Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

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  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Cammy is the Ryu of SFV.
    Therefore noone will give her credit for beeing good unless the game revolves more around fundamentals.
    The current Top 7 on the Tierlists of those guys are literaly "thorw shit out to get 300 damage and repetetive 50/50's, lolV-Trigger"
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,826 mod
    Cipher wrote: »
    Cammy is the Ryu of SFV.

    Really?
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • GreenwoodGreenwood Earth, the only true God Joined: Posts: 885
    Maybe I was harsh saying "mindless sheep". I'm just tired of people who complain when they don't even know what they're talking about and they are just mimicking what someone else said. I try not to comment on tier lists because I have no idea what I'm talking about either. Also, being a Gold ranked player, tier lists don't really apply to me anyway.

    I mean, my personal tier list wouldn't make sense to anyone because I don't know enough and I'd only base it off of the characters I struggle against.
    Inj2: Wonder Woman
    SFV: Cammy
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    edited April 30
    Cammy's DP is more like Mika's AA grab than a Shoto DP. The different versions are for different distances.

    In the patchnotes they put Cammy's DP in the exact same category as Juri's DP FFS! Juri's LK DP is her SF4 Pinwheel! A completely different move! Cammy's staple, amazing DP is getting Juri's Pinwheel's properties! Sounds like a hilarious joke!
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    Just got back from Korea after 2 weeks. What did I miss? Why hasn't the balance patch dropped? Where the fuck is my air throw?
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    SunTzu81 wrote: »
    Just got back from Korea after 2 weeks. What did I miss? Why hasn't the balance patch dropped? Where the fuck is my air throw?

    Got delayed.

    And according to 5 japanese players Cammy is not Top 7.
    We midtier now boys!
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  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    Did they say until when? I feel like they want to nerf Rog and are holding off to see as they don't want to do another balance patch this year. I feel like this thing is going to drop two weeks before EVO and then not be allowed because it was too close to be added.

    Japan finally learned how to stop Kaz apparently.
  • carupscarups Joined: Posts: 471
    edited May 3
    Delayed until CFN patch drops. My expectations say mid/end of June.

    And where the fuck is Kaz? Haven't seen him in a while.
  • BixHDBixHD Semi-lurker Joined: Posts: 193
    carups wrote: »
    Delayed until CFN patch drops. My expectations say mid/end of June.

    It'll probably be another mid-year situation with 2 characters dropping at the same time.
    carups wrote: »
    And where the fuck is Kaz? Haven't seen him in a while.

    he's been playing Xrd and T7 lately apparently (and also League of Legends on godsgarden streams lmao)
    not really active anymore
    usually playing Yang, Ryu, and Cammy in every SF

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 PRAISED BEEF Joined: Posts: 54,654 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Pertho wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »
    Cammy is the Ryu of SFV.

    Really?

    I don't think it's far off. Minus the fireball Cammy gives you better "traditional shoto tools" than Ryu.

    ANIME IS DA WAY.  Anime EVO Takeover 2018.  No more CAPCPOM!  There will be oki and there will be setplay


  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Pertho wrote: »
    Cipher wrote: »
    Cammy is the Ryu of SFV.

    Really?

    Yeah, what speaks against it?
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  • BMsirhc1313BMsirhc1313 I'm 0ld Joined: Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Cipher wrote: »
    Cammy is the Ryu of SFV.

    Kind of thought the same thing before.
  • BMsirhc1313BMsirhc1313 I'm 0ld Joined: Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I dont know about this Air grab. Hoping someone can change my mind with it.
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    It's blah like every other air grab. Hence why no one really uses them currently anyway. Just think of using it when lk DP no longer works to stop cross ups. Just jump back grab as that will be her only answer to deal with some of these jump ins. She got nerfed but everyone thinks its a buff.
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    If you reach Diamond rank in the PS4 Beta do you keep the points? I reached Diamond in the PS4 Beta but when I was getting the weekly challenges for FM it still showed me as Ultra Platinum.
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    The airthrow animation still makes me think, what the fuck were they smoking. It doesn't make any sense and the only good thing about it, is the dumb face of your opponent.
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    Street Fighter: Cammy
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  • BMsirhc1313BMsirhc1313 I'm 0ld Joined: Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    forest31 wrote: »
    If you reach Diamond rank in the PS4 Beta do you keep the points? I reached Diamond in the PS4 Beta but when I was getting the weekly challenges for FM it still showed me as Ultra Platinum.

    from what I hear you do not keep points in beta
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,270
    edited May 13
    What sort of canned meaties can Cammy get after VT Spiral Arrow against backroll? Best thing I've come up with thus far are VT SA - dash - whiff c.MP - s.MP, which links into CA and VT DP (regular DP doesn't reach) if they try to jab, but the positioning afterwards isn't very good if they just block. VT SA - dash - whiff c.LP - c.HP also seemed to work, but that's really low reward on hit unless you have CA.

    Anything else I might have missed here? I also haven't tested against normal wakeup and no wakeup yet, since pretty much nobody does anything but backroll against me.
  • HaztlanHaztlan Joined: Posts: 1,154
    Why a dash stMP only let you link into CA or VT DP?

    Anyway, after VT SA you can whiff bMP dash crMP and against backrol you will be +3 on block, +7 on hit and +9 on counter hit so you can link whatever you want. It also beats quickrise 4f jabs via priority, but then you have normal values of fadv since against quickrise its not meaty.
    a= ​Δt / ​Δv
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,270
    edited May 13
    Haztlan wrote: »
    Why a dash stMP only let you link into CA or VT DP?

    Spacing. Nothing else reached.
    Changing up the sequence to VT SA - c.MP - dash - s.MP remedied that though. Thanks for the other setup as well =)

    Any other setups I should know? I have stuff for HK and MK arrow that seems pretty functional. Something for c.HK would be useful, and if there is anything actually good for corner forward throw (meaty s.MK / c.HP is a thing but it's not very exciting). I'd happily take it as well. Word has it Cammy doesn't have much oki though.

    Also, is she always negative on block after a non-VT divekick?
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    forest31 wrote: »
    If you reach Diamond rank in the PS4 Beta do you keep the points? I reached Diamond in the PS4 Beta but when I was getting the weekly challenges for FM it still showed me as Ultra Platinum.

    I thought after the beta they transferred over. At least that's what I remember happening before or I magically got points from something else?
  • BixHDBixHD Semi-lurker Joined: Posts: 193
    edited May 14
    SunTzu81 wrote: »
    I thought after the beta they transferred over. At least that's what I remember happening before or I magically got points from something else?

    nah, you don't keep anything you get in the CFN betas. The points that were given out back in March were the ones that were considered lost from server issues from a while before
    not really active anymore
    usually playing Yang, Ryu, and Cammy in every SF

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  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    I never meaty with c MP...if y'all could whip up a meaty setup for s LK and/or s MP it would be great, thanks!

    c MK can combo into a lot more than HK DP, but HK DP is the longest reaching option and therefore the most reliable combo.


    On CH any version of Air QCB+HK can combo into 2 c MPes!
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Holy shit out Divekick can combo into cr.mp?
    Thats wasn't know since February 2016! Oh wait it was.

    Also why would you do point blank cr.mk what leaves you minus and has more startup, than cr.mp, what can Combo into st.mp -> st.hp from that range.
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  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    edited May 19
    @forest31 for meaty st lk and st mp I use visual timing. The dash method after SA is too predictable now.

    Also counter hit divekick only combos into 2x cr mp if it hits in a spot that would leave you negative on block. So if you go for that and they block you will most likely get 3 frame jabbed or will be at least -2. If you space it so it's safe you can still do cr mp on counter hit just not 2x. However if you place it perfectly to be safe you can do cr lp, b+mp TC on CH, but it's really tough to hit that spot consistently, at least for me. I've only seen Kaz be really consistent with it. What I do is if I see the dive kick counter hit I go for cr mp and if I visually can tell I'm close enough I will do a second cr mp otherwise I go into spiral arrow.
  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 714
    sLK I can understand cause it can b difficult but stmp is pretty easy u should b able to meaty that visually by now. I used to meaty with crmp in laggy match since I believe it comes out faster than stmp. I think it's more active as well maybe?
  • HaztlanHaztlan Joined: Posts: 1,154
    Reacting to opponent wake up after SA is easier with a 6f button than a 4f?
    With 4f is already hard enough to react in time, with 6f is pretty much impossible, you're just reading your opponent. Go into training mode and record both quickrise wakeup 3f and backrise wakeup 3f. Try to react with stMP to the different wake ups... it can't be done.

    The "hurr durr but stMP has more active frames" excuse makes no sense, active frames doesn't help when the problem is to react fast enough so that you don't get counter hitted by wake up jab.
    a= ​Δt / ​Δv
  • carupscarups Joined: Posts: 471
    edited May 28
    Everyone should stop and check out Cammy's USF2 theme here.

    It's got nothing to do with SFV but I don't care and I think you won't either.
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    I don't think there's a single Cammy still in ComboBreaker2017! Kazunoko and that Korean Cammy lost, Poonko lost with Kaawleen, Xiao Hai was at E League, K Bad lost with Kaahreeen, I saw Alex Myers lose twice iirc, the list goes on! Top players are choosing Cammy and are losing, and Poonko and K Bad have abandoned her. Not saying Cammy is bad of course. We still see Cammy win the occasional tournament. But I think Karin is a better character and Karin isn't top 5 so I'd say neither is Cammy. Thoughts?
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Shut up
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  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    forest31 wrote: »
    I don't think there's a single Cammy still in ComboBreaker2017! Kazunoko and that Korean Cammy lost, Poonko lost with Kaawleen, Xiao Hai was at E League, K Bad lost with Kaahreeen, I saw Alex Myers lose twice iirc, the list goes on! Top players are choosing Cammy and are losing, and Poonko and K Bad have abandoned her. Not saying Cammy is bad of course. We still see Cammy win the occasional tournament. But I think Karin is a better character and Karin isn't top 5 so I'd say neither is Cammy. Thoughts?

    I think Cammy just got figured out is all. If you recall everyone was saying she was top tier or #1 right after the patch dropped because she got the +3 ob from st mp and could combo into her TC finally. Kazanoko was blowing up the Japanese players at the time, Xaio Hai was winning majors, and Chris T was crying like a bitch he couldn't whiff punish her so she was brain dead. Fast forward 3 months when the Japanese made their new tier list in which Cammy wasn't even on there. Why? because they all figured out how to deal with her shit, which at the end of the day is fairly easy to deal with unlike the plethora of other characters that can do 50/50s or a fuck ton of damage off of a random standing CC move. Cammy's ability to win is based on her pressure and people not knowing how to deal with that pressure. The rest of it is inconsequential as she has no overhead, 50/50s, fishing CC move in the neutral. You basically hold down back, wait, and only hit a button when there's an opening otherwise you are just fishing for that CC against her in the neutral. Learn where those openings are and when you need to tech and don't need to tech and Cammy's pretty much fucked. The problem is when you have characters like Balrog, Laura, Urien, Ibuki that can land one hit and put you into a 50%+ damage/stun situation it doesn't really matter if you caught them with a couple shimmys or grabs as the odds are heavily favored towards them getting that one hit. To compete with these characters you have to have some dirty tactics/gimmicks (of which Cammy's suck) or play 100% all of the time with her. When you compare her abilities to other characters like Karin or Necalli it's no wonder people switch to them over Cammy. I mean when you look at Karin, except for anti airs she beats Cammy in all other aspects so why not. I think KBrad even said playing Karin over Cammy felt like playing SFV in easy mode. Didn't Punk even say something to that effect? I'm definitely not trying to downplay Cammy's abilities but when you play someone that really knows the match up it's rough as you really can't mix them up with anything, but when they don't know the match up it seems pretty free.
  • CammyWhiteCatCammyWhiteCat Joined: Posts: 15
    so does Cammy have an airthrow with the new update or not?
    SFV: Cammy USFIV: Cammy SFII: Cammy KOF14: Cammy Tekken 7: Cammy Clayfighter 63 1/3: Cammy
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    so does Cammy have an airthrow with the new update or not?

    Yes
  • CammyWhiteCatCammyWhiteCat Joined: Posts: 15
    and apparently she still has this awful animation...
    Capcom...
    why??
    SFV: Cammy USFIV: Cammy SFII: Cammy KOF14: Cammy Tekken 7: Cammy Clayfighter 63 1/3: Cammy
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    and apparently she still has this awful animation...
    Capcom...
    why??

    Because it's the least of their problems.
  • GreenwoodGreenwood Earth, the only true God Joined: Posts: 885
    edited June 6
    ?ui=2&ik=3f9f7cfb4a&view=fimg&th=15c63738c06afc58&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=1569002229054046208-local0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ9Oe-4-n7I6jb0zSsslIU7RxWkzjDscUHtZAFA0UmzQM10zCZAV3VYL4lwTQBJDvxTlTrhoLZAwaJ0W-p9GnY5GV-l5UGItTGy7npVs8Q3DeZVYj7Rmp3RW0zM&ats=1496318702478&rm=15c63738c06afc58&zw&sz=w1600-h794

    Laura on the way up from a neutral jump, Cammy on the way down with a cross up. Guess who gets hit.
    Post edited by Greenwood on
    Inj2: Wonder Woman
    SFV: Cammy
  • CammyWhiteCatCammyWhiteCat Joined: Posts: 15
    yo we can't see shit
    SFV: Cammy USFIV: Cammy SFII: Cammy KOF14: Cammy Tekken 7: Cammy Clayfighter 63 1/3: Cammy
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    You fucked the link up.
    Retry soldier!
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  • GreenwoodGreenwood Earth, the only true God Joined: Posts: 885
    edited June 3
    Hmmm, sorry about that. It looks fine on my computer. I guess I don't understand how to fix it. My bad. Basically, I crossed up Laura but she did a neutral jump MK and the back of her neck has a hit box that beat my j. lk. Just bitching, nothing important.
    Inj2: Wonder Woman
    SFV: Cammy
  • SeaLeafDojoSeaLeafDojo Joined: Posts: 21
    edited June 9
    Does anyone know the effects of "Limited the follow-up attacks after a hit at the base" for light and medium C. Spike for the new patch change? "Base" meaning grounded hit? or lower hit box?
    Been comparing the old and new data for grounded hits and it doesn't seem to be any different. Anybody can tell me what is going on?
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    edited June 16
    Searching for a match 4+ bars was taking awhile so I made this video. The combo is similar to a Karin CC s HK staple combo. As you can see, it does more than with f+HK, c MP. A walk forward is required before the second s HK to be in close range so the s MP, s HP can reach. Being right up against the opponent when you hit the initial CC s HK is probably required as well.
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    @forest31 Comparing this to Karin's st HK CC combo makes me smile. If only our st hk could do what hers does. You do get a little more damage (3 damage isn't much) with this version, but I still think the second one is better as it does more stun, and if you do have CA you can go into it at the end rather than v-trigger for 510 damage. There's a lot of times that you'll end up just getting the meter for CA when the last CS hits, but if you already hit v-trigger after the first st hk CC then you already blew that opportunity and doing CA at that point just nets you less damage overall. I'm also not a fan of the walk forward combos in the game, especially with a character that has to be 100% all the time. I mean say you get the st HK CC, you walk forward and then watch the next st hk whiff as they crouch blocked because you were one frame off on the walk, so they punish you and you lose all that damage. At that point all I'm thinking is FUCK why didn't I just go for the easier one that does 402 damage instead of 405 and always hits or at least forces a block if mistimed. Unless it's a guaranteed CC at a specific range like against a blocked DP it's a gamble to go for those combos imo. Even st mp, st mp, cr mk xx SA whiffs on me sometimes unless I was right on them on the first hit and even then the counter hit pushback can screw with it. In most CC situations in the neutral, like what Karin would be able to land at a distance with st hk, I almost always have to do the dash B+Mp TC combo as nothing else effective will reach besides SA.
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    I'm a diamond Cammy and I get frustrated by Dhalsims but Verloren wow
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    How did you reach Diamond?
    I'm still surprised you passed trough gold, since you start to discover now shit we know since february 2016!
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    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    I got over the Guile matchup maybe. SunTzu a micro walk is a pretty common occurrance in SFV combos to maximize damage. So I guess you don't do the below Ryu all resouces combo? Also, after a max distance CC s HK, as I show, dash, b+MP, V Trigger, s MP, the s HP is prone to missing due to range. Cammy's dash is actually pretty short compared to a lot of other characters.
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    @forest31 Oh I agree they are pretty common in the game. I just prefer to avoid them if I can choose a simpler option that does only 3 damage less. Also I wasn't recommending to do st hk CCdash B+mp activate v-trigger with my last comment if that is what you inferred. I actually don't recommend activating v-trigger after a st hk CC combo. You mentioned it whiffs in one option and the other option only nets you 60 extra damage using the whole v-trigger over just doing the standard TC combo into CS (370 vs 310). You can even net 354 damage if you want to use one bar of meter to do EX hooligan dive combo instead of just CS. Blowing a v-trigger there just seems like a waste of resources due to the scaling.

  • forest31forest31 No throw break! Joined: Posts: 742
    I kept getting my LP DP lose outright to the Vega's jump ins. It gave him a few counterhit jump ins and was the big difference in the match. I think the Vega matchup got a lot harder for Cammy with the LP DP's nerf. Guile's c MK looks really good to try to counter Cammy's s MK. Look at that Kolin Blockstring! I'll do a video on it. When I was looking to Super I found moving my thumb over to the PS4 controller's analog stick made it easier to react with Super. I didn't do that in that last round VS Kolin. Constructive criticism appreciated!
    youtube.com/user/ForestTekkenVideos
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Use M DP or back+mp
    Whiffpunish cr.mk
    Stop pressing lp, after Kolins cr.mp, thats + on block
    General stop pressing Buttons after shit that is + on block.

    You're getting whiffpunished like crazy and still throw stuff out of range out, while your opponents just wait for this.
    Random backfists without setup and reliance on Hooligans.

    At least I learned that Diamond and Silver Vegas play 1:1 the same.
    Random Sweep, random Barcelonas, random Walldives, jab mashing and the same blockstring without using mixups, Jab -> Commandthrow /throw
    The more funny thing is, how you got hit by all of this constantly.

    Also you rely to much on Jump-ins and Hooligans.
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  • SunTzu81SunTzu81 Joined: Posts: 519
    edited July 8
    @forest31 Wow you must have been in that guiles head because dude was just letting you whiff st mk all day. It's like he forgot he has sonic boom.

    I think you know most of this already but just weren't thinking about it at the time. This is what I saw that might help you.

    Against Kolin: Note that neutral jump is a good option to beat her v-skill in neutral range. They love throwing it out to catch pokes or you walking in since it's basically safe at that range on block, but if you neutral jump it's a nice chuck of damage (note last round last game how well it worked for you). Cammy's v-skill is pretty bad against Kolin in most cases as her fireballs are in the air anyway, so I don't recommend using them against her. You got hit out way more times then you hit her.

    @ 6:56 This hooligan was solid as it was sort of hard to see coming with the setup and is good for catching those always trying to walk back, but doing the one right after was definitely YOLO.

    @7:02 This is where you lost this round basically. You jumped here hoping for a cross up, but it looked like a good range for lk divekick to be safe and might have caught her low kick into a combo. Kolin has good anti air options, so you have to scare them into not wanting to anti air. Try starting with a quick divekick as it's harder to react too. Eventually they will start throwing out counters to stop it so then you can start doing delayed jumps in or empty jump ins which makes it tough for them to get a read. Sadly she caught you with a jab here and did a cross under giving her the stun. I pretty much always assume a dash is coming after an anti air jab now, but it does feel like a guess most of the time.

    @8:29 After the v-trigger dive kick you go for a grab. It seems like you hadn't been paying attention to what your opponent has been doing, but had been looking to react or try something random to catch her off guard most of the time. At no point in those rounds has the Kolin player shown that he/she does not want to walk back on block (except when cornered which is the round you won since she couldn't walk back). You should have used that information to determine the most likely option the opponent was going to make next and then taken that away from them forcing them to do what you want. For example if you had done on her wakeup/block st lk to cr lk, cr lp xx SA repeat until she stopped walking back, then changed to st lk-grab. This would have forced her to not walk back and then forced her to have to hit a button or take the grab. In either case the option she prefers (walk back) is gone. You have to read the opponent and then condition them based on those reads. I'm guilty of this as well though as after a few hours of play I tend to go into auto pilot rush down mode from it getting so repetitive.

    Against Vega: Mk DP has to be really late (frames 1-6) to anti air his wall dives and even then they can whiff. On top of that you have to do the slide method as they can switch sides screwing up inputs making you get SA or just the kick. It looks like you were doing them too early in most cases or his cross up screwed you up. If I'm not feeling confident to anti air it I will try to spiral arrow out early. The season 2.0 and 2.5 DP changes are a bitch but I've felt since season 2 DPs are fairly useless and end up costing you rounds more than saving you anyway. Basically if an opponent blocks one of them on your wake up it's GG as you're almost always going to be stunned. With so little reward to risk it's just not worth it anymore.

    @17:27 You shouldn't do dash hooligan after CA. If you want to hooligan you should do hp hooligan v-trigger divekick as it will hit meaty or you can do dash dash whatever to meaty.

    @21:39 Why do you do cr mp to meaty here? Maybe it's something I don't know but it seems unoptimal in every way. Besides cr lp, nothing frame traps Kolin after it here, and confirming cr lp to st hp isn't the easiest to do either. What's even more odd is you commit to cr mp xx cr mk which has a massive gap and if you do hit confirm the counter hit than st hp is the more optimal combo. Maybe it's just your habit but doing a st mp or st lk would be better in all situations that I can think of when you go for a meaty. .
    Post edited by SunTzu81 on
  • mobbdeepmobbdeep king of srk Joined: Posts: 381
    can u rushdown with cammy.
    Beast_Mode552 capcom fight id
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