Nash Combo/Tech Thread

jchensorjchensor Salty ChenJoined: Posts: 1,934 admin
edited March 2016 in Nash
Want to know what the best punish or Crush Counter combo <CHARACTER> has? Any character-specific combos to maximize your damage? What’s the best no-meter combo you can do? Farthest corner carry? All of these questions can be answered here.

Also, have a crazy set-up to share? A new mix-up that you want others to test out? Share all your best tech as well!

=== NOTE: If you want to become the OP for this thread so you can maintain the top post to aggregate the thread's information here, contact me via the SRK messaging system and I will be able to convert you to become the OP for this thread. ===
Post edited by jchensor on
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

"Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

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Comments

  • EmptyXzeroEmptyXzero Joined: Posts: 26
    I want to better understand the use of 4mk. Does the same damage as s.mp and leaves you at 0 adv on block instead of 3. I find it more awkward to cancel from it as well. Only major difference I can find is the startup is 1 frame faster so maybe just an easier link.
  • str[e]akstr[e]ak Friendly Neighborhood Sneaker Ninja Joined: Posts: 2,885
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    I want to better understand the use of 4mk. Does the same damage as s.mp and leaves you at 0 adv on block instead of 3. I find it more awkward to cancel from it as well. Only major difference I can find is the startup is 1 frame faster so maybe just an easier link.

    I think it has more hit stun and forces stand. The greater hit stun allows for combos into Tragedy Assault.

    I also started working on documenting some knockdown situations here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yt0bf66BYV1jomWMSIK5WjtF3SXZYT5oldz1OhFjngU/edit#gid=390443733
    I enter tournaments as Real Life Bonus Stage:
    Twitter: @eddyRLBS
    YouTube: akaRLBS
    Twitch: sneakerninja



  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    edited February 2016
    Unless the frame data was altered in the retail version, st.MP is neutral on block, not +3.

    Regarding that oki spreadsheet, I'm fairly sure that it's possible to back roll after a Tragedy Assault, unless they altered its properties. IIRC, only knockdowns that the defender can't back roll are CC sweeps, CAs that result in a HKD, and throws.

    EDIT: Here are some frame traps. This list was made with the Beta 4 frame data so some strings might have larger or smaller gaps. Someone with the game will have to test them. On my phone right now so excuse the shitty formatting. Will correct it when I'm back home.
    Nash Blockstring Gaps

    2 Frame Gap - Light Starters
    St.LP, b.MK
    St.LK, b.MK


    2 Frame Gap - Medium Starters
    Cr.MP, cr.LP

    2 Frame Gap - Heavy Starters
    Cr.HP, b.MK
    Cr.HP, st.LP

    2 Frame Gap - Special Starters
    EX Sonic Boom, st.LP
    EX Sonic Boom, cr.LP
    EX Sonic Boom, st.LK
    EX Sonic Boom, cr.LK


    3 Frame Gap - Light Starters
    St.LP, cr.MP
    St.LP, st.MP
    Cr.LP, b.MK
    St.LK, cr.MP
    St.LK, st.MP


    3 Frame Gap - Medium Starters
    cr.MP, b.MK

    3 Frame Gap - Heavy Starters
    Cr.HP, st.MP
    Cr.HP, cr.MP

    3 Frame Gap - Special Starters
    Moonsault Scythe, st.LP
    Moonsault Scythe, cr.LP
    Moonsault Scythe, st.LK
    Moonsault Scythe, cr.LK
    EX Sonic Boom, b.MK


    4 Frame Gap Light Starters
    St.LP, st.HP
    Cr.LP, st.MP
    Cr.LP, cr.MP
    Cr.LK, b.MK
    St.LK, st.HP

    4 Frame Gap Medium Starters
    Cr.MP, st.MP
    Cr.MP, cr.MP

    4 Frame Gap Heavy Starters
    Cr.HP, st.MP
    Cr.HP, cr.MP

    4 Frame Gap Special Starters
    EX Sonic Boom, st.MP
    EX Sonic Boom, cr.MP
    Moonsault Scythe, b.MK
    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • notalnotal Joined: Posts: 30
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    Punish:

    S.hp, L.MS, s.lp s.mp TC ~ H.SS

    What is TC? Target Combo? Which one?
  • EmptyXzeroEmptyXzero Joined: Posts: 26
    notal wrote: »
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    Punish:

    S.hp, L.MS, s.lp s.mp TC ~ H.SS

    What is TC? Target Combo? Which one?

    Yes, sorry I probably should have wrote what number target combo it was. Basically it should read do the target combo that is performed by pressing s.lp followed by s.mp

  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    I've been looking at a Nash guide (sfgod's) and it talks about the pleasures of confirming stlk stmk TC or c.lk into stlp stmp TC. I've tried these for some time now and the MP has whiffed every time. Am I messing up that badly or was this changed recently?
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    I wouldn't say recently but a few patches ago st.LP was changed to push back further so now the older combo's that you mentioned don't work anymore.
  • notalnotal Joined: Posts: 30
    edited February 2016
    Really easy Jump in combo.

    J.Mk > S.Hp > M.SS xx CA

    Edit: Typed M.MS instead of M.SS!
    Post edited by notal on
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    I don't think you mean MS (Moonsault) but SS (Sonic Scythe).
  • ScienceScience Joined: Posts: 26
    Zachara wrote: »
    I don't think you mean MS (Moonsault) but SS (Sonic Scythe).

    I agree. Moonsault Slash will cross-up the opponent and will not connect at this range. However, I can combo into Sonic Scythe.
    "For Science."
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,693
    edited February 2016
    I watched Soul-Stealer Nash , but I'm having trouble with comboing

    CH 5hp 236kk 2mp 4mk 623kk
    CH 5hp 236kk 5hp 623pp

    Basically, after 236kk my next move seems to be way too slow/out of range.

    Is it still possible to combo after 236kk ? (on PC)
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    Those combos are bugged and only work in the cracked Beta. As far as I know, you can only follow up CC st.HP xx EX Moonsault Slash with a single medium strength normal, not two. It's only +6 on hit so it's impossible to link st.HP, which starts up in 7 frames. After a raw EX Moonsault Slash, it's possible to link cr.MP->st.MP but you're unlikely to land that combo against a decent opponent.
    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,693
    Thanks!

    Ok, so combos that work:

    CH 5hp 236kk 4mk 623lp 343dmg/465stun
    CH 5hp 236kk 2mp 623lp 343dmg/465stun
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • MikeandIke12MikeandIke12 Average player. Joined: Posts: 36
    Nash Crush Counter Combos! Make sure Annotations are on for the combo notations
  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    edited February 2016
    Almost all of those combos are not optimized.

    After a CC f.HP your best meterless followup is HP Tragedy Assault, not MP Tragedy Assault. With full bar, you can do CC f.HP, MK Sonic Scythe xx CA; there's no need to go directly into CA.

    After a guaranteed CC st.HP you should always go to into Moonsault Slash, not Sonic Boom. Unless you get your CC st.HP xx LK Moonsault Slash from very far away there's no need to end with st.LP xx LK Sonic Scythe. You should always be in range for st.LP xx st.MP xx HK Sonic Scythe.

    Regarding CC st.HP xx EX Moonsault Slash, if you have V-Trigger, you should be going into st.MP xx LP Sonic Boom xx f.VT, nj.HP, cr.HP->st.MP xx HK Sonic Scythe (427 dmg, 670 stun), not st.MP xx HK Sonic Scythe xx f.VT, j,HK, EX Sonic Scythe. The extra damage you get from the latter combo (434 total for an extra 7 damage) is not worth the extra bar unless it will kill and the oki and stun (620) are far inferior.
    Post edited by Heavy_Mental on
    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • otisjenkinsotisjenkins Joined: Posts: 16
    edited February 2016
    Unlimited wrote: »
    Thanks for the combo summary, and I hate to be that guy so early in the thread but:
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    6Hp, EX.TA, 6 V.Trigger, nj.Hk, M.SS xx CA
    Is unrealistic; EX.TA combo into CA (4 bars)

    Some other combos you could add:

    Confirms:
    cr.MP, b+MK xx LP TA

    Punish:
    cr.HP, st.MP xx EX SB (1 hit) xx f+Vtrigger into followups

    Any combo ending in HK SS can be V-trigger cancelled into:
    HK SS xx vtrigger, j.HK, LK/EX SS
    HK SS xx vtrigger, j.HK, CA

    (will add if I get more)

    whats the timing for vtriggering after HK SS?
    edit: never mind figured it out. have to vtrigger right when move connects
  • notalnotal Joined: Posts: 30
    Science wrote: »
    Zachara wrote: »
    I don't think you mean MS (Moonsault) but SS (Sonic Scythe).

    I agree. Moonsault Slash will cross-up the opponent and will not connect at this range. However, I can combo into Sonic Scythe.
    Zachara wrote: »
    I don't think you mean MS (Moonsault) but SS (Sonic Scythe).

    You're both right, it has been fixed. My apologies. It's what I initially meant to type, just spaced out haha.
  • UnlimitedUnlimited V has come to. Joined: Posts: 196
    Just updated my post at the top of this page with my more used combos. If there is anything I'm not optimizing or anything I can improve, please let me know and I'll be sure to update it :)
    SSF4: Balrog, Chun li
    SFV: Necalli, Balrog
    KoF XIV: Luong/Terry/Mature
  • notalnotal Joined: Posts: 30
    Any way we can get an OP who will actually organize this information? It's just a huge cluster of confusing information right now with changing annotations.

    Thaanks.
  • shadokenshadoken Joined: Posts: 564
    notal wrote: »
    Any way we can get an OP who will actually organize this information? It's just a huge cluster of confusing information right now with changing annotations.

    Thaanks.

    I second this. Should we just Remake the thread?
  • ScienceScience Joined: Posts: 26
    edited February 2016
    I don't want to insult the OP, I believe that he has made an effort to organize the information. However, as I've stated before: we need to have an organized thread, with a single notation that structures itself in a way that we can navigate without "fishing" for information.

    OP, if you would like to give it a try and organize it all into something more formal, please go ahead. I dont think anyone wants to hijack the thread, but we do need structure.

    We need videos, too to go along with the text to further expound on the tech.
    "For Science."
  • PrinceVegetaPrinceVegeta Joined: Posts: 15
    edited February 2016
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    Punish:

    C.hp, s.mp ~ H.SS

    C.hp, s.mp ~ M.SS xx CA

    S.mp ~ M.SB, 6 V.Trigger, nj.hp, c.hp, s.mp ~ H.SS

    Cmp, st.mp ~ L.SB, 6 V.Trigger, nj.hp, c.hp, s.mp ~ M.SS xx CA

    Confirms:

    c.lk, s.lp ~ L.SS/EX.SS

    C.lk, c.lp ~ EX.SB x2, 6 V. Trigger, nj.hp, c.hp, s.mp ~ H.SS

    C.mp, s.mp ~ SS

    Crush counter S.HP:

    S.hp, L.MS, s.lp s.mp TC ~ H.SS

    S.hp, L.MS, lp mp TC ~ M.SS xx CA

    S.hp, EX.MS, s.mp ~ M.SB, 6 V.Trigger, nj.Hp, c.hp, s.mp ~ H.SS

    Crush Counter 6HP:

    6Hp, M.SS xx CA

    6Hp, TA

    6Hp, 6 V.Trigger, nj.hp, c.hp, s.mp ~H.SS

    6Hp, EX.TA, 6 V.Trigger, nj.Hk, M.SS xx CA

    Frame Trap notes:

    S.lk and s.mp have +3 frame advantage making them great tools for counter hit setups.. Many times if you are rewarded a CH you can link a third normal i.e.:

    Cr.lp, s.lp s.mp TC will connect on CH
    Cr.lp, s.lk, s.mp etc

    Frame trap current favorites:

    S.mp, s.mp
    S.lk, s.mp
    C.hp, s.mp
    C.lp, s.lk
    S.lk, s.hp


    What do 6HP and 6 V.Trigger mean?

    EDIT: Solved. Thanks, @otisjenkins
    Post edited by PrinceVegeta on
  • str[e]akstr[e]ak Friendly Neighborhood Sneaker Ninja Joined: Posts: 2,885
    This was listed under the WiP tab in my Google document above, but since someone asked for videos:


    I enter tournaments as Real Life Bonus Stage:
    Twitter: @eddyRLBS
    YouTube: akaRLBS
    Twitch: sneakerninja



  • MateriaMateria Joined: Posts: 118
    str[e]ak wrote: »
    This was listed under the WiP tab in my Google document above, but since someone asked for videos:


    Good stuff, do you have a link to your wip document please?
  • str[e]akstr[e]ak Friendly Neighborhood Sneaker Ninja Joined: Posts: 2,885
    Materia wrote: »
    Good stuff, do you have a link to your wip document please?

    It's in my above post (earlier in the thread), but here it is again:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yt0bf66BYV1jomWMSIK5WjtF3SXZYT5oldz1OhFjngU/edit#gid=390443733
    I enter tournaments as Real Life Bonus Stage:
    Twitter: @eddyRLBS
    YouTube: akaRLBS
    Twitch: sneakerninja



  • GuiverGuiver CEO, Guiver Games Joined: Posts: 34
    Half decent tick throw setup using V-Trigger:

    (When near corner)

    cr.MP, s.MP/s.B+MK, h.SS, [VT <-], nj.HK, bazooka knee, throw
    Never try to live decently - not unless you are willing to open your life to tragedy and sadness. Live like a beast, and no event, no matter how harrowing, will ever be able to move you. - Jova Tarkin
  • otisjenkinsotisjenkins Joined: Posts: 16
    @PrinceVegeta 6HP means foward HP and 6 vtrigger means foward vtrigger. when you see a number before a button it is the numerical version of a d pad/joystick direction. so if you need help understanding it, just look at the numberpad on a laptop and use that as a frame of reference. 8 is up, 2 is down, 6 is forward/back depending on direction character is facing, 4 is back/forward depending on character facing direction, and 5 is neutral.
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    edited February 2016
    Guiver wrote: »
    Half decent tick throw setup using V-Trigger:

    (When near corner)

    cr.MP, s.MP/s.B+MK, h.SS, [VT <-], nj.HK, bazooka knee, throw

    This is actually possible anywhere on the screen. As long as you use 6~V-Trigger you go behind them so you don't have to worry about them being too far away.
    I tend to do this a lot but after it's been seen once or twice the throw will get teched every time so you can go for an overhead or take a step back then punish their whiffed throw.
    Worst part about this is that I get caught up in doing it that I don't go for the damage when I could potentially win because I'm in the reset state of mind.


    @str[e]ak - That's some slick stuff. Looking through your doc - I love the use of f+HK. I've been trying to compile some stuff together to make a video about it since I rate it as one of his best normals and I don't see it used that often.


    EDIT - Removed accidental part of post.
    Post edited by Zachara on
  • UnlimitedUnlimited V has come to. Joined: Posts: 196
    str[e]ak wrote: »
    EmptyXzero wrote: »
    I want to better understand the use of 4mk. Does the same damage as s.mp and leaves you at 0 adv on block instead of 3. I find it more awkward to cancel from it as well. Only major difference I can find is the startup is 1 frame faster so maybe just an easier link.

    I think it has more hit stun and forces stand. The greater hit stun allows for combos into Tragedy Assault.

    In addition to the combo into TA, it has less startup than st.MP (5f startup, compared to st.MP's 6f). This is better for frametraps from cr.MP which leaves you at +2 on block. From this, the b.MK would hit on the 3rd frame after the opponent recovers from cr.MP's blockstun and if you time it right, it would therefore beat out any normals your opponent may throw out (remember in SFV, Medium normals are prioritized over Light normals so even 3f jabs will lose out to b.MK).


    Also it has less pushback than st.MP. In the corner, I've found that you can do:
    cr.MP, b.MK xx EX SB (1hit), cr.LP xx LK/EX SS

    This is not possible with cr.MP, st.MP starter.


    Assuming the prima guide frama data is right, at that range, EX Sonic Boom's first hit is +2 on block. You can combine that two points I've stated above and use a frame trap in the corner if they happen to block the cr.MP, b.MK frametrap by cancelling b.MK into 1 hit of EX Sonic Boom (true blockstring from b.MK and leaves you at +2) and going into another b.MK frame trap. I hope my wording is not too confusing here XD
    SSF4: Balrog, Chun li
    SFV: Necalli, Balrog
    KoF XIV: Luong/Terry/Mature
  • NovastormNovastorm Joined: Posts: 462
    Probably going to sound like a dick but it wouldn't be the first time so here goes anyway.

    First of all, since when is this dustloop? Using numbers to indicate directions is annoying as hell IMO, and i've not seen it in other chararcter forums (granted i haven't visited every single one yet) so let's just keep with the format please.

    Secondly, if OP doesn't update the first post might as well make a new one, else we're still forced to wade through pages of crap to find anything worthwhile.

    Thirdly, half-assed info is just clutter and adds to wading through pages of crap as mentioned in my second point :
    Zachara wrote: »
    Can't test right now but I'm fairly sure that -
    CC st.HP xx Ex-MS, cr.MP xx MK SS xx CA

    You're fairly sure that that combo.....what? Even if we had an OP who updated the OP if you're not finishing your sentence and explaining what the combo is useful for it wouldn't make it in the OP anyway.

    BTW I'm fairly sure that one works only in training mode because you used 1 meter for EX MS and one cr.MP xx MK SS isn't going to give you back full super to cancel it into CA.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Heavy_MentalHeavy_Mental Fueled by caffeine and salt. Joined: Posts: 1,236
    James Chen is the guy who created the threads and he's posted generic threads for each of the character discussion subforums. No way he'll be updating them. It's best we create new ones ourselves.
    “In the long run men hit only what they aim for. Therefore though they should fail immediately, they had better aim at something high." - Henry David Thoreau
  • UnlimitedUnlimited V has come to. Joined: Posts: 196
    I like James Chen, enjoy his commentary, and appreciate all hes done for the FGC, but he's made quite a mess on the forums it seems
    SSF4: Balrog, Chun li
    SFV: Necalli, Balrog
    KoF XIV: Luong/Terry/Mature
  • SnatcherSnatcher The True Enemy Joined: Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 2016
    Sorry if I missed this, but here's my best finding for crush stand fierce with no meter with VT.

    CC Fierce, microwalk fierce xx teleport behind VT, jump fierce, low fierce, stand strong xx HK Scythe. Does 389 damage and 660 stun if memory serves, does 551/630 if you end with MK Scythe xx super, but I don't consider this the optimal route if you land crush with meter.

    Edit: mad typos.
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 884
    Novastorm wrote: »
    Probably going to sound like a dick but it wouldn't be the first time so here goes anyway.

    First of all, since when is this dustloop? Using numbers to indicate directions is annoying as hell IMO, and i've not seen it in other chararcter forums (granted i haven't visited every single one yet) so let's just keep with the format please.

    Secondly, if OP doesn't update the first post might as well make a new one, else we're still forced to wade through pages of crap to find anything worthwhile.

    Thirdly, half-assed info is just clutter and adds to wading through pages of crap as mentioned in my second point :
    Zachara wrote: »
    Can't test right now but I'm fairly sure that -
    CC st.HP xx Ex-MS, cr.MP xx MK SS xx CA

    You're fairly sure that that combo.....what? Even if we had an OP who updated the OP if you're not finishing your sentence and explaining what the combo is useful for it wouldn't make it in the OP anyway.

    BTW I'm fairly sure that one works only in training mode because you used 1 meter for EX MS and one cr.MP xx MK SS isn't going to give you back full super to cancel it into CA.

    Just my 2 cents.

    You are correct - That must've been draft-saved from before because I didn't even know that was written there. Most likely wrote it out and then realised it didn't work (because painfully obvious use of 4 meters is painfully obvious) and deleted it but it was saved.

    Now in relation to your other points -

    People will use whatever notation they're familiar with. That's just how it is. If you don't like it then you can always quote them and rewrite it out in the "Real" way. If you can read it then what's the problem?

    Anyone who has been around for at least a while on here knew that all of the threads that James Chen made were not going to get updated. I personally have just been using these as discussion of things and when someone makes an actual thread and is willing to update it, we can keep that clear.
    Simple fact is when "Want to know what the best punish or Crush Counter combo <CHARACTER> has?" is part of the OP, it's safe to say that the thread is a wash.
    I mean, come on.

    So, I am deeply sorry for my accidental posting, I shall edit it and endeavour to not do it again.
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Lab Monster Joined: Posts: 1,215
    edited February 2016
    Is the prima guide wrong on the frame data of MS on hit? It states -3 on hit...but I can always land s.LP on normal hit with is 4 frames? Also is there a fixed amount of gain off counter hits outside of added properties or it's own separate frame data per move?

    That said, here's some practical combos for landing Ex SB extensions in corner after an MS:

    [all corner...]
    deep MS, s.LP xx Ex-SB, s.LP xx l.SS
    deep MS, s.LP xx Ex-SB, s.LP xx EX-SS
    deep MS, s.LP xx Ex-SB, s.LP xx Ex-TA [VT <-] nj.HK, m.SS

    Not sure it's worth burning the meter for the damage, but if you mess up the link on s.LP after MS you are putting them into a block string with advantage.
    Post edited by ifbpwnstar on
    MvCi: Gamora/Marvel - Soul
    SF 5: Nash
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Vergil (RS) | Strider (vajra)

  • risemixrisemix Joined: Posts: 929
    i posted this in gendisc but it probably belongs here instead:

    cr.LK counterhit has less pushback than a regular hit, which opens up a combo into rapid punch target combo. a little unusual, wonder why that happens.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    I just want to add if anyone hasn't mentioned it, you can easily hit confirm Nash's fierce. Very fun.
    Play more.
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