Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

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  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 714
    Genistar wrote: »

    In the future when the lights to mediums are gone i'd go for the cr.lp, cr.lp arrow combos for the first one. Everything else will work though.

    You should do cr.mp cr.mp SA instead of using cr.lp cr.lp.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    American resets off bad inputs that get you Hooligan instead of drill are so much fun.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • LiangHuBBBLiangHuBBB Joined: Posts: 2,089
    Cammy gameplay by Poongko

    www.youtube.com/user/LiangHuBBB
  • MaxmanMaxman Joined: Posts: 1,801
    sssssshhhhh Liang what are you doing

    Cammy is gonna get hit hard by Capcom's nerf gun :P
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    None of those idiots getting wrecked were using the game's wakeup options though. If you don't quick rise of tech roll, Cammy can easily impose her mixup game.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    d3v wrote: »
    None of those idiots getting wrecked were using the game's wakeup options though. If you don't quick rise of tech roll, Cammy can easily impose her mixup game.

    Be honest,are you surprised? I talked with people,who say they don't know that these options exist. They ended up,waiting the whole time for their character to rise and still taught that throws are hard knockdowns.
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy
    Tekken: When's Jun? , Lili, Josie
    Guilty Gear: Ramlethal

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    Cipher wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    None of those idiots getting wrecked were using the game's wakeup options though. If you don't quick rise of tech roll, Cammy can easily impose her mixup game.

    Be honest,are you surprised? I talked with people,who say they don't know that these options exist. They ended up,waiting the whole time for their character to rise and still taught that throws are hard knockdowns.
    Dunno, a bunch of people I fought felt too aware of it and didn't try any sort of jump in or cross up shenanigans. In fact, I got more than a few by not doing anything on knockdown because they just went close and stood there.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 714
    Yeah u really should quick rise against cammy's if only 2 throw off her timing. The new thing I have seen mostly is people mashing grab on wake up which is a terrible idea
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 839
    Cammy is good, but she does NOT need a nerf stick. I'm not even planning on maining her but I'm salty about them taking away her lights. I mean, if medium links are pretty easy I guess it's not too bad, but we want these characters to be fun, diverse, and honestly, everyone should be called "scary" in some form or another. Look to VF5 capcom, everyone in that game can wreck you. And Akira is not head-and-shoulder above everyone at the top of the tier.
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    They see the pseudo and stand frozen as the car hit them.


    This plus surely only 15 min out of dozens of hours.

  • CanadianDstryrCanadianDstryr The Mundane Cinderella Joined: Posts: 2,071
    I am positively loving activate drill on reaction to fireballs. Everything about V trigger is fucking amazing.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    Rayartz wrote: »
    What makes me salty about seeing Poongko playing Cammy is in those highlights he wasn't playing the type of players I see everyday in ranked here in the states. I mean where was the wake up OMG hit frantic buttons crap.

    All I'm saying is, if I'm wrecking some dude he's going to wake up CA or do something crazy guaranteed!
    Happened since Vanilla, has already happened in SF5, lol.
    You'd think new people in a new game would TRY to learn it and not play like a 2 year old....

    This is not how you play Street Fighter:
    http://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpEOwZ1HZTFapHi/giphy.gif
    Asians don't mash DP.

    Also, probably didn't want to make him angry.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • driftlogicdriftlogic Joined: Posts: 634
    edited August 2015
    Anyone notice her st. Mp cr. HP doesn't combo anymore after the maintenance? I mean I never tried it in a match but I could get it consistently last night and now there seems to be more start up on cr. HP or maybe more pushback on st. Mp?

    St. Mp cr. Mp arrow still works though so Idk...
    "Fucking dumb lying bastards with small dicks on XBL is what ruins multi-player at times."
    Machineking1313
  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    Well when we get the build where cr.LP doesn't link into cr.MP anymore, we can just jump over to cr.LP s.LP s.LK instead, unless they took away the special cancelability on LK too. s.LK hits crouching characters, even small ones like Chun and Cammy, so it's pretty consistent. Just a little less damage and stun, and a tighter cancel window.

    Also, Cammy's b.HP is my favorite button in the whole damn game so far. Stuffs everything, even Bison's headstomp. I've only seen it lose to Cammy's j.HK because that normal shrinks her hurtbox. Otherwise it's a monster of a button.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    edited August 2015
    Or we can just stop doing extended combos from lights altogether.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    I mean yeah ultimately that would be awesome, but confirming off jabs and lights is the only way to stuff people who mash throw and jabs themselves on wake ups and on jump attacks without resorting to an Ume-shoryu and getting punished if they block.

    It seems like it would be an easy fix: just make jabs and lights unable to special cancel, literally leave it as a "get off me" tool, otherwise this shit's gonna stay like SF4.
    An entire generation of FGC people have been conditioned over the course of 7 years to mash jabs and throws in order to blow through Focus Attacks and spammed reversals because they were the safest strategies to use to counter both of those things while still confirming into damage and a KD. That kind of conditioning doesn't just go away until you forcibly remove the ability to do those things from the newest entry in the series.

    Jabs and throws are very powerful right now in SFV since meaty set ups are very tricky to time now with 3 kinds of recoveries available to the player (slow, quick, back). Removing the ability to special cancel jabs and lights encourages going for medium and heavy meaty attacks (crush counters, yay!) while ensuring that if they get blown up by wake up jabs, the person waking up can't convert damage off of it.

    It's literally just fighting fire with fire at this point, jab/light confirms are just gonna be a thing until Capcom makes a change. I hate it, but it's just what we have to deal with right now.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    edited August 2015
    Dunno what you're talking about. I barely use lights and I've been blowing up people who do overuse them.

    Also, chained jab hitconfirms have been in SF forever. The point is about not getting big damage off longer combos off them.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    Probably means I'm ass at meaties then. Not trying to turn this into a big dick competition, just sharing my thoughts about it. Exchange of information and ideas.

    You're right though, when I do hit my meaties correctly, confirming off of a s.MP into anything feels awesome. s.HK is also great when they're in the corner, it'll catch people jumping or CC any errant buttons they press since its start up is relatively fast. Faster than cr.HP anyway.

    If there's one interesting aspect to hit confirming any combo that I do enjoy, it's going directly into Hooligan if they block the whole thing. It's pretty gimmicky but if they're trained to be patient and block, it opens up opportunities to surprise grab them, or make them guess if you'll land in front or behind them with either the slide or dive kick. Feels like a decent way to maintain pressure while giving yourself mix up options. EX Razor Slice is even safe on block I think. The non-EX is definitely not though.

    And then you have glorious EX Cannon Strike resets. Can reset with either b.HP or s.LP, go for a cross under or a fake cross under depending on the timing of the reset, or cancel the b.HP/s.LP directly into Hooligan and completely mindfuck them on where you're going as they land. It's fantastic. If you TK the EX Cannon Strike, you actually won't travel far enough to travel through them, you'll stay on the same side. If you hit it from a higher angle, you'll pass through them normally and end up behind them.

    Just holding out with Cammy until R.Mika is playable...
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    edited August 2015
    You really just got to approach oki like you did in 3rd Strike where for the most part, you were trying to pressure while considering that they had tech rolls on top of their other wake up options. Heck, it was probably harder there since you had anti-crossup parry/block OS.

    EDIT: Here's one setup you can use against characters with DPs (e.g. Ryu) if they don't quick rise or tech roll. Activate V-Trigger, and then jump back as they get up, then do cannon strike. If they DP, then they eat the divekick, if they press anything else on the ground, they eat a full combo, if they block, then you can still set up mixups (dive kick, cr.mp into anything).
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 714
    No dick contests around here dude we r all here 2 help each other out

    If people r mashing jabs or throw on wake up against u counter it with f.HK, it beats both.

    I used 2 think the same way about lights but once u learn how 2 not rely on them and workout the system and ur combos u will see the game in a new light. Keep at it dude

  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    edited August 2015
    Oh I can combo without lights just fine, I just hate Nash and his jab happy bullshit. Like I said, I think I'm just messing up the meaty timings because when I get them right, I get on a roll. Other times, my f.HK will get jabbed right out of the start up. Not a joke. So I just do whatever blows Nash up because fuck that character. Hell sometimes I just skip the BS and do meaty crush counters.

    Thank you for your advice and encouragement though, it really is appreciated @d3v and @Sanada-kun. I'm having a ton of fun with this game so far and I can't wait for more. I'm just sad that James Chen doesn't think SFV Cammy is fun :(

    EDIT: Wait wat, V-Trig Cannon Strike beats DPs? Since when?
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    The thing with the light-medium links is that we all are used to do this because of SFIV. In SFIV was Lp or LK always the combostarter and now we have to adjust. But tbh. you get pretty fast used to it.

    Just a sidequestion,does Cammys Arrows hit low again or are my opponents not able to block?
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy
    Tekken: When's Jun? , Lili, Josie
    Guilty Gear: Ramlethal

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,796 mod
    Cipher wrote: »
    Just a sidequestion,does Cammys Arrows hit low again or are my opponents not able to block?
    No, it still hits high. It says so in training mode.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    I'm still mad at that... If it's not going to hit low, it should at least be safer on block, if even only the light version.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 354
    The light is that unsafe ? I mean even a well placed max range drill is punishable easily ?
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    Sharnt wrote: »
    The light is that unsafe ? I mean even a well placed max range drill is punishable easily ?

    You can space them so they're safe, but you don't get much in the way of offensive pressure. If you drop a link with Cammy, that's a free punish on your blocked SA. Characters like Charlie, Bison, Chun, etc can pressure with their non-fireball specials on block. Cammy could never do that. She always has to rely on frame traps and throws, and she could never afford to drop a combo. I guess you could call it fair in SF4, but this is a different game where I don't feel those tools are as strong. Outside of V-Trigger, all she has to work with is Hooligan, which is easily beaten. Her Crush Counter doesn't get you much aside from an easier confirm into super or a SA. Charlie can dash up and combo off of his.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    Sharnt wrote: »
    The light is that unsafe ? I mean even a well placed max range drill is punishable easily ?

    You can space them so they're safe, but you don't get much in the way of offensive pressure. If you drop a link with Cammy, that's a free punish on your blocked SA. Characters like Charlie, Bison, Chun, etc can pressure with their non-fireball specials on block. Cammy could never do that. She always has to rely on frame traps and throws, and she could never afford to drop a combo. I guess you could call it fair in SF4, but this is a different game where I don't feel those tools are as strong. Outside of V-Trigger, all she has to work with is Hooligan, which is easily beaten. Her Crush Counter doesn't get you much aside from an easier confirm into super or a SA. Charlie can dash up and combo off of his.

    Chun and Ryu have no safe specials unless properly spaced or meter is spent
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Sharnt wrote: »
    The light is that unsafe ? I mean even a well placed max range drill is punishable easily ?

    You can space them so they're safe, but you don't get much in the way of offensive pressure. If you drop a link with Cammy, that's a free punish on your blocked SA. Characters like Charlie, Bison, Chun, etc can pressure with their non-fireball specials on block. Cammy could never do that. She always has to rely on frame traps and throws, and she could never afford to drop a combo. I guess you could call it fair in SF4, but this is a different game where I don't feel those tools are as strong. Outside of V-Trigger, all she has to work with is Hooligan, which is easily beaten. Her Crush Counter doesn't get you much aside from an easier confirm into super or a SA. Charlie can dash up and combo off of his.

    Chun and Ryu have no safe specials unless properly spaced or meter is spent

    None of Chun's legs are safe on block? Ryu has cr.MK xx Hado. If Cammy could poke with max range cr.MK xx MK SA and be safe, I'd be happy.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • JokeeBoiJokeeBoi Literally nobody. Joined: Posts: 1,595
    I dunno I've used cr.MK xx Hado a lot and been punished a few times, even at max range.
    The only thing I really know is that I don't know a damn thing.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    edited August 2015

    None of Chun's legs are safe on block? Ryu has cr.MK xx Hado. If Cammy could poke with max range cr.MK xx MK SA and be safe, I'd be happy.


    Not that I know, I punished L,M,H(you can count the hits) legs on block without problems. Cr.mp xx Arrow punishs well. But I think Ex is safe or at least slightly -, since I was able to counterhit most chuns after this.
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy
    Tekken: When's Jun? , Lili, Josie
    Guilty Gear: Ramlethal

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • larcatlarcat Joined: Posts: 218
    It also seems like at certain ranges (really deep I think?) People can slip something in between the c.mk and the fireball.

    Might just be me being a newbie tho.
    JokeeBoi wrote: »
    I dunno I've used cr.MK xx Hado a lot and been punished a few times, even at max range.

  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 714
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much

    It wouldn't even do a lot of chip or put her in the position to pressure with it like Bison and his Scissor Kick. All I want is less punishment for not having perfect execution.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much

    It wouldn't even do a lot of chip or put her in the position to pressure with it like Bison and his Scissor Kick. All I want is less punishment for not having perfect execution.

    Have you tried noy dropping combos? There's a three frame buffer here, out doesn't even take an hour of practice. If I drop my Bison combo into MK SK (the good one) you bet your ass I'm getting punished. And SA gets you a hell of a lot more ground than SK
  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    Yeah I agree, safe Spiral Arrows would be too much. I'm glad it's no longer a full screen sweep, too many people got away with that shit in SF4 as a cheap way to get in. If you can't figure out how to approach the opponent without doing a full screen Spiral Arrow, then you deserve to get punished, plain and simple.
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much

    It wouldn't even do a lot of chip or put her in the position to pressure with it like Bison and his Scissor Kick. All I want is less punishment for not having perfect execution.

    Have you tried noy dropping combos? There's a three frame buffer here, out doesn't even take an hour of practice. If I drop my Bison combo into MK SK (the good one) you bet your ass I'm getting punished. And SA gets you a hell of a lot more ground than SK

    Who gets punished harder than Cammy for dropping a combo(SF4 or SF5)? Who's easier to punish between Bison and Cammy? Bison has a shitload of tools, great normals, and safe pressure. He has safe versions of SK, Cammy does not have safe SA's. And I'm talking about LK SA not MK/HK(those need to stay punishable). It doesn't even hit low anymore.... Making the weakest version safe on block isn't too much to ask at all, all things considered.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much

    It wouldn't even do a lot of chip or put her in the position to pressure with it like Bison and his Scissor Kick. All I want is less punishment for not having perfect execution.

    Have you tried noy dropping combos? There's a three frame buffer here, out doesn't even take an hour of practice. If I drop my Bison combo into MK SK (the good one) you bet your ass I'm getting punished. And SA gets you a hell of a lot more ground than SK

    Who gets punished harder than Cammy for dropping a combo(SF4 or SF5)? Who's easier to punish between Bison and Cammy? Bison has a shitload of tools, great normals, and safe pressure. He has safe versions of SK, Cammy does not have safe SA's. And I'm talking about LK SA not MK/HK(those need to stay punishable). It doesn't even hit low anymore.... Making the weakest version safe on block isn't too much to ask at all, all things considered.

    Yes it is, because Cammy would be able to basically ignore the footsie game completely. One SA and you're in. Think they'll whiff a move? SA and you're in.

    There's a reason Bison has charge instead of motion for SK, why his walkspeed is garbage in this game, why he has no reversal.

    The fact that you're getting punished is because you're screwing up combos. Stop dropping them and you'll stop getting punished
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    edited September 2015
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Cammy's has never had any safe specials why would she get one now. Especially now that her normals r considerably better. Whiff punishing with cr.mk, SA has never been easier and u can even super on reaction from full screen. Giving her a safe SA is a bit much

    It wouldn't even do a lot of chip or put her in the position to pressure with it like Bison and his Scissor Kick. All I want is less punishment for not having perfect execution.

    Have you tried noy dropping combos? There's a three frame buffer here, out doesn't even take an hour of practice. If I drop my Bison combo into MK SK (the good one) you bet your ass I'm getting punished. And SA gets you a hell of a lot more ground than SK

    Who gets punished harder than Cammy for dropping a combo(SF4 or SF5)? Who's easier to punish between Bison and Cammy? Bison has a shitload of tools, great normals, and safe pressure. He has safe versions of SK, Cammy does not have safe SA's. And I'm talking about LK SA not MK/HK(those need to stay punishable). It doesn't even hit low anymore.... Making the weakest version safe on block isn't too much to ask at all, all things considered.

    Yes it is, because Cammy would be able to basically ignore the footsie game completely. One SA and you're in. Think they'll whiff a move? SA and you're in.

    There's a reason Bison has charge instead of motion for SK, why his walkspeed is garbage in this game, why he has no reversal.

    The fact that you're getting punished is because you're screwing up combos. Stop dropping them and you'll stop getting punished

    LK SA goes nowhere and no one uses it over the other versions. Being safe on block wouldn't hurt at all considering the best damage/oki comes from the other versions. Using it in a combo would be the worst, but safest option in case you can't afford to miss the link. You wouldn't even need to worry about the knockdown too much because of the various wake up options, short distance, and lack of non-CA chip kills. It'd just be given some utility where it currently has none. It could still be whiff punished or countered by most cr.MK/HK. Hell, max range cr.MK xx LK SA could whiff on most characters for all I care. She's not using it to ignore the footsie game or get in for free. I'm not even asking for it to be super advantageous, just neutral at best. How is that too much?

    I think you're overestimating the impact of such a small change.

    Oh, and for the record, I don't drop my combos a lot in this game so that's not the issue. I just don't think she should be crucified for not having 100% execution. No other character has that problem.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    Making LK Spiral Arrow safe on block, regardless of the lost damage or positioning, would instantly make it the only version of Spiral Arrow worth using. There's no incentive to actually learn your links after that point because you'll have the crutch of a safe special to cancel into. Hell you would be opening up an entire Pandora's Box of gimmicks, gimmicks that would only cheapen the character rather than improve the experience.

    Learn your combos. Every normal in this game has a 3-frame buffer to link into another normal. You don't even need to plink, in fact plinking doesn't work and actively fucks up your links if anything. Double tap or just learn the incredibly easy timing.
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    edited September 2015
    Making LK Spiral Arrow safe on block, regardless of the lost damage or positioning, would instantly make it the only version of Spiral Arrow worth using.

    That's not true at all. Changing how it functions on block does not change how it functions on hit. If you think LK SA being safe on block would suddenly make it the only version worth using, it should already be. Right now, it isn't used at all because you get no benefit on hit vs MK and HK. Optimized combos go for the moves that offer the best damage/positioning on hit, so they would always include the other versions. Are LP MGB(Dudley), LK Axe Kick(E. Ryu), LK SK(Bison), etc the only versions worth using? No.
    There's no incentive to actually learn your links after that point because you'll have the crutch of a safe special to cancel into. Hell you would be opening up an entire Pandora's Box of gimmicks, gimmicks that would only cheapen the character rather than improve the experience.

    Tell that to all the other characters with safe specials to cancel into where that is proven untrue.
    Learn your combos. Every normal in this game has a 3-frame buffer to link into another normal. You don't even need to plink, in fact plinking doesn't work and actively fucks up your links if anything. Double tap or just learn the incredibly easy timing.

    If that was the problem, I'd be asking for safe MK, HK, or EX.... I'm not. I just don't think it's fair that any version of her SA is punished on block as hard as a DP. It has no invincibility, doesn't go through fireballs without meter, doesn't low-profile..... Ryu's tatsu crushes lows, corner carries, goes through projectiles, and gets him pretty far across the screen. The hardest you can usually punish that is with a cr.HP or DP.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    Ryu and Chun most certainly get punished for dropping combos; you can go for EX Legs or EX fireball but everything else gets punished. If Bison goes for a MK SK combo and drops it he gets punished. EX SA pierces as does VT which can make it safe.

    I think there's a valid argument that LK SA needs a purpose, but making it safe let's you just freely do all sorts of nasty shit with poking out of cr.mk.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670
    @Phantom Angel
    Bisons scissor might be not punishable,but for some weird reasons I was able to counterhit the most Bisons with cr.mp/mk after their scissors. Either are Cammys normals faster than Bisons or the Scissor is - on block.
    Feels like his CVS2 scissor which was unsafe,but had like no blockstun.
    Birdies Headbutts are also punishable, try H Cannon Spike,works good for me. Either they're punishable or my opponents never block after them.
    For Charlie,just anti-air him every time he jumps and remember that his EX Booms are unsafe,like realy unsafe,L and M should be punishable with V-Skill / Ca on reaction and H has so much startup that I just divekick him the moment he starts the animation.
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy
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  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,140
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Ryu and Chun most certainly get punished for dropping combos; you can go for EX Legs or EX fireball but everything else gets punished. If Bison goes for a MK SK combo and drops it he gets punished. EX SA pierces as does VT which can make it safe.

    I think there's a valid argument that LK SA needs a purpose, but making it safe let's you just freely do all sorts of nasty shit with poking out of cr.mk.

    Fair enough.
    Cipher wrote: »
    @Phantom Angel
    Bisons scissor might be not punishable,but for some weird reasons I was able to counterhit the most Bisons with cr.mp/mk after their scissors. Either are Cammys normals faster than Bisons or the Scissor is - on block.
    Feels like his CVS2 scissor which was unsafe,but had like no blockstun.
    Birdies Headbutts are also punishable, try H Cannon Spike,works good for me. Either they're punishable or my opponents never block after them.
    For Charlie,just anti-air him every time he jumps and remember that his EX Booms are unsafe,like realy unsafe,L and M should be punishable with V-Skill / Ca on reaction and H has so much startup that I just divekick him the moment he starts the animation.

    Yea, he can block after most of them, which is my point. The ones that are really unsafe aren't getting 500 dmg punishes like Cammy's SA.

    I'm not too sure about what safe/unsafe in this game aside from what we've been talking about. Gonna have to look at the frame data, because the things that happen mid-fight confuse the hell out of me lol.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

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  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,790
    Oh so I'm not the only one hating the Bison matchup? Chun-Li wrecks him and Ryu is pretty even, but Cammy seems to have issues.
    brain dead Cr. Mp Scissor Cr. Mp mash firewall, rinse repeat.

    At some ranges if Scissors hit Cammy deep Cr. Mp xx SA will punish but otherwise he's safe.

    Serious question though what is the go to Stun combo you guys are doing?
    Without VT I'm doing

    (meterless) J. HP, F+Hk, B+Hp xx DP or SA for screen positioning
    (1 bar) J. Hp, F+Hk, B+Hp >Hk xx EX DP
    (CA with VTrigger) J. HP, B+Hp VTC Cr. Mp xx SA - Mk CA

    Whiffed DP's or reversal punishes I'm primarly sticking to St. Mp, St. Hp xx Hk SA for corner carry but Dp of course nets more damage/stun.

    anything better I should be doing that I'm unaware of?

    I'm having trouble with landing a Hp Hoolian Spike Cr. Mp, St. Mp xx consistently too
    So to offset if I drop the combo I'll do Cr. Mp, St. MP, St. Mk as a decent block string and a good way to catch people hitting buttons.
    Cr. Hp after this string has landed me a few Crush Counter too.

    I track my wins/loses so I'm sitting at 76% right now with Cammy. Starting to feel pretty confident with her.


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  • BigMcLargeHugeBigMcLargeHuge Joined: Posts: 196
    My go-to meterless stun combo is j.HP s.MP s.HP xx HK DP

    My optimal stun combo is f.HK b.HP>HK TC xx CA. Does 506 damage, which is actually more damage than any VTC combo into CA because you don't get the scaling off of the Spiral Arrow. If you stun them and have a full stick of butter, this combo will kill anyone with standard health outright. If it doesn't kill them, then you still have V-Trig to finish them off. More damage, saves VT, win/win.

    Also you're losing damage by following up your VTC with cr.MP. You can connect s.HP into any special cancel after the VTC instead.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,670

    Yea, he can block after most of them, which is my point. The ones that are really unsafe aren't getting 500 dmg punishes like Cammy's SA.

    I'm not too sure about what safe/unsafe in this game aside from what we've been talking about. Gonna have to look at the frame data, because the things that happen mid-fight confuse the hell out of me lol.

    You miss the point - moves mean you can interrupt his pressure, Bison has nothing invincible appart from his CA. You can remove all his momentum and start to pressure by yourself and then just keep it simple. Frametrap/throw mixups, cross him up to make him lose charge and so on,you also have better pokes this time,you can pretty much outfootsies him and st.mk can stuff scissors too. I don't see a big probleme over here or maybe my opponents just suck.
    Whiffpunishing with cr.mk was never so easy,feels realy good winning footsies battles against Bison,Chun and Ryu.

    btw. if you counterhit Bison with cr.mp after his scissors,you can go for st.mp/hp(depending on the range, st.mp can be linked into cr.mk) or cr.mk xx DP/Arrow.

    I realy don't see a point why they should make Cammys Arrows safe, her footsies is better than ever,not as crazy as CVS2, and you should be able to outfootsies your opponents. But I should stop talking about Cammys footsies,before Capcom arrives and nerfs her.
    SteamId, leave a comment before adding!
    Street Fighter: Cammy
    Tekken: When's Jun? , Lili, Josie
    Guilty Gear: Ramlethal

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • driftlogicdriftlogic Joined: Posts: 634
    edited September 2015
    I just got punished off a blocked max range low forward against a Ryu...that sucked...also really struggling against Nash for some fuckass reason...
    Post edited by driftlogic on
    "Fucking dumb lying bastards with small dicks on XBL is what ruins multi-player at times."
    Machineking1313
  • driftlogicdriftlogic Joined: Posts: 634
    Rayartz wrote: »
    Oh so I'm not the only one hating the Bison matchup? Chun-Li wrecks him and Ryu is pretty even, but Cammy seems to have issues.
    brain dead Cr. Mp Scissor Cr. Mp mash firewall, rinse repeat.

    At some ranges if Scissors hit Cammy deep Cr. Mp xx SA will punish but otherwise he's safe.

    Serious question though what is the go to Stun combo you guys are doing?
    Without VT I'm doing

    (meterless) J. HP, F+Hk, B+Hp xx DP or SA for screen positioning
    (1 bar) J. Hp, F+Hk, B+Hp >Hk xx EX DP
    (CA with VTrigger) J. HP, B+Hp VTC Cr. Mp xx SA - Mk CA

    Whiffed DP's or reversal punishes I'm primarly sticking to St. Mp, St. Hp xx Hk SA for corner carry but Dp of course nets more damage/stun.

    anything better I should be doing that I'm unaware of?

    I'm having trouble with landing a Hp Hoolian Spike Cr. Mp, St. Mp xx consistently too
    So to offset if I drop the combo I'll do Cr. Mp, St. MP, St. Mk as a decent block string and a good way to catch people hitting buttons.
    Cr. Hp after this string has landed me a few Crush Counter too.

    I track my wins/loses so I'm sitting at 76% right now with Cammy. Starting to feel pretty confident with her.


    No you're not, fuck that matchup right now. I really don't feel like I have any options against a Bipson that doesn't jump...his pressure is fucking real...
    "Fucking dumb lying bastards with small dicks on XBL is what ruins multi-player at times."
    Machineking1313
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    driftlogic wrote: »
    Rayartz wrote: »
    Oh so I'm not the only one hating the Bison matchup? Chun-Li wrecks him and Ryu is pretty even, but Cammy seems to have issues.
    brain dead Cr. Mp Scissor Cr. Mp mash firewall, rinse repeat.

    At some ranges if Scissors hit Cammy deep Cr. Mp xx SA will punish but otherwise he's safe.

    Serious question though what is the go to Stun combo you guys are doing?
    Without VT I'm doing

    (meterless) J. HP, F+Hk, B+Hp xx DP or SA for screen positioning
    (1 bar) J. Hp, F+Hk, B+Hp >Hk xx EX DP
    (CA with VTrigger) J. HP, B+Hp VTC Cr. Mp xx SA - Mk CA

    Whiffed DP's or reversal punishes I'm primarly sticking to St. Mp, St. Hp xx Hk SA for corner carry but Dp of course nets more damage/stun.

    anything better I should be doing that I'm unaware of?

    I'm having trouble with landing a Hp Hoolian Spike Cr. Mp, St. Mp xx consistently too
    So to offset if I drop the combo I'll do Cr. Mp, St. MP, St. Mk as a decent block string and a good way to catch people hitting buttons.
    Cr. Hp after this string has landed me a few Crush Counter too.

    I track my wins/loses so I'm sitting at 76% right now with Cammy. Starting to feel pretty confident with her.


    No you're not, fuck that matchup right now. I really don't feel like I have any options against a Bipson that doesn't jump...his pressure is fucking real...

    Bison pressure is fake as hell in this game. The only times you really need to fear a throw are after a hit MK scissor kick and if he's teleporting around in V Trigger. Otherwise just bully the hell out of him with jabs after blocked SK (you can punish MK ones) and using St.mk and cr.hp in neutral. Just don't jump at him and run jab into frametrap/throw once you get in.
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