UMvC3 was handled atrociously this year

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  • PhendranaDriftsPhendranaDrifts Joined: Posts: 126
    Make it clear any nationalism, trolling, etc will get you banned and/or you title revoked. They didn't want to hold up their precious stream and still had the camera on him the whole time.

    Last year there was lots of crying from the players, especially D1 (?), maybe they wanted to get away from that?

    On another side, Ray Ray is a prick. Nice sportsmanship.

    And WTF was Gamerbee's woman doing onstage bawling like that? Who allowed that?
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 915
    Pertho wrote: »
    You're worried largely about a lot of people who don't play the game in the first place.

    Since you didn't answer it last time I'll ask it again - Who gets to decide who doesn't give a fuck and who does?
    You make an awful lot of assumptions about an awful lot of people.
    What about people who live in other countries but follow and play Marvel above everything else? Are you implying that they don't care about the game?
    Not going to Evo =/= Not giving a fuck about the game. To imply otherwise (If that was what you were implying) is beyond stupid.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    Zachara wrote: »
    snip

    I'll address the rest of Viscant's post later but I'll quickly answer this: tournaments are there for the players who show up; everything else is secondary. I've been in the US for 15 years; I've never had a chance to go to Evo. I am of neither more importance or of higher priority as some random internet spectator than somebody who is there playing.

    Deal.
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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    Oerba wrote: »
    I hate to be that guy, but having two smash games at EVO I feel really fucked things up. Their communities are both huge and do not have nearly as much overlap as one might think, which made the venue just horribly clogged. As Viscant was saying, when Smash was going on in the exhibitor hall it was basically impossible to maneuver around in that area.
    I can't see how the EVO staff didn't have the foresight to see that including two additional games which draw the same amount of players as SF would be a logistical nightmare in that venue, especially since I'm sure they plan what venue they pick at least a year ahead.
    If we get rid of Smash we are only just delaying having to deal with the problem of "Evo is getting too big" by a year or two.
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If we're going to talk venue space, let's talk about renting out a convention hall.

    Do we need that much space? No, but we need something bigger than ballrooms. It wouldn't even be an issue if the cost of just renting a convention hall wasn't in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now we're just bringing in 5-6K people in a ballroom area that just can't handle the capacity. We should try and convince Wiz to open the purse strings a little and expand the size of the venue hall. Hell, even look outside of Las Vegas for it.
    Raz0r wrote: »
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  • J.DJ.D EVO Staff Joined: Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeah, the most natural next step is to move out of ballrooms. The problem is that will raise another ton of issues.
    For starters, if you have it a the Vegas convention center you will have to deal with the union, and that's always a pain in the butt.
    The second and biggest problem is that when you rent a hotel ballroom, you also get stuff from the hotel like power strips and cleaning staff. Not in the convention center.
    I'm sure the EVO staff will figure it out. We're growing, and that's good, but it means a lot more challenges for TOs.
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  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    Ponder said on Reddit that there are no plans to go beyond 3 days or to move out of Vegas.
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    J.D wrote: »
    Yeah, the most natural next step is to move out of ballrooms. The problem is that will raise another ton of issues.
    For starters, if you have it a the Vegas convention center you will have to deal with the union, and that's always a pain in the butt.
    The second and biggest problem is that when you rent a hotel ballroom, you also get stuff from the hotel like power strips and cleaning staff. Not in the convention center.
    I'm sure the EVO staff will figure it out. We're growing, and that's good, but it means a lot more challenges for TOs.

    Convention halls will give you power strips. I've done it dozens of times where I forgot to order one for an exhibit or one fried and either they or a third-party company just gave us strips. And when you rent a convention center as far as I know they have their own cleaning company. There's a reason why they're expensive as fuck.

    The unions are a problem, especially in Nevada. Fuckers won't even let me carry in a TV. It's goddamn ridiculous. Florida is a right to carry state so they don't give a flying fuck about unions.
    Ponder said on Reddit that there are no plans to go beyond 3 days or to move out of Vegas.

    That opinion isn't set in stone. If they want to keep games that bring thousands of people in separate communities they will evolve to keep EVO going or start cutting out games. The Cannons don't even deal with the logistics anymore, as far as I can tell. That's all Wiz.

    Last year they also took a vote to see if people wanted to spread the tournament to 4 days but we as a community said no because we're all bums and representing poverty to the fucking fullest. Now that some of you are getting your $15 an hour to serve a burger maybe you'll be less tight-assed about spending just a few extra hundred bucks.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    Raz0r wrote: »

    Last year they also took a vote to see if people wanted to spread the tournament to 4 days but we as a community said no because we're all bums and representing poverty to the fucking fullest.

    I don't think anybody was accounting for adding an entirely different community to Evo and expecting things to still work out. Most of the complaints here are indirectly about having 2 smash games. Its bad enough that had one of the most amazing displays of skills across a bunch of games and the one thing that IGN dude writes about is how smash and the rest of the scene don't seem to get along.

    Guess were gonna have to move to 4 days and one of them is gonna have to be dedicated smash day.
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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 915
    Zachara wrote: »
    Pertho wrote: »
    You're worried largely about a lot of people who don't play the game in the first place.

    Since you didn't answer it last time I'll ask it again - Who gets to decide who doesn't give a fuck and who does?
    You make an awful lot of assumptions about an awful lot of people.
    Pertho wrote: »
    Zachara wrote: »
    snip

    I'll address the rest of Viscant's post later but I'll quickly answer this: tournaments are there for the players who show up; everything else is secondary. I've been in the US for 15 years; I've never had a chance to go to Evo. I am of neither more importance or of higher priority as some random internet spectator than somebody who is there playing.

    Deal.

    I will happily accept that neither you nor I are more important than somebody who is playing.

    However you didn't answer the first thing I asked.
    Again.
    You're the one who said it in the first place so it's not like I'm asking you to defend something you're unaware of.
    At this point it's going to seem like I'm being a dick to you but that's not the intent. I still want to know what you meant by it but I get the feeling you won't answer. That's fine but you must see that you are paint up to 177K people as people who don't give a fuck because... "Reasons"?
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    Zachara wrote: »

    I will happily accept that neither you nor I are more important than somebody who is playing.

    However you didn't answer the first thing I asked.
    Again.
    You're the one who said it in the first place so it's not like I'm asking you to defend something you're unaware of.
    At this point it's going to seem like I'm being a dick to you but that's not the intent. I still want to know what you meant by it but I get the feeling you won't answer. That's fine but you must see that you are paint up to 177K people as people who don't give a fuck because... "Reasons"?

    I get what you're asking now. Look this is a community of players. Most people watching streams are not members of scenes. They don't play or contribute meaningfully to to any of the places. How the hell does MvC3 have so many views and declining attendance? What the community needs is players. Its ultimately always been about that and should continue being about that. While I'm sure there were actual members that got dicked over (you and me are a good example), acting like those stream viewers are all people who legitimately care enough to join and play is immature.

    We're gonna get all bent out of shape over people who maybe show up to a weekly once, decide its too hard and quit? Fuck out of here with that. Streaming ain't doing shit for MvC3; it lost 200 players in one year.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,609
    tataki wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    The only legitimate reason I see why they'd keep it off him was because they were worried about a Kotaku-bait style popoff

    That reason alone is more than enough. If you watched the MKX tournament on ESL they let players talk but only in videos that were recorded in advance, means they were approved to be "clean" and suitable for viewing.

    Let's rebuild the 3rd Reich.
    Only clean and approved viewing then!
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  • CalnaughtonjrCalnaughtonjr Joined: Posts: 24
    *First Post ever on this forum*

    Been following evo for a few years now, it was amazing to me how much marvel dropped in exposure for the tournament. I personally dont like the game, but it does have its following.

    I have a few theories for why marvel is getting the cold shoulder.


    1) Capcom no longer wants to promote it- if you guys read the article on IGN detailing the smashbros vs traditional fighter problems at EVO you will see capcom does not appear happy about the amount of spots smash is taking up (and i agree with that dislike, melee looks old and plays old no breakthroughs in gameplay for years just the same guys replaying each other fox vs maybe hungry box with jiggly).

    Capcom seems to be hinting that they want street fighter 4 and 5 to have spots (why discard the 4 community so quickly)
    That means axing one of their own? Marvel would be it.


    2) Capcom wants to stick it to Disney - Disney owns marvel, lets face it versus Marvel will never return again...the series is dying out and it doesnt look like they will be allowed to use the marvel license again without SIGNIFICANT concessions to disney. Capcom has essentially lost the versus series. Until they find another brand to run capcom against its going to be (maybe Street Fighter v Capcom could work, or my dream Capcom v Nintendo)


    3) Evo doesnt think the game is appealing to viewers..lets face it the game is chaos if you arent too familiar withit, half the characters are floating above the other character is just an arrow dodging below, its hard to follow who is doing what.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    *First Post ever on this forum*

    Been following evo for a few years now

    But do you play?
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • CalnaughtonjrCalnaughtonjr Joined: Posts: 24
    Pertho wrote: »
    *First Post ever on this forum*

    Been following evo for a few years now

    But do you play?

    do i play marvel v capcom ? not since dreamcast.

    do I play fighting games? yes. Do i play well? not really but they are my favorite genre (hence why I am here)


    This topic caught my Eye because I feel like marvel v capcom has alot more going on than just the fighting game community especially with Disney trying like hell to reel in the Marvel License (are you ready for universal studios Islands of Adventure...Nintendo branding?)

  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    EVO is not a Capcom event. Why are you talking like it is?
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 1,150
    Uh...what are you guys talking about? EVO is a three day event. Due to the sheer number of players joining each game, it's impossible that they find a way to stream EVERY single game. Yes, there were some matches that would have been great to capture on stream but you have 7 other games that need stream time as well. Am I disappointed that I missed Flux destroying F.Champ? Absolutely, but what can you do? How exactly do you dedicate several streams to various players in DIFFERENT pools? That just doesn't sound feasible at all.

    The real tragedy is that KaneblueRiver didn't get a chance to speak. What he had to say in regards to Marvel being everyone's game would have done a good attempt at unifying everyone who seems to play sides in the Marvel debate. But no, we get people saying "Marvel is dead!" or bullshit like "Hulk/Haggar/Sentinel just won an EVO. I wanna throw up", and etc, etc. You know who you are.
  • CalnaughtonjrCalnaughtonjr Joined: Posts: 24
    Raz0r wrote: »
    EVO is not a Capcom event. Why are you talking like it is?

    Evo is not a capcom event this is true, but the people who run evo like one thing more than fighting games, thats cash. Evo must work well with its major partners and supporters, including Capcom, nintendo, NRS, Arc, etc.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    So what, you think Capcom is pressuring Evo to drop Marvel? Ridiculous.

    It's nice that you like FGs and have been following Evo for a few years but you don't know what you're talking about.
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    These conspiracy theories are becoming worse and worse.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Uh...what are you guys talking about? EVO is a three day event. Due to the sheer number of players joining each game, it's impossible that they find a way to stream EVERY single game. Yes, there were some matches that would have been great to capture on stream but you have 7 other games that need stream time as well. Am I disappointed that I missed Flux destroying F.Champ? Absolutely, but what can you do? How exactly do you dedicate several streams to various players in DIFFERENT pools? That just doesn't sound feasible at all.

    While they can't stream every single match, they can capture them. It's ridiculous the amount of tools necessary to do this, not even counting the hard drives, but it's completely possible. They've done it before when they used to put out DVDs.

    As far as scheduling stream matches is concerned, it's 100% feasible to put every great match on stream even for EVO. The problem is just communication. I don't know if they use radios these days to talk to one another or do it face to face, but whatever it is it isn't working. It's easy to see which matches are a possibility of happening and alerting the streamer about them. In turn, the streamer can check off which matches, if they happen, should be sent over to the stream station. We're all familiar with top players so names should stand out.

    Of course since this is just a prediction you'd need freedom to make some decisions on the fly but that shouldn't be a problem.
    The real tragedy is that KaneblueRiver didn't get a chance to speak. What he had to say in regards to Marvel being everyone's game would have done a good attempt at unifying everyone who seems to play sides in the Marvel debate. But no, we get people saying "Marvel is dead!" or bullshit like "Hulk/Haggar/Sentinel just won an EVO. I wanna throw up", and etc, etc. You know who you are.

    Nah. That isn't a tragedy. That's how EVO is. Even Viscant is in here saying he didn't get a chance to speak when he won and he should have since the guy has been on SRK since its inception, a STAPLE in the scene, and it was his first time winning such a major tournament. So if we have OG as fuck dudes in here who can't speak on stage, no one should no matter what they had to say. KBR ain't exactly MLK so it isn't that big a deal.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,420 mod
    Welcome to 2015: An FG Odyssey.

    The place where stream monsters are important, armchair ryus explain things, everybody has the equipment to record matches but won't and where a community that had jack all to do with ours gets two games at our biggest tournament.
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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • OerbaOerba Just a joke! Joined: Posts: 1,373
    Marvel = fun to watch, stressful and difficult to play competitively. People love to watch it, but if you want to play competitively now the bar is set too high. Pretty much every other fighter not called Melee is still getting support, so what motivation is there to get better if not even the developers care and others are quitting in droves? I don't love the game enough to care about improving anymore, everyone in my scene quit the game, it's too unforgiving.

    Without any support, this game has maybe got one more EVO left and I wonder if top players like Chris, Champ, or Justin are even practicing anymore with SFV coming out within a year (I think?) It would've been nice to see Marvel get more love this year, unfortunately things didn't turn out way because of the shitty planning.
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 915
    edited July 2015
    @Pertho

    Ok, I think we understand each other a bit better now. :)

    (What I'm about to type doesn't really pertain to the missed matches situation that has been mostly discussed but more my thoughts based on things you've said so it may seem like I'm doing a "Moving the goalposts" type thing but that's not what I'm aiming for and it's not aimed solely at @Pertho )

    I get where you're coming from now that you've explained your position. I don't agree exactly, but I get where you're coming from. I don't believe that people should be in a situation where "If you don't turn up you don't count". I get that's not exactly what you're saying but it's a close comparison (Or at least how I took your statements previously).

    Thing is though, people who don't/can't show up for events are still a big part of this community. I have two children and when it comes down to it, would I rather spend money going to an event or spend that money on my children? Where I live there aren't any local events either so it's always a pretty huge amount of travel. Does it mean that I'm not part of the community at all because, despite playing the game still above all other games, I can't get to events?
    While all that may be very specific, many others are going to be in similar situations.

    The Stream - If I were to make my way to Evo and I see Clockwork playing against FChamp on some side setup while I'm being called up to the main stage/stream station, I would be totally baffled. I would be wondering if there's been a mix up and I'm going to the wrong station. Because I'm no one and they're at the top.

    I just think that Evo has changed from what it used to be. All of the events have.
    Streams never used to be important because it would be difficult, if possible at all. Now anyone can stream their home and it's how events can broadcast what they're doing. We're in an age now where streams are, rightly or wrongly, considered mandatory for a successful event. People treat it like a TV show or a movie. If they didn't see what they expected to see, they're unlikely to be happy.


    About the drop off in entrants - A lot of people have dropped this game because they know it's not getting any support. Gone are the days when cheap stuff was found and you had three choices: Learn how to nullify said cheapness, use said cheapness or stop playing because you weren't getting an update. Now people expect a patch the moment anything seems slightly better than something else because "Balance". (Not insulting the MK community but you see it come up there and is changed before anyone can even think about a counter)
    As soon as some people realised The top tiers were staying top (Outside of crazy tech discoveries) and lots of people moved on. I might not agree with their mentality but if they decided they're fed up of being Lightning-Looped, Sword-Looped and Tac Infinited then I can't really disagree with them. (On the flipside I cannot abide playing MK games because the games are patched so often).


    Mostly a random collection for thoughts which I think touch on the things mostly discussed in this thread. Sorry if it goes off on tangents a bit... =/
  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Until the streams can be monetized as much as the events themselves, it will always be the people who show up who matter the most.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I love punk's posting style. Those emotes are hilarious.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,360 admin
    edited July 2015
    Raz0r wrote: »
    Uh...what are you guys talking about? EVO is a three day event. Due to the sheer number of players joining each game, it's impossible that they find a way to stream EVERY single game. Yes, there were some matches that would have been great to capture on stream but you have 7 other games that need stream time as well. Am I disappointed that I missed Flux destroying F.Champ? Absolutely, but what can you do? How exactly do you dedicate several streams to various players in DIFFERENT pools? That just doesn't sound feasible at all.

    While they can't stream every single match, they can capture them. It's ridiculous the amount of tools necessary to do this, not even counting the hard drives, but it's completely possible. They've done it before when they used to put out DVDs.
    A (recording): I had volunteered a year or two ago to fund AGPs or somesuch for the top 32 stations, but supposedly they lag the stations (per players, I think?) and thus that was a no go. We could look back into this, I guess, but if it fucks up the gameplay it's not worth it.

    B (DVDs): No. The DVDs have never captured the entire breadth of matches, and there's always been a lot of great matches lost to history.

    I'm facepalming anytime anybody pretends that there's ever been an answer here. People have mitigated the problem to some extent by filming matches here and there, but there's always going to be something awesome going on somewhere that you're going to miss. :\
    As far as scheduling stream matches is concerned, it's 100% feasible to put every great match on stream even for EVO. The problem is just communication. I don't know if they use radios these days to talk to one another or do it face to face, but whatever it is it isn't working. It's easy to see which matches are a possibility of happening and alerting the streamer about them. In turn, the streamer can check off which matches, if they happen, should be sent over to the stream station. We're all familiar with top players so names should stand out.
    That's exactly that they do. Bear in mind you have to deal with timing - matches need to get done, and you can't hold match X for stream while match A isn't finished yet on stream because that'll delay match C which delays matches N-Y. It's a huge ass juggling task. They try to do it pretty well, but -- if people want to help there that's probably a brilliant plan.

    Historically, the streams also like to see non-top-players. The JWong/ChrisG match seems like an outlier - I figure there's probably some timing reason that wasn't on stream (plus or minus maybe one of the players didn't want to be on stream), but only the stream jockey would know why for sure - but generally they do try to mix it up a little and show the up and coming heroes. A full station not being used sounds like a temporary organizational failure, and again just points to the notion that if you can do it better show it next year by helping out. That's what I'll be doing, and hopefully some of the opinionated minds here also show up and make it rock that much effectively.

    Somebody was the stream jockey, helping run matches to the streaming stations and whatnot. Who was that guy? Sounds like y'all want to talk to him and provide feedback.

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  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    edited July 2015
    He confirmed or denied nothing. What is there to be worried about this early, anyway?
    Post edited by on
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  • highluluhighlulu Joined: Posts: 3,849
    Raz0r wrote: »
    J.D wrote: »
    Yeah, the most natural next step is to move out of ballrooms. The problem is that will raise another ton of issues.
    For starters, if you have it a the Vegas convention center you will have to deal with the union, and that's always a pain in the butt.
    The second and biggest problem is that when you rent a hotel ballroom, you also get stuff from the hotel like power strips and cleaning staff. Not in the convention center.
    I'm sure the EVO staff will figure it out. We're growing, and that's good, but it means a lot more challenges for TOs.

    Convention halls will give you power strips. I've done it dozens of times where I forgot to order one for an exhibit or one fried and either they or a third-party company just gave us strips. And when you rent a convention center as far as I know they have their own cleaning company. There's a reason why they're expensive as fuck.

    The unions are a problem, especially in Nevada. Fuckers won't even let me carry in a TV. It's goddamn ridiculous. Florida is a right to carry state so they don't give a flying fuck about unions.
    Ponder said on Reddit that there are no plans to go beyond 3 days or to move out of Vegas.

    That opinion isn't set in stone. If they want to keep games that bring thousands of people in separate communities they will evolve to keep EVO going or start cutting out games. The Cannons don't even deal with the logistics anymore, as far as I can tell. That's all Wiz.

    Last year they also took a vote to see if people wanted to spread the tournament to 4 days but we as a community said no because we're all bums and representing poverty to the fucking fullest. Now that some of you are getting your $15 an hour to serve a burger maybe you'll be less tight-assed about spending just a few extra hundred bucks.

    The power strips are usually being supplied by one of the vendors for the convention, i have never worked a event at a convention hall where the hall itself was handing out even small stuff like that. As for janitorial you are absolutely right that the convention hall staffs that... as for those unions? get fucked. I got chewed out by a foreman on one contract for plugging in a ethernet cable. their crew had dragged it across the floor, then taken break before plugging it in (while i was waiting there to test shit) so i plugged that shit in. Next thing i knew i got the old "are you trying to take food off their kids plates!?".
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    SF4 - Cammy, Ken
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,120
    If people are that concerned express this to wizard himself. I wanted Kane to get the mic and any winner and I would tell everyone they have a 1 minute time frame to speak. Evo is stressful enough as it is for players and the judges. It's NEVER going to be flawless but you can at least get wizard to hear you out and try to come up with a means to fix it next year. I would like for wizard to email a list to participence with a list of rules when they pay for it so that everyone knows the standard.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,664
    I dont think there was ever any confusion about players getting speak after the tournament :D

    This was right before Ono was appearing btw, dude probably had to be on a plane that night.
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