Fantasy Strike - easy to execute fighting game

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  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    It's Skullgirls all over again...
    Your jealousy at Mike actually being able to put out a good game is showing.

    Wake me when he does.
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    GigaMaidens on twitter - on deviantArt - on Discord

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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,064 mod
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    It's Skullgirls all over again...
    Your jealousy at Mike actually being able to put out a good game is showing.

    Wake me when he does.

    We would if your head wasn't so far up your ass because of your own biased. Game you don't like != bad game.

    Mike has included in his game a number of ideas/concepts that would make any fighter better.

    Going back on topic, the thing that would be applicable to our discussion here is his theory on inputs. Skullgirls does have traditional move inputs, however, even he admits that some inputs are unnecessary. So his rule is that anything more complex than a qcf, hcf, dp, rd, sonic boom, flash kick, or 360 motion is unnecessary. Half circles are only for when you run out of motions to assign a move to (which is never in his game) and he states that any competent player can pull off hcfs just as fast as qcfs, so it's just unneeded complexity. Compare with DPs which, alongside being a smidge harder to pull off than qcfs, require the player character to stand (or should require them to do so).

    As for input windows, he's come up with a formula for them - 4 framed for every input, plus an additional 4 frames for every time two inputs are not beside each other (e.g. going from forward to down in the dp motion).

    TL:DR Mike's created a sort of compromise, a halfway point between traditional inputs (which his game does have) and the direction that some have been going with 1 button moves (admitting that some motions are unnecessary).
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited November 2016
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    It's Skullgirls all over again...
    Your jealousy at Mike actually being able to put out a good game is showing.

    Wake me when he does.

    We would if your head wasn't so far up your ass because of your own biased. Game you don't like != bad game.


    Mike has included in his game a number of ideas/concepts that would make any fighter better.

    If you really think pointing out extremely obvious flaws with Capcom and NRS games and addressing them in his own game makes him some sort of genius, well... honestly that's just more of the same SG fanboy gush I've come to expect from you. I think anyone with even a passing interest in competitive fighting game play is able to see these flaws and apply their own solutions. There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING about his observations or ideas that are earth-shattering knowledge. Just because he gloats about it like he's the first person to make these observations doesn't mean he actually is. And maybe if I followed his example and let Capcom do the hard part of designing my game for me, I'd have something out by now.

    So yeah, don't break your arm jerking him off, fanboy. Game you like ≠ good game.
    Post edited by PSYCH0J0SH on
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    GigaMaidens on twitter - on deviantArt - on Discord

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  • 3417gekko3417gekko Scrub Joined: Posts: 78
    PVL_93_RU wrote: »
    Reminder that his game directly copies the following move animations for its characters
    Fucktons of animations
    No but remix culture tho.
    Like how Vanilla Ice "remixed" under pressure or how Stree Overlord remixed Street Fighter.
    As long as you have a limp-dicked excuse you can get away with actual theft.

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,064 mod
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    I disagree with Mike's opinion on half circle and greater moves. If competent players can do them, there is no problem. The idea that more complex motions are unnecessary strikes me as someone who doesn't think about the implications those inputs have for very long. Consider the DP motion, why do anti airs consistently use a DP motion instead of a fireball motion or something easier/faster to input? Because the move is intentionally awkward and affects how fast you can input it which changes how you react to things. You could argue that the original goal was to allow for more inputs in the same button space, but I would argue that at some point in the last 30 or so years of competitive fighting game play that stops being the reason. Game developers wouldn't KEEP doing DP motions forever just for that reason when there are other decisions you could make to solve that issue, and the community would not be so vehemently opposed to 1 button DP's because of how they affect the meta and how a character is played. The same is true for half circle and other more complex motions. They have a purpose, you just have to design that purpose, and I think KoF and Guilty Gear do that very well. Mike has a lot of problems with KoF/GG inputs for seemingly no reason other than they "could be" simplified, but that idea is bunk to me, everything could be simplified a great deal, why stop at getting rid of half circles, get rid of DP's and fireball motions too because those can be simplified and eventually you end up with Fantasy Strike and all of a sudden no one wants to play your game anymore. Instead, consider the implications of the motions and how they affect play.

    For instance, KoF command grabs are consistently half circle forward inputs for 1 frame throws (barring a few of course for other reasons) while slower command throws are consistently half circle back or the variant half circle back into forward (barring a few of course for other reasons). This isn't by accident or tradition, I refuse to believe that SNK over the past 20 years just randomly decided this and never changed it for no reason. Look at the applications of these moves though, with a 1 frame command throw what's the one thing you would really love to have on the ready whenever you need it? Punishes, making sure people don't get away with unsafe moves or people who are too cute with their frame trap pressure. Well as it just so happens 99% of the time your 1 frame command throw is a HCF input, which just so happens to start from a blocking position, which means you can easily block and transition into the motion to get your 1 frame punish easy. But, you might say, it doesn't need to be a half circle to do that, it could be a fireball motion and it would give you the same result. And that's very true, however that's only one situation, but that motion affects you in all situations. What's really awkward to do before buffering a HCF input? Moving forward! What's a big part of KoF? Running! So these inputs also end up being more difficult to use in offensive situations. Not impossible to use, but because of the input, your 1 frame command throw will never come out in 1 frame or anywhere near that in an offensive situation because of how awkward it is to throw it out while moving forward, defensively it's a 1 frame move all day every day, but offensively at BEST you're looking at a 5 frame move, but more realistically 7 to 10 frames. You know what input is really easy to do while moving forward? Half circle back! And because of that, a lot of characters who are more offensively mixup oriented end up with half circle back command throw inputs (or the variant). BUT! What did I say earlier? Slower command throws have this input, and they are slower for the exact reason that they have this input. Because it's easy to do a HCB while running (from the run input you can just roll a QCB and get the input in 2-4 frames), the throws are made slower so that they are not insane offensively, they become proper mixup tools.

    You could probably look at some frame data and do some math and come to the conclusion that offensively, these two throws including the inputs will come out at the same time roughly, so the inputs don't matter. But that's also wrong, because those HCB moves are intentionally made slower, so they can NEVER be used in the same way as the 1 frame command throws can be used defensively unless they have invincibility. This creates an even further distancing in abilities between characters who are great at punishing and being a wall (grapplers) and characters who have strong mixup (rushdown characters) and allows you to give rushdown characters like Iori a command throw and it doesn't break the game because Iori has all the options, because he doesn't have all the options, he just has a lot of options. It's very possible to be smart in how you design inputs and more complex inputs can be used effectively, it's on the designer to make sure they ARE used effectively. I think to write off a game design element as unnecessary entirely is pretty close minded. I understand that it clashed with Mike's idea for a fighting game and that's fine and he's totally right to want to design a game in that way, but I think it should be obvious that all games are not designed equally and what works for one game might not work for another.

    I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point was that, maybe there is a point of compromise. That maybe, there is a certain point (that may differ between the games) where some inputs become unnecessary. Even KOFXIV did this to some point, specifically with removing the pretzel input for Geese's Raging Storm. I was using Skullgirls simply as an example of a game doing this.

    That said, Mike does acknowledge that the motions do serve a purpose in regards to how a move is used. This is why he still uses traditional DP inputs and was very critical of P4A using 2 buttons for "DP" style moves (and SF's new DP shortcut), since it takes away the slight awkwardness of the motion, and the fact that the motion in itself requires the player to stand their character, adding extra risk. Also, regarding the half circles, a good number of the things you described can be applied using quarter circles, even the bit with command throws. In fact, Skullgirls does have a characters with runs and command throws. Both Valentines's Mortuary Drop and Fukua's Inevitable Snuggle are qcb+p+lk, both have slow start ups (25 frames for Valentines, 30 frame for Fukua, though the latter has 5 hits of armor). However, Fukua also has Tender Embrace which is qcf+lp+lk, and comes out much faster at 8 frames (for comparison, the fastest light normal is 5 frames). Meanwhile, grapplers with dashes instead of runs get faster throws, with Cerebella's Diamond Drop (qcf+lp+lk) coming out in 4 frames with invulnerable start up.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,326
    d3v wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    I disagree with Mike's opinion on half circle and greater moves. If competent players can do them, there is no problem. The idea that more complex motions are unnecessary strikes me as someone who doesn't think about the implications those inputs have for very long. Consider the DP motion, why do anti airs consistently use a DP motion instead of a fireball motion or something easier/faster to input? Because the move is intentionally awkward and affects how fast you can input it which changes how you react to things. You could argue that the original goal was to allow for more inputs in the same button space, but I would argue that at some point in the last 30 or so years of competitive fighting game play that stops being the reason. Game developers wouldn't KEEP doing DP motions forever just for that reason when there are other decisions you could make to solve that issue, and the community would not be so vehemently opposed to 1 button DP's because of how they affect the meta and how a character is played. The same is true for half circle and other more complex motions. They have a purpose, you just have to design that purpose, and I think KoF and Guilty Gear do that very well. Mike has a lot of problems with KoF/GG inputs for seemingly no reason other than they "could be" simplified, but that idea is bunk to me, everything could be simplified a great deal, why stop at getting rid of half circles, get rid of DP's and fireball motions too because those can be simplified and eventually you end up with Fantasy Strike and all of a sudden no one wants to play your game anymore. Instead, consider the implications of the motions and how they affect play.

    For instance, KoF command grabs are consistently half circle forward inputs for 1 frame throws (barring a few of course for other reasons) while slower command throws are consistently half circle back or the variant half circle back into forward (barring a few of course for other reasons). This isn't by accident or tradition, I refuse to believe that SNK over the past 20 years just randomly decided this and never changed it for no reason. Look at the applications of these moves though, with a 1 frame command throw what's the one thing you would really love to have on the ready whenever you need it? Punishes, making sure people don't get away with unsafe moves or people who are too cute with their frame trap pressure. Well as it just so happens 99% of the time your 1 frame command throw is a HCF input, which just so happens to start from a blocking position, which means you can easily block and transition into the motion to get your 1 frame punish easy. But, you might say, it doesn't need to be a half circle to do that, it could be a fireball motion and it would give you the same result. And that's very true, however that's only one situation, but that motion affects you in all situations. What's really awkward to do before buffering a HCF input? Moving forward! What's a big part of KoF? Running! So these inputs also end up being more difficult to use in offensive situations. Not impossible to use, but because of the input, your 1 frame command throw will never come out in 1 frame or anywhere near that in an offensive situation because of how awkward it is to throw it out while moving forward, defensively it's a 1 frame move all day every day, but offensively at BEST you're looking at a 5 frame move, but more realistically 7 to 10 frames. You know what input is really easy to do while moving forward? Half circle back! And because of that, a lot of characters who are more offensively mixup oriented end up with half circle back command throw inputs (or the variant). BUT! What did I say earlier? Slower command throws have this input, and they are slower for the exact reason that they have this input. Because it's easy to do a HCB while running (from the run input you can just roll a QCB and get the input in 2-4 frames), the throws are made slower so that they are not insane offensively, they become proper mixup tools.

    You could probably look at some frame data and do some math and come to the conclusion that offensively, these two throws including the inputs will come out at the same time roughly, so the inputs don't matter. But that's also wrong, because those HCB moves are intentionally made slower, so they can NEVER be used in the same way as the 1 frame command throws can be used defensively unless they have invincibility. This creates an even further distancing in abilities between characters who are great at punishing and being a wall (grapplers) and characters who have strong mixup (rushdown characters) and allows you to give rushdown characters like Iori a command throw and it doesn't break the game because Iori has all the options, because he doesn't have all the options, he just has a lot of options. It's very possible to be smart in how you design inputs and more complex inputs can be used effectively, it's on the designer to make sure they ARE used effectively. I think to write off a game design element as unnecessary entirely is pretty close minded. I understand that it clashed with Mike's idea for a fighting game and that's fine and he's totally right to want to design a game in that way, but I think it should be obvious that all games are not designed equally and what works for one game might not work for another.

    I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point was that, maybe there is a point of compromise. That maybe, there is a certain point (that may differ between the games) where some inputs become unnecessary. Even KOFXIV did this to some point, specifically with removing the pretzel input for Geese's Raging Storm. I was using Skullgirls simply as an example of a game doing this.

    That said, Mike does acknowledge that the motions do serve a purpose in regards to how a move is used. This is why he still uses traditional DP inputs and was very critical of P4A using 2 buttons for "DP" style moves (and SF's new DP shortcut), since it takes away the slight awkwardness of the motion, and the fact that the motion in itself requires the player to stand their character, adding extra risk. Also, regarding the half circles, a good number of the things you described can be applied using quarter circles, even the bit with command throws. In fact, Skullgirls does have a characters with runs and command throws. Both Valentines's Mortuary Drop and Fukua's Inevitable Snuggle are qcb+p+lk, both have slow start ups (25 frames for Valentines, 30 frame for Fukua, though the latter has 5 hits of armor). However, Fukua also has Tender Embrace which is qcf+lp+lk, and comes out much faster at 8 frames (for comparison, the fastest light normal is 5 frames). Meanwhile, grapplers with dashes instead of runs get faster throws, with Cerebella's Diamond Drop (qcf+lp+lk) coming out in 4 frames with invulnerable start up.

    My point was that some things can't be compromised. The designs serve a purpose and you can't retrofit different designs into old games and have them function the same. Fantasy Strike for all intents and purposes is BASICALLY SF2 but easy, and that doesn't work because the SF2 stuff was not designed to be played this way so a lot of the depth and strategy is gone and things are thrown away and not replaced with anything. You have to design a game from the ground up a certain way, and these games like FS and Rising Thunder didn't do that. They took the framework of other games and slapped on easymode controls and called it a day.

    Also, you can't possibly think that those SG examples are the same as the things I was talking about. The fact that you're talking about an 8 frame command throw being "fast" at all immediately disqualifies the comparison. The concept is similar but the actual implications are worlds apart, we're talking about literal 1 frame command throws, faster than any normal in the game, faster than the majority of supers, and it's a non-meter option that grapplers have all the time without any cooldowns or required activations. You cannot give that tool a Skullgirls input and expect the rest of the game to work the same because it won't. You would have to change the frame data to what Skullgirls did, which is why Skullgirls frame data is that way, but by doing that you are neutering the utility of the move as a punish move, because even a 4 frame command grab is too slow to punish a lot of things in KoF. Which, by the way, those things in KoF are designed that way as a balancing tool so that characters can get away with murder against other characters in the roster but not against grapplers, which is another way they force you to play that matchup differently, you can't run the same mixups and blockstrings and get away with it. So by doing that you've either got to live with the fact that grapplers are just inherently worse or change the other moves so that grapplers can punish them, etc etc etc which is a gigantic domino effect that ripples throughout the entire game.

    This is what I'm talking about. Geese's Raging Storm didn't need to get changed, but they changed it because it is historically one of the most complained about inputs in any fighting game ever. In games post-Fatal Fury, the input interpreters were so lenient that it was never an actual problem doing a Raging Storm, but that was irrelevant because it was notorious. That input too had gameplay implications that could have been designed around and in a way were, for instance Geese could not confirm into Raging Storm from a crouching normal, and only one of his standing normals could be special cancelled and it whiffed on crouching opponents, so if you were crouching Geese could not combo into Raging Storm, he had to make you stand and guess wrong to hit you with a low which altered his offensive strategy. But people complained about it so get rid of it. Compromise only removes the depth the game had originally. If you want to make an easy game you have to make a new game with new depth and a new design. SG was designed to be the way it is, the game works because it had blueprints and a mission statement and was not trying to be anything else outside of references. Compromise does not work.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,064 mod
    Except functionally, there isn't anything much different between a qcf and an hcf after a run. Most of us will naturally perform an hcf, or at least start from down+back, to clear the input buffer and avoid DP motions.

    And then there's stuff outside of command throws. For example, why the hell does King's tornado kick need an hcb command? Majority of us can pull it off just as fast as if it were a qcb command. From where I stand, all it does is require a bit of extra finger gymnastics when doing BnBs such as cl.HK, df.HK xx tornado kick, which by the way, also shows that the hcb isn't because they don't want it to be confirmable from lows.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • doctorfedoradoctorfedora A Road in Kyoto Joined: Posts: 30
    edited November 2016
    So hey uh!

    Speaking as someone who has actually played this game, and a fair bit at that, and who took it to an event at a fighting game bar in Osaka last weekend, here is what has happened with every single person who actually played it in my experience:

    1. They laughed at the still-very-much-in-progress appearance with lots of placeholder stuff
    2. New fighting game players learned the controls in a match or two, while old players "unlearned" command inputs and got used to the special move buttons
    3. Everyone really, really enjoyed playing the game. New players got to experience the meat of the genre (spacing, baiting out punishable moves, etc.) and old players really liked that it felt very SF2, with high-damage combos and quick rounds

    I know the FGC really loves to fall all over itself to see who can shit on everything new the fastest (see: reactions to KOF XIV, which was at a much more complete stage before it was revealed, as well as how the overwhelming attitude toward SF4 being Not As Good As Things Used To Be got transferred immediately to SF5, and now people apparently think SF4 was a good game), but in my own experience actually playing this game and sharing it with others, it is a legitimately really fun game that also happens to still need a lot of polish, because it isn't even in beta state yet.
    Post edited by doctorfedora on
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,940
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    It's Skullgirls all over again...
    Your jealousy at Mike actually being able to put out a good game is showing.

    Wake me when he does.

    We would if your head wasn't so far up your ass because of your own biased. Game you don't like != bad game.
    You aren't wrong but don't act like there's an objective definition for what a "good" game is lmao
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,923 mod
    So hey uh!

    Speaking as someone who has actually played this game, and a fair bit at that, and who took it to an event at a fighting game bar in Osaka last weekend, here is what has happened with every single person who actually played it in my experience:

    1. They laughed at the still-very-much-in-progress appearance with lots of placeholder stuff
    2. New fighting game players learned the controls in a match or two, while old players "unlearned" command inputs and got used to the special move buttons
    3. Everyone really, really enjoyed playing the game. New players got to experience the meat of the genre (spacing, baiting out punishable moves, etc.) and old players really liked that it felt very SF2, with high-damage combos and quick rounds

    I know the FGC really loves to fall all over itself to see who can shit on everything new the fastest (see: reactions to KOF XIV, which was at a much more complete stage before it was revealed, as well as how the overwhelming attitude toward SF4 being Not As Good As Things Used To Be got transferred immediately to SF5, and now people apparently think SF4 was a good game), but in my own experience actually playing this game and sharing it with others, it is a legitimately really fun game that also happens to still need a lot of polish, because it isn't even in beta state yet.

    I'm glad. I had similar experiences with Divekick. I'm really, really looking forward to this because it'll be something I can use to play with some friends for whom FGs are a bit too hard but that wanna get their feet wet. Playing Nidhogg with the same group was a lot of fun, hopefully this gets to be just as good.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    It's Skullgirls all over again...
    Your jealousy at Mike actually being able to put out a good game is showing.

    Wake me when he does.

    We would if your head wasn't so far up your ass because of your own biased. Game you don't like != bad game.
    You aren't wrong but don't act like there's an objective definition for what a "good" game is lmao

    FGC logic = every game I don't play is a bad game.

    inversely, if you join a group of a certain game, they tend to praise it and ignore its faults like it is super jesus fighter: godly edition
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,814
    I don't think you can really have a good fighting game that's not fun, as that's kind of the point. But there are plenty of fun games that aren't good; lord knows I get a lot of enjoyment from DFCI, but it's definitely not a good game.

    On the remixing, it's really dumb that he's defending this in game. It's okayish on the cards when everyone realizes you're basically doing knockoffs and that's part of the fun. For the actual videogame that's crossing the line into flatout ripoff territory because you're actively competing with the real thing.

    If this game is going to be successful he really has to make it look good. Like, really good; get your artstyle in order and make models beautiful. Because with a game this simply the majority of your costs once you've got it up and running are going to come from making the model; you've got barely any animations after all. So it shouldn't be hard to actually have a constant stream of new characters coming out so that everyone has something they like to play. Just make it look good!

    Well that and I need Gwen in game. So much fun in the card game.
  • SaitsuSaitsu Tranquilo...ASSENAYO! Joined: Posts: 34,106
    It'd be really fun to start playing Yomi on here. It's a fun game but there's not a ton of people to play it with. I'm debating doing the Print and Play of the 4 free characters but idk yet.
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  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2016
    Got a chance to play this for a few hours. Used Geiger. It's not terrible, though I do wish there was a way to crouch. Not because I'm fiending for high/low, but because I sometimes wanted to be able to block without walking back. I like the damage system (or heavily pared-down equivalent), and the juggles are really screwy and a lot of fun. I once managed to somehow get an anti-air sonic scythe to juggle into another sonic scythe.

    On that note, I really hope they overhaul the attacks down the road. The bootlegged animations might be handy as a shorthand, but they reek of laziness. A game this simple can use all the diversity it can, and wholly unique animations would help a lot.

    EDIT: Realized that down-to-block would screw up the crossup thing they have going on. Maybe just a raw neutral crouch that reduces profile but doesn't actually block anything could do the job, I dunno
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • Pimp WillyPimp Willy "I guarantee we got a rat in the house!" Joined: Posts: 10,753 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited November 2016
    Ulrik wrote: »

    As for how these characters come close to being a "rip-off" of Street Fighter, that's more down to Sirlin Games' history than this specific game - Yomi (the card game) was designed to be an SF2 card game (there are rumours that they tried for the license, but I got no clue if those are true). So the Yomi "setting" is based on SF2 to various degrees, but Sirlin has continued to use it for all his games and has built on it. So when he does make a fighting game, using the Yomi characters is the obvious choice.

    Way back, a long long time ago, I downloaded the first set of print and play for the yomi card game, and it was just straight up street fighter. I had a guile deck and a zangief deck, and a ryu deck. Of course they just morphed to other character, but the playstyles remained even to this day, which I don't really see what the big deal of that is


    As for the game, I'm excited to play it at the PSX Experience. I think backing it monthly on patreon is a bit steep of a price, but I'm hoping that when it does come out it will be a good stepping stone for fighting games. My family knows I love street fighter, but of course nobody can really play because it gets pretty complicated fast. Divekick was a lot of fun, we had people in my family playing that I would never have thought would have been interested, like my mother in law, who was actually getting into it. This is the perfect game to bridge that gap and teach some of the concepts, without having the controller be the major limiting factor. My 6 year old son, for instance, will love playing this with me

    e$ports
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,923 mod
    So wherebthe updates at?
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    Oh yes please. I want to see Capcom's lawyers burn this shit to the ground.

    Please keep those stolen animations in the final release, I beg you.
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,923 mod
    Aren't most of them placeholder anyway? Don't think the game is gonna ship with SF4 animations.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,042
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    Oh, they "feature" them now. Alright then.

    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=D3_oTApupZE
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  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 2,809
    You can't own an animation anymore than you can copyright a dance move.

    C'mon, kids.
    XBL: Kalyx triaD

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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 25,649
    edited March 3
    Unless they used Capcom assets for the animation they won't be able to take legal action against them.
    PSN: Hawkingbird
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  • MajormelisThereMajormelisThere no labels Joined: Posts: 497
    I think if you're gonna call what sirlin is doing a "ripoff", then you might as well call films like The Godfather, The Untouchables and Brazil rip-offs of Battleship Potemkin.



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  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    I can't believe how many people are here trying to defend blatant plagiarism. It's astonishing.
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  • SaitsuSaitsu Tranquilo...ASSENAYO! Joined: Posts: 34,106
    Because if Fantasy Strike gets sued for this, then there are at least 500,000 games that would need to get sued as well.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
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  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited March 4
    Sure.

    You guys are aware that doing something similar isn't the same as direct stealing, right?
    Post edited by PSYCH0J0SH on
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 25,649
    What your asking for Capcom to take legal action against the game. Anyone who understands how law works knows they won't have a case if they did try to pursue them legally.
    PSN: Hawkingbird
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  • S00perCamS00perCam Cold as ice Joined: Posts: 2,397
    @Hawkingbird what your asking is for @PSYCH0J0SH to not care about irrelevant bullshit and understand we are OK with him having an opinion. Anyone who understands how SRK works knows that people would rather hate games than play them and fight you in the forum than in an actual fighting game.
    Just because your buff, don't play tuff Cause I'll reverse the earth and turn your flesh back to dust
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,042
    I think copy/pasting SF animations and then claiming it's cool because remix culture is a scummy move. I'm pretty sure it's not illegal though, since reskinning apps is a thing and is apparently okay.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited March 4
    S00perCam wrote: »
    @Hawkingbird what your asking is for @PSYCH0J0SH to not care about irrelevant bullshit

    I think it's idiotic to call it irrelevant bullshit. If you really can't see the problem with blatant plagiarism then you're beyond hope and can't be reasoned with.
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  • UlrikUlrik Joined: Posts: 21
    I'm more and more in love with this game. If they only got netplay up and running soon...

    In case you missed it, they updated the shading/rendering. The game looks much prettier now:

    http://www.fantasystrike.com/blog/2017/game-update-january-2017
  • S00perCamS00perCam Cold as ice Joined: Posts: 2,397
    "Good artists copy, great artists steal" - Pablo Picasso
    Just because your buff, don't play tuff Cause I'll reverse the earth and turn your flesh back to dust
  • AlegrettoAlegretto The King of Breakfast. Joined: Posts: 413
    edited May 30
    I agree that the oversimplicity could be a solution without a problem. The Samurai Deeper Kyo game for PSX already tried oversimplified inputs with autocombos on normals and one-button special moves and it wasn't particularly eventful. Granted, Fantasy Strike seems like a much richer game than that one was, but it still makes me wonder how much depth it can achieve.
    Furthermore, there's more than one type of fighting game player. Many are there for the mindgames and footsies, but many are there for the execution and flashy combos, too. I'd wager most are there for both. I guess we'll see how this develops once the game is released, but I don't see it catching the attention of enough people for a long enough time.
    MBAA: C-Ryougi/H-Loa

    ;_; it's been so long since I've played MBAA
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    S00perCam wrote: »
    @Hawkingbird what your asking is for @PSYCH0J0SH to not care about irrelevant bullshit

    I think it's idiotic to call it irrelevant bullshit. If you really can't see the problem with blatant plagiarism then you're beyond hope and can't be reasoned with.
    That's not what plagerism is.

    Yes it is. Just because they're not breaking a law doesn't make it any LESS plagiarism. You don't seem to get the process of how ideas are made and formed. Taking inspiration from something means putting your own spin on it, making it into something original that hasn't been seen before, not just copying something frame by frame and claiming it's original because you drew a different character doing it.

    When your game has more "homages" and "outside references" than it has original content, your game is built on plagiarism. Simple as that. You're not making an original product, you're making a pastiche of other products and ideas and reselling it as yours.
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  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,091
    No, its really not. Stay dumb.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited May 30
    No, its really not. Stay dumb.

    Says the dipshit who can't even spell it right.

    "Plagerism". Stay in first grade.
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  • odinodin is october coming? Joined: Posts: 15,330 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,091
    edited May 30
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    No, its really not. Stay dumb.

    Says the dipshit who can't even spell it right.

    "Plagerism". Stay in first grade.
    lol your butt hurt is palpable.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    Pretty sure when you pull a "bitch and run" like you just did, you lost the argument. It's like a trail of anal blood leaking out of your pants. You're not in any position to talk about butthurt.
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  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,091
    edited May 31
    Except in still here bitch ass. Fucking assumptive ass moron. You're the one who bitched out first going after a minor spelling mistake you fucking tool.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited May 31
    He's hemorrhaging more anal blood doctor, get him a cork or something.

    Not even being able to spell the word demonstrates my entire point. If you can't even spell the word properly then obviously you've never looked it up in a dictionary and saw the actual definition of the word, or you'd see how much it proves your stupid ass wrong. Let me take your ass to google since you can't even figure out how to use it yourself:
    noun
    1.
    an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author:
    It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne.
    Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
    2.
    a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation:
    “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor.

    I don't give a fuck how many autistic SG fanboys get mad at me calling a spade a spade. SG, and Fantasy Strike, are both heavily built on plagiarism, and profit off it.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 25,649
    edited May 31
    God you are a fucking moron. You just proved how nothing the Fantasy Strike devs are doing falls under plagiarism. The definition you provided applies to literary works which is why author is brought up so damn much. Programmers and animators are not authors.
    PSN: Hawkingbird
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  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    edited May 31
    How are you this fucking dense, Hawkingbird? I have to believe you're trolling. I don't know you can breathe being this stupid.

    Getting pedantic about terminlogy like the word "author" is just showing you have no argument left to make. Anyone who creates something is an author you idiot. It's not just limited to people who write text. Anyone who creates characters, moves, or even written code, can be considered an "author", so even by your retarded narrow definition it stumps your argument dead. Programmers refer to themselves internally as authors of code all the fucking time. Jesus christ, just stop before your head explodes.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/author

    a : one that originates or creates something : source software authors film authors the author of this crime

    There it is, what now, shit for brains?
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  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,042
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Yes it is. Just because they're not breaking a law doesn't make it any LESS plagiarism.

    So what? If they can get away with it, then more power to them. Capcom shits all over their own IPs anyway. They aren't exactly sacred anymore. If this is just a debate about ethics, then it's not a very compelling one. I don't really understand why you're so up in arms over it. It's like getting all worked up because some small business is using a reskinned Walmart logo. It just makes you look like a huge tool.
  • JetKinenJetKinen Joined: Posts: 578
    Yatagarasu used 3rd strike sprites in their characters so in the end i don't think it matters, or that they care

  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,091
    edited May 31
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »

    Not even being able to spell the word demonstrates my entire point. If you can't even spell the word properly then obviously you've never looked it up in a dictionary and saw the actual definition of the word, or you'd see how much it proves your stupid ass wrong.
    It doesn't mean that at all. It means I misspelled a word. Thats all it means. Way to jump off the deep end you crazy fuck. No one is upset at crybabys like yourself that are too fucking dumb to know what you are talking about.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
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