T. Hawk Thread.

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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Wow, I have no idea what's going on there. It looks like dive, but it doesn't knock down like dive does. And it sounds like jumping fierce (makes the fierce noise), but it sure doesn't look like it. Weird.
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  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It's definitely _NOT_ j. d+fierce. He hits with an animation similar to the Condor Dive, look closely. (04:11)
    If it was j. d+fierce his body would be horizontal
    errata06.gif

    I don't think it's the condor dive because he doesn't do the little pause he does before actually diving. Also this could be jump d+fierce, since they're playing a console version of ST the animation could of changed. I'm thinking this is the ps1 version, could be wrong though.
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  • ShinAkumaxShinAkumax Slick Vic Avatar Joined: Posts: 2,055
    That is definitely diving hawk animation in that video.

    However, it doesn't have startup like diving hawk, nor does it make the startup noise.

    I'm guessing... beta j.d+fierce? I don't think it's the same game we're all playing.
    This becomes that.
  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    yea it's definitely not the arcade version. You can tell by the stages, music, and the fact that it's set on inf. time. So it's one of the many console versions released. Probably the ps1 or 3do versions.
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  • Master BigodeMaster Bigode Touhoufag Joined: Posts: 879
    It's the 3DO version.
    ^Cool story bro.
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  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    random, but..

    try close s.mp aginst vega walldive and shoto air hurricanes!

    In the right situations that thing is golden. :tup:

    Close S.MP is very good against Vega Walldive, it's just that it's a proximity move it won't always work, having the risk of getting knocked down and possibly losing the match to walldives.
    I can't really find a good reason to use N. Hawk anymore. Just going back and forth, there's a huge difference in my ability to DP people out of shit with O. Hawk. I have a feeling that's why he was raised so much higher on Gian's tier list -- because it's wayyy easier getting knockdowns with O. Hawk, and his normals out prioritize stuff left and right. N. Hawk's super isn't even all that great. By the time you get enough meter, it's usually overkill.

    You can DP through fireballs a lot more consistently with O. Hawk as well, which means less time being somebody's zoning bitch.

    When I first picked up ST last year and tried out Hawk/O.Hawk, I automatically knew that O.Hawk could NOT have been low tier. He just had so much more stuff going for him than Hawk. I told people how I thought about how O.Hawk had to be atleast A/B tier and months later Gian posts up a tier list, having O.Hawk up in the ranks. I just can't see why it took so long for people to find out how good O.Hawk was and post it up. Of course he still has a ton of shitty matchups, but once he gets in it's usually game. Oh wait, that's like almost all the characters in ST.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    against vega walldives, best is to jump back jab. beats it EASY

    also, people seem to not believe me: o.hawk vs chun, chun cant do ANYTHING against o.hawks splash. she can jump straight up lk to TRADE, but thats all ive seen. She can try and get lucky with an air throw (its honestly happened maybe twice out of all the chuns ive played and it seems random.) other than that, upkicks get stuffed, flipkick gets stuffed, all jumpins and normals get stuffed. I dunno what she can do but whenever I play against any chun, i just use o.hawks splash over and over. It sounds scrubby, but she really cannot do a thing against it.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    @gridman
    Regarding that j.d+fierce vs. Chun-Li. Toutanki has used it in another video aswell, I could only find this one. The only way out for Chun seems to be a throw. I've used it a couple of times myself online, as O.Hawk.
  • KajoqKajoq Tenraiha Joined: Posts: 919
    Just as to not confuse anyone about his air d+FP... Thats definitely not the hitbox for it in that picture. I know he was using that pic more as an illustration, but the red hitbox extends a good way below the blue box and is a lot wider than that picture shows... At least according to the Yoga Book
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    against vega walldives, best is to jump back jab. beats it EASY

    also, people seem to not believe me: o.hawk vs chun, chun cant do ANYTHING against o.hawks splash. she can jump straight up lk to TRADE, but thats all ive seen. She can try and get lucky with an air throw (its honestly happened maybe twice out of all the chuns ive played and it seems random.) other than that, upkicks get stuffed, flipkick gets stuffed, all jumpins and normals get stuffed. I dunno what she can do but whenever I play against any chun, i just use o.hawks splash over and over. It sounds scrubby, but she really cannot do a thing against it.


    Yeah, if you watch Toutanki play VS Chun', he just spams that shit over and over.
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  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Alright good, im not crazy then. I knew she couldnt do shit against it, i just wanted to make sure.

    Why do i have more trouble with guile then I do with honda, dictator, or fucking even vega?
  • Eclipsing BinaryEclipsing Binary Heavenly Joined: Posts: 95
    I think I've seen Chun-Li use her close st. MK to stuff the splash. (Or maybe it was some other kick. It's the one where she kicks really high, so it looks like she's almost kneeing herself in the face.) Is this a possible solution to the splash spam, or is it too situational?
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Alright good, im not crazy then. I knew she couldnt do shit against it, i just wanted to make sure.

    Why do i have more trouble with guile then I do with honda, dictator, or fucking even vega?

    Guile just has the perfect set of moves and special moves to make it almost impossible. If you're facing a defensive Guile that doesn't throw out normals (except mandatory cr.forward), it's really hard unless you're a walk-up Typhoon wizard. Guile's cr.forward is such a pain in the ass, further getting a knockdown is almost impossible unless he sticks out something that you can hit with Rising Hawk.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Ive found against guile that using the 2nd hit of cr.rh with hawk is a good way to knock him down. Its just really an uphill battle because he can jab you out of hawk dive and keep booms to pressure you and anti air with (oddly enough) 2nd hit of cr.rh if he doesnt have a charge
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    O.Hawk - Normal attacks.
    st. Strong (far) will miss crouching: Blanka, Guile, Chun Li, Cammy and Dictator
    st. Roundhouse (far) will miss crouching Blanka, Cammy and Dictator
    st. Roundhouse (close) will miss crouching Blanka and Cammy.

    Keep this in mind before you throw out these attacks, I've eaten some Flashkicks etc. thinking I could poke crouching Guile with st. Strong, where it just misses him cleanly.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    I just got my Yoga Book Hyper today, to my disappointment there isn't much information about O.Hawk. I always knew that N.Hawk's cr.strong has a stray hitbox, it's even portrayed in the Yoga Book Hyper, but I don't know if O.Hawk's cr. strong has the same problem? ;\~

    UPDATE : Fortunately O.Hawk's cr. Strong doesn't have a stray hitbox like N.Hawk's.

    YBH:
    I just saw that O.Hawk's cr. forward has more range than N.Hawk's cr. forward, according to YBH. I tested it ingame and I'm pretty sure they have precisely the same range.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Any other players always getting Strong version of Typhoon even though you press and hold Fierce first? I.e. cr. jab, strong, fierce, b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b release fierce and strong. I get the strong version 90% of the time and it irritates me, since it often means I need to do one more successful safe-jump. Would it be feasible just sticking to fierce alone?
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Am I the only hawk player who does not have any problems playing vega, dictator, or o sagat? Vega wall dives are easily EASILY stuffed by jump back jab. If its on wakeup, reversal dp (o.hawk) and one knockdown and its almost always gg.

    Dictator - Reversal 360 scissors and improper spaced crushers. Block crossups and you're golden. One knockdown is all you need in this matchup.

    O.sagat - dunno. just never really had a problem. psychic dp's win this match.

    edit: i dont neg edge 360s although i should learn to. I usually just drum all 3 which sometimes results into kara st.fierce 360.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    I swear sometimes that it feels like Hawks DP randomly gets stored. I'll bet it's happened to a couple of the hard core Hawks out there too. Not to many active Hawks but can I get a post or to if it's happened to any of you befor ?
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  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    I swear sometimes that it feels like Hawks DP randomly gets stored. I'll bet it's happened to a couple of the hard core Hawks out there too. Not to many active Hawks but can I get a post or to if it's happened to any of you befor ?

    Yes and it always happens at the worst possible time.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    I'm beginning to use N.Hawk alot, not that he is that different from O.Hawk - but it's always nice being able to soften throws, especially vs. Chun and Dictator. I feel like N.Hawk's Rising Hawk is stored at times, especially when I want to do cr. short xx SUPER.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    I'm beginning to use N.Hawk alot, not that he is that different from O.Hawk - but it's always nice being able to soften throws, especially vs. Chun and Dictator. I feel like N.Hawk's Rising Hawk is stored at times, especially when I want to do cr. short xx SUPER.

    It happens to me all the time, I get a DP instead of the super but I think that is more me fucking up the 720.

    Also, ive been noticing lately that if I go for a DP and it gets stuffed and knocks me down (say I did a fierce DP) then I go for a reversal jab DP sometimes I get a fierce DP instead, even though I didnt do the piano input for it. Has that happened to anyone before or have an explanation for it?
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Bump.

    Is it just me or is it easier to negative edge Hawks 720 then his 360?
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Bump.

    Is it just me or is it easier to negative edge Hawks 720 then his 360?

    It's just the opposite for me. I do negative edge 360s all day long, but doing j.jab xx 720 is something I can't execute consistently. It requires my deepest concentration and warm-up before I can do cr.short xx 720 or j.jab, cr. jab xx 720 and I can only negative edge it from left side ;___;

    Lately I can't pull off 720s at all.... I need to ask Doctor Philth what I can do about it ;\~
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    I think I've seen Chun-Li use her close st. MK to stuff the splash. (Or maybe it was some other kick. It's the one where she kicks really high, so it looks like she's almost kneeing herself in the face.) Is this a possible solution to the splash spam, or is it too situational?



    I always use O.Chun against O.Hawk (and usually N.Hawk). O.Chun's SBK will beat and/or trade with O.Hawks splash when timed right. I usually use O.Chun against 'Geif for the same reason.
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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Am I the only one frustrated over "Falcon Beak" ~ b or f+jab? I never use it unless it's an accident (luckily it happens rarely), I feel Hawk would have an easier time walking in jab xx negative edge typhoon without having to risk striking the air w/ "Falcon Beak".
  • MasterFiendsMasterFiends Joined: Posts: 16
    try doing it this way, either way works depending on how you like doing your negative edge SPD's after ticks:

    1) walk in f + jab or short (hold the tick button along with MP,HP), see if it gets blocked (wait split second) then go for the tick SPD by doing it from defensive crouch and release all buttons in piano style.

    2) walk in f + jab or short (hold the tick button along with MP,HP), see if it gets block (wait split second) then go from f,d/f,d,d/b,b,up/b and release all 3 buttons at UP, to keep Hawk grounded and get the tick SPD.

    Problem with method 2 is your not left safe if they reverse it, as your not in block.

    Although i use something similar to method 2 for the walk in SPD without any pokes which is start from forward then go counter clockwise to UP but keep Hawk grounded with drumming all 3 punch buttons to get it out. But in this situation I do the walk in SPD if they whiff a move like DP and have to use press-press method instead of press-release the punches.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    snip

    Thanks for the clarification, but I've been playing Hawk for a pretty long time. Doing safe negative edges is not of my concern (Only 720 negative edge), I'd rather debate/discuss the use of "Falcon Beak" or the lack thereof with other Hawk players. I hate the fact that walk-in tick xx Typhoons has to be done f~N~jab xx Typhoon, if only Falcon Beak was b or f + fierce ;\~

    There's no reason to use the second method you mentioned, _always_ take advantage of Hawk's lack of a SPD whiff-animation.

    The method you mentioned is a pretty good bet, I do st. jab or st. short to buffer then press and hold strong and fierce walk-in f, d/f, d, d/b, b, u/b, u release strong~fierce.
    The Japanese Hawk players don't use negative edge walk-in from what I've seen, Inomata just walks in and SPD's w/ fierce, you can see a few pixels of animation of Hawk's close st.fierce cancelled into SPD.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Regarding setting up N.Hawk's SUPER.
    Some time ago, the only possibility for me to setup his SUPER was j.jab xx SUPER. However I recently got accustomed to the timing of d/b + jab, b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b + jab, press strong and fierce b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b release fierce, strong. I got trouble combo'ing 2 x cr. jab xx SUPER after cross-up forward. I can only combo st. forward after the cross-up consistently but xx SUPER afterwards is killing me ;\~

    Any of you guys got any tips concerning j.jab, d/b, b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b + jab, press strong and fierce b, u/b, u, u/f, f, d/f, d, d/b release fierce, strong ? I can't get the j.jab and cr. jab to combo, maybe 1 out of 10.....
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Even though HD Remix is out, I'm not into R.Hawk at all. Still playing ST.
    Why did they decide to nerf N.Hawk that much? I'm really curious, is O.Hawk really that beastly? Yeah I've compared them in training mode and O.Hawk is N.Hawk on steroids, but does it really justify removing all that goodness when he departed from Super to ST? I thought it was a little too rough.....

    Your thoughts?
  • MasterFiendsMasterFiends Joined: Posts: 16
    Hey Rikidozan,

    wow your using an incredibly difficult way of performing his super from a tick, no wonder you're not getting it consistently.

    Try doing it this way (blending into super method), which i found gets me very consistent results:

    1) cr.jab or cr.short xx super:

    you knockdown opponent in corner and have super, walk-in then immediately move joystick in down position then begin rotating to d/b motion, then press jab (hold), then shortly after press strong and fierce (hold buttons). Whip that joystick around for a complete 720 or little more ending at d/b then release all punch buttons.

    You should see much more consistent results this way, not only that you can use this method to tag cr.jab xx super after a safe jump jab.

    side note: if you want to be slightly daring but want even more consistency, do a 540 super ending at up then release punches/quickly drum punches. Not negative edge safe but you'll get that super 99%, plus it is one of the most high priority supers so you'll most likely land it.

    2)safe j.jab xx super (this is wonderful):

    begin at u/f motion in air and rotate joystick to d/b press jab (hold), then shortly after press strong and fierce (hold). You'll be doing the 540 deg super as you want to end at d/b release all punches, since you started at u/f (remember you blended the j.jab into super) otherwise 720 ends at u/f again.

    What you'll see happen is hawk crouch when landing, then stand up and begin the super.

    Thats basically what i do, i love the safe j.jab xx super since its the easiest to do, very powerful and fast. :woot:
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    snip

    Thanks dude. However each to his own. I'd rather do a complete 360 then d/b and do another 360 ending in d/b + release fierce~strong. I can't do tick xx 720 consistently, so I'd rather buffer in the first 360.

    Method 2)
    Safe-jump j.jab xx negative edge SUPER is a must to know as a N.Hawk player.
    The problem I wrote about is combo'ing j.jab -> cr.jab while buffering in the SUPER.
  • MasterFiendsMasterFiends Joined: Posts: 16
    Even though HD Remix is out, I'm not into R.Hawk at all. Still playing ST.
    Why did they decide to nerf N.Hawk that much? I'm really curious, is O.Hawk really that beastly? Yeah I've compared them in training mode and O.Hawk is N.Hawk on steroids, but does it really justify removing all that goodness when he departed from Super to ST? I thought it was a little too rough.....

    Your thoughts?

    Off the top of my head if he was allowed to keep O.Hawk's st.MP, st.RH, body splash, cr.LP, LP, better DP, cr.MK and cr.RH while retaining N.Hawk's ability to tech throw and super. Then he would automatically for me be in the upper tier list with Ryu, Chun and Deejay, top tier belonging to O.Sagat, Dhalsim, Boxer and Claw.

    However adding the very abuseable throw loops and the above properties he would seriously be a very nasty character to contend with, which is why i think N.Hawk is somewhat justified.

    Remixed Hawk is retarded, ST hawk players put in all this hard work and now bums can walk in Typhoon, stand super and hawk dive with less thinking.

    Honestly whenever I play Remixed Hawk I feel my real Hawk skills getting shitter, plus I hate the whiff animation on the Typhoon, i feel it happens at random times when I should have guaranteed throw.

    HD remix doesn't come close to classic super turbo.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Off the top of my head if he was allowed to keep O.Hawk's st.MP, st.RH, body splash, cr.LP, LP, better DP, cr.MK and cr.RH while retaining N.Hawk's ability to tech throw and super. Then he would automatically for me be in the upper tier list with Ryu, Chun and Deejay, top tier belonging to O.Sagat, Dhalsim, Boxer and Claw.

    However adding the very abuseable throw loops and the above properties he would seriously be a very nasty character to contend with, which is why i think N.Hawk is somewhat justified.

    Remixed Hawk is retarded, ST hawk players put in all this hard work and now bums can walk in Typhoon, stand super and hawk dive with less thinking.

    Honestly whenever I play Remixed Hawk I feel my real Hawk skills getting shitter, plus I hate the whiff animation on the Typhoon, i feel it happens at random times when I should have guaranteed throw.

    HD remix doesn't come close to classic super turbo.

    Its because Sirlin never actually played a really good Hawk player (aka any japanese Hawk player). All he has is theories about Hawk, hence why HDR Hawk is the way he is.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    ST hawk players put in all this hard work and now bums can walk in Typhoon, stand super and hawk dive
    Oooo, well la dee da, Mr. Fancypants. Let those bums eat cake, am I right?
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  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    Thanks for the replies guys. My question is only concerning ST not HD Remix. The question still stands if Hawk's transition from Super to ST really needed all that nerfing, he is highest tier of the bottom tiers, I'll agree on that.
  • gridmangridman Drill Joined: Posts: 3,221
    Its because Sirlin never actually played a really good Hawk player (aka any japanese Hawk player). All he has is theories about Hawk, hence why HDR Hawk is the way he is.

    Most likely this. Good points to whoever you quoted (multiquote never works for me..)
  • JigglyNorrisJigglyNorris The Low Tier Hero Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I mained Hawk in ST, and I personally enjoy him a lot more in HD.
  • RikidozanRikidozan IRL Muscle Bomber Joined: Posts: 313
    How come Zangief is ranked higher than T.Hawk is, tier-wise? I don't understand why they rank Zangief higher than T.Hawk, any ideas?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    How come Zangief is ranked higher than T.Hawk is, tier-wise? I don't understand why they rank Zangief higher than T.Hawk, any ideas?

    Grab range, mix-ups are generally safer, pokes are outstanding, lariat, running grab, green hand, he can grab from a crouching position. All of this also making it easier for him to get in. He all around doesn't have as many really poor match-ups like Hawk does but massacres the same characters as Hawk in ST.

    Also if you don't get in with Gief, he has other things( cr.rh poke that hurts and has great priority) that he can use to win a match.

    There's more to this from a character specific standpoint also, but I'm not gonna type all of that out right now :tup:
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