Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

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  • xenwallxenwall Joined: Posts: 123
    d3v wrote: »
    Cannon Strike, not Spike.

    I really hate Cammy's specials' naming conventions.

    I will say that Cammy looks like a ton of fun so far. I'm curious as to the range of the V-Skill and whether it can be used at a distance where it become fairly ambiguous as to whether it will cross up or not. It certainly seems better than SFIV's Spin Knuckle.
    I play hitbox so I can mash buttons while I'm mashing buttons.
  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    Did someone mention Cr. Hp was cancelable? Killey - did I hear that right or am I mistaken?
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
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  • KilleyKilley Game Over Yeeeaaaahhhhh Joined: Posts: 5,560
    Rayartz wrote: »
    Did someone mention Cr. Hp was cancelable? Killey - did I hear that right or am I mistaken?

    As far as I can remember, cr.HP was not special or V-Trigger cancel-able.
    All posts made by Killey are intended for discerning readers. All views & opinions are subject to change without notice. Killey will not apologize for any misinterpretations of his posts.
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    Frankly I don't mind about the non ex dive being shit to get in. As long as it can be used to whiff punish lows/throws when up close on a hard read I'm fine with it. That is my biggest grip with SF4 cammy, "insta" dive hits my opponent doing OS crouch tech and I'm -2 or 3 WTH.
  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 11,300
    Her dive kick seems to be in between SF4 and SFxT in terms of how good it is. IN 4 is was too good in SFxT it was too bad..I think they might have found the medium here.
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,215
    Sharnt wrote: »
    Frankly I don't mind about the non ex dive being shit to get in. As long as it can be used to whiff punish lows/throws when up close on a hard read I'm fine with it. That is my biggest grip with SF4 cammy, "insta" dive hits my opponent doing OS crouch tech and I'm -2 or 3 WTH.

    ...wha?
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,211 mod
    I just wanna throw sHP and cMK all day like CVS2 Cammy. Fugg dive kikn

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,446 mod
    Hoping her new cr.mk low profiles stuff. If it doesn't, then it should.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    Maybe someone in here can enlighten me on something. I ask this because in the general thread it'll get buried quickly.
    Possibly Killey can help me understand this since you had the opportunity to play it at E3:

    First off I know what Crouch Teching/Stand Teching is, I do it all the time in SF4.
    There are however those who "crouch tech" by mashing Cr. Lp a billion times in block stun or even if you are hitting them.
    So my question, they say crouch teching is gone - therefor Stand Teching is back to being the norm. What about those fools mashing jab if, you are hitting them in block stun and then go to throw are you going to get jabbed out of your throw? or is the throw going to catch them anyway?

    I ask this because this has always been one of my top 3 complaints with SF4 as a series. People who constantly hit buttons.
    I'm hoping and from what I am hearing it "sounds" promising, that actual blocking will be the best option - you are caught hitting buttons you'll get counter hit and get stunned fast is loosely what PR Rog says. Others have mirrored that reflection

    My biggest issues with SF4 as a whole is the mash jabbers, mash ultra, mash reversal, jumping monkey's that just go HAM and get rewarded for it.
    Peter says you have to work in this game - I love the sound of that!
    People are certainly still going to wake up Critical Art if they have it, people are still going to jump all over the place. But "IF" what everyone says is true. The scrubby SF4 tactics that are really pretty legit, because it works. If it doesn't work in SF5, it'll be my favorite fighting game ever!!
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
    SFV Goals: To be competent with every character and help others do the same!
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  • KilleyKilley Game Over Yeeeaaaahhhhh Joined: Posts: 5,560
    edited June 2015
    Rayartz wrote: »
    Maybe someone in here can enlighten me on something. I ask this because in the general thread it'll get buried quickly.
    Possibly Killey can help me understand this since you had the opportunity to play it at E3:

    First off I know what Crouch Teching/Stand Teching is, I do it all the time in SF4.
    There are however those who "crouch tech" by mashing Cr. Lp a billion times in block stun or even if you are hitting them.
    So my question, they say crouch teching is gone - therefor Stand Teching is back to being the norm. What about those fools mashing jab if, you are hitting them in block stun and then go to throw are you going to get jabbed out of your throw? or is the throw going to catch them anyway?

    I ask this because this has always been one of my top 3 complaints with SF4 as a series. People who constantly hit buttons.
    I'm hoping and from what I am hearing it "sounds" promising, that actual blocking will be the best option - you are caught hitting buttons you'll get counter hit and get stunned fast is loosely what PR Rog says. Others have mirrored that reflection

    My biggest issues with SF4 as a whole is the mash jabbers, mash ultra, mash reversal, jumping monkey's that just go HAM and get rewarded for it.
    Peter says you have to work in this game - I love the sound of that!
    People are certainly still going to wake up Critical Art if they have it, people are still going to jump all over the place. But "IF" what everyone says is true. The scrubby SF4 tactics that are really pretty legit, because it works. If it doesn't work in SF5, it'll be my favorite fighting game ever!!

    You should really be asking this in the general discussion thread and not in the Cammy thread but I'll answer your questions.

    The crouch tech option select where you get cr.short when you do down back+LP+LK simultaneously is gone. What happens when you do that sequence is a standing throw and if the opponent is not in range you get the throw whiff animation. So yes, you can still tech a throw by crouching but you're committing to the throw tech attempt.

    In regards to cr.Jab mashing to beat throws that isn't specific to SF4 that's exists in pretty much every fighting game and is apart of the meta. Blocking beats buttons, throws beats blocking, and buttons beats throws. This needs to exist otherwise throws would be too good if they could beat buttons as well. So yes, in SFV if they're mashing jab and you're going for a throw attempt you will get hit out of your throw. That's why you need to use that information, recreate the scenario for the opponent and then use frame traps instead to counter hit them into a good damage combo. If they're smart they'll learn to respect your pressure and that will open up your throw options. If they aren't smart they eat counter hit combos all day and that's even more rewarding then landing a throw.

    It's really apparent that this game doesn't cater to the below average player. There's a huge focus on the neutral game and offense. There's no focus attack to bail you out of the footsie game once in a while and there's no come back mechanics. If you're opponent is out playing you on the ground there's nothing you can do about it besides playing better. There are no checkmate situations where you can get a guaranteed chip kill victory. Defensive options are more limited but with the lack of hard knockdowns leading into set ups you can play solid defense. However, you can't down back forever since recoverable chip damage off of medium and heavy normals add up. The game is definitely tuned to keep the game fast paced.
    All posts made by Killey are intended for discerning readers. All views & opinions are subject to change without notice. Killey will not apologize for any misinterpretations of his posts.
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    Killey wrote: »
    That's why you need to use that information, recreate the scenario for the opponent and then use frame traps instead to counter hit them into a good damage combo. [...] If they aren't smart they eat counter hit combos all day and that's even more rewarding then landing a throw.
    The thing is, most "mashers" are doing it poorly, so if you do a standard frametrap with a say 2f gaps to prevent them to mash anything in between they will never fall to it because they aren't mashing hard enough. Thus you get to the thing that most players do. A delayed crouch tech os. And this is an entire different hell to beat.
    If you try to get them by throwing they will always tech it because of the semi infinite tech throw window in SF4.
    If you try to to frametrap them they will never mash in between if your frametraps are too tight.
    If you delay your frametrap as it is REALLY difficult to delay by a few frames (3-4) a frame trap and most character do not have a longer startup move opening on a combo as good while being also safe (or even + for most openings with mediums) you are likely to get hit.
    There is still the whiff punish but most character do not have the move speed or the divekicks enabling this game style.

    It all boils down to the result that you KNOW what your opponent does, you KNOW how to beat it, but because of the engine the results are semi random and are really frustrating to get. Well at an intermediate level at least.
  • KilleyKilley Game Over Yeeeaaaahhhhh Joined: Posts: 5,560
    Again that's not really an issue with SF4's game engine but more to do with the player. KoFXIII has frame traps against mash cr.B but they were pretty tight so you had to delay the frame trap to catch the mashers.

    SF4 it had a different meta with delayed crouch teching to avoid the standard frame traps people were using and then people did other things to counter act that. Tokido and Daigo delay they're normals and still catch people even though under regular circumstances if the opponent had push a button earlier they would have interrupted them. You're probably mistiming your frame trap to catch people delaying their crouch tech os. The other thing people were doing was using a slower normal to catch the delayed crouch tech. For example, Viper s.Short, cr.Strong is a frame trap but it's pretty tight and most people don't fall for it. I can either delay my cr.Strong further to catch the delay crouch tech or I could use s.Short, s.Fierce instead and use the extra start up frames of s.Fierce to catch the delayed crouch tech and believe me this works pretty well.

    In the case of SFV I don't think this will be happening but it's too early to tell. It's something you'll have to test on during the multiple beta phases.
    All posts made by Killey are intended for discerning readers. All views & opinions are subject to change without notice. Killey will not apologize for any misinterpretations of his posts.
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    edited June 2015
    You're probably mistiming your frame trap to catch people delaying their crouch tech os.
    Of course I am, but everyone is. Being me, my opponent mashing in a few frames window in a semi random pattern. The issue is not the solution is non existent, it is that it is far too hard to implement into my game for being just a basic mechanic in the game. You have to get to pro level to enable the necessary precision to catch these. A basic mechanic in the game is entirely defeated until you get to a relatively high level of execution just by a simple trick.

    I already evacuated the slower normals too (It looks like you missed a few words in my previous post). Not every character does have a normal being a combo starter which is also safe in guard. As Yun, I can't use my heavies to delay further than with my mediums because those are hugely superiors in terms of frame advantage, confirm and combo opportunity.

    That is one of my biggest issue with the game. In VF5 FS by example with the buffer on normals in this game if you mash you get counter hit, you take a decision and you assume the consequences. SF4 forces you to have precise timings everywhere to get even the most basic things done.
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,446 mod
    Really digging her new low forward.
    rysCfWd.jpg
    Here's hoping it low profiles some stuff.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    The reach and speed looks fantastic!
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
    SFV Goals: To be competent with every character and help others do the same!
    Overwatch: Tracer, D.Va, Junkrat, Mercy, Mei
  • melflomilmelflomil Above Average Fighter Joined: Posts: 2,813
    edited June 2015
    d3v wrote: »
    Really digging her new low forward.
    rysCfWd.jpg
    Here's hoping it low profiles some stuff.

    The most important thing i get from this picture is that ass
    Post edited by melflomil on
    SF5 = Laura
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,465
    edited June 2015
    Sharnt wrote: »
    You're probably mistiming your frame trap to catch people delaying their crouch tech os.
    Of course I am, but everyone is. Being me, my opponent mashing in a few frames window in a semi random pattern. The issue is not the solution is non existent, it is that it is far too hard to implement into my game for being just a basic mechanic in the game. You have to get to pro level to enable the necessary precision to catch these. A basic mechanic in the game is entirely defeated until you get to a relatively high level of execution just by a simple trick.

    I already evacuated the slower normals too (It looks like you missed a few words in my previous post). Not every character does have a normal being a combo starter which is also safe in guard. As Yun, I can't use my heavies to delay further than with my mediums because those are hugely superiors in terms of frame advantage, confirm and combo opportunity.

    That is one of my biggest issue with the game. In VF5 FS by example with the buffer on normals in this game if you mash you get counter hit, you take a decision and you assume the consequences. SF4 forces you to have precise timings everywhere to get even the most basic things done.


    I totally agree with this and it is one of the reasons why I stopped playing sf4.

    I really didn't like that I had to guess correctly between 3 different tech timings to frame trap crouchtech (fast, regular, or delayed) and that even then I still had to also guess correctly on 3 different frame trap timings for hitting stand tech (much easier since you could hit them low, but I digress, that was rare) and then I also had to guess if they were going to reversal or jump away (yep, I actually had people jumping out of my throw attempts on occasion. It wasn't a usual thing but it did happen occasionally) it all just made sf4 feel like out and out work to me.

    And to top it all off, at the time there was no way outside of playing people, to practice the timing to hit something such as delayed crouchtech.

    You couldn't easily set it up in training mode so you had to have someone be your dummy for awhile... Never met anyone willing to do that for decent periods of time (I would have reciprocated of course) but lol funnily enough the 4 players that I found that were the best at frame trapping delayed crouch tech consistently all had had live in brothers that also played the game at high levels... Doesn't take a genius to figure out part of their training regiment or why they had an unfair advantage at the time (and yes I know about the new t-mode way to practice against crouch tech)

    The point still stands that it as a BASIC mechanic was extremely overpowered at an intermediate level of play and made the game exceptionally boring if you didn't use a divekick/srk fadc character who could frame trap very easily with those moves.

    My solution was I quit the game. Good riddance to crouch teching and shit netplay. Now I play SG as my main game..,SOOOOOO much better. When I throw people they get thrown unless they guessed right. If they teched and I went low I win 99.9% of the time. If I went for throw and they blocked low, then I usually still throw them.

    I feel like the choices I make actual,y matter and that because of that I can actually learn and that my losses are earned and so are my wins.

    But I've been playing that game for over 3 years and I'm ready to share my time with it with another game so that's why sf5 (amongst other fighting games) is being given a shot by me.

    Also, I just realised this is off topic. Sorry. Won't happen again (can't believe I posted in the cammy thread.)
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • ScallatScallat Joined: Posts: 317
    How safe/unsafe are her Cannon Drills? Are we talking like SFIV (unsafe), Super Turbo (Safe from the right range/against the right character) or HD Remix (safe except at point blank range - drill loops!)?
    : I'm like the angle opposite the hypotenuse.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,446 mod
    I keep wondering why exactly Cammy's Cannon Strike is now limited to her forward jump. I was watching some old CvS2 vids and John Choi was making good use her it out of a backwards jump. Yet at the same time, it wasn't exactly as strong there it was in IV.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,211 mod
    I think it's just knee jerk reaction to the strength of dive kicks from SFIV. I was randomly playing SFIV again on PC because I felt like it, and Juri has the same thing where you have to jump forward or straight up to dive kick. It just seems tacked on.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    It'd be nice if you could do non-EX cannon strike's jumping back. It is great for baits, catching people hitting buttons or just off guard in general.
    Anyone besides me think it is odd she doesn't have an Air Throw in SF5? Could be simply because she wasn't completed yet and will have an Air Throw later down the line.
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
    SFV Goals: To be competent with every character and help others do the same!
    Overwatch: Tracer, D.Va, Junkrat, Mercy, Mei
  • KilleyKilley Game Over Yeeeaaaahhhhh Joined: Posts: 5,560
    Rayartz wrote: »
    It'd be nice if you could do non-EX cannon strike's jumping back. It is great for baits, catching people hitting buttons or just off guard in general.
    Anyone besides me think it is odd she doesn't have an Air Throw in SF5? Could be simply because she wasn't completed yet and will have an Air Throw later down the line.

    People, please keep in mind that she can do cannon strike from a backwards jump in V-Trigger.

    I believe Combofiend mentioned during one of the e3 streams that Cammy is incomplete at the moment and that her air throw will be added later.
    All posts made by Killey are intended for discerning readers. All views & opinions are subject to change without notice. Killey will not apologize for any misinterpretations of his posts.
  • ruthless_nashruthless_nash Joined: Posts: 2,076
    Hope cammy gets a deep red/maroon color, that would look totally hot.
  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    I'm curious how many colors each character will have in the end.
    of course DLC costumes will come, kinda hoping there is at least 1 costume you can unlock or something.
    That second color Blue/white is sick! I use color 6 on the original outfit it's a deep blue (kinda like Chun's original)
    I like how her eyes change color on the second slot. Hopefully they can take this further with hair color swaps etc.,
    I made a red head cammy in SFxTk (not even much of a red head fan) but she looked smoke'n' haha
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
    SFV Goals: To be competent with every character and help others do the same!
    Overwatch: Tracer, D.Va, Junkrat, Mercy, Mei
  • Bowser-DaimaoBowser-Daimao Joined: Posts: 35
    Am I the only one who doesn't like her new face? I seriously can't be the only one.
    Mains: SSBM Marth SF3TS, Dudley. SF4, Sakura and Dudley.
  • john4pjohn4p Joined: Posts: 817
    Looks a bit unusual but heaps better than her SF4 face.
  • melflomilmelflomil Above Average Fighter Joined: Posts: 2,813
    I wonder if Cammy's crouching fierce still has ridiculous frame advantage on hit.
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  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,146
    melflomil wrote: »
    I wonder if Cammy's crouching fierce still has ridiculous frame advantage on hit.

    Definetly not. It looks very different from SFIV and you can't link anything after it.

    It might be her crush counter normal though, I'm not sure
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,446 mod
    I hope at least that medium and heavy attacks are safe at range. If you've played CvS2 Cammy, her rushdown came from playing "offensive footsies" with her strong pokes at mid range. Unlike most other games, rushdown in Street Fighter doesn't have to be point blank.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    edited July 2015
    Regarding safeness:
    cr.HK is definitely not, f.HK not at all. cr.HP I don't know, I don't understand what it should be used for.
    s/cr.MK are really good.
    As there are only ps4 pads on the Japan setups I have been playing only with s/cr.MK and throw.

    b.HP is a really good meaty.
    Post edited by Sharnt on
  • KilleyKilley Game Over Yeeeaaaahhhhh Joined: Posts: 5,560
    Cammy's cr.Fierce and s.RH are her crush counters. I think their could be some good setups to land the cr.Fierce crush counter but not sure what you can link after wards. I know at least with s.RH crush counter you can link Spiral Arrow after wards.
    All posts made by Killey are intended for discerning readers. All views & opinions are subject to change without notice. Killey will not apologize for any misinterpretations of his posts.
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    s.HK is cool bc you can anti air with it too. DP is too steep (and requires a motion erf pad) so it's nice.
    BTW cross under dashs are like amazing to anti air in this game.
  • MetroxylonMetroxylon Missing link? Joined: Posts: 2,633
    edited July 2015
    I noticed at around 1:23 of that first video, Cammy does some pressure strings with fierce, then dashes in to continue pressure. At about 1:25 the fierce hits, but it looks like it caught Ryu jumping. What I notice is that there is significantly less of an air reset when this happens, resulting in Ryu being left in the same pressure situation.

    In SF4, he would've flown back about 1/4th of the screen, giving him some breathing room, and spacing opportunities, and a chance to reduce his stun gauge. It seems intentional, but this is the first time I've seen it, so I don't know how it works for all the characters. I wonder if there could be strong reset potential when this happens. Like maybe Cammy can cancel the fierce into a hooligan + dive kick for some 50/50 ambiguity upon landing into big damage.
    Are you clutch or crutch?
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  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    Oh yeah forgot to talk about it, Cammy CA is DOPE, HK version punish anything anywhere except full screen <3
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,446 mod
    From the panel, Peter mentioned that Cammy was designed to be "footsie heavy."
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    I'm excited to get my hands on a new Chun-Li....but Cammy, Cammy you look so good! lol
    Footsie Heavy is fine with me. Cammy had to take lots of risks in SF4.
    Chun Li, Juri and Laura - Loyalty for LIFE!
    SFV Goals: To be competent with every character and help others do the same!
    Overwatch: Tracer, D.Va, Junkrat, Mercy, Mei
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