Bison (dictator) Thread

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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    There is an executable in the GGPO directory named "ggpofba.exe" or something that is an emulator and should allow save states just like Nabula, MAME, Kawaks or whatever.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    1. I've messed with this as well, and I've come up with two "possible" reasons. The headstomp has 30 frames of start up if it takes more than 30 frames for you to counter the fireball it won't hit [unless you use the appropriate distance short, foward, or RH i.e. depending on the distance between you and your opp.]

    :wtf:
    Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    :wtf:
    Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?
    Players have been alleging this for a long time now. It was brought up again in the HDR Dictator thread but nothing concrete was ever proven. I sat down with my CPSII board one day and tested out all three strength headstomps from various distances against various characters in various states (crouching, waking up, jumping). And just eyeballing it I found nothing definitive that would suggest any difference between the three strengths of headstomp.

    It looked as if Dictator traveled the same speed, same trajectory, and recovered from headstomp in the same way no matter which strength headstomp I used.

    Here's one of the tests I did. I chose Dictator as the 1P side, Ken as the 2P side, I used my wallet to prop the 2P joystick on my Astro City to walk Ken backwards towards the right of the screen until he was at the corner and kept him there walking back (so he could block the headstomps). Then I walked Dictator as far back as he could go on the 1P side and put him in crouch. I did a headstomp for each strength using the d,u+k command each time from that distance. After I performed the headstomp I stopped touching the joystick and eyeballed where he landed. It looked as if it was the exact same spot that he recovered at each time. The trajectories looked the same as well as the speed.

    If there are differences they certainly eluded me. I would love to see something conclusive with hard evidence.

    I'm convinced that people think the different strengths of headstomp have different properties because of button layout on the control panels. It takes a split second difference for most people to press short, forward, or roundhouse. Those few frames difference between using your thumb, index, ring finger, or whatever finger to press a different strength button might cause the headstomp to come out earlier or later.

    What I mean is, let's say you knock your opponent down, and you want to meaty headstomp them. Because of the that way your hand is positioned, you might strike the short kick button a frame or so earlier, than you would the forward kick button. So let's say you knock your opponent down, and do a headstomp with short kick, and you fly over your opponent as they are getting up (meaning the headstomp whiffs). You might have done it just a bit too early. Now let's say you knock your opponent down again but this time you hit forward kick for a headstomp. Now because of the positioning of your fingers across the control panel that forward strength headstomp might come out a frame or two later...meaning the trajectory will be different. The trajectory will be different because the headstomp auto tracks your opponent. Doing a headstomp at different points during a wakeup animation will get you different trajectories. It seems people might be confusing this with the (unproven?) theory of 'different kick strengths give different headstomps'.

    Does this make sense? Again if I'm wrong I would love some closure to this question as it was one of the things in the HDR Dictator thread that no one really had a solid answer to.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • shortpitched713shortpitched713 Waiting for SSIVTHDR Joined: Posts: 177
    :wtf:
    Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?

    It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).



    Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I've been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I've been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.
    Again, going from down to up, up+back, or up+forward, is three different lenghts for your left hand to travel. You might have the muscle memory timing down perfectly for the down to up+back direction for headstomps, and for the other two directions, your timing might be off (resulting in your missing headstomps).

    The only difference I've found with what direction you end the headstomp command in is isn't directly related to the headstomp but related to keeping charge. I'll explain it in detail below. It's actually a neat trick.

    Let's say I'm playing Dictator and my opponent is playing Guile. I've just knocked my opponent down, I have a full SUPER meter, and I'm going to headstomp him when he wakes up. I'm on the 1P side and he's on the 2P side waking up.

    Using :d:,:u:+:k: will work, it's a headstomp, if timed correctly it will land.

    However :d:,:ub:+:k: is a much better alternative. Why?

    If you headstomp in this situation and end the motion in up+back and keep holding back as you land you'll land with your backwards charge. The problem though is that if you hold back to preserve charge, after the headstomp, Dictator will travel all the way back opposite from the opponent.

    So how do you headstomp your opponent, preserve backwards charge, and land close to your opponent?

    The answer is the followup (skull driver or whatever it's called) to headstomp.

    If you input :d:,:ub:+:k: for the headstomp, and then continue to hold :l: after the headstomp you'll land far away, yet if right after the headstomp you hit :p: the followup will come out. Followup sinks you like a bag of bricks. You'll land close to your opponent, keep your charge, and now you can threaten a SUPER from close range as opposed to full screen.

    :d:,:ub:+:k:, :l: (hold), :p:, land. Now if you land and don't want to immediately SUPER then hold :db: of course. I've seen a few Japanese players use it. I can't remember any videos of it happening off hand but if I see one I'll edit this post in the future.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I definitely agree that Head Stomp trajectory is not affected by button strength or by directional input, but by timing. If somebody were to prove that different trajectories are caused by opponent positioning, I'd agree with that. If an opponent is crouching, Dictator flies low to the ground. If an opponent is airborne, Dictator flies super high. I don't think it has a "homing in" property, though sometimes it seems to "home in" well esp vs aerial opponents. I think that whichever frame the button is input on, the game aims Dictator's feet towards the top most vulnerable area of the opponent during that frame. If that vulnerable hitbox moves on the next frame, and moves significantly enough, that's when I think Dictator whiffs.

    I've tried to make Head Stomps whiff when I'm playing vs Dictator by moving forward as soon as I see a Stomp, but this hasn't worked. Maybe it just randomly whiffs every once in a while? Or maybe the opponent has to move at the last second before impact, as opposed to as soon as the Stomp is airborne? IDK, definitely needs to be figured it out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The only difference I've found with what direction you end the headstomp command in is isn't directly related to the headstomp but related to keeping charge.
    I definitely agree that Head Stomp trajectory is not affected by button strength

    This is wrong and....


    ....and here below there is the right answer
    It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).

    However this is hard to see if you just watch the screen.
    You can check this when you do a head press on a fireball and the opponent try to duck for dodging, if you do the hd lk is more easy to hit him if you do the hp hk is hard and usually you miss the target, on the other way when the opponent jump back and you do a hd lk is more easy that you get hit by a counterattack but if you do the hp hk you can hit him from above.
    Maybe it just randomly whiffs every once in a while? Or maybe the opponent has to move at the last second before impact, as opposed to as soon as the Stomp is airborne? IDK, definitely needs to be figured it out.
    so the question is how to make the hp whiff: before we should see how the hp system works: when u complete the input pressing the kick botton you start a parabola more or less curved (this depends from the kick botton u used) to the opponent head. After this if you play vs vega and you want to make he whiff you have to change position when vega player finish the input and start the leap, the easiest way is to duck and dodge, this doesn't work if you are in the corner because the hp fly over then stops to the screen corner and fall over your head, that's why for example it's a mistake to do a hp vs dhalsim but it's ok if he is in the corner.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    I'll test this using an emulator running the Japanese version of ST on Turbo 2 (too lazy to do this on my actual CPSII board), here are the results for the headstomp versus every character standing and crouching.

    Ryu:

    - Dictator in corner, Ryu as far away as he can be, crouching
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
    • roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu

    - Ryu in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be
    • short headstomp connects every time, hits in front of Ryu
    • forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu

    - Ryu (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)
    • short headstomp connects every time, lands very close to Ryu
    • forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
    • roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu

    - Ryu (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu's stage
    • short headstomp connects every time, hits right in front of Ryu's face
    • forward headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him
    • roundhouse headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him

    - Ryu (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him
    • short headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
    • forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu

    - Ryu (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    So with Ryu, you can avoid (or duck under) the forward and roundhouse strength headstomps from a few distances, the short strength headstomp will consistently connect though. Realistically it is impossible in the middle of a match to know which strength headstmop that your opponent is using. So if your opponent knows to use the short strength headstomp and you try to duck under it you'll end up losing that exchange. However opponents who like to piano or vary their headstomps could expose themselves to a whiffed moved if their opponent tries to duck the headstomp. Standing however, as the opponent, and you will not be able to avoid a headstomp at any distance. If you replace Ryu with Ken the results are the same as well. So Ryu and Ken have a special advantage compared to the rest of the cast who I individually tested below.
    - - - -

    Zangief:

    - Dictator in corner, Zangief as far away as he can be, crouching
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    - Zangief in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    - Zangief (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    - Zangief (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu's stage
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    - Zangief (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    - Zangief (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance
    • short headstomp connects every time
    • forward headstomp connects every time
    • roundhouse headstomp connects every time

    So against Zangief the headstomps, no matter what strength, no matter what distance, nor if Zangief is standing or crouching, will always connect. While the trajectories might be different, though difficult to see, they are insignificant in this match in that they all eventually connect no matter what. You can substitute Boxer, Dhalsim, Claw, T.Hawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Honda, Cammy, DeeJay, Sagat, Chun, Guile and even Dictator himself in for Zangief for all these tests as well. Every character but Ryu and Ken must block headstomps.
    - - -
    Obviously if you knock your opponent down and perform the headstomp command too early, you'll land before your opponent even gets up, meaning a whiff is possible on a waking opponent no matter who they are. Standing opponents as well as seem to equally track a headstomp regardless of what strength command was used to perform the special attack. However, Ryu and Ken (lucky bastards!) seem to have the unique ability to evade certain strength headstomps (forward and roundhouse) at certain distances by simply crouching in place.

    Now it is possible to perform a headstomp while an opponent is standing, then have that opponent duck, and then the headstomp flies over and whiffs. So for example, I have two Dictator players, both as far apart as they can be midscreen, one is standing, one is crouching. The crouching Dictator performs a headstomp, the standing Dictator keeps standing, and gets hit. I reset the save state, and have the one Dictator perform a headstomp again, I have the other crouch immediately while the headstomp is taking off from the ground, the opposing Dictator holds crouch, the headstomp (no matter the strength) flies right over the crouched Dictator. Now, if I perform a headstomp, then the opposing Dictator rapidly goes from crouching to standing several times in a row (by mashing the joystick between down and neutral), the headstomp flies right over the opposing Dictator if he is crouching but if you stand back up you'll get caught in the headstomps trajectory and take the hit.

    I had Dictator headstomp point blank next to standing Zangief, and no matter when Zangief crouched after the headstomp was performed, he ate the headstomp every time. Yet if I tried to headstomp a standing Zangief midscreen when he was standing, and then he crouched, the headstomps would whiff if Zangief crouched fast enough. If Zangief was crouching midscreen, I perform a headstomp, then Zangief stood up and crouched again, the headstomp would connect no matter what.

    So standing opponents, as long as they are not in the corner, can duck under headstomps if they quickly crouch. The headstomp will track them as if they are standing, so if they remain crouched, Dictator will fly right over them.

    The biggest difference is that while all characters that are standing can try to duck under any strength headstomp, Ryu and Ken can crouch for the entire duration of forward and roundhouse strength headstomps (from certain distances) and avoid them altogether.

    I don't know how much further testing this needs. The headstomps are different though (though only noticeable on Ryu and Ken really). And tricky opponents can try to duck under headstomps (I'll see if I can find some videos where this happens).
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Nice post i want only to add that is quite easy with dhalsim make the hp whiff ducking from middle and long distance and in japan also low level dhalsim know that.
  • JubeiNinja69JubeiNinja69 Playing To Win Joined: Posts: 1,158
    for the devil reverse, how do you control how high or how low he goes up?
    Strategy Zone lurker
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    the hight depends where is the opponent head when you finish the input, if he is on the ground is a normal dr if in the air a high dr.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).



    Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I've been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.

    ShortP, i want to believe you there.
    ...I have noticed lately that my headstomping is a bit delayed, giving some people the impression that they have time to reversal it.

    And sometimes, not even a reversal because it takes so long.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    thanks VF4 for the playtesting.

    Now i can continue tap-dancing on heads with the added knowledge.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    How can Dic deal with Ryu/Ken j.HK if they jump from relatively close? From far away I can n.j.HK on reaction, but if they jump at 45 or closer I have a lot of trouble taking them off of me. Ken is especially nasty with his throw mixups.

    Any suggestions?
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I asked a very similar question in the HDR forum about a week ago (although mine was broader in scope). There were several answers, so head over there and check it out. Hope that helps!
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    short answer:
    1. block and read his next attack:
    a) shoryuken --- block again
    b) knee bash ---- counter throw
    Btw this is hard to do.
    2. try jb.mp hitting the mp botton as soon as possible when u jump back, if u miss the timing u can try to jump back again when he crossed back side and jump again. Also the jb.lk can work but is better against other character (dj)
    3. try a slide under his jump

    Don't do:
    js. hk, jf.mp or c.hp because they need that u start the attack before the attack u want to counter. Of course don't do also knee press or psycho crusher.

    That's all.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Thanks for the input, I found that j.b.HK works pretty well.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    Damn i think i hate DeeJay the most out of bad matchups for Dic.

    At least Chun Li has low health.
    And i know that Honda can win because he's fat and stupid.....in fighting games that means you are unstoppable.

    But DJ...he doesnt make sense!
    He has high priority on every normal, and to top it off his jumping light normals are nearly as good as Chun's!
    :mad:


    Fireball, slide, cr. fp
    Thats all he needs.
    If you jump over fireball you get mp anti-aired, or that aa special.

    Also,
    What can stop the c.fp?
    Dic cant hk, mk, or slide under it.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    short answer:
    1. block and read his next attack:
    a) shoryuken --- block again
    b) knee bash ---- counter throw
    Btw this is hard to do.
    2. try jb.mp hitting the mp botton as soon as possible when u jump back, if u miss the timing u can try to jump back again when he crossed back side and jump again. Also the jb.lk can work but is better against other character (dj)
    3. try a slide under his jump

    Don't do:
    js. hk, jf.mp or c.hp because they need that u start the attack before the attack u want to counter. Of course don't do also knee press or psycho crusher.

    That's all.

    Even shorter answer:
    Stand there.
    Pray.
    :rofl:
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Damn i think i hate DeeJay the most out of bad matchups for Dic.

    At least Chun Li has low health.
    And i know that Honda can win because he's fat and stupid.....in fighting games that means you are unstoppable.

    But DJ...he doesnt make sense!
    He has high priority on every normal, and to top it off his jumping light normals are nearly as good as Chun's!
    :mad:


    Fireball, slide, cr. fp
    Thats all he needs.
    If you jump over fireball you get mp anti-aired, or that aa special.

    Also,
    What can stop the c.fp?
    Dic cant hk, mk, or slide under it.

    Scissor kick or PC? Dunno if c.strong beats it, but I spam that a bit in any match.
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Fireball, slide, cr. fp
    Thats all he needs.
    If you jump over fireball you get mp anti-aired, or that aa special.

    Also,
    What can stop the c.fp?
    Dic cant hk, mk, or slide under it.

    vs dj is a difficult match up what u need to know is:

    1. that u can win him from medium distance with the standing mk but you have to anticipate his slide /attack and don't overshoot the target of his body because in those cases he wins.

    2. The head press on the fireball can be ok but you have to read the fireball and don't just react when u see it. Pay attention to the timing of the skull diver because is very easy for dj to counterattack.

    3. on his wake up the crouching mk or standing lk are quite good and then mix up of throw or one more crouching mk. If you are not close a cross up jumping attack it's difficult but quite good.

    4. as you said he can win quite every jumping attack, but when he attacks on your wake up jumping again and again you can do the jb.lk that as against x chunli is a good defensive air attack.

    5. you can win the slide with jf/jb. mk (the knee missile), in the corner just jump back and the missile is vertical as a jumping straight. So for example when u said about jumping on his fireball use the jf.mk hitting with the tip of the knee and then mix up of c.mk or step and throw. About his anti-air special just choose the right timing on the fireball, because it isnt so dangerous as the shoryuken is.

    Btw the match up as many dict match up is very difficult, i think that as claw and o.sagat are low skill characters, the dict is one of the most difficult. It requires not only skill but also a lot of experience, so don't lose heart and keep playing.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    Scissor kick or PC? Dunno if c.strong beats it, but I spam that a bit in any match.

    Psycho Crusher has a LOT of start up frames.
    You have to predict when he'll slide, because you CAN be tripped out of a PC.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    vs dj is a difficult match up what u need to know is:

    5. you can win the slide with jf/jb. mk (the knee missile), in the corner just jump back and the missile is vertical as a jumping straight. So for example when u said about jumping on his fireball use the jf.mk hitting with the tip of the knee and then mix up of c.mk or step and throw. About his anti-air special just choose the right timing on the fireball, because it isnt so dangerous as the shoryuken is.

    Btw the match up as many dict match up is very difficult, i think that as claw and o.sagat are low skill characters, the dict is one of the most difficult. It requires not only skill but also a lot of experience, so don't lose heart and keep playing.

    hmm...:wasted:
    I just realized that when i jump his fireball, i'm using j. Hk all the time.

    Also, I'm trying mang.
    I also realized that I'm a Dic Main, and not a Rog main.
    i like the challenge of it all.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • Don CalzoneDon Calzone Joined: Posts: 290
    Been trying out o.bison the last few weeks just for fun against my mates. Anyway, it seems like he has the same random-blocking thing with his psycho crusher as CE bison has, only lesser good. If you time it right on their wake up it seems like they have to guess for which side to hold the block i.e. it may cross up - at least against certain characters like Blanka. Can anybody confirm this? Perhaps even new dic has the same shit, but I've never seen it tried so I guess not...
    S-L-I-C-E.
    Slice me nice.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    If you mean the psycho cross up with the psycho crusher on the wake up it doesnt work with super turbo vega and with super vega nether. It was a tactic with champion edition and turbo vega. This because the hit box of the psycho crusher changed and now there is no attack hit box of the dict. leg. Another tactic was the psycho throw because the old psycho crusher had also the invincibility when he was landing....incredibile.
    You can try something that is a weak mix of the champion edition tactic: vs blanka and honda when they fall down get close with a slide and then do the pyscho low punch and you do something like a hit on the back and then is quite easy to throw them, try to hit with the shins.
    Another similar phenomenon is agaist zangief: when he blocks a pc heavy punch it depends how u hit but the third hit is in cross up as in champion edition tactic.
  • kevgeezkevgeez Joined: Posts: 351
    I like the randomness of that throw.
    Seeing you in Action is a Joke.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    dictator vs turtle claw?

    a claw with good defense is really hard to get anything started on...and then once he knocks u down he can just start walldive bs...
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    dictator vs turtle claw?

    a claw with good defense is really hard to get anything started on...and then once he knocks u down he can just start walldive bs...

    the match up is 7:3 for the claw but this does not mean that we don't have some trump card for us:
    basically we have the c.mk that stops his slide and the dkp lk to get close or press. So vs a turtle claw wait and slowly get close with the double knee lk: dkp lk and c.mk to stop his slide. If he arrives with a barcellona do a jumping back hk or if u r not on time just a psycho crusher hp to run away. If he blocks a dkp lk then mix up of: c.mk or step and throw or just wait.
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/M._Bison_(ST)#Advanced_Strategy

    Wrote an entire meter building article for the Wiki. Any comments, feedback, changes?
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • serrano pepperserrano pepper Too old to combo Joined: Posts: 100
    Thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm 40 years old and I'm still learning/scrubbing to play. Good fucking work!
  • serrano pepperserrano pepper Too old to combo Joined: Posts: 100
    Having a hard time vs Chun-li spamming neckbreaker kick over and over. If I block I end up getting slammed. Hard to reverse without a super. Please help O' Wise ones. Also Vega wall dive spam...any takers?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    As vs honda, chunli is one of the most difficult match up for dict. Against neckbreaker kick just block and counterthrow or jump back lk/mp.
    Vs claw it's difficult too but the barcellona counterattack is the jump back heavy kick.
  • endlesssendlesss Sobat Carnival Joined: Posts: 244
    1. What can be linked after cr. mk without charge?
    2. Is there a way to increase the chances of a st.hk linking after 3x st.lk? I can get st.lk x2 > st.hk consistently, but not after three. Just monster timing?
    avatar courtesy of snk
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    1. What can be linked after cr. mk without charge?
    Nothing will combos off of cr.mk without charge unless the cr.mk is done as a meaty attack.
    2. Is there a way to increase the chances of a st.hk linking after 3x st.lk? I can get st.lk x2 > st.hk consistently, but not after three. Just monster timing?
    Practice practice practice. There is no trick like holding the stick in one direction or neutral. You simply have to practice it over and over.


    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • endlesssendlesss Sobat Carnival Joined: Posts: 244
    Nothing will combos off of cr.mk without charge unless the cr.mk is done as a meaty attack.

    Practice practice practice. There is no trick like holding the stick in one direction or neutral. You simply have to practice it over and over.



    Ok, I was worried I was supposed to be pianoing the input or something. I'm assuming it's a 1-frame link after the third lk then.
    avatar courtesy of snk
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    I doubt that it's a single frame link as I can land it five times in a row in HDR's practice mode. It's certainly not easy though. I'd recommend a handful of other combos in place of that one.

    http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/M._Bison_(ST)#Combos_.26_Block_Strings
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Practice practice practice. There is no trick like holding the stick in one direction or neutral. You simply have to practice it over and over.


    I noticed from watching Giga do it, that he seemed to hit the cross-up roundhouse into standing short, then scoot toward the opponent, then do the final standing short x2 into standing Roundhouse.

    I used to have trouble getting all the hits to land, because I would often get the distant far standing Short (most easily recognized by Dictator's grounded foot being perpendicular to the ground) as my 3rd Short and you cannot chain the standing Roundhouse off it.
    But once I started copying the above Giga rhythm, it allowed me to keep within a close enough distance to get all the hits in.

    I still miss the last Roundhouse when my timing is off because I have to slide my fingers over to hit it, but I get it with good regularity now.

    I strongly suggest trying this method.
    You can see in the Taira link that VirtuaFighterFour linked ( ) that Taira is scooting toward the opponent between the standing Shorts. You can actually see his grounded leg edge left across the screen with each subsequent Short.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    I noticed from watching Giga do it, that he seemed to hit the cross-up roundhouse into standing short, then scoot toward the opponent, then do the final standing short x2 into standing Roundhouse.
    Funny you should mention him. GigaMSX is actually the person who showed me how to do this combo. I'll try to dig out the chat logs about the combo sequence and see if he said anything else about it.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Yeah IIRC close LK causes a bit more hitstun than far LK even though they look the same, so it's easier to link HK if you move a tiny bit forward before doing the third LK. Or something like that.

    I like to do it as LK, LK, walk a tiny bit LK, MK~HK. It's easier for me that way, plus if I mistime HK there's a chance I'll get MK at least which still does good damage.

    PS good stuff at the wiki VF4.
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    close LK causes a bit more hitstun than far LK

    I don't believe this is correct.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
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