Zangief Match-Ups Thread

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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Update on matchup thoughts:

    Birdie 5-5
    Cammy 5-5
    Chun 4-6
    Dhalsim 4-6
    Fang 6-4: This is the only change so far, from Fang beating Gief to Gief beating Fang. I feel a patient Gief who rarely jumps can give Fang a tough time! Fang's mine and upballs don't offer much protection from 1/4 screen due to walk up spd getting past both. Fang's footsie buttons aren't the best either and can be whiff punished pretty easily by Gief because they last so long with their multiple hits. Those whiff punishes can be with buttons, but also with vtrigger, which can punish not just projectiles on reaction but also Fang's down-toward+hp, st mp, etc. And while lot of Fang's pressure is strong against many characters, I feel that Gief's vskill absorbing both hits of whatever Fang does gives Gief a tool to beat Fang's pressure that few characters have. I've played this matchup on both sides and have come to feel this way on either side so far.
    Karin 5-5
    Ken 6-4
    Laura 6-4
    M.Bison 4-6
    Nash 5-5
    Necalli 5-5
    R.Mika 6-4
    Rashid 5-5
    Ryu 6-4
    Vega 5-5
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  • TekkenManTekkenMan Joined: Posts: 77
    My opinion of the Fang match up has also changed! He seemed unbeatable when I started learning Zangief! Now I know the match up better. He's not so bad.
  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    Thank ultradavid. That feels about right so far. Dhalsim is tough but once you get in you're going to do damage. The Vega matchup is tough for me. Any advice on what the objective here is?
  • scratchbackscratchback Joined: Posts: 1,043
    Just played RayRays Chun and yeah it's a tough mu lol. Still don't know what exactly is safe and not but it must be nice playing a character with all those tools at your disposal smh. Such an uphill battle imo.
  • TekkenManTekkenMan Joined: Posts: 77
    Just played RayRays Chun and yeah it's a tough mu lol. Still don't know what exactly is safe and not but it must be nice playing a character with all those tools at your disposal smh. Such an uphill battle imo.

    lol I say the same thing to my self. Must be nice being easy to use. Makes me feel better when I win.

  • scratchbackscratchback Joined: Posts: 1,043
    Not gonna lie, I've been more frustrated in these 2 weeks playing 5 than probably the entire 8 years of playing 4 with Gief. I've lost to more terrible players in these last two weeks than probably any 2 years of playing SF4. You eat one random jump in now and it's bye bye.
  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    I keep running into players who are spending 50% of the match in the air. Hell after you c.HP them they go straight back up! The allure of hitting a jumping attack and target combo is huge online right now.
  • Banishing_FlatBanishing_Flat Joined: Posts: 9
    I just want a good reversal that you can use effective on reaction. this is so annoying. 7 rage quitters in a row, than I love against a full laggy mashing karin player, I was close to quit it man, lost 120LP and don't get my LP for 7 wins... Ridiculous, I really hope they will punish these rage quitters really hard.

    Can they please let Lariat hit crouchers and make it a better reversal?
  • BronnBronn Joined: Posts: 451
    I just want a good reversal that you can use effective on reaction. this is so annoying. 7 rage quitters in a row, than I love against a full laggy mashing karin player, I was close to quit it man, lost 120LP and don't get my LP for 7 wins... Ridiculous, I really hope they will punish these rage quitters really hard.

    Can they please let Lariat hit crouchers and make it a better reversal?

    To me, it's already pretty good. Unless they are right on top of you for throw ticks, I just mash PPP when I sense Ken/Nash going for really obvious throws. At most they can increase it to 7f or something, but that might be too much.
    3s: Alex with the occasional hugo
    SFV: Alex, G.
  • GunmadGunmad Joined: Posts: 96
    Hell after you c.HP them they go straight back up! The allure of hitting a jumping attack and target combo is huge online right now.
    Hitting those people 5 times in a row with headbutt is hillarious. For some fighting vs Gief is "the floor is lava" mode.
  • BronnBronn Joined: Posts: 451
    When you establish you can reliably TK AIR SPD it has the other effect of allowing you to land your grounded SPDs every time.
    3s: Alex with the occasional hugo
    SFV: Alex, G.
  • filldohfilldoh Chief Beata Bitch Joined: Posts: 1,195
    edited March 2016
    Bronn wrote: »
    I just want a good reversal that you can use effective on reaction. this is so annoying. 7 rage quitters in a row, than I love against a full laggy mashing karin player, I was close to quit it man, lost 120LP and don't get my LP for 7 wins... Ridiculous, I really hope they will punish these rage quitters really hard.

    Can they please let Lariat hit crouchers and make it a better reversal?

    To me, it's already pretty good. Unless they are right on top of you for throw ticks, I just mash PPP when I sense Ken/Nash going for really obvious throws. At most they can increase it to 7f or something, but that might be too much.

    if they are going for tick throws It is all about beating thier options. if you go with Lariat it beats Jump, throw and slow attacks, but loses to fast attacks, and low attacks. I say go for exspd, it is unallowable and will beat anything 5 frames or slower, and only loses to jump and 4 frame attacks. Not to mention it is more than twice the damage.
  • filldohfilldoh Chief Beata Bitch Joined: Posts: 1,195
    Since i have been playing for a few weeks now, my opinion on matchups have changed. I marked the changes with reasons.

    Birdie 5/5 jumping and blocking bananas changes this match completely
    Cammy 6/4
    Chun 4/6 this in my opinion is his worst but still winnable
    Sim 4/6
    Fang 6/4 this has changed to one of his best matchups in my opinion. Fang really has no answers to most of giefs tools once he is cornered.
    Karin 4/6 i think he loses to a defensive karin as her pokes recover to quick to punish reliably with parry.
    Ken 6/4
    Laura 6/4
    Bison 4/6
    Nash 5/5 This one seems completely fair to me. I think Gief wins till Nash gets CA and then it is in Nash's Favor as he can poke with 214K free from distance.
    Necalli 5/5 he beats Necalli outside normally and Necalli beats gief in vtrigger
    Rmika 6/4 your pokes beat hers, and parry kills her ways to get in. Plus you do more damage.
    Rashid 5/5
    Ryu 6/4
    Vega 6/4

    So totals
    Favorable 7
    Unfavorable 4
    Even 4

    he keeps moving up in my mind but since he loses to all three top tiers(bison, chun and sim) I think top 7-8 is his ceiling. good news is the tiers are so close in this i dont think he has a single unwinnable matchup. Even Chun gets loses several of her options against him as he limits the way people can play. I am loving this as no matchup is free and none are impossible.
  • TekkenManTekkenMan Joined: Posts: 77
    edited March 2016



    This is how you deal with jumpers! I did so many jabs.
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,285
    I played a good Chun, and it was like the ST match up all over again. I know Snake Eyez got in Ricky's love box, so I will try to re-watch that match up. First time I felt like there wasn't much I could do with Gief. Still worried about Sim and Fang (when people actually figure this game out).

  • SanjiephSanjieph Joined: Posts: 92
    Lots of problems with Ken lately. I think my C HP or Lariat don't work at all as anti airs against him, regardless of timing. Might need to switch to just standing LP, but I don't know what to do against crossups.
  • richglixrichglix Joined: Posts: 106
    Sanjieph wrote: »
    Lots of problems with Ken lately. I think my C HP or Lariat don't work at all as anti airs against him, regardless of timing. Might need to switch to just standing LP, but I don't know what to do against crossups.

    I seldom ppp use it as anti air, part of why the transition to this iteration has been difficult for me is that ex greenhand and lariat were my "panic moves" in four. Lariat was brutal on focus attack armor! This game lariat is not nearly as badass and is dangerous to use. Its hitbox is weird too.

    I use lariat defensively for off the ground moves that come at me horozontally (worlds worst speller over here sorry). Its really good against the move where Cammy launches hereself in a ball at you as has the multiple options (throw, sweep, divekick perhaps? Im not too familiar with her stuff). It usually just hits her out of it while she is still a ball.

    Against jump ins, especially if they are on their way down it has failed me often.

    Against cross ups, i think we are supposed to vskill fireballs so we have the meter to block the cross up then Alpha Counter

  • richglixrichglix Joined: Posts: 106
    THE MIRROR

    I played 20ish rounds with a guy from neogaf yesterday.

    Its a very odd sort of match plays very different than Gief against anyone else.

    There was very little jumping, lots of footsies, spds, and v skill.

    One thing I learned is that ex bear grab on reaction to their vskill is awesome.

    My opponent, who is/knows the game better said we learned that

    1. EX run absorbs a hit of VTrigger suction

    And

    2. Trying to 6MK into spd instead just leads to you getting spd'd a large % of the time.
  • calaedwcalaedw Joined: Posts: 24
    edited March 2016
    Anyone else having a hard against Kens? I've been playing against Kens in the 2500- 4000 LP range and the most trouble against ones that poke/footsie. Been sticking to cr.lp and walk-in headbutt but really having a hard time against Ken's st.hk and cr.mp.
    SF5: Zangief
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  • Zangiefs_chest_beardZangiefs_chest_beard Joined: Posts: 78
    calaedw wrote: »
    Anyone else having a hard against Kens? I've been playing against Kens in the 2500- 4000 LP range and the most trouble against ones that poke/footsie. Been sticking to cr.lp and walk-in headbutt but really having a hard time against Ken's st.hk and cr.mp.

    Cr. Lp pretty much beats out everything vs ken.
  • robotmeteorsrobotmeteors Joined: Posts: 4
    edited March 2016
    richglix wrote: »

    I use lariat defensively for off the ground moves that come at me horozontally (worlds worst speller over here sorry). Its really good against the move where Cammy launches hereself in a ball at you as has the multiple options (throw, sweep, divekick perhaps? Im not too familiar with her stuff). It usually just hits her out of it while she is still a ball.

    You can CC that with st HK. It sets her up for EX air SPD or dash in HK reset for standing EX SPD.

    Also, hi everyone! Your posts have been tremendously helpful to me over the past several weeks so thank you all for that!
  • HassunHassun Joined: Posts: 117
    Preface: I've been playing fighting games since SFII but I have never been good at them. My execution is so bad that Gief is the only character I can even attempt to play in SFV because everyone else needs combos and confirms and such which I cannot perform. (If you want an example, despite playing 100s of hours of SFIV I have never been able to do an FADC combo, not even in training mode.) In short, I am a very experienced, yet very bad player.

    I have now put about 140 hours into playing and training SFV Zangief. I've also spent hours writing down notes, reading guides and watching videos on how to play and checking out top players like Brick and Snake_Eyez.


    These are the match-up ratings I have so far:
    Birdie 4-6
    Birdie does most of what Gief does but better. He out-ranges Gief, has great anti airs, does quite a bit of damage and can put up a wall with banana peel and drink can.

    Cammy 5-5
    Footsies battle. She can attack from many different angles and does a serious amount of damage (more on that later). Since she spends a lot of time airborne your V-trigger won't be all that useful unless you combo into it. On the bright side a lot of her moves go for the legs and Gief doesn't really have a problem with that. Whiff punishes are Gief's main tool here but you'll also need to be on point with anti-airs and blocks/iron muscle to try and catch her doing something unsafe.

    Chun 4-6
    Chun easily outfootsies Gief. Just awesome buttons and a lot of them to boot. She basically picks apart Zangief without him being able to get anything going. Normally that is offset by damage potential but in SFV pretty much everyone can do severe damage. This makes the match-up far worse than in SFIV.

    Dhalsim 4-6/3-7
    Gief vs Dhalsim is possibly the worst match-up in SFV so far. As Gief you're basically going to have to go for some hard reads to catch one of Dhalsim's limbs and get a knockdown or otherwise getting in close to do any sort of significant damage. Sadly when you do get in it's not like in USFIV where the match is basically over. Dhalsim in SFV is far stronger and can now escape Gief's pressure much more easily and has a wide array of offensive tools allowing him to even take the fight to Gief without much trouble. Extremely tough match only mitigated by the fact that Dhalsim is not an easy character to play so low level Sims are prone to getting rushed down.

    Fang 5.5-4.5:
    FANG vs Gief is interesting. This match is actually kind of like Dhalsim vs Gief in SFIV (not USFIV though). FANG must do whatever he can to keep Gief out because once Gief's in he's in a world of hurt. That being said FANG does have some good buttons and -more importantly- a stationary poison wall to keep Gief out. That poison wall and his buttons are the key in this tense match-up. Newer players might make the mistake of thinking FANG is supposed to be zoning with his projectiles but that's not actually true. All those projectiles are for is basically anti-airs. Iron Muscle takes care of the blobs when Gief is on the ground and builds delicious V-Metre to boot. Gief's V-Trigger is quite powerful in this match because it can pull FANG from behind his poison wall on top of avoiding his poison orbs.

    Karin 5-5
    I've seen people compare this match to Cammy but I think it's probably actually more like a less difficult version of Chun-Li. Karin can outfootsie Gief quite well (although not as well as Chun) and has some relatively easy combos which do quite a lot of damage. As long as she doesn't do anything silly this match should be pretty even. (Gief's LP is very powerful in this match because it can interrupt Karin quite well if she's trying to get in on him.)

    Ken 4.5-5.5
    I've seen people give this one to Gief but I think Ken wins it. The reason for this is his flexibility and speed. A good Ken can rush Gief down and make a hasty escape when things get dangerous. On top of that he can zone quite well and has strong anti-airs with his shoryukens and his arching HK tatsumaki senpukyaku. He also benefits a lot from the fact that most characters in SFV do a a whole lot of damage. Usually that is an area where Gief shines but this advantage is much reduced in SFV.

    Laura 6-4
    This might be Gief's best match-up in the game. She has an advantage on Gief in the sense that she has a slow projectile, great mix-ups and can hit into grab gief from outside of Gief's range but at the same time her defensive options are not that good and she is prone to getting rushed down.

    M.Bison 4-6
    Very mobile, insanely good V-trigger, silly amounts of damage and tough to open up. Dictator is a harsh match-up for many characters in SFV and Zangief is no different.

    Nash 4-6
    Nash can beat Zangief purely on his keepaway game. He just zones him out very well and has great tools to keep Gief from getting in his face and great escape options (V-trigger, V-reversal) when he's cornered. On top of that even if he does let Gief get close to him he can fend for himself quite well.

    Necalli 5-5*
    Necalli is an interesting one. When he's not in V-trigger I think Gief slightly wins this match due to his better neutral buttons, vortex and damage. That being said Necalli is still quite dangerous because he also does quite a lot of damage himself, has a great crush counter and long range seismo attacks to trip up Gief as he's trying to get in. *Once Necalli activates V-trigger this match-up becomes very much in favour of Necalli though. He's one of the characters who benefits the most from the fact that most characters in SFV do a lot of damage. Necalli does downright obscene amounts of it to the point where Gief just pales in comparison and his speed and mobility while in V-trigger are extremely difficult for Zangief to handle.

    R.Mika 5.5-4.5?
    Not too sure about this one frankly. At lower levels (my level) this match seems to favour Gief quite a bit but watching some of the better R Mika's show off her mix-up game, setups and combos makes me think it might actually not be all that bad for her after all.

    Rashid 4-6
    Rashid is kind of like FANG in the sense that he needs to keep Gief away from him but unlike FANG he has extreme mobility, powerful long-range attacks and better tools to stop Gief once he gets close. His projectiles are very good at stopping Gief and his mobility allows him to defuse potentially dangerous situations quite handily. His V-trigger and CA are also fantastic at stopping Gief dead in his tracks or straight up killing him.

    Ryu 4.5-5.5
    Ryu beats Zangief in SFV. He just has all the tools to do so. Good projectiles, good anti-airs and (here we go again) serious damage output. His downsides are kind of stubby pokes and lack of great escape options once cornered but when Ryu can go toe-to-toe with Zangief in damage potential both metreless and with metre you know you have a problem.

    Vega 4.5-5.5
    Claw can keep out Zangief quite well as long as he has his claw. He's extremely mobile and can dash in and out of range quite easily. His V-trigger also gives him great escape options whether he actually hits Gief or not. On top of that he makes it extremely dangerous for Gief to go airborne. His damage output isn't the best though and once he loses his Claw I think this match turns into Gief's favour.

    Zangief 5-5
    The mirror is kind of weird but I suppose that's how most mirrors are. HP becomes a game of chicken where the last player to push the button wins. SPD range knowledge will be severely tested and HK becomes an even more powerful button than in most other match-ups. crLP is also good at stopping Gief's own tactics.


    Overall I think Zangief is one of the weaker characters in the game right now. It can be a lot of fun to intimidate people or snatch them out of the air with his new air spd but at the same time vortex isn't that strong, multiple characters have pretty good corner escape options and in Gief's traditionally fearsome damage output isn't that impressive either because of the generally high damage output most of the cast has.
  • bddres68bddres68 Joined: Posts: 11
    Sanjieph wrote: »
    Lots of problems with Ken lately. I think my C HP or Lariat don't work at all as anti airs against him, regardless of timing. Might need to switch to just standing LP, but I don't know what to do against crossups.

    I've had a lot of success with charged st.HP as AA against Ken and Ryu. The one hit of armor is active for a long time so the timing is very forgiving. Then you follow immediately after with SPD and these Kens will begin thinking twice about jumping in.

    As for crossups I've learned to recognize the distance so I just block them. If it's particularly deep I will risk a Lariat. The trick is to duck and unleash it when your opponent is relatively low.
  • M_RidleyM_Ridley MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA Joined: Posts: 29
    Any tips on Laura? People keep saying it's 6-4 in Gief's favor, but I continually get bodied by Laura. What am I missing?
  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    I haven't played too much of Laura and my results have been mixed. I think this is a match where we play offensive, which for me is a bit counterintuitive because I like defense with Gief here. In my research I find that Laura players mention they have a problem with pressure and once a player gets in there are problems. I watched a Snakes Eyes match vs Laura and he had a very smart idea of s.hk right through her fireball thing. At worst it is a trade in our favor.
  • VDonVDon THANK YOU STARBASED GOD Joined: Posts: 654
    edited March 2016
    M_Ridley wrote: »
    Any tips on Laura? People keep saying it's 6-4 in Gief's favor, but I continually get bodied by Laura. What am I missing?

    If you get hit by lp elbow you have to guess command throw or attack, otherwise you can jab the shit out of everything. Dash up SPD vs the projectile or footsie with s.hk. SPD the able kick on block. She has no real reversal so on wake up, you can walk in and do whatever you want. EX elbow is a possibility, but most Laura's don't use it on wake up because it's not safe. If the Laura you're playing is stupid, then bait it. That's why it's 6-4. It's certainly not free though. You still need to be able to footsie.
    SSF4AE 2012: E. Honda/Chun-Li/Fei Long
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  • HassunHassun Joined: Posts: 117
    edited March 2016
    I have found that I cannot beat zoning Necalli at all. Iron muscle is highly ineffectual vs seismo, rushing him does not work due to his crush countering side kick and air attacks don't work either due to Necalli's great anti air claw thing. Basically no avenue to attack.

    Nash also completely destroys me by zoning. I have no way of getting in at all.

    And Rashid. Basically anyone with good zoning and strong escapes.
    Post edited by Hassun on
  • richglixrichglix Joined: Posts: 106
    Hassun wrote: »
    I have found that I cannot beat zoning Necalli at all. Iron muscle is highly ineffectual vs seismo, rushing him does not work due to his crush countering side kick and air attacks don't work either due to Necalli's great anti air claw thing. Basically no avenue to attack.

    Nash also completely destroys me by zoning. I have no way of getting in at all.

    And Rashid. Basically anyone with good zoning and strong escapes.

    I don't have too much insight except for this general statement.

    Earlier in the thread when talking about 'sim, it seems that sometimes its just best to eat some fireballs to get in close. Then use your tools properly to not let them squirm away.
  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    Hassun can you upload a video of these matches that you're having problems with? A lot of times these things can be solved with more walking forward and jabbing and parrying but we can help more if we can see it too.
  • HassunHassun Joined: Posts: 117
    Hassun can you upload a video of these matches that you're having problems with? A lot of times these things can be solved with more walking forward and jabbing and parrying but we can help more if we can see it too.
    Er I don't have any capture software or something like that. I guess the matches are saved inside the game though. My CFN id is hahsun.
    As for what I need to do, well my execution is terrible of course so I'm always working on trying to get more out of the few opportunities I do get. I just can't seem to navigate the obstacle courses these characters create and when I finally do I'm never able to stop them from escaping.
  • richglixrichglix Joined: Posts: 106
    Does the pc version let you save the replays as a file or upload them somewhere?
  • robotmeteorsrobotmeteors Joined: Posts: 4
    You can view them from your Capcom fighter profile thing and record them that way. I use Nvidia Shadowplay and just alt+F10 whenever something happened in the last 5 minutes that I think is saveworthy.
  • HassunHassun Joined: Posts: 117
    edited March 2016
    Sorry I have an AMD card, an AMD card relegated to legacy drivers to be more precise.
  • robotmeteorsrobotmeteors Joined: Posts: 4
    You can probably just use Fraps or something like that and then record while viewing your replay. Alternatively, if there's a specific one you want people to see, they can add you to their favorites and watch your replays from within the game.
  • CrusaderCrusader old man Joined: Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What's a good option against Vega (claw) wall dive? I saw someone here mentioned V trigger but he just grabs me out of it when I use it.
  • JoshkazJoshkaz Princess Luna is my Waifu Joined: Posts: 15,342
    If you see him do it then IAEXSPD or Nj. MP/LP
    should beat it clean.
    "You embarrass me," said Shadow, smiling. Then Shadow took his penis out and picked Cream up. "Let me charge up for a super ejaculation!" Shadow laid Cream down on the ground and then took his penis with him, which was already huge and shaking with sex energy, and found Cream's Piggy Bank, which was full of coins and dollars and things to save up for money, so she could buy what she wanted when she had enough inside it. Shadow took it and using his muscular penis, smashed a hole right through the piggy bank so now it was sitting on top of his penis like a hat. Shadow's penis looked like it belonged in a fashion show.
  • richglixrichglix Joined: Posts: 106
    Joshkaz wrote: »
    If you see him do it then IAEXSPD or Nj. MP/LP
    should beat it clean.

    Doesn't standing jab just knock him right out of it too?
  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    Yeah so long as you have the right angle standing jab beats it clean. Even ex version too.
  • AlkipotAlkipot Mayoral Upper! Joined: Posts: 2,035
    M_Ridley wrote: »
    Any tips on Laura? People keep saying it's 6-4 in Gief's favor, but I continually get bodied by Laura. What am I missing?

    You can literally beat most of what Laura can do with headbutt, st hk and jab. I'm dead serious.
    SFV CFN - EvilMuffinMan (Laura, Guile, ABIGAIL!)
    Watch my terrible MvC: I and SFV play here!
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  • MesenkomahaMesenkomaha Joined: Posts: 580
    edited March 2016
    The Vega matchup kind of feels like Dhalsim in that you need to take some damage to get in, but once you're in he doesn't have much to deal with it. He has great distance pokes man..

    This is easily my most annoying matchup.
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