Bison (dictator) Thread

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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    The lp crusher can function but always make me think a lot because, yes u can perform as a reversal and has 3 frames of invincibility but doesnt lift until 12th frame so you have 9 frames where u can be grabbed from zangief that after the body splash that is a air attack dont have recovery frame and also dont have start up frames for the spd because is a throw.

    I think this solution is very difficult and nearly impossible if the zangief player has a perfect timing.

    Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

    I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

    Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

    The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

    If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

    Thoughts?
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  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Exactly, I was thinking this myself.

    I could be worng on this... Wouldn't be the first time....

    Take a regular kick throw character. Lets say Chun doing St. Strong> Strong tick throw.

    The game option selects the throw/ normal move.

    If the input for the throw is input on the first frame in the LP PC start up, during those 3 inv. frames, the normal up close strong would come out, (the game has no missed frames) and would then hit on it's 4th frame in the remainder of Dic's start up; koncking him out of the PC.

    Thoughts?

    I think your right Fatboy. I don't think the jab PC hits until later than 4 frames. Dic's best bet is a reversal throw. If the opponent has a farther throw range than you and is out of your range than all you can do is hope they screw up (if you don't have Super).

    I've heard people talk about the jab PC but really your better off trying a fast normal or Scissor Kick. There is only 3 frames of invc., it doesn't hit until the later frames and he stays on the ground for more than enough time to get thrown, jab PC DOES NOT WORK (unless opponent completely screws his tick throw).
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Good Point(s).

    The logical approach is to use a Scissor kick (they all have 8 start up frames, but Dic "actually" lifts off the ground after the first 3).

    Here's the frame data from YBH in case anyone would like to know: LP PC: 18, 32, 16 (first 3 frames are invincible). Scissor Kick: 8, 18, 10 (11, and 12 recovery frames, respectively for Foward and RH) Dic lifts off ground immediately, but the game only counts it after the first 3 (i.e. Gief can still throw you on first three frames).
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  • ejdgeejdge Joined: Posts: 677
    How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    At last all capcom classic olympic in Kyoto i have also seen yuuvega doing this and looking at his hands i have seen that he jumps, then press forward and back quite together. This requires times and many experience.
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

    It works on most people and some in the corner I believe, not sure.

    You just jump forward and hit mk. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
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  • ejdgeejdge Joined: Posts: 677
    At last all capcom classic olympic in Kyoto i have also seen yuuvega doing this and looking at his hands i have seen that he jumps, then press forward and back quite together. This requires times and many experience.

    So I hit forward then back really fast?

    Yeah I'm not talking about the normal jumping mk. Here's what I'm talking about
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=P9vduowH0i4

    It's the first thing he does to the Zangief player once he knocks him down.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    when yuuvega was doing that i was just some steps behind him and from what i have seen, from near he was jumping and that hit back and forward. He was able to hit very near to the ground. However yuuvega is yuuvega...my opinion is that the key is to start from very near, infact also in ur video i see before a meaty overkick. However i am testing this me too just in this days. If i have some news i will post.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    :tup:
    How do you do Dic's backwards j.forward overhead? I've seen Taira do it a ton yet I can't get the timing down. Does it only work on specific characters?

    This is exactly how u can do it (1 way might be others). Yuuvega is incorporating a method I use to escape quickly with ken's reverse juice kick. The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward Kick, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. I plan on doing more testing on why this works like this. I wonder about a lot of things in ST like guile's actual input, why some moves don't requires entire motion (360), and how inputs like the above work. When I'm done I'll be sure to post unless someone has already explained this phenomenon.

    This method works 10/10 times for me and is easy/safe (IMO).
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    :tup:

    . The motion is to start at down roll your finger to back+foward, then quickly up/twds. Yes, you press up/twds your opp. this "slings" you away in the opp. direction. ...

    Forward Kick? Just to be clear. I am not a Vega player. Took me a few reads to figure it out.:sweat:

    PS. Thanks BTW.
    PPS. Does method work with Chun's mk stomp as well?
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    I tried performing chun's mk stomp, um...I wasn't able to do it consistently b/c you have to hit dn+mK. I did the following motion: dn/away, up/twd, dn+mk. This is extrememly difficult IMO. Thanks for the correction, I meant Foward Kick, I never put foward or backward in a motion, confusing depending on the side; I always put towards or away.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ok men, here we are, i tested the special overhead, it function against: Blanka, Zangief, Guile, Dhalsim, Bison (boxer) and Sagat.

    If someone have seen a video where it function against other character post here.
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Is there any use for some things I noticed, mainly meaty cr.mk st.lk xx headstomp and I noticed you can get a frame or 2 of cr.rh out before scissors.

    any use?
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  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,807 mod
    This may be a dumb question, but I was playing against a Chun-Li recently and her lightning legs were fucking me over. Knee Press and Psycho Crusher were inconsistent in breaking through. I take it there are some specific frames in the lightning leg animation that the Psycho Crusher/Knee Press will beat out?

    Any advice on how to deal with this match up overall? I was getting ran over pretty hard.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Abuse of jumping back medium punches for defence, j.forward C3 when she is discending a jumb, standing rh/forward against adoken or hp from distance. Attention in antiair attack u need a good timing, for antiair attacks abuse of also jumping straight rh.
    And then u can also use the hover cross up when she makes an ukemi even if she is not in the corner. A really short distance s.C1 combo or throw. J
    ump in combo of j.forward rh - crouching forward xx psycho crusher.
    Head press win over upperkicks.
    Psycho crusher win against lighting legs if u are in the hitting frames and she is not, however the kicks is a seguence of hitting and non hitting frames so better if u dont use it, or use at the end when she is recovering.
  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,807 mod
    Thanks for the info Denki. :woot:
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hello! I started to play Dic, and he is pretty funny!! But i have problems connecting his j.mk, s.lk, c.mk --> sissor, any tips with the timming? or this combo only works with specific characters? :wonder:

    Gg gL & hF!!!
  • AirthrowAirthrow Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

    Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

    If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...
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  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    also, you have to make sure and press forward only for the scissors, not just down-forward.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:
    Have you tried just doing st. lk, then cr. mk then scissors, then adding the jump in later?

    Charge d/b to simulate charging in mid-air, then stand up and hold back and press lk quickly, then d/b+mk>scissors.

    If you're jumping in, as soon as you leave the ground, hold back...

    Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

    Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    you need to do the s.lk c.mk link pretty quickly btw.

    practice that and you should have no problem.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

    Thanks :tup:
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Which is best meaty attack of dictator? his c.mk, or have any other? and last question :sweat:, with wich characters works better?

    Thanks :tup:

    cr.mk is his best meaty.
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  • JubeiNinja69JubeiNinja69 Playing To Win Joined: Posts: 1,158
    what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?
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  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,807 mod
    Thanks for the tips guys!!! :tup:



    Ya, i need to dominate the ground combo first, then as you say, add the jump kick, however i think s.lk is too fast for my newbie fingers :sweat:

    Again, thank you very much!!! :wgrin:

    I've noticed that if you're in deep enough, you can get in 2 s.lk and then scissor. It may leave a bigger gap for escape/reversal, but you can also do s.lk, s.mk into scissor. *shrug* Just some options to try out when trying to find a corner trap. =P
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    what's the best way to escape bison's trap when you're in the corner?

    Obviously, it depends on your character. If the match is Bison vs Bison, you have no escape, unless you already have super. If your opponent make a mistake like a later scissor, or also a scissor too close, u can do a fierce psycho/reversal throw/jump, i think these are the only ways to escape. I do not know if a jab or short can also work.

    I catch a lot of Bison players doing that corner trap :smile:
  • ilikemacaroni707ilikemacaroni707 MacaRudy Joined: Posts: 306
    I was wondering if anyone could help me vs chun :wasted: I seriously just keep getting shut down.
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  • holy-diverholy-diver Joined: Posts: 27
    There is a way to pressure zangief?? He throws me all day long...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.

    the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. i also like to pressure with light scissors, s. mk repeat; or after that string you can do a backward jump mk. it works well as an instant overhead, and is a good option if the zangief you are playing is good at reversal 360's. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers! well, i suppose that lp. version would be fine in place of lk. scissors.

    oh, cross him up if you have the chance. zangief has a pretty wide hit box. though im not too sure which one is better to use. (MK or RH)?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    if he lariats, slide.
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  • holy-diverholy-diver Joined: Posts: 27
    Thanks a lot guys!!!!!!!:rock:
    I've another two question since I'm a bit new to ST:
    Where I have to use psycho crusher properly?
    And in pressure is better mk scissor kick or hk scissor kick??:pray:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    mk and hk scissors are really punishable if blocked. for pressure use lk scissors. use mk or hk scissors in combos or links (i.e. c.mk > mk. scissors, this is a good punisher for whiffed dp's or flash kicks).

    most nubes (including me when i started playing) will just do fierce psycho all day and then when the opponent blocks, nubes always go for the throw. this may have worked in CE but not ST.

    i later found out that a blocked f.psycho gives you negative frames and your opponent has the advantage to throw or punish with a combo. if you mash punches after a blocked psycho, there is a slight chance you will be the one that throws (this is one of the random elements of ST). also if the fierce psycho goes all the through the blocking opponent, most characters can punish once bison is in front of them (i.e. free blanka c.fierce in bison's ass)

    when playing bison play the poke (s.mk and s.hk) and pressure game (use the light versions of the specials when pressuring). don't rely on the fierce psycho.
  • holy-diverholy-diver Joined: Posts: 27
    mmm....But psycho crusher have some use anyway???? Or it can be used only to punish other char's special on reaction???
    Thanks in advice.:smile::pleased:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Well i dont use so much the psycho i stick with scissor, but with psycho, u can punish blanka balls, when vega trying his wall jump and vega is to far of his corner, whiff strong/fierce dp's/boxer headbutts, and the most of missed aerial attacks.

    But i suggest u to stick with the scissor, is dict main weapon :china:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    when using scissors use the light version, and s. mk is a great poke (imo one of his best moves). it can stuff out projectiles when timed and spaced correctly.

    and i forgot to mention his throw. dict. is has a good reversal (wake-up) throw. probably his best reversal if you dont have your bar filled up (seriously, his reversal options suck). and the animation of his throw is long enough so you can change for a special and execute it once the opponent is thrown for additional pressure. i personally like to do head stomp or psycho reverse

    dict. is also a good character to tick with and as a good number of throw setups. after i crossup with roundhouse s.lk>throw then follow up with a meaty slide if the throw is softened. and if they anticipate the throw, i do lk(3x)>scissors (or psycho). after the cross up i also like to do s.lk(2x),c.lk>scissors/psycho, just in case if my opponent blocks the s.lk's and doesn't expect the low.

    holy-driver, look up taira and yuuvega on youtube. that's where i picked up on some tips on how to play dict.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Damn the Siberian Splash to HELL!!
    NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER let him corner you. if that happens he'll siberian splash you all day long and the only way to escape is by using your super.
    the strategy i find useful against zangief is the poke and run method. s.mk(or RH) and c.mk are very good pokes against him. the main thing to remember is not to let him get close and use that s.mk(RH) to keep your space. and dont use psycho crushers!

    Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen (trust me my friend loves to spin lariat and siberian splash all day). I really hate fighting this type of Gief because even though they know they're being lazy they always like to say, "We'll if it's the same move you should be able to do something about it," and you can, throw him then lock him down with the pokes MSG mentioned. Head stomp works wonders against him because his lariat won't catch it if you know how to control it (see my other posts) and his only other anti-air options aren't fast enough if your a quick thinker (setup with ground pokes & whiffs). Not tryin to Flame MSG good post btw.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Actually, if he corners you just take one splash then reversal throw his cheap ass across the screen.

    thanx, never thought to try that. ill see if it works when i play my roomie. i think (dont quote me on this though) that gief's siberian splash gives him plus frames on hit, making the reversal throw harder to pull off. but ill still try it and see what happens.
  • COUMCOUM COUM Joined: Posts: 442
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure he should have time to jump again before you'll even be able to throw him. Maybe you can jump strong the splash or close st.fierce it, but both are gonna be pretty damn hard to time if they even work...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    dict. + corner = not a good place to be

    i dont know of anything he can do aside from reversal throw or super that can get him out of the corner. when dict. is cornered, im pretty sure gief can splash him all day, honda can c.lp, ocho throw, repeat (look up kusumondo v. yuuvega), ryu can lock him down with fb's, etc.

    just remember when you are playing dict., don't corner yourself and pressure your opponent relentlessly. his best defense is his offense.
  • holy-diverholy-diver Joined: Posts: 27
    You are all awesome guys!!!!!!!
    I've improved greatly my game!

    But I have just another question..... I noticed that a lot of mind games, pressure strings etc work really well against human opponent, but when I have to fight the cpu at the hardest difficulty I'm easily raped. It's normale or I am the weaker Dic player in the world?
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