BlazBlue Central Fiction

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  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate... Joined: Posts: 12,143
    We'll agree to disagree.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    edited June 2016
    Whatever. Regardless of where he's ranked, Tager will always have like a 7-3 advantage over Noel anyway, so it won't make much difference to me, lol.
  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate... Joined: Posts: 12,143
    One of the most brutal matchups in FG history yo (for Noel).

    I main both of them, so at least I have a pretty good handle on the matchup. :rofl:
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I'm not saying he's not good, but in theory, tier lists are based on matchups, and Tager still has most of his traditional problems.

    I never really figured out why he's considered such a bad matchup for Noel though. What's so special about her vs any other character who has to play up close? It seems to me that stuff like 2D being airborne would mean she actually has options against him that a lot of other characters kinda don't. Does she just have terrible jump cancellable normals or something? Her 5B seems perfectly fine for this? Sure, she's not Jin (F*** 5C jump cancel on block, WTF.) but no one goes around saying "Tager is a terrible matchup for Makoto/Tsubaki/Bullet/whatever other random character that has to actually fight with normal tools."
  • HadokingHadoking The ReoGeo Successor Joined: Posts: 1,256
    Most of her specials have semi-limited range and consists of a short burst of bullets. sledge hammer can counter all of that and get a free counter hit.
    Everyone can have an opinion, only yours doesn't matter.
  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN Fighting Game Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 1,111
    Players actually consider Rachel Alucard S-tier in BBCF now? If I can recall, she has been hit with nerfs during this iteration to the point that players often made fun of her.

    az9m6w.jpg

    Times have changed.
    - Blog: https://actnblog.wordpress.com/
    - Twitter: https://twitter.com/actnyuri

    ===============

    "Another victory, yes, but... there is always another battle." — Arbiter
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    edited June 2016
    Airk wrote: »
    I'm not saying he's not good, but in theory, tier lists are based on matchups, and Tager still has most of his traditional problems.

    I never really figured out why he's considered such a bad matchup for Noel though. What's so special about her vs any other character who has to play up close? It seems to me that stuff like 2D being airborne would mean she actually has options against him that a lot of other characters kinda don't. Does she just have terrible jump cancellable normals or something? Her 5B seems perfectly fine for this? Sure, she's not Jin (F*** 5C jump cancel on block, WTF.) but no one goes around saying "Tager is a terrible matchup for Makoto/Tsubaki/Bullet/whatever other random character that has to actually fight with normal tools."

    A lot of the things Tager has have armor and projectile invincibility. The issue for Noel is that a LOT (and I mean a LOT) of her moves have projectile properties, not just say, Optic Barrel, Silencer, and her Distortion Drives (although the first hit of Fenrir ISN'T projectile property and can't be thrown). Almost all of her Drives count as projectiles (there might be like 1 or possibly 2 that don't), and a lot of her C normals count as projectile too. As a result, you're stuck using A and B normals a lot and have a number of your options cut off. Also, A starters, and a lot of B starters (minus 6B in the corner) lack the same damage that C and D starters do. Hell, not to mention that in a lot of cases her combos are longer and do less damage than most characters (compare what say, Ragna, Jin, or Azrael can get off of similarly long combos) in the first place.

    Since Tager is a character relying a bunch on reads, knowing that a number of your options are instantly relegated to being used in situations where "I know he's expecting something else", makes it easier for him to get said reads. Plus, Noel doesn't have the best wakeup options, or things in the way of DPs to begin with, so taking away from things she does have makes it suck. And well, if you try to mix up and go for 6B in the corner (or much at all really) you'll just get Tager Buster'd. You can try and just grab into combos a lot, but well...going for a lot of grabs on Tager is always dangerous. I think the only time it wasn't THAT bad of a matchup was in BBCS2, and that's because Noel was in the Top 3 characters in that game. I can't pretend to speak for every Noel player, but I can only really relate what I've experienced in my 7 years of being a Noel main since Calamity Trigger, lol.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I guess not being able to apply drive pressure because of concerns about getting Sledged in the face are legit, but so many Noel players tell me that this isn't how the character is supposed to be played against anyone because it's "not safe" so whatever? And I don't really see why her C normals being projectile matters. It's not like Tager is gonna randomly sledge during a standard blockstring or something. And anyway, most characters who aren't Jin can't really use C normals in pressure against Tager either because they need to be able to jump cancel stuff to keep safe; Ragna can kinda get away with it if he's careful because his 5C has silly range, but in general? No one gets to run long blockstrings on Tager. Is Noel particularly dependent on these?

    Similarly, I don't see what the deal is with 6B - this is the same issue that every character with a 'standard overhead' faces. Noel's isn't any more predictable or easy to buster on reaction than anyone else's. The second thing you learn when trying to play Tsubaki against Tager is '6A is usually a bad idea. You don't really get to run mixup on Tager'. The first thing you learn is "You don't get to do long blockstrings."

    Losing 4D/2D mixup on wakeup is a problem though. This was annoying for Tsubaki when her A-DP was a projectile too, but Fenrir still works, so it's not like you have no options.

    Most of this sounds like a lot of Noel players who haven't tried playing other characters and think their problems with Tager are unique when honestly, it doesn't seem like they are very different from what everyone in her general archetype faces when dealing with Tager. Not being able to do long blockstrings and having overheads be risky is just facts of life when playing Tager, not Noel vs Tager. I'm not feeling the 7-3 matchup here. Not unless Noel is actually just worse than Tager overall, anyway.
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    It should be worth noting that 2D and 4D usually aren't what you should be overly trying for on wakeup anyway. I mean seriously, you try that shit on a character that can punish it, and you're just asking to lose a bunch of health. It's the same way that back in the day, newbie Noel players would make the mistake of trying to use j.4D to get out of the corner and...well, let's just say, 9 times out of 10, don't do that.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    edited June 2016
    LivewireX wrote: »
    It should be worth noting that 2D and 4D usually aren't what you should be overly trying for on wakeup anyway. I mean seriously, you try that shit on a character that can punish it, and you're just asking to lose a bunch of health. It's the same way that back in the day, newbie Noel players would make the mistake of trying to use j.4D to get out of the corner and...well, let's just say, 9 times out of 10, don't do that.

    I'll file that in the same category as "You shouldn't use Noel's drive for pressure." namely "This doesn't match my perceptions, but I'll take your word for it." but it begs the question then - if you're not supposed to use your drive for pressure, and you're not supposed to use your drive on wakeup, what, exactly, about these moves being projectile matters a damn bit in the Tager matchup? What we've got here, as far as I can tell is:
    • Noel's C attacks are projectiles, but most characters don't/can't/shouldn't use their C attacks against Tager except as punishes, and anyway, Tager isn't gonna randomly sledge you out of a non-drive blockstring
    • Many of Noel's drives are projectiles, but you're not supposed to use them in pressure anyway, so the fact that Tager can sledge them shouldn't matter
    • Noel loses wakeup options you say she shouldn't be using anyway
    • Noel's overhead can be bustered, but this is true for everyone except maybe Jin

    So...what's the difference between how Noel has to approach Tager vs anyone else, since she's "not supposed" to use the stuff that's unique to her in the sorts of situations where Tager can punish it anyway?
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Noel's 5C is one of her better pokes (another being 5B), her 2C is often good, but not here and her Drives can be used for high/low mixup because 6D/d.6D and d.6B essentially have the same startup, to give an example. And as for what's so different about other characters that fight Tager, there's the obvious example of the Nu or Mu matchup, but you'd probably have to ask someone who uses a character that has a good matchup against Tager, that wins in different ways than the pure zoning cases do.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    If Tager is sledging you out of 5C in neutral, you are doing something dumb though. o.o

    And I could've sworn that like when I was complaining about how obnoxious Noel's drive mixup was in the gear grinding thread, you yourself were telling me "No way man, it sucks, it's not safe at all!" Let's see...

    Yeah, here we go:
    LivewireX wrote: »
    Most of her Drive moves are insanely easy to see coming and are ridiculously punishable on block and will leave you wide open to eat like, 4k as a result of your spammy carelessness. When spammy Noels win, it's because people can't/don't block, are intimidates and don't really know how to go about punishing things.

    So how is the Tager matchup different? Obviously characters who play completely differently from Noel will have different experiences with the matchup, but Makoto/Bullet/Tsubaki/Ragna/Jin/Plat/Terumi all basically have the same sorts of issues with him - Ragna and Jin have a few mitigating tricks, but otherwise, I feel like the same problems apply to all short range characters in this matchup. And no one goes around saying Tager is 8/2 or 7/3 matchup for the rest of those characters.
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I feel like you might be willingly trying to overlook things here...
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I'm not deliberately "overlooking" things, but people do have a long habit of not really explaining how you are "supposed" to use Noel's drive. I keep getting told that it's not for pressure/mixup/wakeup, but when I watch matches, that's what people use it for.

    If her drive IS for pressure, then yes, Tager complicates it somewhat (though But people keep indicating that that's not a good idea against anyone, so... ?

    Let's take a step back. Pretend I'm learning Noel and while I know what her moves DO, I don't know what they're for. What's Noel's gameplan in an ordinary matchup like Ragna or Jin?
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    BlazBlue Central Fiction Promo Video

  • KonomaruKonomaru Joined: Posts: 51
    Any news on the Eu release of Cf?
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Konomaru wrote: »
    Any news on the Eu release of Cf?

    Yes. :P
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    Es Trailer

  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    Aksys Game announced that BBCF will be released in USA at Winter 2016 Fall 2016!

    I know you all have seen this video, but it's uploaded by Aksys Games on their YouTube Channel and the video description confirmed it.

  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate... Joined: Posts: 12,143
    Do we have an actual date?
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • LarsMastersLarsMasters Joined: Posts: 107
    Ladies and Gentlemen, Mai Natsume is here

    http://www.famitsu.com/news/201608/16113161.html
    I'm just a gamer/troper whose just passing by. The answers lies in the Heart of Battle.
  • AceKillahAceKillah behind the scenes Joined: Posts: 15,811
    slightly interested in bb again.

    which i havent been since cf got announced lol
    "Smash is the Walmart of fighting games. There's nothing inherently wrong with Walmart, but damned if I don't want 95% of its clientele to burn to death." -Vynce
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Ladies and Gentlemen, Mai Natsume is here

    http://www.famitsu.com/news/201608/16113161.html

    yay.

    z.z
  • HadoukieHadoukie K-UGER! Joined: Posts: 426
    I approve of this, as do my tightening pants
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Hadoukie wrote: »
    I approve of this, as do my tightening pants

    You know Mai pretty much is only a girl because "magic changed her from a guy to a girl", right?
  • HadokingHadoking The ReoGeo Successor Joined: Posts: 1,256
    LivewireX wrote: »
    Hadoukie wrote: »
    I approve of this, as do my tightening pants

    You know Mai pretty much is only a girl because "magic changed her from a guy to a girl", right?

    Doesn't mean that's she not still a girl.


    Everyone can have an opinion, only yours doesn't matter.
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,858
    edited August 2016
    Trans post op by magic.
  • HadoukieHadoukie K-UGER! Joined: Posts: 426
    She/he becomes a full girl by the end of the manga, so it's all good
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    Es Gameplay Video. Though it's an off-screen camera quality.

  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    Aksys Games says BBCF may not have English Dub voice acting.

  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I wish there was a dislike option here because while I'm glad you shared that...I certainly can't like it or agree with the idea, lol.
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Working on it.......... Joined: Posts: 20,798 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/08/24/blazblue-central-fiction-limited-edition-announced-dlc-details/

    At the comment section Danny Miscevich, Sales and Marketing Manager for Aksys Games, commented on the lack on English dub saying:
    Yeah no dub is disappointing, but would you have rather waited 6-8 months for a US release w/ a dub?

    Personally............I would've waited.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
    -Traitor Aizen Souske
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Yeah, I know. For me personally? I would've bought the import for PS3 in November, and then bought the NA version with dub for PS4 in April. I know I'm not everyone and people would be going "what the hell, buying it twice?" but...that's just me speaking.
  • DeeQueDeeQue Can't Kill Kawaii Joined: Posts: 278
    edited August 2016
    Ladies and Gentlemen, Mai Natsume is here

    http://www.famitsu.com/news/201608/16113161.html

    Did this really surprise anyone? People were predicting this months ago when the first batch of new characters were revealed.
    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/08/24/blazblue-central-fiction-limited-edition-announced-dlc-details/

    At the comment section Danny Miscevich, Sales and Marketing Manager for Aksys Games, commented on the lack on English dub saying:
    Yeah no dub is disappointing, but would you have rather waited 6-8 months for a US release w/ a dub?

    Personally............I would've waited.

    I would have waited too... Which is why I'm going to wait and hope the dub shows up in Blazblue: Central Fiction EXTEND!
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    Honestly, I never liked English dub in BlazBlue. No English Dub in BBCF is good news to me.
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 490
    edited August 2016
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Working on it.......... Joined: Posts: 20,798 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Honestly, I never liked English dub in BlazBlue. No English Dub in BBCF is good news to me.

    Good for you...........however I liked that there was an option to have English or Japanese audio.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
    -Traitor Aizen Souske
  • AKZuMAKZuM "Frustration Filter" Joined: Posts: 149
    Well, I guess there's no storymode for me this time. Arksys is crazy as hell if they think I'm gonna sit through 40+ hours worth of cut-scenes without english, I had enough of that with Revelator. I'm probably just going to read the synopsis online or something.
  • verdant0verdant0 Joined: Posts: 49
    No english VA is not a deal breaker for me but it disappoints me. While in the main story they acted good but the gag reels made me fell in love with them. I also played Xblaze so I was curious who was going to do the english dub for Es but oh well.
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Working on it.......... Joined: Posts: 20,798 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah............I enjoyed the story mode and gag reels in English.
    Since there is no English audio I canceled my pre-order...............I'll probably get the game when it's discounted.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
    -Traitor Aizen Souske
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Huh. What's the big deal? Read the text while you play story mode, yo.
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Airk wrote: »
    Huh. What's the big deal? Read the text while you play story mode, yo.

    Doing something text heavy with voices that aren't...how do I put it, text appropriate is just odd overall. Like, it's different in a game say...like 999 where there's no voice acting at all, but say, for its sequel, VLR, when so much of the gameplay IS the interaction, the idea of not having matching voices is weird.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    LivewireX wrote: »
    Doing something text heavy with voices that aren't...how do I put it, text appropriate is just odd overall. Like, it's different in a game say...like 999 where there's no voice acting at all, but say, for its sequel, VLR, when so much of the gameplay IS the interaction, the idea of not having matching voices is weird.

    Dunno, it's as natural as breathing to me. I've been watching various sorts of subtitled movies for decades and I can never once remember thinking "geez, this is weird, why aren't they speaking English?" or something?
  • DeeQueDeeQue Can't Kill Kawaii Joined: Posts: 278
    I will say in the context of a visual novel, it's not as "important" to have English voice acting. The main reason I prefer dubs is because my eyes aren't stuck on the text at the bottom of the screen. In a movie I like to see what's going on. This SHOULD be a non-issue with visual novel style storytelling. The only thing your missing out on is some of the scenes where audio cues add to the story. Like in P4 arena where Labrys's accent plays a roll in revealing her origins. The accent is harder for a non-Japanese speaker to pick up, and isn't pointed out until much later in the story. Outside story mode, Blazeblue always took character interactions during the fights seriously. Hearing Ragna swear at Terumi or demand Hakumen were really cool touches that non-Japanese speakers will miss out on.
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Working on it.......... Joined: Posts: 20,798 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    https://www.facebook.com/patrickseitzfanpage/posts/10154563285294875

    Patrick Seitz speaks about the lack of English dub in BB:CF............and I agree with him that the BB English voice cast was one of the best.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
    -Traitor Aizen Souske
  • verdant0verdant0 Joined: Posts: 49
    edited August 2016
    Wow that post was awesome. I smiled when he made a note of how BB's story can be quite confusing. Just like others have said, reading doesn't bother me but having something and taking it away just sucks for those who enjoyed it.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I confess, I am going to miss the English BATTLE voices. Because there are no subtitles for those, and a lot of the dialogue there is clever, funny, or both.

    Also, Angry English Tsubaki in CP is way better than "sounds pretty much the same as before" Japanese CP Tsubaki.
  • CelciusCelcius The golden one Joined: Posts: 945
    There's a petition to add English dubs to BBCF: https://www.change.org/p/aksys-games-support-the-dub-for-blazblue-central-fiction
    Already over 500 signatures and it just started yesterday afternoon.
    Victory means nothing, the fight means everything!
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Working on it.......... Joined: Posts: 20,798 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    .......signed.
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
    -Traitor Aizen Souske
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