KOF XIV General Discussion - KOF XIV: Special Anniversary Edition out in the Americas

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  • CoolSpotXCoolSpotX Joined: Posts: 100
    Amazigh wrote: »
    Dwin wrote: »


    Should probably tweet this to snk and prominent japanese players so it can get fixed in the next patch.

    Everyone here should tweet @SNKPofficial whenever they find some shit on twitter that need to be fixed (i'll do it from now on)

    Tweet them to set up a bug report form or at least some kind of a feedback on their website.
    It would be much more useful now and in the future.
    "I'm going to break your troubles with my Tae Kwon Do!" (c) Kim Kaphwan
  • Chizuru_Youko96Chizuru_Youko96 Joined: Posts: 280
    CoolSpotX wrote: »
    Amazigh wrote: »
    Dwin wrote: »


    Should probably tweet this to snk and prominent japanese players so it can get fixed in the next patch.

    Everyone here should tweet @SNKPofficial whenever they find some shit on twitter that need to be fixed (i'll do it from now on)

    Tweet them to set up a bug report form or at least some kind of a feedback on their website.
    It would be much more useful now and in the future.

    Why not tweeting to the people who're on their localization team? Maybe Atlus? And i think we should gather up what we find all at once and let someone who's close enough to contact their main guys like Oda, Kuroki or Neo_G instead of overloading them with tweets.
  • CoolSpotXCoolSpotX Joined: Posts: 100
    CoolSpotX wrote: »
    Amazigh wrote: »
    Dwin wrote: »


    Should probably tweet this to snk and prominent japanese players so it can get fixed in the next patch.

    Everyone here should tweet @SNKPofficial whenever they find some shit on twitter that need to be fixed (i'll do it from now on)

    Tweet them to set up a bug report form or at least some kind of a feedback on their website.
    It would be much more useful now and in the future.

    Why not tweeting to the people who're on their localization team? Maybe Atlus? And i think we should gather up what we find all at once and let someone who's close enough to contact their main guys like Oda, Kuroki or Neo_G instead of overloading them with tweets.

    That is exactly what I said. All of bug report information should be gathered and reviewed by someone, then sent to development team to fix, reply or place on a schedule. No matter who, localization team or SNK, will do it.

    Twitter is just not a right place to do such work ..not very comfortable to handle flow of different info. It would be much easier with report-feedback form on the website, that will sent e-mails to SNK with fields like : "bug type" "screenshot attached" etc.
    "I'm going to break your troubles with my Tae Kwon Do!" (c) Kim Kaphwan
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 530
    edited September 2016
    I certainly hope they already reported that to the devs on top of being on Twitter.

    Whay do you guys think of Shun Ei by the way ? I don't play him, but being the main character of this game, I would have expected to see him more, what happened ?
    Post edited by Hyun Sai on
  • Legend IILegend II Living Legend sequel. Joined: Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    d3v wrote: »
    That seems to be overreacting for an explainable glitch (Andy's pushbox moving forward enough during st.A to allow the crossup).

    Agreed.

    I mean, is understandable if it was something like 2001 Foxy or 2003 Duo Lon which were really OP and were taking your fun away or a huge bug that changed system mechanics completely.

    But quitting over this...really?
    Never lose your dignity for anyone.
    KOF 14: Clark, Kula, Mai and Yuri, Ryuji, Terry
    Street Fighter 5: Laura, Abigail, Kolin
  • BronnBronn Joined: Posts: 436
    edited September 2016
    I'd rather them not touch the top tiers and just make everyone else on their level. Fighting games are more fun with strong characters then safe low tier characters.

    o yea they're definitely gonna let sylvie do 400 dmg meterless to compete with K, or maybe let her combo break like pet shop

    maybe snk will swap in a copy of mvc2 everytime we boot up kof14

    3s: Alex with the occasional hugo
    SFV: Alex, maybe urine
    KOF14: whoever, Ralf, Daimon
  • CottoneyesCottoneyes Joined: Posts: 61
    Honestly I'm working with what I got even if I have to go up against Robert and the top tiers. Only thing I'm bothered by is just how weak some vets are by comparison. I was looking forward to Chang this time around, but hopefully that patch will get him out the gutter.
  • Chizuru_Youko96Chizuru_Youko96 Joined: Posts: 280
    edited September 2016
    d3v wrote: »
    That seems to be overreacting for an explainable glitch (Andy's pushbox moving forward enough during st.A to allow the crossup).
    d3v wrote: »
    That seems to be overreacting for an explainable glitch (Andy's pushbox moving forward enough during st.A to allow the crossup).

    Agreed.

    I mean, is understandable if it was something like 2001 Foxy or 2003 Duo Lon which were really OP and were taking your fun away or a huge bug that changed system mechanics completely.

    But quitting over this...really?

    I don't think "overreacting" is an appropriate word for this guy:


    When you think other people are overreacting but you're the only one.
    Cronopio wrote: »
    Because KOF has never ever had corner inconsistencies before. Vice getting corner crossups after command throw never happened.

    I mean, if we're talking about their previous 2D KOFs then it's obviously never gonna happen much because it's still in their specialty, this is their first 3D title so there's a lot of thing that they might have overlooked.
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    I'd rather them not touch the top tiers and just make everyone else on their level. Fighting games are more fun with strong characters then safe low tier characters.

    That's not how balancing works. Let's say character A is top tier because he has meterless, 100% combo, anywhere on the screen, that starts from a 3-frame low. You COULD, in theory, buff everyone to have that, but not only is it more work, but it changes up the entire way the game is played.

    Another example could be, what if character Z was a strong zoning character with a teleport that had next to no recovery and no startup? You could either nerf that move, or buff everyone to be able to deal with it, which could cause more problems than it'd solve.

    An easy way to put this is basically, if you mess up a nerf, you ruin that one character. But if you mess up a buff, you could ruin the entire cast.
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,246 mod
    Yeah when everybody is retarded there will just be those that are more retarded. Hence MVC2/MVC3.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • BronnBronn Joined: Posts: 436
    edited September 2016
    "Would it be a better game for it? Absolutely not."

    huh? why'zat? are they are any MVC2 players who never thought "wish I could fuck with this guy without getting fucked"?
    I mean, imagine a 3s where Chunners was only Ken good...would it buff Alex? No...but it'd be one less shit matchup. A man can dream...
    3s: Alex with the occasional hugo
    SFV: Alex, maybe urine
    KOF14: whoever, Ralf, Daimon
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,972 mod
    Bronn wrote: »
    Im gonna also assume all the disappointed SFV juri waifu guys went over to this and are those people who play King - Nakoruru - Mature
    That's not a bad team. They could simply be picking it because it's pretty decent.
    Saitsu wrote: »
    rayplay wrote: »
    I'd rather them not touch the top tiers and just make everyone else on their level. Fighting games are more fun with strong characters then safe low tier characters.

    That's not how balancing works. Let's say character A is top tier because he has meterless, 100% combo, anywhere on the screen, that starts from a 3-frame low. You COULD, in theory, buff everyone to have that, but not only is it more work, but it changes up the entire way the game is played.

    Another example could be, what if character Z was a strong zoning character with a teleport that had next to no recovery and no startup? You could either nerf that move, or buff everyone to be able to deal with it, which could cause more problems than it'd solve.

    An easy way to put this is basically, if you mess up a nerf, you ruin that one character. But if you mess up a buff, you could ruin the entire cast.

    Yes, if you have one absurdly broken character that demolishes the game it's better to nerf them. But continuing to nerf great characters because you didn't provide lower characters better ways to deal or play ends up making the entire game bland. And we have multiple examples of games that have done just that and have suffered for it.

    It's almost always better to raise the bottom rather than lower the ceiling. Why? Because people enjoy taking fighting games to their limits. Lowering those limits takes away that.

    Let's talk MvC2. If we nerfed the Four Gods would the game be better balanced? Pretty much yeah, a lot more characters would become viable. Would it be a better game for it? Absolutely not. Sometimes when something changes the way a game is played it's for the better.

    Also don't start with the fallacy of "Well if this character killed someone with one touch, should everyone else be buffed to match it?" again. It really makes you look foolish.

    This.

    Besides, as Neo_G stated, he likes characters with strong tools. Better then to address characters near the bottom who may not actually have strong tools, or whose tools and playstyle are overshadowed by other characters, instead of nerfing the other characters to match them.
  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 35,086
    Bronn wrote: »
    "Would it be a better game for it? Absolutely not."

    huh? why'zat? are they are any MVC2 players who never thought "wish I could fuck with this guy without getting fucked"?
    I mean, imagine a 3s where Chunners was only Ken good...would it buff Alex? No...but it'd be one less shit matchup. A man can dream...

    MvC2 players, and Marvel players in general, would much prefer getting more juice and freedom for their own characters. Most would rather say "Man, I wish my character could do X" rather than "Man, I wish those characters couldn't do X".

    And 3S Alex has a lot of problems...even if you subscribe to the "Lower the Ceiling" policy, Alex STILL would need a buff in that game. A lot of 3S characters have problems, that are only somewhat mitigated by having Parry to allow truly skillful players to overcome them.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
    FC: 0490-4604-8179 
    Street Fighter 5: Vega
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,813
    Saitsu wrote: »
    rayplay wrote: »
    I'd rather them not touch the top tiers and just make everyone else on their level. Fighting games are more fun with strong characters then safe low tier characters.

    That's not how balancing works. Let's say character A is top tier because he has meterless, 100% combo, anywhere on the screen, that starts from a 3-frame low. You COULD, in theory, buff everyone to have that, but not only is it more work, but it changes up the entire way the game is played.

    Another example could be, what if character Z was a strong zoning character with a teleport that had next to no recovery and no startup? You could either nerf that move, or buff everyone to be able to deal with it, which could cause more problems than it'd solve.

    An easy way to put this is basically, if you mess up a nerf, you ruin that one character. But if you mess up a buff, you could ruin the entire cast.

    Yes, if you have one absurdly broken character that demolishes the game it's better to nerf them. But continuing to nerf great characters because you didn't provide lower characters better ways to deal or play ends up making the entire game bland. And we have multiple examples of games that have done just that and have suffered for it.

    It's almost always better to raise the bottom rather than lower the ceiling. Why? Because people enjoy taking fighting games to their limits. Lowering those limits takes away that.

    Let's talk MvC2. If we nerfed the Four Gods would the game be better balanced? Pretty much yeah, a lot more characters would become viable. Would it be a better game for it? Absolutely not. Sometimes when something changes the way a game is played it's for the better.

    Also don't start with the fallacy of "Well if this character killed someone with one touch, should everyone else be buffed to match it?" again. It really makes you look foolish.

    MvC2 isn't a good example honestly, because the game has a lot of meta that comes from those top 4 that most of the cast just can't do. Look at everything that Storm can do and then look at how Ryu's tatsu still whiffs on crouchers in that game.

    A better, more recent example is GGXRD Revelator. Before the patch, the top three characters were Johnny, Elphelt, and Sin. These three more or less shitted on the rest of the cast. Now, Arc COULD have buffed everyone up to their level, but the game was actually fairly well balanced outside of those top three and a few of the bottom tier characters. I've spoken with numerous people on this subject and a lot of them agreed that the game is balanced enough to the point where if someone asked for a buff for like a mid tier character, the changes would sometimes be something abysmally minor like "this poke has a few extra frames of hitstun" or "this normal now hits low".
    PSN: rayplay
    Best widowmaker in North Korea.
    "He's gonna switch to wireless mid greed sever."
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 530
    edited September 2016




    Kyamei tier list popped too

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs83X4qXEAA1SB3.jpg:large

    SS : Nakoruru / K'
    S : Kim / Leona / Athena / Robert / Mature /Mai / Benimaru / Zarina
    A+ : Geese / Verse / Love Heart
    A : Iori / Chin / Shun Ei / Dinosaur / Mian / Luong / Kukri
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,143
    Interesting to see Verse being considered quite strong. I wonder what people found with them.

    As for balance, I really hope the changes are only minimal and only touch the truly silly stuff and then buff the weaker characters. The last thing I would want is for everyone to be weak and boring. Powerful stuff is fun.

    My nerf wishlist would be:

    Nako: more travel in A Mutsube, a few frames less invul in cling and more recovery when eating projectiles. Add some more startup to bird super maybe. Leave buttons as is.

    K needs more recovery on slide so it isn't +50 and more recovery on first part of projectile so he can't just stand there whiffing all day long till you do something.

    Remove any follow-up chance from Athena's command throw. It has invul and she's a zoner, why give her such damage that overshadows throw specialists? EX ball faster and hits twice instead of four times. Giving you four Venom tier ball supers for a single bar is a bit too much.

    Mature, keep invul for EX dp as is, add more recovery to make it more punishable. Damage reduction on EX Ebony Tears.

    Leona, make EX air projectile hard KO, give it a bit more damage to compensate. Maybe add a bit more recovery to regular air projectile so she doesn't get so much damage anywhere? Might be too much of a nerf perhaps.

    Less leniency for whiff projectile supercancels or just making projectile cancels hit only would automatically make Mai (and Athena) zoning more reasonable without actually touching the characters.

    Some buffs I can think of right now, make normals for Sylvie, Chang, and Xanadu faster. Damage buff for Chang's normals. More range to Tung's shou-ha.

    Bugfix: close normal activation fixed, faster turn-arounds, wallbounce bug fixed by giving it a timer instead of "keep in state till character hits a wall".
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 530
    You can watch Lacid archive stream, he uses Verse frequently these days.
  • Johnny_AJohnny_A Joined: Posts: 10
    edited September 2016
    Cronopio wrote: »

    Less leniency for whiff projectile supercancels or just making projectile cancels hit only would automatically make Mai (and Athena) zoning more reasonable without actually touching the characters.

    As much as I love it, the leniency is far too good. If they nerf it, I hope they do it like that.
    On hit only would not work as it would be guaranteed hit/block. As it is now you can actually waste the meter, by completely whiffing the supers etc.
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 530
    Don't forget removing the leniency will also remove / nerf a good chunk of combos of the game for many fireball characters. Unless the re-work the system entirely (and I don't think they'll do), that won't happen.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,143
    Removing leniency would do much more good than harm. Unless you think guaranteed AA supers is fine something has to be done with that.
  • FrágmentFrágment Joined: Posts: 536
    If you could add:
    1) A new team (a pre-existing one in the KOF mythos)
    2) Three random characters

    Which ones would you choose?
    My choices would be:
    1) Agents team - Mary, Vanessa, Seth
    2) Mary, Adelheid, Ash
  • Chizuru_Youko96Chizuru_Youko96 Joined: Posts: 280
    Anyone here understand Japanese or Latin? to help translating the lyric for the respective song?
  • Legend IILegend II Living Legend sequel. Joined: Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hyun Sai wrote: »




    Kyamei tier list popped too

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cs83X4qXEAA1SB3.jpg:large

    SS : Nakoruru / K'
    S : Kim / Leona / Athena / Robert / Mature /Mai / Benimaru / Zarina
    A+ : Geese / Verse / Love Heart
    A : Iori / Chin / Shun Ei / Dinosaur / Mian / Luong / Kukri

    I am really curious about the Verse tech. I have seen some koreans use him randomly and nothing great so I want to see.

    I also want to see the reasoning about Robert. I wonder why they put him so high.

    As for the rest, with the exception of Nakoruru, I agree.

    And Kim is Top Tier again for sure. While not as strong as his 13 self, he ain't that far off and his cancel game is ridiculous from his options. And I agree with most of the rest. Once this stupid blackout situation goes away, I'll update shortly.
    Never lose your dignity for anyone.
    KOF 14: Clark, Kula, Mai and Yuri, Ryuji, Terry
    Street Fighter 5: Laura, Abigail, Kolin
  • PVL_93_RUPVL_93_RU When's Dragon Ball? Joined: Posts: 10,842
    Anyone here understand Japanese or Latin? to help translating the lyric for the respective song?

    ahem

    @bakfromon @Miðgarðsorm
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  • Legend IILegend II Living Legend sequel. Joined: Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG


    Some nice combos here. I like the Billy one.
    Never lose your dignity for anyone.
    KOF 14: Clark, Kula, Mai and Yuri, Ryuji, Terry
    Street Fighter 5: Laura, Abigail, Kolin
  • BronnBronn Joined: Posts: 436
    btw, Kyamei's tier list put Dinosaur over Goro as best grappler...who agrees with this? I can kinda see it, his normals are pretty great
    3s: Alex with the occasional hugo
    SFV: Alex, maybe urine
    KOF14: whoever, Ralf, Daimon
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