Fighter's Destiny: the Declassified Guide (N64)

IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
Fighters_destiny_box.JPG

The skinny
So I've been working on this guide for the N64 Fighter's Destiny. There's so, so little info for it floating around, so I figured "what the hell, better get cracking on a guide for a dead game" and clear things up. It's a WIP, but I've been sitting on it for so long that I figured I should just put it out there and see what develops. It's an interesting game--if you play Virtua Fighter you'll probably feel right at home--but I'm shocked that no one's spent time looking for the cheap shit before. That's what happens when nobody plays a dead game, I guess. Here's hoping this can turn a few heads:

Fighter's Destiny: the Declassified Guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwHQbgL5SDjadXZrcW5HY1dRTkE/view

What the heck is Fighter's Destiny
1998 N64 3D fighting game. Made by the guys who handled the Dreamcast port of Virtua Fighter 3tb, and cut from the same cloth. The presentation is beyond bland (and some of the characters are downright bizarre), but it's neat. With points instead of rounds, lots of grapples/reversals, spacing/baiting strings for counter-hits, deemphasized oki, and high-stakes OHKO options, there's lots of changes to standard genre conventions--and tons of buried tech to discover, like infinites, Lazy Throw Escape, unblockables, and Counter teching. Try it out! It's about time we made up for 17 years of silence.

What will I need to play
Without a Memory Pak or two you'll be playing with gimped movelists. This guide assumes you've unlocked everyone's skills already. The moves are easy to unlock, but it'll take some time. If you have Fighter Destiny 2 it takes longer, so yeah have fun with that

Gameshark code to unlock the other characters:
50000E01 0000
80307349 0001

Shoutout to @GhostHawk for reminding me this game existed in the distant past of 2014.
Post edited by IM_Amazon on
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Comments

  • BzChoyBzChoy Only the finest poverty shit. Joined: Posts: 438
    Yooo, good shit. I'm always hype for obscure games' tech.

    While playing casually against friends, I thought Master was top tier and Joker was shit tier (no real connection to their name.) I guess I don't know jack shit about the game.
    My main: the most lame, cheesy, trollish character in your favorite game.

    Yeah, apparently people do play Advanced V.G. 2, well Japs do. Check it out, the grandaunt or some shit of anime games: Advanced V.G. 2 - JPN Competitive Matches
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    BzChoy wrote: »
    I thought Master was top tier and Joker was shit tier

    Master's no slouch. I only put him that low because of how little he can abuse compared to Meiling or Bob or whatever. He's got upsides--but he struggles with the block button, which bites when you don't have Locks to tell people to stop.

    I'll admit I'm overrating Joker (the tiers aren't that far apart, at least not yet), but he's the total package and has some cheap toys to play with.

  • abkalldayabkallday Joined: Posts: 2,215
    Interesting read
    Psn:Genocidecu
    UMVC3:Dante/X-23/Magneto Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Lars/Nina USF4:Guy/Juri/Adon/Rufus
    GGPO:genocide_cuttah KOF 2002 Shermie/K/Kula Kof 98: Iroi/Robert/Saisyu/Kyo Garou: Kim Dong Hwan and Gato
  • BzChoyBzChoy Only the finest poverty shit. Joined: Posts: 438
    You got any match vids for us to watch?
    My main: the most lame, cheesy, trollish character in your favorite game.

    Yeah, apparently people do play Advanced V.G. 2, well Japs do. Check it out, the grandaunt or some shit of anime games: Advanced V.G. 2 - JPN Competitive Matches
  • CottoneyesCottoneyes Joined: Posts: 61
    I loved this game back in the day. Glad to see it getting some recognition by someone.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,314
    Hahah, I almost forgot this old game existed. Haven't played it in 15 years, I think. I recall mashing with Leon and Master, for the most part.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    Combos? Combos.

    Here's a video that @GhostHawk made. By the standards of the guide it's rather dated (and several are Training-only), but some of it's still good:

    Here's a Joker video from @AcidGlow (who has shitloads of videos for the game):

    And here's a prototypical list of combos for everybody. These assume you've unlocked all their skills. I'll add them to the guide at some point:
    Ryuji
    CH 412B, 5B(G), 6AB, 5A = 61 damage
    412AAB(G), 6AB, 5A = 61 damage
    [412AAB(G)] = Infinite. Timing's a bit tough to OTG correctly. Slowdown can make this a bitch to time--and if the spacing is off the last hit won't connect, resulting in a literal failure to launch.

    Abdul
    CH 3B, 44BA = "Knockdown! Three points won!"
    But seriously folks, don't bother.

    Pierre
    CH 2B, 6AA = 47 damage
    6AB, BT 2BBB, BT 5A = 70 damage. BT 5A is slightly plus on hit.
    6AB, BT 5BB4B, 5A = 72 damage. With Transform 1+, replace 5A with 6A(A/B) for a mixup.
    CH 2B, 5BB(G), 4B = 59+ damage. Requires Transform 3+. If timed correctly, 4B restands with advantage.
    Damage listed at minimum Transform levels. Every subsequent level of Transform adds 2 damage to each hit.
    (You can also do 6BA after front-facing combo starters to end in BT)

    Leon
    CH 6B8B/3B, [5BB6B, (6)...] = Infinite. End with AAB, 66A before you reach a ledge. Replace 66A with 2B for less damage but better frames, and 2B with 6A for even less damage but slightly better frames.
    Leon's infinite is so easy it makes other combos pointless.

    Tomahawk
    CH 46B, 5BBB, 9A = 99 damage (very disadvantaged. End with 2A for 87 damage, but better frames).
    Instead of ending combos with an OTG, Tomahawk's 246A+B can be used as the opponent rises. Other holds can do this do, but Tomahawk's does a lot more damage, so it's worth a try. Doing so does ~91+ damage, depending on your opponent's mashing skill, but puts Tomahawk at disadvantage.

    Meiling
    CH 3B, 2A+BAAAA = 75 damage
    CH 1B, 5BB6BA = 74 damage
    CH 2B/3B, [5BBB(G), (6)...] = Infinite. Very challenging.

    Valerie
    CH 46B(G), 5BB(G), 5BB(G), 5BBBA4B(G), 5A = 101 damage, possibly more (or less). Incorporates her infinite since it's easier than Meiling's. Holding 6 seems to help. Lots of possible ender options, like 6A(A/B) mixups, 64B(G) bait, and so on.
    CH 2B/3BB/46B(G)/6AB/5BB6B, [BB(G), (6)...] = Infinite. Can be used the same way as above.

    Bob
    CH 2B, 5B(G), 5BBA, 5A = 55 damage (Delay 2B or you'll get Blasphemy Chop instead. End with a meaty 42B for 46 damage, but massive plus frames when they block)
    Bob sucks at combos. CH launches are hard for him, so just punish with Inashi or 62A+B for less of a headache.

    Ninja
    CH 5B, 632B, 46B, 1B, 6A, 214B = 98 damage. Might be able to squeeze in a 5A ender for 107 damage.

    Boro
    CH 3B, 44BBB, 9A = 88 damage (very disadvantaged. End with 5A for 66 damage, but better frames)
    Pretty much every launch will lead to 44BBB since it's so consistent.

    Ushi
    CH 2B, 4AAA, 5A = 54 damage
    CH 6B, 5BBBB = 70 damage
    Ushi also sucks at combos. Front-facing launchers (like A+B4B) can lead to a raw A+B three-way guess.

    Robert
    CH 2B, 3B(G), 5A = 32 damage. Be sure to delay the 2B or else you'll get Practice Left Punch by accident.
    Robert also sucks at combos. Landing B or 2B leads to throws or whatever anyways.

    Master
    44B, 5ABBBA = 79 damage. Very easy. Works after 46B, despite looking like it'd whiff.
    [412AAB(G)] = Infinite. Same deal as Ryuji.

    Joker
    44BB, 5BB6B3BA = 87 damage (the last hit may not combo, I'll have to double-check)

    I've omitted a bunch of launchers and Reels for the list, but the idea is that landing a CH/Reel, dodging a KD (or having them block yours), or dodging/blocking/whiff-punishing a Counter/Parry guarantees combos like the ones listed above.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • LemresLemres The Two G.O.A.T Joined: Posts: 1,600
    This is so awesome. Fighters' Destiny's concept of the health essentially being a stun bar and the point system has always been interesting to me. Really glad to see a proper breakdown of how the game is played.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    Not sure when I'll get around to full movelists, so I'm just going to list version differences (USA/JPN) here and finally make them public knowledge. For starters, JPN is an earlier revision (1.2433), but a later build date (March 23 1998). USA is a later revision (1.2495), but an earlier build date (Dec 4 1997). All non-JPN versions are based on USA.

    I'll be examining the JPN version, and I'll bring up Fighter Destiny 2 from time to time. Generally, every character has one different attack between versions, or minor changes in move properties.

    Obvious differences
    -Title is Fighting Cup.
    -Announcer is different (still speaks English, but not very well). He returns in FD2 (JPN), unlike the USA version.
    -Voices are different, save Robert. Some of the actors are reasonably well-known, but aren't individually credited.
    -Training mode options are differently named ('Hi' instead of 'High' etc.), very minor stuff.
    -Ninja is named Kaze. Boro is named Eyvokan.
    -Some of the sound effects are different, but nothing major.

    Differences of note
    -Abdul lacks 44BA in this version.
    -Abdul has a low-profiling mid on 1B. It's very awkward, but it returned in FD2 anyway.
    -Pierre' BT 5B is a slower, stronger high spin-kick instead of a modest mid uppercut. This is preserved in FD2.
    -Pierre's BT 8B keeps him BT in this version.
    -Leon lacks 6B(8B) in this version.
    -Leon has an extra followup to his jabs: BB4B produces a reasonably long high kick. Definitely not as good as 6B. 6B returned in FD2--this didn't.
    -Tomahawk has a followup to 4B in this version: 4BB, a slightly delayed but extremely damaging high kick.
    -Tomahawk has 44A, a goofy low that leaves him BT. It sucks.
    -Tomahawk lacks 28B, making his paper-thin Counter game nonexistent.
    -Strangely, none of the listed Tomahawk moves above returned in FD2.
    -Meiling's 4B(G) is a CH launcher in this version(!).
    -Valerie's 44B is waaaaaaaaaay different in this version. The startup is hella long, making it one of the worst Counters instead of one of the best. It's safer on hit, though. Sadly, this was retained for FD2.
    -Bob does not have 42B. Not having Buster Sword is pretty dramatic. It returned in FD2--as an unlockable skill.
    -Bob has an extra followup to AA: AAB is a crappy slow unsafe high. Next.
    -Ninja's face seems different somehow.
    -Ninja lacks 22B.
    -Ninja has a followup on 4BB: 4BB6B, a respectable mid kick. It returned in FD2.
    -The unlockable characters seem identical(?).

    Whether Fighter's Destiny or Fighting Cup formed the basis for Fighter Destiny 2, I really can't say.

    Unrelated trivia, since I don't know where I could put these in the guide:
    -Leon has a hidden just-frame(?) on 9BB8B. Normally the 8B (Sun Knuckle) is an unsafe Counter, but if you delay it just enough it becomes a slower, safe KD attack instead. It even has a different name (Sun Knuckle 2).
    -Masahiro Onoguchi must have had a thing for the sun or something, since Leon's 6B8B is called Combo Del Sol--the same name as that wrestler from Fighting Vipers 2.
    -Apparently hurtboxes are turned off or something during Inashi--if you dash into an opponent as they recover, you can pass right through them. If they hold G, you won't.
    -Bob has a Low Spin Kick on 6A (like Leon), but it seemingly only comes out during a dash. It's iffy, but I can't find any other way to pull it off.
    -Blocking makes you slide backwards a fraction, high guard moreso. Theoretically you could retreat by mashing G, but it's pointless.
    -Parries work while BT, hitboxes pending. Speaking of, Leon's parry has the best hitbox (Valerie's upgraded parry has the widest active window).
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited November 2015
    mowr wrote: »
    One day, I know that my life will depend on a FT5 in Fighter's Destiny. This thread will help me prepare.
    BzChoy wrote: »
    The one true way to settle a score is indeed with a poverty game such as Fighter's Destiny.

    Fighter's Destiny was destined for mystery game tournaments.

    Speaking of mysteries, I'll be double-checking to see if repeating Ryuji's 412AAB(G) is an infinite or not. It seems like it is, but I'll need my second pair of hands to test if buffering 2G stops it. If it doesn't, dang yo

    EDIT: Infinite. Similar to Abdul's 44BA in practice. Unlike Master, Ryuji doesn't have a (practical) Reel or a CH 3B, so I wouldn't expect it to be a common occurrence--and the spacing and slowdown can be fickle. Master's version is a little scarier thanks to his 46B and CH 3B. Guide updated to reflect this.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,650
    I have fond memories of this game. Thanks for the hard work!
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    Good stuff, obiiwan. I'll get around to adding some of this stuff eventually.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    When in Piyori, you can mash A+B to regain your life back more quickly.
    I never noticed this--I guess I was expecting it to be the held A+B or nothing. This'll help Bob/Master/Joker/Robert/Ushi a lot, since otherwise they're in Piyori for like three hours.
    EDIT: Added to the guide.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Every non-secret character can unlock 10 extra moves. One is obtained from clearing VS CPU mode and up to 8 moves total can be obtained by playing Master Mode. One extra move can be obtained in the 2 player Win or Lose mode.
    If I'm not mistaken, you can just get a couple Memory Paks and earn some moves in Master Challenge. Then you just go to Win Or Lose and sandbag to transfer them to another character. Rinse and repeat.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    What I think is important to note about Leon parry (Body Attack Throw) is that he's the only character that can parry not only punch attacks, but kicks too. If I'm not mistaken, that way he can parry all of the high/medium attacks if timed right.
    I assume you were testing this against Robert? His kicks hit really high. From what I can tell, parries are differentiated by their hitbox height and little else. Since Leon's is higher in his head, it's better at catching really tall highs (EDIT: Forgot to mention parries don't do shit to lows; added that too).
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Transform snip
    I toyed with adding similar info to the guide, but I figured the risk/reward from doing Special/Transform etc. was evident enough. If I ever get around to full movelists I'll add this stuff there.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Pierre Juggle combos:
    1. His Lie Face Down (LFD) 6 B is a really good tool. If you see a slow, high hitting Instant Down move coming your way, instead of dodging with 2, do a 22 to do LFD, then CH with 6B which can set up for B B B 6B and gets you BT from which you can do the basic 5 A for extra OTG damage (I would need a 2nd controller to test if the 5 A is unavoidable, but I'm pretty sure it's a guaranteed 14-24 HP OTG hit after the full juggle combo, much like Abdul's CH 3B 44BA unblockable.
    By Dodging slow attacks with 22 (LFD) you don't risk getting hit by mistiming the regular 2 dodge and all the high/medium attacks completely miss Pierre while LFD, yet after the LFD 6 B you have plenty of time to follow up with a combo.
    2. His 6 A B is a pretty good guaranteed anytime-launcher, but you have to hit the opponent with it's second hit, and the two hits do not combo. Thankfully, it has a pretty good reach and hits mid, while having a variation with 6 A A which hits low, so if opponents predicts that you'll do the later variation, he might want to go for Hirari and get launched.
    3. Third way to set up a juggle combo is to get into BT+LFD and CH with B from there. It has better reach than LFD 6 B and you can combo it into BT B B 6B or BT 2 B B.
    4. Fourth way to set up a juggle combo with Pierre is to hit with his Reel attack, Satellite Kick 6 4 B from BT stance, then launch with BT 6 B, OR manually turn towards facing the enemy and do the good old Vertical Ducking Upper (2 xx B )
    1. I never even considered this--I always thought it'd be too slow to both duck under a KD and CH punish it. If it isn't that's really helpful (EDIT: BT 5A OTGs don't combo, depending. They're slightly slower. 6BA is negative on hit, so it's more for the possible BT situation than anything).
    2. Yep. Worth noting that it's not really a scary mixup until Transform 1+, which beefs up the hitstun on 6A. Forces them to respect it more on hit.
    3. This seems decent, if slow. I wonder if 22 is fast enough to avoid Palo Special post-Inashi.
    4. Satellite Kick is fine, but being BT at a distance where it would connect uninterrupted seems unlikely.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Robert is an early prototype basic character model, dating before they even created real character models. Later on during the game development, the basic model that we now know as „Robert“ was used as a training dummy, but since they already animated some really slow basic moves exclusively for the dummy in order to give players a chance to react to most basic types of attacks in training mode, they decided to include him as a playable bonus character. Due to the game's high risk/reward nature, it was still possible to win matches using Robert, despite the fact that he's just a joke character.
    Citation? I'm always hunting for more pre-release info.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    In the German version, Boro is called Heidi, Valerie is called Sabine, Bob is called Pablo, Ushi is called Emil
    And in the French version Valerie is Gretel for some reason.

    For some more trivia, the character select looked slightly different early on (original source lost; retrieved on a lone Tripod site):
    http://cmaclellan.tripod.com/fighter.html
    3D portraits, Ryuji facing the wrong way...interesting that Leon was Italian here. Explains his stage in the Coliseum.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • AT_Ryo_SakazakiAT_Ryo_Sakazaki Joined: Posts: 366
    someone played Toy Fighter/Waffupu ?
    Is like a sequel (same development team) but unfortunately it was not converted for console, is only on Naomi

  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    someone played Toy Fighter/Waffupu ?
    Is like a sequel (same development team) but unfortunately it was not converted for console, is only on Naomi


    Oh, interesting. Pity I can't emulate Naomi well, or I'd try this out and see how it stacks up.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited November 2015
    Here's a very approximate health chart. Finding exact values was tricky when characters naturally regenerate at different speeds, but it's better than nothing.

    ~125 HP = Bob/Ushi/Robert/Master/Joker
    ~120 HP = Leon/Tomahawk
    ~100 HP = Ryuji/Abdul/Ninja/Boro
    ~85 HP = Meiling/Valerie
    ~80 HP = Pierre

    EDIT: Some noticeable changes occur in FD2. Kate (i.e. Boro) and Federico (i.e. Leon) have their health dropped somewhere between 85-100. Ziege (i.e. Tomahawk) has way more health than before.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • obiiwanobiiwan Joined: Posts: 7
    edited December 2015
    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken, you can just get a couple Memory Paks and earn some moves in Master Challenge. Then you just go to Win Or Lose and sandbag to transfer them to another character. Rinse and repeat.

    Yeah, back in the N64 era, I had an official Nintendo Memory Pak. I had another 4 in 1 third party Memory pak, so I unlocked all the skills for all the characters on the small Memory Pak, which I can't find now : ( I still have the 4 in 1, and there I have only Ryuji and Mei Ling saved with the red icon that would suggest that they have all the moves unlocked (I lost many skills for other characters on that one in order to unlock everything for the small MP). However, when I open the extra skill list with C buttons, there's only 9 moves. I remember that Mei Ling can have a 6 B A (similar to 6 BB, but she does a quick slide after the 6B) which is not listed eventhough she has 9 moves on the list (the VS CPU gained one does not show in that list, and yes I have a star icon too). I saw CPU performing that move yesterday a couple of times when I played VS CPU mode 8and no, it's not 6B followed by seperat input of 412 A). So I'm confused right now, are there 2 extra moves that can be unlocked in Win or Lose only, can save just one of them? Does the icon mean that you have every move unlocked, or is it just there to hint that she gained at least something in Win or Lose? I don't remember that aspect after all those years and I would need a 2nd controller to test that. I had 2, but one of them is not working anymore after all those years (the one that came with the console)
    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    I assume you were testing this against Robert? His kicks hit really high. From what I can tell, parries are differentiated by their hitbox height and little else. Since Leon's is higher in his head, it's better at catching really tall highs (EDIT: Forgot to mention parries don't do shit to lows; added that too).

    Not just against Robert, feel free to try it out in VS Cpu/Survival. Unlike other characters, he can really parry kicks, no other character can parry any kick-based attack, and Leon does have different animation for kick-parrys than the ones used for punch-parrys, which other characters don't have at all. You can see one of those animations here at 08:30 where Leon parries Meiling's 2 6 B Instant Down move:


    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    I never noticed this--I guess I was expecting it to be the held A+B or nothing. This'll help Bob/Master/Joker/Robert/Ushi a lot, since otherwise they're in Piyori for like three hours

    About the A+B command, I'm not entirely sure, but it seems that you can tech successful Counter attack moves by holding (maybe rapid press works too) A+B. usually, if counter attack hits successfully, you get visual indication and opponent gets KD-ed. But sometimes visual indications shows that it did connect correctly (small explosion-like effect with a special sound that comes with it), yet the defender barely manages to land on his feet and escapes a KD. I really need a second controller to test that, can't really tell the CPU to attack with Counters : D
    But after presuming that, I tried to button hold A+B after missed floaters/Instant downs, and I got hit by a successful Tomahawk counter, yet my character teched out, so I guess that it works. CPU gets to recover from a lot of counters on the highest difficulty.

    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    Citation? I'm always hunting for more pre-release info.

    Unfortunately, I don't have one. I remember reading that in one old German magazine that gave a really high score for this game and had the game mentioned a few issues later after the review. They were amazed by the character cast at that time, so they asked the developers about Ushi/Emil and about Robert since those type of characters seemed as a really weird fit for a fighting game. Ushi/Emil was obvious, because they used her for Rodeo mode which was a fun mode to develop, since the player can quickly get either KD/Counter KD, thrown down, thrown out of the ring, yet he can survive a lot by avoiding the attacks and get lucky with running away in Piyori to survive some more. So a Rodeo name for the mode was a good fit and they developed a character just for that. Since it was a fully functioning character with all the animation and characteristic moves, they wanted to give the player the possibility to play as that character too.
    The game didn't have good marketing whatsoever, but in that magazine it had a combination of something like this:
    http://www.gamespot.com/articles/fighter-destiny-2-character-information/1100-2584235/
    and Question/Answer format.
    Here, please read D-Dog's description that can be found in the article from the link. It's obvious that it's something that did not any gamespot journalist write, so it seems more like something that people who were responsible for the game's humble promotion, were sending to magazines and review sites which would publish that.
    About this D-Dog description, you can see that it really is a Dennis Rodman inspired character, they had the humble backstory covered for the characters, but those things were never handled in the game itself, just like it was the case with first Fighter's Destiny.
    „D-Dog (United States) - D-Dog is a fresh basketball star who was banned from the sport for extreme unnecessary roughness. His most vicious moves include the "Blasphemy Chop," the "Stomp," and the dreaded "Hammer Knuckle." D-Dog uses his height, speed, and power to slam-dunk his opponents.“

    That magazine also had some text about the game written in the same manner. Unfortunately, I don't have that magazine anymore. They even reviewed the sequel giving it a much lesser score, noting that it probably isn't worth importing if you already have the first game (the sequel never got released in Europe)
    And yeah, I'm in Europe, so I originally had the German version. I always liked the intro more in the German version, nicely selected terms, it somehow set up for a better fighting spirit tone.
    I found out about the USA version being faster just recently, and I was able to test it out on my Everdrive 64. When you play the game, it really feels a lot different.

    You can see a direct comparison of the two versions here (none of this videos belong to me):

    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    And in the French version Valerie is Gretel for some reason.

    Heh, localisation teams had a lot of freedom with the names it seems. I really like the German version's names, especially Pablo which is much better fitting than Bob. Heidi is the best known Swiss name on the planet, but at least you could instantly tell that she's female, unlike with Boro/Eyvokan. Nice found for early screen with Leon having an Italy flag. Explains the stage and Federico's nationality probably being based on that. I wonder what nationality was first considered for Bob, since it's kinda weird that he has a desert for his home court, I doubt that it was Brazil from the start.

    I hate the voices in the sequel, they are terrible. Replacement characters are bad too, especially the annoying Adriana with those La La La shouts and that irritating dance. I wish they kept Valerie, I always liked her voice the best in the first game, especially her shouts/screams when performing Instant Down and Counter attacks. Beside her voice, Abdul, Pierre and Joker had really good and fitting voices IMO.
    Abdul voice in the sequel is terrible though, maybe worst besides Adriana.
    Makes a scene like this even more silly:


    Regarding Fighter Destiny 2, does anyone have an Everdrive 64 save containing all moves for all the characters? I really don't feel like playing Fighter's arena, and I'll probably show the game to some friends when showing them the first game, just for some variety to keep things fresh.

    I did not know either that Toy Fighter was developed by the same team. Interesting, too bad that the Dreamcast version got canceled.
    Post edited by obiiwan on
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Yeah, back in the N64 era, I had an official Nintendo Memory Pak. I had another 4 in 1 third party Memory pak, so I unlocked all the skills for all the characters on the small Memory Pak, which I can't find now : ( I still have the 4 in 1, and there I have only Ryuji and Mei Ling saved with the red icon that would suggest that they have all the moves unlocked (I lost many skills for other characters on that one in order to unlock everything for the small MP). However, when I open the extra skill list with C buttons, there's only 9 moves. I remember that Mei Ling can have a 6 B A (similar to 6 BB, but she does a quick slide after the 6B) which is not listed eventhough she has 9 moves on the list (the VS CPU gained one does not show in that list, and yes I have a star icon too). I saw CPU performing that move yesterday a couple of times when I played VS CPU mode 8and no, it's not 6B followed by seperat input of 412 A). So I'm confused right now, are there 2 extra moves that can be unlocked in Win or Lose only, can save just one of them? Does the icon mean that you have every move unlocked, or is it just there to hint that she gained at least something in Win or Lose? I don't remember that aspect after all those years and I would need a 2nd controller to test that. I had 2, but one of them is not working anymore after all those years (the one that came with the console)
    I actually meant to inquire about oddities like this. I was certain the red Initiate tag indicated unlocking every move, but in your post about Pierre you mention 5BBB6B--which I don't have. I did get it in FD2, though, so I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible to unlock every attack, or if one move gets lost in the shuffle somewhere.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Not just against Robert, feel free to try it out in VS Cpu/Survival. Unlike other characters, he can really parry kicks, no other character can parry any kick-based attack, and Leon does have different animation for kick-parrys than the ones used for punch-parrys, which other characters don't have at all. You can see one of those animations here at 08:30 where Leon parries Meiling's 2 6 B Instant Down move
    I've tested other parries, like Valerie's--hers does work on kicks, but the hitbox for it is so low that it'll usually fail. I'll run some more tests.
    EDIT: I stand corrected. I could have sworn it worked on mids like Ninja or Master's AB, but evidently I was mistaken. One wonders why Leon has such a good parry, of all characters.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    About the A+B command, I'm not entirely sure, but it seems that you can tech successful Counter attack moves by holding (maybe rapid press works too) A+B. usually, if counter attack hits successfully, you get visual indication and opponent gets KD-ed. But sometimes visual indications shows that it did connect correctly (small explosion-like effect with a special sound that comes with it), yet the defender barely manages to land on his feet and escapes a KD. I really need a second controller to test that, can't really tell the CPU to attack with Counters : D
    But after presuming that, I tried to button hold A+B after missed floaters/Instant downs, and I got hit by a successful Tomahawk counter, yet my character teched out, so I guess that it works. CPU gets to recover from a lot of counters on the highest difficulty.
    I have struggled with Joker constantly slipping away from Counters in the past...I'll test this too. If it's true that's pretty neat. I've found similarly strange situations from things like Adbul's 466B, so it's worth checking.
    EDIT: It's legit! Figures that Counters are the only thing you can tech. I don't think it's 100% consistent--for the life of me I can't tech Tomahawk's CH 28B--but this is a great find, obiiwan.
    EDIT 2: The only ones I can't tech are Tomahawk's 28B, Ushi's 66B, and Valerie's 9B4B. Everything else seems fair game. This makes an interesting dynamic, since you're placed into some pretty severe disadvantage after a tech (depending on the Counter's recovery).
    EDIT 3: Parries qualify as an "attack" concerning Counters, so if you accidentally parry a Counter you're practically guaranteed to tech. Makes me wonder if that was intentional.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't have one. I remember reading that in one old German magazine that gave a really high score for this game and had the game mentioned a few issues later after the review.
    Good enough for me--from my research it seems like this game had a lot more coverage in Europe, so I'm willing to believe it. I'd have investigated further but my French isn't up to snuff these days.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    I wonder what nationality was first considered for Bob, since it's kinda weird that he has a desert for his home court, I doubt that it was Brazil from the start.
    Indeed. I can't help but think he was supposed to be American, and that they decided Tomahawk was enough. All his art assets indicate that his Player 2 outfit was to be his default--but maybe they switched his outfits for parity with the desert stage? There could be any number of reasons for that stage, though.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    Regarding Fighter Destiny 2, does anyone have an Everdrive 64 save containing all moves for all the characters? I really don't feel like playing Fighter's arena, and I'll probably show the game to some friends when showing them the first game, just for some variety to keep things fresh.
    Frankly, I wouldn't bother. Most characters gain, like, one new attack. Ziege's Throw Reserve command dash (66A+B) is interesting, but otherwise I haven't seen much of note.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Okay, updated the guide with the revised info on teching Counters and Leon's parry. I think I've run dry on weird things to find for now, so I'll try to get started on movelist overviews starting with Ryuji soon.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Ryuji's movelist has been added to the guide.

    I don't consider Ryuji especially good, so I tried my best to stay objective. It's really unusual that the game's Ryu clone is so aggressive in such a patient, deliberate game, and I wouldn't say it's to his betterment. At least he's got an infinite.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Abdul's movelist has been added to the guide.

    Abdul is a mixed bag, but he has a few tricks up his sleeve, and guaranteed unblockables from a safe mid is pretty sweet. He's got a serious problem with dodging otherwise--he has very few mids--so it's a good thing his 3B does what it does.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Pierre's movelist has been added to the guide.

    I've might've been selling this character short. He has a good throw game, is slippery in the right hands, and with smart use of Transform he can turn into a total beast. Still super frail and wimpy until then, though.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    Leon's movelist has been added to the guide.

    This character is so good.

    I'll probably add a section all about health values after the movelists and combos are done--I still haven't figured out a good way to determine the exact speeds and values of HP regeneration yet. I bring this up because Leon has a unique weakness not yet addressed: his health regen is awful. He has the same HP as Tomahawk, but he takes so much longer to heal. Combined with how Piyori works, Leon is probably the worst character to be dizzied with. Long health bar, poor recovery. Definitely doesn't downplay his strengths, but alongside his craptastic Specials he definitely crashes and burns when it comes to all things Piyori.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    I uploaded a game save of fighter destiny 2 with EVERYTHING unlocked on gameFAQs, but if that one doesnt work (it was renamed to work on a mempak) ask me for the save for use on an emulator.
    IM_Amazon wrote: »
    Frankly, I wouldn't bother. Most characters gain, like, one new attack. Ziege's Throw Reserve command dash (66A+B) is interesting, but otherwise I haven't seen much of note.

    Theres 8 moves per character to unlock (doesnt include the unlockable characters except for arcade mode's boss)
    Some of the move are extensions of existing moves, I say its a necessity to fully enjoy the game

    I also tried to rush fighter's arena trying to gain as little stats as possible. In fact, you dont really have to unlcok any move at all in fighters arena, just make sure to have your character complete it, and you can gain all your moves in the VS mode where you gamble unlockable moves.

    You can unlock 7 moves in fighter's arena, and the final move can be achieved in Vs "all or nothing" mode

  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    ferlanga wrote: »
    I uploaded a game save of fighter destiny 2 with EVERYTHING unlocked on gameFAQs, but if that one doesnt work (it was renamed to work on a mempak) ask me for the save for use on an emulator.
    Thanks for the up-and-up. The variable stats make me hesitant to call FD2 the competitive standard, though, even with the improved models and framerate.
    ferlanga wrote: »
    Some of the move are extensions of existing moves, I say its a necessity to fully enjoy the game
    Not disagreeing there, but I meant that--compared to FD's Master Challenge--the moves earned in Fighter's Arena are practically identical. D-Dog's gained skills are the same as Bob's except he unlocks 42B instead of starting with it. D-Dog's only new attack is Las Vegas Free Fall (62A+B 369A+B), which is a fairly minor improvement when the stats muddy the water.

    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Oh yes, FD2 is practically a carbon copy. I usually played 2 just because some character designs are more interesting and detailed.

    I did check one default character against its fighter's arena version (with minimal levelling) and the differences are incredibly small, practically nonexistant. You really need to play that mode for a long time.

    I guess one could make a gameshark code that give all moves without any stat alterations (that or giving everyone the same exact minimal stat increase)
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    ferlanga wrote: »
    I guess one could make a gameshark code that give all moves without any stat alterations (that or giving everyone the same exact minimal stat increase)
    Worth trying--Ninja's alternate in FD2 does look pretty sweet.

  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Still, you might want to compare a character in both the regular and buffed versions before spend your time trying anything, as there might be no differences at all when the stats are so low (seems theres no increase at all unless the stats reach a certain amount)

    BTW that guide looks awesome. Hope you publish it soon.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    ferlanga wrote: »
    Still, you might want to compare a character in both the regular and buffed versions before spend your time trying anything
    Will do once I've finished the guide. A few elements of FD2 still intrigue me.
    EDIT: My characters sent through Fighter's Arena actually deal less damage than vanilla counterparts--I assume you're expected to go through the arena multiple times to bring stats to par with default versions of characters. If so, that's quite annoying.

    Tomahawk's movelist has been added to the guide. Another awesome character. If you like Wolf or King he's got the most bonkers Giant Swing of all time.

    In other news, I can't believe I never investigated the Sound Test for abandoned stuff before. Turns out there's plenty! Every character, alongside their game clear clip, has a seemingly-unused laugh and a least one actual win quote. It seems like the characters were going to be a lot more talkative during development.

    Speaking of development, in the Sound Test, the announcer is hilariously dubbed the "Fighting D.J.", and he too has several unused exclamations (like the JPN version's "Exploding!"). Strangely, it sounds like he recorded two different takes for each Special quote ("Crush down! TERMINATED!", etc.), the second set basically identical(?), but they seemingly go unused. More strangely, this is in the JPN version too! Was the localization team that slavish in translating the JPN version, or are there more quotes in-game than what I'm noticing...?

    EDIT: Forgot the mention the foley effects for the stages--in the US version, any stage sound effect listed for a stage with no actual sounds in it (like [Highland 0], etc.) has some weird-sounding byte instead. In the JPN version, this is clearer--it's someone speaking in Japanese, and the US clip is a snipped version of this quote. I don't know Japanese, but it sounds like the guy says 'da me'. Something to the effect of "no sound here", maybe? It's clearly some form of placeholder, at any rate.

    The only unused stage effect I could find was the sound of laughter or shuffling tiles(?) for the Ninja Room. If it's tiles, that would make a lot of sense.

    EDIT II: It's laughing, all right. I happened to turn the music off and it's audible every once in a while. Who's supposed to be laughing, I wonder...?


    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Stats on fighter's arena dont add from previous runs. What you get in one run is the only thing you'll have. The key is to land very low numbers on the dice so you fight as much fights as possible, and play as good as possible to get an increase in your stats, also go for all the sherry panels, rank high on the Master fights, and pick the survival challenge at the end.

    I think your characters might deal less damage because failing some fights decrease your stats (I think its the Sherry fights that do it).
    You should just try with my save and see which ones have no changes. It took me the trough the span of 7 days to do fighter's arena with everyone, and nobody should go trough that.


    BTW i think "da me" in japanese is like saying "no" or "no way"
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    ferlanga wrote: »
    I think your characters might deal less damage because failing some fights decrease your stats (I think its the Sherry fights that do it).
    You should just try with my save and see which ones have no changes. It took me the trough the span of 7 days to do fighter's arena with everyone, and nobody should go trough that.
    I'll probably add a dedicated section on FD2 after the fact. Sounds like there's a lot going on in the Arena.

    Meiling's movelist has been added to the guide. She's pretty good if you don't mind the absence of throws.
    ferlanga wrote: »
    BTW i think "da me" in japanese is like saying "no" or "no way"
    Yeah, that's the only part I can make out. There's more to it, but it's all Greek to me.

    Also noticed a quirk in the buffer when a round starts--you can hold down single inputs (like 5B, 3A+B, etc.) to do them on the first possible frame. It's a bit like that first-attack glitch in MvC2.

  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Meiling is my favorite character in FD2, I never expected that but it happened, and shes really fun to play with. I really like her juggle combos.

    Her autocombo special might be long but at least it keeps the opponent in place while the attack is happening, unlike leon/federico's which is slow, short ranged and easy to dodge.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Valerie's movelist has been added to the guide. She's really strong character; her ledge game and number of delayable launchers/Counters is quite intimidating.

  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Bob's movelist has been added to the guide. Bob is my main. Bob is cool.
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Haha, cant believe bob got turned into dennis rodman in fd2, Also those garish pants.
    I didnt know Bob has the Palo Special. This game just got even cooler.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Ninja's movelist has been added to the guide. Tech machine, this guy.
    obiiwan wrote: »
    I remember that Mei Ling can have a 6 B A (similar to 6 BB, but she does a quick slide after the 6B) which is not listed eventhough she has 9 moves on the list (the VS CPU gained one does not show in that list, and yes I have a star icon too). I saw CPU performing that move yesterday a couple of times when I played VS CPU mode 8and no, it's not 6B followed by seperat input of 412 A). So I'm confused right now, are there 2 extra moves that can be unlocked in Win or Lose only, can save just one of them? Does the icon mean that you have every move unlocked, or is it just there to hint that she gained at least something in Win or Lose?
    Having gathered his unlockable attacks for FD2 I noticed a discrepancy between what I had and what a video from @AcidGlow had:


    At 0:41 he uses a Counter not in my movelist. There appears to be at least one 'floating' attack that can be unlocked, so two players with a Memory Pak may not have the "exact" same character. Interesting...
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Thats odd, I think i had that move when I played the game.
    Some characters have moves not listed anywhere, like federico being having to lay down on the floor like pierre. (i think it was something like tapping block or down thrice)

    Just in case, you dont get any new moves if the opponent lost all of his already. You need to fight another character with unlocked moves to leech from.
    You know you got every move in FD2 when on the char select screen you get a text saying "the initiate"
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    ferlanga wrote: »
    Just in case, you dont get any new moves if the opponent lost all of his already. You need to fight another character with unlocked moves to leech from.
    You know you got every move in FD2 when on the char select screen you get a text saying "the initiate"

    I'm curious about this because I have the Initiate tags. It's really uncommon to have wholesale unlisted attacks that aren't generic prone stances or whatever. I'll keep experimenting.
    EDIT: A second save file didn't change any unlocked skills, so an unlisted attack seems more likely.
    Post edited by IM_Amazon on
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    edited December 2015
    Boro's movelist has been added to the guide. Boro's pretty good, but I just can't get excited about her.

    I only briefly mention this in her entry, so to elaborate, you can extend throw ranges (and avoid whiff animations) in this game with crouch-dashes. I hesitate to call this anything approaching an OS or a kara-throw, but I'll summarize:

    Among the actions available during a crouch are throws. If you throw during a crouch, there's no whiff animation. If you press 3~A+B, you'll crouch-dash forward--slightly extending the throw's range--and duck any highs/duckable mids as well. Due to the wonky way throw hitboxes seem to work, if you can throw the enemy doing this, you will throw them. Otherwise you get an empty crouch-dash. I'll need to test this more to find its uses.
  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    Well, it sounds similar to extended throws from tekken so it is a thing. However it just sounds too good that it has no downsides at all.
  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Sometimes It Snows In April... Joined: Posts: 3,339
    I always loved FD2. Thought the vibe of it was cool, the various modes were fun and interesting, and the characters were pretty colorful. I also really loved the point system and how if there were two really good players playing each other, rounds could go on awhile rather than it just bejng whoever gets the first knockout. That was a brilliant move and one im kind of surprised no other fighter seems to have picked up, even as an alternate mode.

    So why is it that people talk more about FD than FD2? Is it the unlockable moves in FD2, and are there unlockable moves in FD as well?

    Either way, good looking out on the guide @IM_Amazon! Think I might go boot up FD2 and see how much of Fabien's tech I remember!
    "Money matches are against the law in Japan. They can never be good at Marvel." -4r5
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    DoctaMario wrote: »
    So why is it that people talk more about FD than FD2? Is it the unlockable moves in FD2, and are there unlockable moves in FD as well?

    I'd say it's a combination of being nearly identical to the original and having even goofier characters. It's all subjective, of course, but I think the original's characters are passable and the soundtrack has some high points. FD2, to me, lacks that. Joker compared to Cherry is no contest.

    As for the unlockable attacks, they're both similar in that regard, except the Fighter's Arena mode adds the stats and doesn't allow a player to duck out early. This makes sandbagging on Memory Paks take longer.

    I'd say the balance is worse--Fabien is apparently ridiculous--but that implies anyone played these games enough to judge that.

  • ferlangaferlanga Joined: Posts: 37
    edited December 2015
    Fabien is probably no stronger than the master or joker/cherry. He has high damage and high health but seems his attacks have some startup. Honestly the character itself is nothing to worry compared ot the supposed infinites (lows into launches, and believe dixon and pierre got some)

    I guess the dealbreaker is that is basically a slight upgrade but you need TWO controller paks to unlock all moves. People also didnt like when castlevania legacy of darkness was an updated version of a previous game too.
  • IM_AmazonIM_Amazon Joined: Posts: 150
    Ushi and Robert's movelists have been added to the guide. They're limited, but a lot of fun.

    Continuing on the extended throws, Ushi can't do them thanks to RFF overriding throw whiffs.
  • SlowCastSlowCast Joined: Posts: 2
    Hey, I play Fighting Cup, the JP version. From what I have known, counters that hit mid cannot be teched. I've tested it. I'm not sure if it's different in Fighter's Destiny, though
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