Bison (dictator) Thread

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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It is not, but there is a reason why he feels that way: close standing short comes out faster and recovers even faster, so it gives more frame advantage at the same time it demands less timing to link. Actual data:

    close standing short
    start-up: 3
    active: 2
    recovery:1

    far standing short
    start-up: 5
    active: 4
    recovery:4

    Funny relatively useless fact: close and far standing roundhouse have the same frame data and animation, but the active hitbox is closer to the ground for the close version. The defensive hitbox is larger, but as it's the closer version, it is a meaningless vulnerability. I guess it is so to prevent it from missing ducking characters at point-blank range.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Yeah IIRC close LK causes a bit more hitstun than far LK
    Why would a light attack do more stun than another light attack? I'm pretty sure all light attacks have 11 frames of hit/blockstun.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Perhaps, together with the longer start-up and recovery, he is comparing the first attack with some second or third one, which are known to offer a 1-frame smaller advantage than the first attack of a combination. Now I don't recall what happened to hit/blockstun or impact freeze that causes this.
  • endlesssendlesss Sobat Carnival Joined: Posts: 244
    Is there any specific screen position necessary to crossup slide after your opponent softens a throw? Is it usable on all characters?
    avatar courtesy of snk
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Is there any specific screen position necessary to crossup slide after your opponent softens a throw? Is it usable on all characters?
    All characters are vulnerable to crossup slide after they tech a in the corner[/URL]. Some characters, Chun and Dhalsim in particular, can be crossed up with a slide after a teched throw from mid screen. You can also bait reversals and punish them into aerial recovery and then go for crossup slide. You can also go air-to-air and then [URL=" your opponent in the corner.

    Crossup slide after air-to-air or punishing a whiffed air move was used back during CPSI SF. The throw tech followup is new to SSSFIIX because throw techs were introduced then.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • LoganKrawLoganKraw Joined: Posts: 69
    Finally someone showing how to do the 5 hit link combo and the rest of the TOD setups.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Seriously? You needed a video for that? LOL.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • WalrussPokerWalrussPoker Shoryukening Joined: Posts: 25
    lol you seriously ask that?

    Video guides and tuts have existed all this time because people use them as reference to learn new things.

    Damn it....i keep falling for the troll bait.
  • PunchingpowaPunchingpowa Joined: Posts: 68
    This forums are so dead that all that seems to be left is trolling anyways lol.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    Seriously? You needed a video for that? LOL.

    yes pasky. its a help tutorial.
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
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    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Thanks for the video. However, I will still fail at it, most likely. I would definitely love to troll my friends with those BS victories. I guess when I learn to use Devil's Reverse properly, learn the TOD combos, stop using the RH Scissors up close and learn the jumping cross-up spacing, things will get a bit better.
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    Thanks for the video. However, I will still fail at it, most likely. I would definitely love to troll my friends with those BS victories. I guess when I learn to use Devil's Reverse properly, learn the TOD combos, stop using the RH Scissors up close and learn the jumping cross-up spacing, things will get a bit better.

    You can't do the combo and yet someone who uses the combo for a victory is BS? Bit hypocritical ;-\
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Dictator at Gian Recital (Japan's 7th Annual Super Turbo 5on5)
    ?????????????????????II X 5on5), Recorded on 11/04/29 TOUGEKI-SBO- on USTREAM. Video Game Marathon

    14:52 Dictator (Yuuvega) vs. Boxer
    29:34 Dictator (gold) vs. Ryu
    46:56 Dictator (Taira) vs. Chun Li
    1:08:12 Dictator (purple) vs. Chun Li
    1:36:11 Dictator (gold) vs. Boxer
    1:38:00 Dictator (gold) vs. Deejay
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    You can't do the combo and yet someone who uses the combo for a victory is BS? Bit hypocritical ;-\
    No-one likes losing a round off a single hit, man. This does not mean he does not need it in high level.
    Dictator (Yuuvega) vs. Boxer
    This was an exxample. That was gross, and as Yuu could not land it, Boxer won.
  • ComedyBlissOptionComedyBlissOption Joined: Posts: 65
    Haha if you think that's gross how about this:

    Off the top of my head other characters besides dict w/ practical crossup dizzy combos:
    ken, gief, cammy, blanka, deejay

    A lot of characters can dizzy (especially easily dizzyable chars like sim) off a deep front jump-in.

    Maybe you should reconsider ST if you don't like games w/ high damage, touch of death combos, and unescapable/nigh-unescapable loopable setups.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    No-one likes losing a round off a single hit, man. This does not mean he does not need it in high level.

    This was an exxample. That was gross, and as Yuu could not land it, Boxer won.

    Dictator has a very dangerous offense and a very vulnerable defense.

    Dictator often takes matches in which he is able to set-up his potentially lethal dangerous offense to fire.

    And on the flip side, Dictator often loses matches where his opponents can successfully maintain powerful zoning (offense or defense) or capitalize on an opening with an extremely effective pressure mix-up offense.

    But that does not diminish the high degree of gamesmanship that each player can bring to bear on the matches.

    And individual matchups will see variations on the strengths of the above elements, who plays cat and who plays mouse, etc.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Haha if you think that's gross how about this:
    I meant Boxer completely destroying Dictator, with close to no chance of retaliation. Reach, damage, speed, priority, invulnerability and constant offense.
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I meant Boxer completely destroying Dictator, with close to no chance of retaliation. Reach, damage, speed, priority, invulnerability and constant offense.

    Funny that you pick Boxer because I think Dictator has a bunch of matches that are about that same level of difficulty, and versus Chun is definitely worse. I don't think it's *quite* as bad as you are portraying it.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Dictator damage
    The damage from old and new versions is the same for this character, with the exception of N.Dictator's diagonal strong, which has different properties.

    close
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    12 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    26 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    far
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    12 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    21 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    26 dmg 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    crouching
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    12 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    21 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    26 dmg, 5-11 sd, 130 st, 5 super

    neutral
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super

    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    21 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    26 dmg, 11-17 sd, 80 st, 5 super

    diagonal
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    11 dmg, 0-4 sd, 20 st, 4 super (old version has the same data as neutral)
    24 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super

    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    21 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    26 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super

    Head Stomp
    17 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super
    19 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super
    21 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super

    Skull Diver
    22 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 0 super
    24 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 0 super
    26 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 0 super

    Demon's Reverse
    24 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super
    26 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super
    27 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 8 super

    Psycho Crusher
    22 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 6 super
    24 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 6 super
    26 dmg, 10-15 sd, 100 st, 6 super

    Knee Press
    19/11 dmg, 10-15/1-7 sd, 100/50 st, 6 super
    21/11 dmg, 10-15/1-7 sd, 100/50 st, 6 super
    22/11 dmg, 10-15/1-7 sd, 100/50 st, 6 super

    super
    17 dmg, 0-3 sd, 20 st, -48 super

    throw
    32-34(behind) dmg, 8-13 sd, 100 st, 0 super
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Dictator frame data (only normals, for now)

    Jab
    3 - 4 - 4
    3 - 4 - 4 (same move?)
    3 - 4 - 4
    3 - inf
    2 - 40 - 6 - inf

    Strong
    2 - 4 - 4 - 8
    2 - 4 - 4 - 8 (same move?)
    2 - 2 - 4 - 8
    3 - 20 - 4 - inf
    3 - 10 - 3 - inf - 2 - 4 - 10 - 6 - inf (new)
    3 - 20 - 6 - inf (old)

    Fierce
    4 - 4 - 6 - 19
    4 - 4 - 6 - 19 (same move?)
    4 - 4 - 6 - 19
    2 - 4 - 10 - 6 - inf
    3 - 6 - 12 - 5 - inf

    Short
    2 - 2 - 1
    2 - 2 - 4 - 3
    4 - 4 - 5
    2 - 40 - 3 - inf
    2 - 40 - 3 - inf

    Forward
    3 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 1
    3 - 3 - 5 - 8 - 1
    4 - 8 - 5
    1 - 2 - 20 - inf
    3 - 20 - 5 - inf

    Roundhouse
    3 - 3 - 6 - 17 - 1
    3 - 3 - 6 - 17 - 1
    6 - 29 - 17
    3 - 2 - 8 - inf
    5 - 8 - 5 - inf

    I will edit this message for the specials when I gather the data. It is hella late now so I am calling it a night.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Nice work osbr. Is this for o.dic as well? The close and far Strongs are not the same, check the wiki, the close version has different hitboxes.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It's for both, only diagonal Strong is different (juggle for new, splash for old).
  • KoopKoop SRK - D.M.V. OG™ (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 5,487 mod
    bump
    Respected... simple as that.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553

    I'd say this is one of the best videos for keeping the Dictator vs. Dictator trap going:
    (starts at 0:27)


    If you get the scissor knockdown during the trap, reset the trap with an upward jump coming down with a short as the video does.

    Also, make sure to use the "pre-charge"/"quick charge" technique for your scissors to be able to execute them quick enough to keep the trap going:


    I have used this trap now for a long time and unless I have lag issues I should be able to kill my opponent if I get them in this. It is for me by far the easiest of his traps to execute and easy in general.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,180
    I'm interested in dat Bipson Shadaloo technology, he seems to have a lot of it. Even meaties that hit SRK's with precise spacing, can someone explain that?
    Skills and attitude prove worth as a player, not the internet.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I'm interested in dat Bipson Shadaloo technology, he seems to have a lot of it. Even meaties that hit SRK's with precise spacing, can someone explain that?
    I am not aware of any such attacks. What I do know is that some long range sweeps can actually beat Sagat's Tiger Uppercut if you delay them a bit (happens sort of often when I use my O.Ken, and as Dictator you can use cr.Forward) and you can use his far kicks to do safe meaties in the sense the recovery frames are far from the tip of the active hitbox, so if you properly time a meaty with the tip, you are safe if Dictator retracts his leg fast enough.

    VFF added a bunch of stuff to Dictator's section, it is worth a read.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Can someone explain N.Bison's psycho crusher lockdown?

    I had Rizone do this to me as guile a long time ago, I think he would do st lk -> cr mp -> mp pyscho -> repeat.

    I tried doing a reversal several times couldn't do anything except get chipped to death. I'd test but I don't quite remember what he was pressing.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I think your talking about "psycho magic". But from what I remember, I thought it only worked on sim. zasspacer could answer this I bet.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    It only works on sim and another dictator, fun fact, i did that to a guile player too couple of weeks before. Its like you said pasky, s.lk, c.mp xx mp psycho, repeat
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Dictator has 3 corner traps that I know of:
    1) Trap that only works vs. another Dictator and works on either corner:
    st.Short -> Short Scissor loop (plus the move sequence to set up the proper spacing; I use up jump coming down with Short)
    (starts at 0:28)

    (NOTE: you must use "pre-charging" to be able to charge the scissor fast enough to keep the loop up
    )
    2) Trap that works vs. Dhalsim on the left corner:
    st.Short -> cr.Strong -> Strong Psycho Crusher (hits 2x) loop (plus the move sequence to set up the proper spacing)
    (starts at 1:14)

    OR
    st.Short -> cr.Forward -> Strong Psycho Crusher (hits 2x) loop
    (starts at 2:22)

    3) Trap that works vs. Dhalsim on the right corner:
    cr.Jab -> cr.Jab -> st.Short -> Strong Psycho Crusher trap
    (NOTE: this one seems to push Dictator away at varying distances which require either timing or move sequence variations (1xcr.Jab or 3xcr.Jab instead of 2xcr.Jab) to keep the trap up. I don't have enough experience with this one to give better info on it)
    (starts at 5:00)


    Here is the link to Nohoho's blog super nohoho fighter ii x that discusses it:
    http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/08/tairas-trickery-and-other-tales-from.html

    Talking about trap #2 above (and probably #3 too), while I have seen it used to some success vs. non-Dhalsim characters, it is my understanding as well that Dictator can be hit out of it. CigarBob talks about breaking the trap:
    "Zass the trap vs Ryu/Ken isn't really a trap. There is a gap between the first and second hits of the drill but there is a trick to DP it. After the first hit is blocked he passes though you and you have to DP backwards to hit him out of it. So after the first hit just Back D DB the jab to get out of it.

    Zazza use to do this to me all the time till I figured out that it could be DP'd."
    source: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sbr-st-tourney-1st-daigo-2nd-frank-bisel-3rd-sabin.119039/page-2#post-4734365

    The window between Psycho Crusher hit stuns makes sense to me because I know that Dictator can be hit out of a blocked Fierce Psycho Crusher (performed with Dictator near a corner, the opponent right next to them, and doing the move so that Dictator travels through the opponent and across toward the other corner) after the first hit stun by many characters by just using a normal attack. (like Ryu doing a standing Fierce, Zangief doing a Lariat, etc.)

    A character can also let the Psycho Crusher hit, and then try to salvage the match by forcing the Dictator player to possibly fail
    their attempt to re-establsih the trap. We see this here:
    (starts at 1:14)
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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,064
    Old Dictator in the house!
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    what is the AA for corner CW pressure?
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    what is the AA for corner CW pressure?
    If the fei player has the timing perfect escaping the cw trap is hard, but if he misstime it you can trade or beat it with jump back strong or roundhouse.
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    YuuVega (N.Dictator) vs Pony Village (N.Zangief)

    It is clear that YuuVega is aware that Psycho Crusher can be used to evade perfectly timed ticks and safe jumps, which most western players did not know before Born2SPD's and Poopasi's complete hitbox sets (props to them and Dammit). You can also see that Pony tries to stuff reversals several times, by using normals and lariats just after the reversal frame.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Yeah, but Jab Crusher which is the one with most invincible frames has only 3 frames, so that's of no use if Zangief actually mashes/triple tap the punch button to have more Grab attempts on SPD. It looks like Pony was unaware about that. Unless Dictator has Super you should always go to SPD after a tick.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Yeah, but Jab Crusher which is the one with most invincible frames has only 3 frames, so that's of no use if Zangief actually mashes/triple tap the punch button to have more Grab attempts on SPD. It looks like Pony was unaware about that. Unless Dictator has Super you should always go to SPD after a tick.

    Wait, as soon as you activate the SPD, that's it, right? It comes out and either it'll grab or it won't. How will mashing give you more throw attempts?
    Roald Dhalsim
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Wait, as soon as you activate the SPD, that's it, right? It comes out and either it'll grab or it won't. How will mashing give you more throw attempts?
    You can get up to 11 active frames if you mash punch.

    I've tried to psycho crusher out of spd attempts, it fails pretty often
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Wow, didn't know about that. How many active frames are there normally? Where can I find this information?
    Roald Dhalsim
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    You can find that info on the Zangief page of the ST wiki. This is so important on certain matchups yet I never see other Giefs using this. Am I the only one who does this? Maybe they are not aware about it?
    Anyway, only Jab SPD can get up to 11 more frames, Strong can get only 8 and Fierce only 6 more. Getting more than 3 frames on the Fierce SPD is very hard without triple tapping, when ticking from crouching Jabs I find it difficult to do.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
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