Bison (dictator) Thread

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  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    A new Dic player here. Had a question about one of the translations to Yoga Book Hyper for Dic, which can be found here.

    The fourth string starts with jab psycho crusher, slide kick (as it ends). I'm wondering just what the hell that means. Is it assuming that either the crusher or the slide knockdown? And in that case how would it be any different from any other knockdown? Or if its assuming that both get blocked then that doesn't make any sense either, since slide is like the unsafest move in the game. :wonder:

    Any help on this would be greatly appreciated!

    I'm pretty sure it means that the string can start with either jab psicho crusher or the slide but ONLY if the slide hits in its final couple frames (like at the maximum possible range or meaty timed so that it obtains the main effect). Obviosuly you're gonna use the jab crusher starter quite more often
    gooby plz
  • MixahMixah Joined: Posts: 8,130
    As my third character, I'm subscribing to this thread.
    Beat... That's all.
  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    Giga just posted this video on youtube.

    Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap




    I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick
  • MixahMixah Joined: Posts: 8,130
    goddamn...
    Beat... That's all.
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    Wtf!
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • DaddyneptuneDaddyneptune Swim Good Joined: Posts: 1,889
    Giga just posted this video on youtube.

    Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap




    I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick

    Nice to know.
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  • Yo' DaddyYo' Daddy Joined: Posts: 29
    how am i supposed to deal with gief? i always find myself getting ticked to death after a knockdown, reversal lariat beats my crossup attempts, and his body splash has godly priority. But apparently this is a 5-5 matchup according to T.Akiba chart http://www.super-turbo.net/sbc/data/diagrama/diagrama.html

    what can i do to even up the odds, as from personal experience i only win 10% of my games against gief
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    footsy with standing forward, standing roundhouse, keep your distancing right, last hit of scissor kick from far away, never do two hits on scissor kick or youll get SPDed, and occasional low roundhouse to reverse lariats
  • Yo' DaddyYo' Daddy Joined: Posts: 29
    whenever i do the s.mk and s.hk poking, i eventually get lariated and knocked down (which sets up gief's tick spd).... i can go from having a massive life lead, to getting knocked down by lariat just once and losing the round because of the repeated tick SPDs.

    am i right in saying that reversal lariat beats all crossup attempts? or is it just my bad timing?
  • MavrickMavrick "I Am Cold Blooded" Joined: Posts: 975
    Ya your right when he's spinning hes invinciable too all attacks except to his head or feet so if you cross and dont hit hes head your going to get hit, the best way to cross is after you knock him down do a cross befor he gets to his feet. He stands up the slowest of all the fighters so you have a better chance then. Try using your knee press more aginist his lariate its a 80, 30 chance that you'll win with it
    As my dear friend Wax once said "this game is like the special olympics - even if you win you're still a retarrrd" Quotable Quotes
  • MavrickMavrick "I Am Cold Blooded" Joined: Posts: 975
    footsy with standing forward, standing roundhouse, keep your distancing right, last hit of scissor kick from far away, never do two hits on scissor kick or youll get SPDed, and occasional low roundhouse to reverse lariats

    We'll your half right you can do your knee press on him as much as you want when he's blocking and, not get hit just make sure its the weak kick (short Kick) when you do it hold jump back to get away it works 80% of the time and when you jump away make sure that you kick in the air just in case he tries to follow you. You'll hit him...

    If you don't believe just google DAVID SIRLIN"S EVO 2007 OR 2008 ST matches
    As my dear friend Wax once said "this game is like the special olympics - even if you win you're still a retarrrd" Quotable Quotes
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Giga just posted this video on youtube.

    Video of Tira escaping Zangief corner trap




    I would of thought it was luck, but Giga explains how it is done F*ing sick

    Taira did something similar to that before against a Dhalsim at a Mikado Ranking Battle.

  • FreddyL0c0FreddyL0c0 Joined: Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    aren't they the same person? (Taira/Tira)

    man, i was watching some bison matches yesterday, and this japanese guy kept using standing jab as an ANTI-AIR against shotos, followed by ambiguous meaty slide, into insta-overhead/crouching medium kick/sex/stomp. It was just to delicious

    but yo, I know this shit WOULDNT work against say Gief, or max distanced jumps.

    and that corner escape from Gief that was posted was uncanny
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  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    aren't they the same person? (Taira/Tira)

    man, i was watching some bison matches yesterday, and this japanese guy kept using standing jab as an ANTI-AIR against shotos, followed by ambiguous meaty slide, into insta-overhead/crouching medium kick/sex/stomp. It was just to delicious

    but yo, I know this shit WOULDNT work against say Gief, or max distanced jumps.

    and that corner escape from Gief that was posted was uncanny

    no I thought they were different people

    delicious indeed, Zangief seems to be much easier match for Bison than against shotos.
  • Yo' DaddyYo' Daddy Joined: Posts: 29
    ok more on the touch of death.

    For those that do Crossup HK/MK > st.lk x 2 > cr.mk > FP Psycho

    do you mash on the lk button to get the st.lk x 2, or do you use 2 correctly timed button presses?

    I try mashing and I get it maybe 20% lol, maybe I'm not fast enough but I am using my left hand since i use a kb \(_o)/

    also, do more people use 2 standing lks, or just 1?
  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    ok more on the touch of death.

    For those that do Crossup HK/MK > st.lk x 2 > cr.mk > FP Psycho

    do you mash on the lk button to get the st.lk x 2, or do you use 2 correctly timed button presses?

    I try mashing and I get it maybe 20% lol, maybe I'm not fast enough but I am using my left hand since i use a kb \(_o)/

    also, do more people use 2 standing lks, or just 1?

    You shouldnt mash with M.Bison he really is all about timing, character like Dee Jay you can mash that combo and get away with it.

    You can use 2 or 3 standing l.kicks but I think if you use 3 you will have to go straight into scissor kick as you might move out of range.

    I was planning to move to stick, but after picking up M.Bison Im having too much fun on keyboard again. :wgrin:
  • SiManSiMan Joined: Posts: 52
    Ok, a real noob question here...
    see when people list standard bison combos ending in "scissor", what strength of scissor am i supposed to be doing?
    Or does it depend on whether the combo is being blocked or not?

    Cheers!
  • DeskDesk ハイパー・ディーサイド・デスク Joined: Posts: 705
    dude, we have some kind of telepathy going on I'm sure, lol. I'm here randomly looking for some info.

    Generally, if you're comboing don't use short and if you've got a block string going, do use short.

    Short SK will combo against almost everyone after 'st. short, cr. forward xx SK' but it can whiff on cammy, chun and possibly claw (I think). If you've got a guaranteed combo anyway use roundhouse. That little bit of extra space you'll cover is worth it and there's no risk.

    EDIT: oh yeah I knew I had a question. Is there a list of his match ups anywhere? just checked the wiki and couldn't see one. Anyone who uses him in tournaments want to post up a very quick run down?
  • fluxcorefluxcore Fighting Kiwi Joined: Posts: 311
    Is there a list of his match ups anywhere? just checked the wiki and couldn't see one. Anyone who uses him in tournaments want to post up a very quick run down?

    http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/09/super-diagram-turbo-version-2.html

    That do?
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  • SiManSiMan Joined: Posts: 52
    Great minds think alike desk! Cheers for the info...need to get practisin for the next SvC. lol
  • DeskDesk ハイパー・ディーサイド・デスク Joined: Posts: 705

    of course! thanks dude. I had already seen that but I'd completely forgotten about it. thanks.

    I think what put me off was how silly some of the numbers were for match ups I already know. Meaning I couldn't take the other numbers (for match ups i didn't know) seriously.

    I say this even though I realise a lot of work was put into getting the info and compiling the list. And that nohoho is awesome, lol. It's just a little too random and when I dont' recognise player names I don't know who's opinion to pay attention to.

    To be honest I'm not too bothered about even having numbers and stuff just who he wins/loses against.

    Siman, I've actually got some sick new tactics to show you next time you're round. Get practicing dude!!!
  • shortpitched713shortpitched713 Waiting for SSIVTHDR Joined: Posts: 177


    Neat corner pattern from Taira starting at around 2:22. I'm assuming it was st. short, cr. forward, crusher but I may be wrong.

    I wonder if any of you'all know what strength crusher that is? Also, is that pattern only useful against sim, or can you use that against other characters as well? Thanks all.
  • N-TradeN-Trade Joined: Posts: 63


    Neat corner pattern from Taira starting at around 2:22. I'm assuming it was st. short, cr. forward, crusher but I may be wrong.

    I wonder if any of you'all know what strength crusher that is? Also, is that pattern only useful against sim, or can you use that against other characters as well? Thanks all.

    I think it's strong psycho crusher

    http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/08/tairas-trickery-and-other-tales-from.html
  • shortpitched713shortpitched713 Waiting for SSIVTHDR Joined: Posts: 177

    Great link there!

    I guess then that a fool-proof trap only works for characters without a reversal (sim, dic)?
  • MavrickMavrick "I Am Cold Blooded" Joined: Posts: 975


    Neat corner pattern from Taira starting at around 2:22. I'm assuming it was st. short, cr. forward, crusher but I may be wrong.

    I wonder if any of you'all know what strength crusher that is? Also, is that pattern only useful against sim, or can you use that against other characters as well? Thanks all.

    (DIC) does not have a fool proof corner trap. it only works if the person your doing it on does not conter or jump after he SC or SK he has a short pause befor you can do a mave and that gives them a chance to make there moves but, its just harder if you dont have a reversal
    As my dear friend Wax once said "this game is like the special olympics - even if you win you're still a retarrrd" Quotable Quotes
  • MavrickMavrick "I Am Cold Blooded" Joined: Posts: 975
    ok more on the touch of death.

    For those that do Crossup HK/MK > st.lk x 2 > cr.mk > FP Psycho

    do you mash on the lk button to get the st.lk x 2, or do you use 2 correctly timed button presses?

    I try mashing and I get it maybe 20% lol, maybe I'm not fast enough but I am using my left hand since i use a kb \(_o)/

    also, do more people use 2 standing lks, or just 1?

    And here's the Touch of death vid...

    As my dear friend Wax once said "this game is like the special olympics - even if you win you're still a retarrrd" Quotable Quotes
  • ShadowlessShadowless Dreamer Joined: Posts: 1,594
    (DIC) does not have a fool proof corner trap. it only works if the person your doing it on does not conter or jump after he SC or SK he has a short pause befor you can do a mave and that gives them a chance to make there moves but, its just harder if you dont have a reversal

    According to mister nohoho, he does. "When done properly, this Psycho Magic is airtight. The Dhalsim player must hope their opponent mistimes a jab so they can throw or teleport." That's only necessarily true for Dhalsim in the far corner, but still.

    Great video.
  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    And here's the Touch of death vid...


    Its pretty easy to pull off, that Sagat one is just evil, just makes you wonder how big a monster he will be in HDremix
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Super moves/tricks/tactis baby!:

    Light Psycho Crusher(blocked)+Super can be ok to use sometimes,this was a trick i started playing around with, since if you can scissor kick from it,why not try a super? Usually people will want to poke you after you land the crusher.Using it against Honda or Claw helped me a few times,and it is indeed a nice surprise move...because I,myself,have never seen the Japs or American players utilize this trick,but please do care to inform me.

    Tho,you have to time this very slowly.from right when you land...just do the super slow,there's nothing quite like pulling this off and having your opponent fall for it,it's exhilarating.

    Or,if you slide against a character on Wakeup+Super,they may try to poke you and you'll land some nice dmg.I always forget to try this trick tho.When I say that,you do the slide so that it hits them on wakeup,and it gives you a little bit of distance from them after hitting the slide,then input the super move.


    And also for light psycho crusher mix-ups,you can either head-stomp from it or scissor kick from it.Both are nice to use.

    For Standing Fierce-punch,I have found this move very very useful in matches at many times,tho you have to be pretty early for it,or rather expect it (have it on your mind).It will trade or sometimes hit cleanly off,depending on the distance of certain characters..it does well against T-Hawks jumping Jab,most of Zangiefs jump ins,Guiles jumping Medium Kick (Will hit cleanly most of the time,actually this punch is very good to use against guile,or so i've seen so far),Bison's Juggle Punch,etc.I very much like this normal over his jumping Juggle,or maybe I have to practice the reaction time on how to use it,haha.
    Oh btw it may trade or hit clean off,Dhalsims Drill.Im pretty sure it will cleanly kill Sims flying headbutt.

    Basically from watching Mike Watsons match vs Cole,it made me look into this normal more and study it's capabilities(Watson was the one to give me insight into the power side of Bison,through his videos, as well) and I must say,it is not bad at all to use...I don't know if it's just me,but I think some people under-estimate the potential of this normal.Also,sometimes you can hit a character cleanly off and still retain a good distance against them,altho the juggle is superior,since you earn a free knock down,next to your opponent,sometimes the standing fierce punch may defeat/trade moves that the juggle cannot even be used on (you'll just get beat from air-counters).Also,I like to refer to the Standing Fierce punch as the "Edge Punch".

    Good anti airs: Standing+Jump Fierce Kick,Standing Jump + low-kick/punch,Juggle,Standing fierce punch,sometimes a crouching short kick,much like how Ryu/Ken can defeat aerial attacks with a crouching sweep,Crouching fierce punch is sometimes good to use aganist a shoto character,if they use a jump kick.,but I noticed that the distance is a little tweaked from New Challengers onto ST,so again,depends on distance and is not 100%.

    Corner lock-down:Jumping low kick/punch>standing low kick>crouching med.kick/punch>medium crusher,wash,rinse,repeat.PS: I hate standard move connotation,so I just use these,bare with me.

    If you want to learn Bison,then you have to learn how to abuse his throws,he has great walking speed and nice throw range,so this is mandatory to learn.Throw the hell out of your opponents if you have to,just so long as you get the job done.Remember,throwing opens new opportunities for attack.With the right mix-ups,you can really destroy your opponents.

    Sorry if it's long/mixed up,but i'm kinda drunk right now.lol

    If anyone wants to correct me on my post,please do so!

    Btw,anyone have tips for Bisons Juggle+Super? I can never seem to get it off.
  • SiManSiMan Joined: Posts: 52
    Why do some players use jumping short when going for non-crossup combos?
    Don't think i've seen it used as a crossup for obvious reasons.

    Cheers
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Standing fierce eats drills and mummy for breakfast, but it's hard to time. You basically have to start the move before Sim starts his drill, or else do it from far enough away so that the Sim player shouldn't have even done it in the first place.

    Also, crouching forward xx scissors is a better way to deal with Hawk's jumping jab, beats it for free.


    Jumping short is a great jump-in because it makes a really great safe jump. If you're just jumping in on your opponent when they're already standing, well, first, why are you doing that, but second, you won't use short, you'll use forward or roundhouse or strong.
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  • SiManSiMan Joined: Posts: 52
    Dang that was quick! lol

    Thanks man
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Standing fierce eats drills and mummy for breakfast, but it's hard to time. You basically have to start the move before Sim starts his drill, or else do it from far enough away so that the Sim player shouldn't have even done it in the first place.

    Also, crouching forward xx scissors is a better way to deal with Hawk's jumping jab, beats it for free.


    Jumping short is a great jump-in because it makes a really great safe jump. If you're just jumping in on your opponent when they're already standing, well, first, why are you doing that, but second, you won't use short, you'll use forward or roundhouse or strong.

    Ah,thanks for the info
  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    Is there any specific use for the jumping fierce and crouching fierce. Haven't found a single situation to use them instead of strong or his kicks?
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    Is there any specific use for the jumping fierce and crouching fierce. Haven't found a single situation to use them instead of strong or his kicks?

    I'm not an expert with him, but I can tell you from the other side of a coin that crouching fierce can be a good opening against Dhalsim. From that range, sim's st.MK beat almost anything Bison can do. But cr.FP beats sim's poke.

    I think I've also seen cr.FP used against ryu. Maybe as anti-air or against hurricane kicks? I forget.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    I'd say one use for c.Fierce is anti-air (I've got the YBH so the following comes from pg.96 for reference). It has a large attack box that completely covers the hit box from above, but not much lee-way. Here's the thing about it, you need to execute it slightly early (as it has 9 start up frames). It does have slightly greater range than cr.strong though; but, it has 19 frames of recovery so you'd be WIDE open. Kind of a novelty once in awhile mix up normal IMO, or a rare trade (NOTE: IT WILL beat dic's s.Foward if timed correctly [i.e. correct timing for 2 extra start up frames]).

    Jumping Up Fierce can be used in place of j.u.jab, but you'd have to time it well as it has 6 startup, and only 10 hitting frames. Jump in Fierce I really can't see a use except for air to ground (when done from as far as possible) as the attack box is large and covers up the hit box for dic, fairly well. One of the only characters that could counter it with anti air normal would be Dj's s.Strong, it would trade with his s.Fierce or might beat it (kinda hard to eyeball).

    Personally when I play another dic player and they wanna start poking, I will occasionally (when I'm not PC the wiff) use cr.Fierce to break the chain; but the recovery is so poor.

    Anyways hope that helps.
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  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Special Cross-ups Reference Images
    i came across this video which explains when bison's torpedo will cross up or not
    which until i saw this video i thought was random.

    *edit* please note that this is if Dic is player 1.....if Dic is player 2 please reverse left corner for right corner and vice versa. thanks nohoho

    when the opponent is in the left corner
    Torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kick will
    But when they are on the Right corner: both Torpedo and Scissor kick will cross up
    Ryu
    Ken
    Guile
    Sim
    Boxer
    Claw
    Bison


    When these character are in the Left Corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor Kick won't.
    When these characters are in the Right Corner: both will cross up
    Honda
    Fei Long
    Zangief
    Sagat

    When these characters are on the Left or Right Corners:
    Torpedo will cross up but the Scissor Kicks won't
    Blanka
    Dee Jay

    When these Characters are in the Left corner:
    torpedo will not cross up but Scissor Kicks will
    When they are in the Right corner: neither will cross up.
    Cammy
    Chun Li

    When he is in the left corner: Torpedo won't cross up but Scissor Kicks will
    When he is in the right corner: Torpedo will cross up but Scissor kicks won't
    Hawk

    I made some simple reference images to help players tackle the special cross-ups for each matchup from each player side:
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/

    I suggest that before your match starts on GGPO, that you just:
    1) look for the image with your opponent's character
    2) pick whether you are Player 1 or Player 2
    3) then make a mental note per the image of which specials work on which side

    I'll try to clean up this page and add some supporting reference pages (like youtube matchup links) to the link at some point.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    I made some simple reference images to help players tackle the special cross-ups for each matchup from each player side:
    http://gizmo.zendfree.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/

    I suggest that before your match starts on GGPO, that you just:
    1) look for the image with your opponent's character
    2) pick whether you are Player 1 or Player 2
    3) then make a mental note per the image of which specials work on which side

    I'll try to clean up this page and add some supporting reference pages (like youtube matchup links) to the link at some point.

    That is sick!:woot:
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • tsukihimebloodtsukihimeblood Blood and Tsundere Joined: Posts: 767
    I made some simple reference images to help players tackle the special cross-ups for each matchup from each player side:
    http://gizmo.zendfree.com/superturbo/dictator/specialcrossups/

    I suggest that before your match starts on GGPO, that you just:
    1) look for the image with your opponent's character
    2) pick whether you are Player 1 or Player 2
    3) then make a mental note per the image of which specials work on which side

    I'll try to clean up this page and add some supporting reference pages (like youtube matchup links) to the link at some point.

    Looks like I'm going to have to make some flash cards.
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