act like shockabsorber for deflection? If yes, then this will benefit lighter grommets.
    Do the 309MJ (chopped collar) have the same travel with 309M (collarless) using its stock 9mm shaft?
    I see crown have more grouped switches placement about 1mm less than fanta, will this make easier to hit diagonal or the same with fanta ? (both using stock actuator).
    What parts do you want to include in projcet Golden Crown?
    ArcadeStick-Indonesia.com
  • ProgressiveBalanceProgressiveBalance Lili - Heihachi - Akuma - Evil Ryu - Wolverine - Zero - Scorpion - Baiken - Mitsurugi Joined: Posts: 242
    @wazwuz, the same as the first Golden Fanta batch. Multiple sizes of actuators, a few Sanwa shaped actuators, more variety in tension grommet and larger and shorter throw shafts. I don't think the crowns need a switch support like the Fanta.

    Also, it might be useful to play around with the spring inside the crown. By this I mean with or without, maybe even trying different spring tensions.
  • KrAzYsTePKrAzYsTeP Still here Joined: Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Where can anyone get Panasonic Switches without buying an entire stick that has them?
    PART OF RTSD, INC. IN ASSOC. WITH TEAM DUMA!!!

    TEAM LEAN + NINJAS + VOLTRON = GGPO
  • FatalFRAMEFatalFRAME Joined: Posts: 121
    edited June 27
    Are the collars on k sticks supposed to be higher than the surface of the base? Is it like this at Korean arcades as well?
    Post edited by FatalFRAME on
  • XaviusXavius Joined: Posts: 25
    2-3 mm above the top panel.
  • FatalFRAMEFatalFRAME Joined: Posts: 121
    Oh ok, ty.
  • ProgressiveBalanceProgressiveBalance Lili - Heihachi - Akuma - Evil Ryu - Wolverine - Zero - Scorpion - Baiken - Mitsurugi Joined: Posts: 242
    @FatalFRAME, that's correct unless you get a 303MJ or 309MJ. Those sticks are supposed to fit Japanese sticks.
  • Ghost CobraGhost Cobra Lever Execution Joined: Posts: 338 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ordered
    https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-309mj-jms-st25-joystick-clear-white/

    just got in mail
    5952c29322c3920a9b33f885.jpg
    5952c29522c3920a9b33f886.jpg
    5952c29622c3920a9b33f887.jpg

    bastard child of 303 and 309, or am I missing something???

  • slaycruzslaycruz Joined: Posts: 1,320
    ordered
    https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-309mj-jms-st25-joystick-clear-white/

    just got in mail
    5952c29322c3920a9b33f885.jpg
    5952c29522c3920a9b33f886.jpg
    5952c29622c3920a9b33f887.jpg

    bastard child of 303 and 309, or am I missing something???


    I hope you address this with them...this is unacceptable
    Previous signature removed per hakdizzles request in order to obtain voltech stick.....
  • rbuniaorbuniao Joined: Posts: 182
    ordered
    https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-309mj-jms-st25-joystick-clear-white/

    just got in mail
    5952c29322c3920a9b33f885.jpg
    5952c29522c3920a9b33f886.jpg
    5952c29622c3920a9b33f887.jpg

    bastard child of 303 and 309, or am I missing something???

    Looks like IST sent Focus Attack the 303mj instead of the 309mj
    303MJ

    I noticed that @wazwuz was sent the wrong order from them as well.
  • LordFuLordFu Joined: Posts: 55
    Does it have the thicker grommet? I don't see any actual difference described on the makestick site. The plastic color is different, but everything else looks the same.
  • Ghost CobraGhost Cobra Lever Execution Joined: Posts: 338 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    rbuniao wrote: »

    Looks like IST sent Focus Attack the 303mj instead of the 309mj
    303MJ

    I noticed that @wazwuz was sent the wrong order from them as well.

    ty I did not know this, after original 303 Jp mount I abandoned crown products for good.
    I only ordered this because I tried out out my friends 309 and wanted to mess with it.
    > < I want the 309 actuator !

  • KrAzYsTePKrAzYsTeP Still here Joined: Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 27
    I just ordered 1 myself from Paradise Arcade hopefully i don't get the same treatment. Hopefully they get you sorted out and anyone else that may have encountered this problem/
    PART OF RTSD, INC. IN ASSOC. WITH TEAM DUMA!!!

    TEAM LEAN + NINJAS + VOLTRON = GGPO
  • blankaexblankaex Joined: Posts: 126
    I ordered both of my 309 Helpmes from Makestick directly at different times and I've gotten the right thing both times but ymmv.
  • SpennyTeaSpennyTea Joined: Posts: 2
    KrAzYsTeP wrote: »
    I just ordered 1 myself from Paradise Arcade hopefully i don't get the same treatment. Hopefully they get you sorted out and anyone else that may have encountered this problem/
    I just got a one from Paradise Arcade so you should be good. It was quite dusty but otherwise perfect.
  • KrAzYsTePKrAzYsTeP Still here Joined: Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @SpennyTea Good to know i should receive my 309MJ in like a day or 2 along with some sdb buttons
    PART OF RTSD, INC. IN ASSOC. WITH TEAM DUMA!!!

    TEAM LEAN + NINJAS + VOLTRON = GGPO
  • VarmintBabyVarmintBaby Joined: Posts: 551
    Why is the etokki Omni Korean stick never in stock on their site? Do they offer it every once in a while?
    "Play the game to learn not to win. Do this and winning will start to come all on its own." - some smart guy
  • ScotchScotch Joined: Posts: 110
    rbuniao wrote: »

    Looks like IST sent Focus Attack the 303mj instead of the 309mj


    I noticed that @wazwuz was sent the wrong order from them as well.

    ty I did not know this, after original 303 Jp mount I abandoned crown products for good.
    I only ordered this because I tried out out my friends 309 and wanted to mess with it.
    > < I want the 309 actuator !

    Good to know I might not be getting a 309MJ haha. Thanks for the heads up.
  • The PhantomnautThe Phantomnaut Too obsessive over Korean arcade parts. Joined: Posts: 1,785
    edited June 28
    Why is the etokki Omni Korean stick never in stock on their site? Do they offer it every once in a while?

    I would check the Twitter feed for updates. Laugh usually lets people know when they are available.
  • DAyalaDAyala Joined: Posts: 53
    edited June 28
    Man when is the Infiltration stick getting released? Feels like its never coming out lol.
  • SpennyTeaSpennyTea Joined: Posts: 2
    DAyala wrote: »
    Man when is the Infiltration stick getting released? Feels like its never coming out lol.

    Focus Attack mentioned that their supplier said that it was delayed until some time in July.
  • PobegaPobega supreme scrublord Joined: Posts: 305
    Are Panasonic switches pref
    rbuniao wrote: »
    ordered
    https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-309mj-jms-st25-joystick-clear-white/

    just got in mail
    5952c29322c3920a9b33f885.jpg
    5952c29522c3920a9b33f886.jpg
    5952c29622c3920a9b33f887.jpg

    bastard child of 303 and 309, or am I missing something???

    Looks like IST sent Focus Attack the 303mj instead of the 309mj
    303MJ

    I noticed that @wazwuz was sent the wrong order from them as well.

    Did you get any information from FocusAttack on this? Curious if this is just blue for some reason, or if it's a a 303MJ base/actuator, which would kind of worry me since I wanted a 309MJ. (mine is in transit)
  • UnicornSlayaUnicornSlaya Joined: Posts: 20
    I got this from the focus attack thread:

    Ghost Cobra,

    I spoke to my supplier and learn that a clerical mistake at Samdusksa caused a big error. Somehow, the Samducksa salesperson placed an order for "CWL-303MJ-JMS-ST25". This a configuration that wasn't normal, but the factory went ahead with it. That means the body indeed does have the 303 frame and actuator. This is definitely not what we ordered; neither my supplier knew nor I because they are shipped in their own individual boxes. He said that 50 units were affected - none of the HELPME models were affected. All of the MJ's we had sold out within the last two weeks or receiving them, so this CWL-303 configuration is in the wild.

    Samducksa is now acutely aware of the mistake, and has begin an immediate reshipment. My hope is to receive a new shipment in a week or so.

    That said, there is an additional issue with the microswitch. Both Samducksa/Crown and Seimitsu used Panasonic microswitches for their Japanese configurations. Unfortunately, there are no more units available to source from Panasonic, as the company has left the microswitch business. I mentioned before that the new LS-32 will use an Omron microswitch as a result of this unexpected announcement from Panasonic. This affects Samducksa because they don't yet have an alternative Japanese microswitch. This means they are sending a Korean microswitch in its place, and all future models will use Korean switches until further notice. If any other vendors are selling them, they will eventually run into this issue as well.

    For now, I can ship a new unit to you with a return label to get the odd unit back or email a pre-paid return label and issue a refund once received. For domestic customers that have purchased a 309-MJ unit up to two weeks ago and see this message, please email orders@focusattack.com, and we'll get units swapped. International customers we'll sort out on a case-by-case basis.
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 303
    edited June 28
    "The company left the microswitch business" : Samducksa and Seimitsu cut ties with Panasonic, Panasonic still produces microswitches, the new "replacements" have redesigned actuators along with an elastomer membrane to make it splash/dust proof, the Operating force range is not as interesting as before (only a couple of values, custom orders are probably possible though, as usual).
    The new models from Panasonics are called ABV from the Turquoise line (I posted about this a few times, with links) and costs too much compared to the discontinued AM5, almost as much as the D2RV from Omron.
    That is possibly the real reason certain gaming companies have cut ties with Panasonic, that is, Sanwa doesn't back away from Omron's expensive reed switches simply because they have an agreement since the PCB switch assemblies have entered their line for the JLF a few decades ago (there are interviews about this, Sanwa&omron claim they invented the concept for joysticks) and Omron did some engineering for them, supposedly, even before they had the PCB versions.
    Post edited by Agieze on
  • ProgressiveBalanceProgressiveBalance Lili - Heihachi - Akuma - Evil Ryu - Wolverine - Zero - Scorpion - Baiken - Mitsurugi Joined: Posts: 242
    @Agieze, now I'm really interested in trying out these new ABV switches as well as the new omron seimitsu switches.

    What are the best places to buy these switches and what is the name of the LS-300's switches.

    Does anybody have any experience with this turquoise line? Do you have any recommendations?
  • platynumxplatynumx Because I have willed it. Joined: Posts: 140
    edited June 29
    I guess I've played with the golden fanta stuff long enough to do my review. And I suck at reviews so bear with me.

    The clear grommet doesn't have enough resistance to keep from deflecting towards opposite side and activating opposite direction switch if you're not prepared for it's deflection.too soft imo.

    The sky blue grommet felt like it had slightly less tension/resistance than stock fanta grommet to me.
    I was looking for something that felt more like 309helpme tension/resistance.

    The dark blue grommet felt exactly like the stock fanta grommet to me. With that said I didn't try the red grommet ,as said earlier I was looking for less tension/resistance.

    You may have noticed I've omitted the green one thus far. I like it. It had the feel I was looking for.

    All grommets were tested with the 16mm actuator and 10mm shaft.

    After settling on the green grommet my 309helpme that I purchased just to take switches off came in. Those switches made this setup feel so much better.So at the moment my fanta is using the green grommet,16mm actuator,10mm shaft ,Panasonic switches and the switch support.

    I do want to talk about the switch support before I hit the post button. I feel this thing is a huge upgrade on its own. I don't know if my fanta is the average fanta but the holes for the screws of switches wasn't smooth or level at all and the switches kind of sat cockeyed and only got worse as the screw tightened.It was like that the day I received it brand new.i can only imagine how much play they had if the stick was banged hard enough. I don't feel I overtightened the screws but tightening them made the switch more angled. Where they seemed flat they would wobble from lack of pressure. Enter the support plate. As screws tighten and the switch begins to angle around it has nowhere to go but flush up against the plate. No more play/wobble from the switch = more immediate response from switch. I see why most of the modded Korean sticks have support of some kind for the switches.
    Post edited by platynumx on
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 303
    edited July 4
    @ProgressiveBalance
    Where to buy? As always, if arcade parts retailers do not stock them, you have to bet on some site that deals with these types of switches as replacement parts for vacuum cleaners, microwave ovens etc, or simply buy from Mouser, Digikey etc (don't be surprised witht the extra fees that pile up, nor with the MOQ)

    Omron? The V series is known in gaming, but VX and D3V are similar (if not exactly the same) in terms of actuation. Vx and D3V, in hinge levertype, do not go higher than 125,4 gf operating force, it's good for ls-32 ls-40 use but i you want stiffer (such as 180gf models from Panasonic, discontinued line AM5) , there's only the V series which is available in hinge lever type at 60.16gf (semi-light) , 125.4gf (medium like in ls-32) , 249.83 ~ 250gf (stiff, compares with some of the stiffest from Gersung).
    I say it is not worth the trouble -at all- . Actuation specs show relatively high operating point (actuates high in theory), but some hysteresis problem in the mechanisme lets the switch go as far as 4mm for max pretravel (Panasonic AM5 is max 3.2). I already posted in detail about Omron vs GErsung, Gersung has apart from the operating forces which are not clearly specified, exxactly the same actuation values as a V series Omron. Gersung is a less expensive, reliable clone, so don't bother paying 2-4 dollars for a switch when you can get a Gersung.
    Example , the switch used by Wazwuz, the 125gf V-152-1A5 hinge lever by Omron, whose carbon copy is the Gersung GSM-V162**A2. The omron is not more sensitive, it's placebo.




    The V-15G2-1A5 (discontinued but sometimes available on the web) had better actuation specs than all other V series hinge lever switches in the same catalog.This "G" version (G= gap of 0.5mm instead of 1mm, an option normally seen in D3V switches only, it quickly disappeared from the V series catalog) has only 3.3 max pretravel (compared to the 4mm of the non "G" actual version) , 15.2 operating point , 0.8mm differential (distance above operating point, shows where it resets, small values are preferred). VERY similar to the famed AM5 Panasonic people are farming today in fear of not seeing them anymore.
    I saw some V-15G2-1A5-K on Mouser ( http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/V-15G2-1A5-K/?qs=1tDaWCEHQQ7JgCpKcD5gKw== ) . Price is ...meh.


    I already posted extensively on the ABV by Panasonic, linking to the official catalog , I selected for a fellow from the forum two models that would fit as good replacements (but expensive replacements) for the AM5 switches seen in Seimitsu ls-32, ls-40...since they have very good actuating sepcs (better than actual omron & gersung of similar type) . Alas for you, it doesn't go above 120gf for hinge lever, but if it suits you why not ("A2" Gersung has exactly same operating force) . They specify that you can contact them for other possibilities (do you have the cash to produce thousands of units? )
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/11276220#Comment_11276220

    ABV : spdt version 15A, 120gf ABV1212503
    spst-no : ABV1232503

    All suppliers state "limited supply", "contact us for restock" blablabla. It means you need to fork out cash and be ready for a big MOQ. Or ask someone from an arcades parts store to invest in those switches (personally at 5-8 dollars a pop, I find that too expensive for a snap action switch, plus we don't need the splash protection ) .

    Post edited by Agieze on
  • ProgressiveBalanceProgressiveBalance Lili - Heihachi - Akuma - Evil Ryu - Wolverine - Zero - Scorpion - Baiken - Mitsurugi Joined: Posts: 242
    edited June 29
    @Agieze thanks for the links. From what I understand, I might just be better off buying some seimitsu new old stock switches from an arcade parts shop. I had thought that the new Panasonic switches would be more accessible.
    Just spoke to rohan, a staff member over at makestick, and he has explained why the 309MJ's switches keep changing. Crown cannot keep supplying gersungs as they do not have the stock. They have now started supplying 309MJs with Panasonic Matsushita switches instead. There the same Thai switches found on the Kaze.
    Agieze wrote: »
    "The company left the microswitch business" : Samducksa and Seimitsu cut ties with Panasonic, Panasonic still produces microswitches, the new "replacements" have redesigned actuators along with an elastomer membrane to make it splash/dust proof, the Operating force range is not as interesting as before (only a couple of values, custom orders are probably possible though, as usual).
    The new models from Panasonics are called ABV from the Turquoise line (I posted about this a few times, with links) and costs too much compared to the discontinued AM5, almost as much as the D2RV from Omron.
    That is possibly the real reason certain gaming companies have cut ties with Panasonic, that is, Sanwa doesn't back away from Omron's expensive reed switches simply because they have an agreement since the PCB switch assemblies have entered their line for the JLF a few decades ago (there are interviews about this, Sanwa&omron claim they invented the concept for joysticks) and Omron did some engineering for them, supposedly, even before they had the PCB versions.

    This is getting too confusing for me. What switches are going to be on crowns next?
  • rbuniaorbuniao Joined: Posts: 182
    wazwuz wrote: »
    Golden Crown project.
    For seniors K-stick enthusiasm, please give me your input:
    I see Crown have spring on the grommets, do this spring will act like shockabsorber for deflection? If yes, then this will benefit lighter grommets.
    Do the 309MJ (chopped collar) have the same travel with 309M (collarless) using its stock 9mm shaft?
    I see crown have more grouped switches placement about 1mm less than fanta, will this make easier to hit diagonal or the same with fanta ? (both using stock actuator).
    What parts do you want to include in projcet Golden Crown?

    Since I do own both the chopped collar version (309mj) and the regular collar version (309 Help Me) I didn't notice any difference in shaft travel. They seem to be at the same angle when they do touch the gate.

    Besides different variety of grommets I'd also would like to see the same variants of actuator sizes and shaft thickness like the Golden Fanta Mod. From my own personal experience with using my Crown 309 setups and the Golden Fanta Mod setup I find diagonals on the Golden Fanta mod were much better and consistent than the stock offerings on the Crown. In regards to direction inputs I felt that the 16mm actuator from the Golden Fanta Mod made the spacing more even than the 309 (in which I felt that I was hitting diagonals much early and at times I'll input a forward jump while doing qcf commands and dashing forward).

    Although, I do admit I was using some micro-switches harvested from a Seimitsu LS-300 lever so it may or may not affected the outcome of the Golden Fanta Setup that i'm currently using.

    NSF9Pvf.jpg

    So far, I'm really enjoying the setup that I currently using (Omron Switches/50a light blue grommet/stock 9mm fanta shaft/16mm actuator).

    Though, i should be getting some Gersung A3 switches this week and I'll be testing those out as well. Hopefully, I can finalize my setup before Evo.
  • VarmintBabyVarmintBaby Joined: Posts: 551
    Holy crap Antonio that was a novel!
    "Play the game to learn not to win. Do this and winning will start to come all on its own." - some smart guy
  • KrAzYsTePKrAzYsTeP Still here Joined: Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @wazwuz I cant wait till they get your 309MJ sorted out, i wanna see whats in store for the mods so i may get a crack at them myself this time around.
    PART OF RTSD, INC. IN ASSOC. WITH TEAM DUMA!!!

    TEAM LEAN + NINJAS + VOLTRON = GGPO
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