Necalli Q&A Thread

jchensorjchensor Salty ChenJoined: Posts: 1,934 admin
edited March 2016 in Necalli
If you’re looking for an answer to a specific question about Necalli, this is the place to ask. And if you know a lot about Necalli, swing by here from time to time to help answer the questions!

=== NOTE: If you want to become the OP for this thread so you can maintain the top post to aggregate the thread's information here, contact me via the SRK messaging system and I will be able to convert you to become the OP for this thread. ===
Post edited by jchensor on
http://jchensor.blogspot.com

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

"Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

(AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
«13

Comments

  • alpha_counter13alpha_counter13 satsui no hado.. Joined: Posts: 32
    is necalli a satsui no hado practitioner??
  • LokiramzaLokiramza Joined: Posts: 37
    No clue yet. All we know is from the small amount of story in the current arcade mode in which he is after strong souls to devour.
  • KorbidonKorbidon Who can stand against such abominations? Joined: Posts: 4,599
    Do we have frame data yet?
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    is necalli a satsui no hado practitioner??

    He's a pillarman
    Korbidon wrote: »
    Do we have frame data yet?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1976rt8B91PqVCeYJAmcnW1uwVJ0H03QJtV-dJC5ohL8/htmlview?sle=true#
  • FrozenSoulFrozenSoul Joined: Posts: 7
    I don't really understand how to play this character. He was sold as a rushdown character but playing him he feels very underwhelming to me. I know I must be very wrong, my problem is I don't get the idea.

    First his range is VERY short, but ok if he's god like upclose I guess it's a fair trade. But I don't get why he's so powerful up close? Every move he does has an enormous pushback putting him in a bad spot. Most of the time if I hit with a cr.FP,qcfMK my crMP doesn't even connect because I'm out of range ! I must do something very wrong because I don't see anybody else complaining about this or having troubles (been watching PRBalrog, Kazunoko, etc.).
    What are his good buttons? HK have a good range but it's unsafe :(
    It's the beggining of the game so nobody is punishing it, but it'll come. And I guess the only blockstring I've seen on video is stMK,crMP, stomp but even the lk stomp is unsafe ... Can I do the MK stomp instead? Won't it be DP'd?
    I have the hardest time to take advantage of knockdowns too but I guess it's not very Necalli related.
    I just started the game so I will not jump on the gun and ranting about this or that, he looks like a very (dope) powerfull character, but I just wish to understand where lies the true strenghts of non VT Necalli :)
  • ExiiLeExiiLe Ever Improving Joined: Posts: 331
    FrozenSoul wrote: »
    I don't really understand how to play this character. He was sold as a rushdown character but playing him he feels very underwhelming to me. I know I must be very wrong, my problem is I don't get the idea.

    First his range is VERY short, but ok if he's god like upclose I guess it's a fair trade. But I don't get why he's so powerful up close? Every move he does has an enormous pushback putting him in a bad spot. Most of the time if I hit with a cr.FP,qcfMK my crMP doesn't even connect because I'm out of range ! I must do something very wrong because I don't see anybody else complaining about this or having troubles (been watching PRBalrog, Kazunoko, etc.).
    What are his good buttons? HK have a good range but it's unsafe :(
    It's the beggining of the game so nobody is punishing it, but it'll come. And I guess the only blockstring I've seen on video is stMK,crMP, stomp but even the lk stomp is unsafe ... Can I do the MK stomp instead? Won't it be DP'd?
    I have the hardest time to take advantage of knockdowns too but I guess it's not very Necalli related.
    I just started the game so I will not jump on the gun and ranting about this or that, he looks like a very (dope) powerfull character, but I just wish to understand where lies the true strenghts of non VT Necalli :)

    mp and cr.mp are both really strong, safe, and can hit confirm into big damage combos. HK is really good if you know the range of your opponent, just don't throw it out too often because it can be punished by sweeps and moves with invincibility. I have been playing a bit more on the defensive side because your crush counter can convert into huge damage, and is easy to combo off of. My game plan so far has been to walk them into the corner and keep them grounded with dp and cr.hp, then try to pressure them into pressing a button. Keep them at a range where you can safely throw out mp or cr.mp then try to catch them with a combo or go for the command grab if they are turtling. On knock down you can cross up with j.mk or bait them into wake up buttons and punish accordingly. That's just my plan though, I've had some success but there are Necalli's higher on the leaderboards than me.
    what
  • senshirbsenshirb Joined: Posts: 5
    Does the DP shortcut-motion work for you when you are on the left side? It's working perfectly for me on the right side of the screen but when I'm on the left side he will do the Command Grab 75% of the time.

    (if you are wondering: down-forward -> down-backwards -> down-forward + Punch = DP Shortcut)
  • TheDewMan32TheDewMan32 Joined: Posts: 89
    senshirb wrote: »
    Does the DP shortcut-motion work for you when you are on the left side? It's working perfectly for me on the right side of the screen but when I'm on the left side he will do the Command Grab 75% of the time.

    (if you are wondering: down-forward -> down-backwards -> down-forward + Punch = DP Shortcut)

    You get command grab if you hit pure back in this situation. Works perfectly on both sides if you don't go beyond the diagonals
  • senshirbsenshirb Joined: Posts: 5
    senshirb wrote: »

    You get command grab if you hit pure back in this situation. Works perfectly on both sides if you don't go beyond the diagonals

    Thanks! Gotta get used to that!
  • sketchpuppysketchpuppy Joined: Posts: 6
    Kind of random question about the frame data guys. I clicked on the Google docs spreadsheet(I'm on an iPhone 6) and I can't scroll past Nash? Anyone know how to navigate the spreadsheet past n? Lol
  • Myonly_BRMyonly_BR Joined: Posts: 15
    Kind of random question about the frame data guys. I clicked on the Google docs spreadsheet(I'm on an iPhone 6) and I can't scroll past Nash? Anyone know how to navigate the spreadsheet past n? Lol

    There's this app called Vframes that have both the command list and frame data for all chars
  • The IlluminatiThe Illuminati Joined: Posts: 656
    What's his bnb?
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    What's his bnb?

    St.mk -> cr.mp xx LP/EX Slash
    Lights xx EX Stomp
    Cr.hp xx MK Stomp -> cr.mp xx LP/EX Slash
  • caliberclarkcaliberclark Joined: Posts: 115
    Anyone know how to punish Rashid's neutral HK eagle spike. Seems that I cant punish with disc's guidance???? Any ideas?
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,926
    download vframes on android, you can figure out any punish that way. or you can just experiment in training mode
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • AreEyeSeaKayAreEyeSeaKay Joined: Posts: 1,641
    Anyone know how to punish Rashid's neutral HK eagle spike. Seems that I cant punish with disc's guidance???? Any ideas?

    ex eagle spike -9 cr. mp
    jump eagle strike -35 dash -> cr. hp
    ex jump eagle spike -35 dash -> cr. hp
    lk. whirlwind shot -7 cr. mp

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMjPO5x9RCAeQUoZ7kAdhI3-6lfVt8_JEct78XtG4l4/edit?usp=docslist_api
  • DarkElfDarkElf Joined: Posts: 15
    edited March 2016
    Sorry if this is a dumb question. I've seen some necallis link out of meaty s.hk. How does hitting it meaty let you link from it when it's normally -4 on block, and is there a trick to doing it? I've only gotten it to work once or twice and it seems really hard to time.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    DarkElf wrote: »
    Sorry if this is a dumb question. I've seen some necallis link out of meaty s.hk. How does hitting it meaty let you link from it when it's normally -4 on block, and is there a trick to doing it? I've only gotten it to work once or twice and it seems really hard to time.

    Well, you have to hit with it so it's +3 at worst and goes up to +6. The number on block doesn't matter if you hit them.

    The trick is getting a knockdown so that the later active frames connect
  • DarkElfDarkElf Joined: Posts: 15
    oh sorry i got the data mixed up, but still it's +3 on hit. where are the 3 extra frames of hit stun coming from?
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    DarkElf wrote: »
    oh sorry i got the data mixed up, but still it's +3 on hit. where are the 3 extra frames of hit stun coming from?

    Turning the active frames into frame advantage. Basically every active frame after the one you hit with is added onto the recovery of a move. Frame advantage assumes you hit with the first active frame. So if you hit with the last active frame, that's 3 frames that don't get added onto the recovery, but rather onto your frame advantage.
  • learis1learis1 Guardian Cadet Joined: Posts: 818
    How does necalli's V-trigger affect the frame data for all of his stuff?
    Mend and Defend

    Location: South Florida (N. Miami)

    SF5: Fighter Tag: Learis1
    main char: Ryu
    avg lp: 2000

    SF4: main char: Fei Long
  • fabriziox1fabriziox1 Joined: Posts: 66
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    edited March 2016
    learis1 wrote: »
    How does necalli's V-trigger affect the frame data for all of his stuff?

    cr.hp is faster by 2f, cr.mp gets an extra frame of advantage on hit, stomps are slightly safer on block with HK being +2. Vframes has LK as -3 on block and MK as -1 on block.
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it

    The point of doing a meaty is that you hit them on the first frame of standing up so you beat everything with your button. And in what situation are you doing this meaty? After a dash up midscreen post Target Combo? After a corner reset?
  • fabriziox1fabriziox1 Joined: Posts: 66
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it

    The point of doing a meaty is that you hit them on the first frame of standing up so you beat everything with your button. And in what situation are you doing this meaty? After a dash up midscreen post Target Combo? After a corner reset?[/quote]

    So the most common knockdown situations I get are: From target combo and crouching hk or Counter cr.hk

    I dont want to worry about corner yet its too much info for me to retain atm lol

    I'm really lost in the topic and would greatly appreciate what buttons to whiff or w.e to make the timing easy

    in 1:4- i see him whiffind moves on purpose so the timing for the meaty hk comes out perfect

    Thank you in advance
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it

    The point of doing a meaty is that you hit them on the first frame of standing up so you beat everything with your button. And in what situation are you doing this meaty? After a dash up midscreen post Target Combo? After a corner reset?

    So the most common knockdown situations I get are: From target combo and crouching hk or Counter cr.hk

    I dont want to worry about corner yet its too much info for me to retain atm lol

    I'm really lost in the topic and would greatly appreciate what buttons to whiff or w.e to make the timing easy

    in 1:4- i see him whiffind moves on purpose so the timing for the meaty hk comes out perfect

    Thank you in advance[/quote]

    Off most knockdowns you have to manually time it, there just isn't enough time to whiff a normal after a dash if they quickrise/backroll. Target Combo gives you 35/40f on quickrise/backroll, so you can do a double dash and be +1/+6. If they have no 3f normals you can just do a st.lk, but if they do you should do a st.lp against the quickrise and a st.lk against the backroll I believe. This leaves you in range to either tick throw or combo on hit (can only do double jab XX EX Stomps on quickrise, but you get a meaty enough st.lk to go into cr.mp on hit if they backroll).

    So it's better oki than a Slash ender, which is consistent with my earlier findings.
  • learis1learis1 Guardian Cadet Joined: Posts: 818
    When is a good time to use Necalli's hp's? It baffles my mind that he actually is worse off damage-wise when he gets a CC on his hp's compared to if he could just continue his stomp combo without the CC knocking the opponent into the air.

    So I feel like I'm definitely better off using st. hk for CC punishes and fishing. I literally can't think of a use for his hp's besides aa with cr. hp.
    Mend and Defend

    Location: South Florida (N. Miami)

    SF5: Fighter Tag: Learis1
    main char: Ryu
    avg lp: 2000

    SF4: main char: Fei Long
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    learis1 wrote: »
    When is a good time to use Necalli's hp's? It baffles my mind that he actually is worse off damage-wise when he gets a CC on his hp's compared to if he could just continue his stomp combo without the CC knocking the opponent into the air.

    So I feel like I'm definitely better off using st. hk for CC punishes and fishing. I literally can't think of a use for his hp's besides aa with cr. hp.

    They're really combo buttons. Well, cr.hp is also slightly useful as an anti-air and in combos while st.hp is kind of worthless from what I can tell. I sometimes use then to fish for confirms into HK Stomp in VT as you get decent damage on hit and are +2 on block.
  • fabriziox1fabriziox1 Joined: Posts: 66
    Muttonman wrote: »
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it

    The point of doing a meaty is that you hit them on the first frame of standing up so you beat everything with your button. And in what situation are you doing this meaty? After a dash up midscreen post Target Combo? After a corner reset?

    So the most common knockdown situations I get are: From target combo and crouching hk or Counter cr.hk

    I dont want to worry about corner yet its too much info for me to retain atm lol

    I'm really lost in the topic and would greatly appreciate what buttons to whiff or w.e to make the timing easy

    in 1:4- i see him whiffind moves on purpose so the timing for the meaty hk comes out perfect

    Thank you in advance

    Off most knockdowns you have to manually time it, there just isn't enough time to whiff a normal after a dash if they quickrise/backroll. Target Combo gives you 35/40f on quickrise/backroll, so you can do a double dash and be +1/+6. If they have no 3f normals you can just do a st.lk, but if they do you should do a st.lp against the quickrise and a st.lk against the backroll I believe. This leaves you in range to either tick throw or combo on hit (can only do double jab XX EX Stomps on quickrise, but you get a meaty enough st.lk to go into cr.mp on hit if they backroll).

    So it's better oki than a Slash ender, which is consistent with my earlier findings.[/quote]

    Right after the double dash finishes do I just start spaming the lk/lp? I tried it and this seems like the only way because as soon as you reach the opponent they are already getting up.. also what if you don't get a counter hit? is that the end of your pressure?

    And if its not a quickrise what are your meaty options?/you get a knockdown off sweep so no need to double dash
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Muttonman wrote: »
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    fabriziox1 wrote: »
    Back in the tech thread I read about his Oki game consisting of landing meaty lk/lp but I've also seen people landing meaty hk after landing a knockdown...

    First of all after Target Combo: How do I land meaty lk (wouldnt lp be better always since it also beats 3 frame moves?) and if it hits how do i combo off it

    What are tricks to get the timing of hk meaty down? I ve seen peopel whiff moves on purpose to get the timing right on it

    The point of doing a meaty is that you hit them on the first frame of standing up so you beat everything with your button. And in what situation are you doing this meaty? After a dash up midscreen post Target Combo? After a corner reset?

    So the most common knockdown situations I get are: From target combo and crouching hk or Counter cr.hk

    I dont want to worry about corner yet its too much info for me to retain atm lol

    I'm really lost in the topic and would greatly appreciate what buttons to whiff or w.e to make the timing easy

    in 1:4- i see him whiffind moves on purpose so the timing for the meaty hk comes out perfect

    Thank you in advance

    Off most knockdowns you have to manually time it, there just isn't enough time to whiff a normal after a dash if they quickrise/backroll. Target Combo gives you 35/40f on quickrise/backroll, so you can do a double dash and be +1/+6. If they have no 3f normals you can just do a st.lk, but if they do you should do a st.lp against the quickrise and a st.lk against the backroll I believe. This leaves you in range to either tick throw or combo on hit (can only do double jab XX EX Stomps on quickrise, but you get a meaty enough st.lk to go into cr.mp on hit if they backroll).

    So it's better oki than a Slash ender, which is consistent with my earlier findings.

    Right after the double dash finishes do I just start spaming the lk/lp? I tried it and this seems like the only way because as soon as you reach the opponent they are already getting up.. also what if you don't get a counter hit? is that the end of your pressure?

    And if its not a quickrise what are your meaty options?/you get a knockdown off sweep so no need to double dash[/quote]

    After a Target Combo yes, you just press it instantly. After a sweep it's one dash, wait a tick, press st.lk. If they don't quickrise you can time a safejump. Slow wakeup is 59f slower than quickrise it seems, so pick a framekill accordingly
  • learis1learis1 Guardian Cadet Joined: Posts: 818
    Basic question. I hear people saying Necalli's ex grab is super useful. I've just been using regular grab. I don't think ex gains any extra invincibility or speed. So is it mainly better because of the damage output. Or does it also provide better positioning and setups?
    Mend and Defend

    Location: South Florida (N. Miami)

    SF5: Fighter Tag: Learis1
    main char: Ryu
    avg lp: 2000

    SF4: main char: Fei Long
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    learis1 wrote: »
    Basic question. I hear people saying Necalli's ex grab is super useful. I've just been using regular grab. I don't think ex gains any extra invincibility or speed. So is it mainly better because of the damage output. Or does it also provide better positioning and setups?

    More range, damage, and setups. You basically lose pressure after a normal command grab but you can sweep or reset after an EX grab. Even do a left/right in the corner or VT
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    What are your prefered ways to activate trigger?

    Also, do you BnB with target combo until you can activate trigger or do you rely on solo vskill +taking dmg to get trigger ready?
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,867
    gigglz wrote: »
    What are your prefered ways to activate trigger?

    Also, do you BnB with target combo until you can activate trigger or do you rely on solo vskill +taking dmg to get trigger ready?

    Generally off a poke to give me a cancel unless I'm way behind.

    I'll use the target combo mainly in three circumstances. If I get a midscreen jump in/crush counter confirm where I can't do a HP combo and Slash won't put them in the corner, and in the corner when I get that same confirm but can't get the HP combo rolling. That's because you get better pressure midscreen off a target combo, and you get better damage in the corner alongside the chance for an aerial reset.

    The last place I use it is whiff punishing with st.mk. It's tough, but it's the only way to convert damage without charge or super on a lot of whiff punishes.

    That said, 90% of my V Gauge tends to come from taking damage anyways, as those aren't super common occurrences.
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,670
    Muttonman wrote: »
    gigglz wrote: »
    What are your prefered ways to activate trigger?

    Also, do you BnB with target combo until you can activate trigger or do you rely on solo vskill +taking dmg to get trigger ready?


    The last place I use it is whiff punishing with st.mk. It's tough, but it's the only way to convert damage without charge or super on a lot of whiff punishes.

    That's such a smart opportunity to use it, I can't believe I didn't think of that before. I've always been ending my punishes with slash
  • Norse_FuryNorse_Fury Joined: Posts: 194
    Negative edge fucking any one else up?
  • AreEyeSeaKayAreEyeSeaKay Joined: Posts: 1,641
    I negative edge mp slash after cr mp. All. The. Time. Super bad habit that manifested itself in sf4 when I briefly played evil Ryu.

    I can't decide if I want to work on holding down mp in that scenario or focus on tapping. Probably more productive to focus on tapping.
  • Norse_FuryNorse_Fury Joined: Posts: 194
    Exactly what I'm talking about!!!!!!
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    I negative edge mp slash after cr mp. All. The. Time. Super bad habit that manifested itself in sf4 when I briefly played evil Ryu.

    I can't decide if I want to work on holding down mp in that scenario or focus on tapping. Probably more productive to focus on tapping.

    I usually hold mp, had a lot of trouble with negative edge in sf4 too (I just hold the buttons too long it seems..) and just holding it down helped me
  • af0af0 Joined: Posts: 1,113
    I remember a vid about what Necalli can get after crush counter cr.HP. I can't seem to find it since its quite old.
    He's sometimes out of range for sweep or DP..is there anything guranteed that Necalli can combo into after cr.HP CH anti-air?
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,926
    disc
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.