Anyone else not buying into the SFV hype??

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  • ByeBiByeBi HeartProfessor Joined: Posts: 83
    Skiegh wrote: »
    I actually disagree -- I mean, I agree that they just want to hit buttons, but I disagree that they aren't going to get annoyed by things making no sense in context.

    +1 one but less complicated.... casual players want to see hitboxes and hurtboxes aligning pretty closely with the character animation. Similarly, they want moves with big recovery looking like that, and with short recovery looking like that.

    Casual players aren't reading framedata and reading forums, they are playing the game.
  • PhinxPhinx Joined: Posts: 127
    edited August 2016
    Is this the match you're are talking about with Daigo Zoning vs Eita?


    There is hardly any fireball zoning, some rounds we hardly see any fireballs. He spends far more time dashing forward/going on offense then defensive zoning. Ironically a main factor to that so called 'fireball zoning' is parry. How many times did Eita run from half screen and get a grab? Yeah amazing defensive zoning.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,984 mod
    edited August 2016
    Daigo threw at least 20 fireballs in the first round alone. The fireballs aren't SFIV or ST good and that was done on purpose, but if you are to fight Daigo in a casual or tournament match, you're going to catch plasma.

    Go to about 2 hour 38 min in to watch Damdai's Ryu. He does a lot of the pure fireball chucking that you guys like.

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  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,125
    Yeah I was happy seeing old-school Daigo come out of the woodwork. And to think I just posted this the other day lol:
    Quark wrote: »
    I don't think it's far-fetched to say that Daigo's commitment to a patient neutral/zoning game has been holding him back (although I believe he is slowly abandoning this style as he figures out the game more.

    WP Daigo for proving me wrong; I'll happily hold that L if it means we see more play like this in the future.

    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES OFFICIALLY THE WORST PLAYER ON SRK LEAGUE: BRONZE LP: 200 Joined: Posts: 10,107
    Niggas actually want to see other niggas stay full screen and mash out plasma to victory.

    Jesus fuck no wonder you hunchbacks don't like SFV.
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  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,125
    edited August 2016
    Niggas actually want to see other niggas stay close range and mash out buttons to victory.

    Jesus fuck no wonder you hunchbacks like Cammy SFV.

    See? I can do it too.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • FDreamFDream Joined: Posts: 984
    I simply prefer a reaction over reads gameplay, Removing the lag would help.
  • spliffy_bazspliffy_baz Joined: Posts: 156
    edited August 2016
    SF5 is now $24.50 new on amazon.com and $35.99 on steam, five months after release. You know who isn't feeling the hype? Gamers.
  • UroboricUroboric Joined: Posts: 283
    edited August 2016
    SF5 is now $24.50 new on amazon.com and $35.99 on steam, five months after release. You know who isn't feeling the hype? Gamers.

    I wouldn't have expected any different than this unless the game had phenomenal sales. They got the early adopters to pay full price and are now trying to lure in new players to profit from DLC. It's pretty much in line with a lot of other recent games.
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES OFFICIALLY THE WORST PLAYER ON SRK LEAGUE: BRONZE LP: 200 Joined: Posts: 10,107
    Quark wrote: »
    Niggas actually want to see other niggas stay close range and mash out buttons to victory.

    Jesus fuck no wonder you hunchbacks like Cammy SFV.

    See? I can do it too.

    It's a fucking street fight brah ain't nothing tactical about that shit.

    Just go play Street Defender 4 if you hate how 5 plays so much lol
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  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,981

    Similarly Daigo (evil) vs Momochi (Ken) is one of the greatest footsie battles in history. You'll never see a game run like that in 5.

    That game was awesome. But you never know what they'll do with the balances patch(es), I think we will know more about the general direction of SFV after the first balance patch.
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  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,052
    Valoon wrote: »

    Similarly Daigo (evil) vs Momochi (Ken) is one of the greatest footsie battles in history. You'll never see a game run like that in 5.

    That game was awesome. But you never know what they'll do with the balances patch(es), I think we will know more about the general direction of SFV after the first balance patch.

    The only way that happens is if they shave off the lag. I can't see that happening. If anything the characters will get worse if the crying is anything to go by.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,522
    Quark wrote: »
    There weren't a "fuckload of unblockables" in SFIV. I can think of only a few characters that had unblockables, and even then they were mostly patched out in Ultra.

    I had something like 30 for decapre who is an ultra only character
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  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    Phinx wrote: »
    gigglz wrote: »
    Phinx wrote: »
    Is this the match you're are talking about with Daigo Zoning vs Eita?


    There is hardly any fireball zoning, some rounds we hardly see any fireballs. He spends far more time dashing forward/going on offense then defensive zoning. Ironically a main factor to that so called 'fireball zoning' is parry. How many times did Eita run from half screen and get a grab? Yeah amazing defensive zoning.

    "hardly any fireball zoning"..what the hell, even the commentators mention how "odd" it is that daigo stays in the neutral the whole time.
    He capitalises on knockdowns and goes back to zoning shortly after, probably because of ryus superior neutral game.
    Zoning isnt exclusively "chucking plasma" and it isnt purely defensive either. Zoning is making your opponent stay where you want them to stay and deal safe damage, that's exactly what he did.

    Daigo plays a zoning game in this. I wouldnt even think of calling that an offensive match

    Outside of the first round, we see and average of 5 fireballs and there are several times he goes in without scoring a knockdown. The defensive zoning and neutral doesn't come close to -

    Compare the first round (which is probable one of the better rounds from that sfv match), how much more work do we see from any round of SF4. Use of more normals, far better space control (the battle to control space and neutral was way better), timing, dashing/punishing, much stronger fireball game (with a variety in buttons for speed) and ex meter use, trying to utilize ultra, many combination of strings instead of taking it in turns. While in SFV Daigo walks back throwing fireballs sparingly and uses a lot of crouch mp into fireball or sweep. Where is all the excitement from the commentators?

    focus mechanics obliterating the neutral game? The neutral game of any round in that Valle/Daigo match was better than the best rounds from that SFV game
    dp fadc'ing being a free get out of jail card? Yeah we saw all these fadc's spammed.... costing grey life and meter yet is free and why isn't it spammed? Comebacks because they were using 4 ultras per round! Valle didn't just comeback with ultra. And look at that SFV round 3 Ryu combo. So easy for 60% damage.

    SF4 has many problems, a lot were character specific too. But that match clearly shows why Valle isn't playing Ryu anymore.

    But Valle and Daigo only play that ABSURDLY long plasma chucking game exactly because defense is too strong in that game.

    Going offense in SF4 just isnt as rewarding as in SFV, so why would they do it, it's a skewed risk/reward. You get more out of staying behind chucking plasma than by going in and pressuring. If you know Daigos earlier matches (Balrog in ST, Ken in 3S) he is(/was?) kind of an aggressive player.
    As I already said, Daigo is playing the exact same game as in the video you posted, a zoning game, with the only change that he can capitalise on his reads with way more damage, and I actually like that.

    I like that SFV is more offensive, even when playing a zoning game. As a zoner, I want to be rewarded when I can my opponent do what I want. Getting rewarded with one anti air and back to zoning is tedious. I want to HURT my opponent when I get the chance.

    I think that SFV is better in that regard, compared to SF4 specifically. The zoning is not the same, but the doesnt make it worse (at least not for me)
  • JoeyTonesJoeyTones Joined: Posts: 1,079
    edited August 2016
    This game is gonna be fine once they reduce it to 5-6f.
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,575
    Hm
    JoeyTones wrote: »
    This game is gonna be fine once they reduce it to 5-6f.

    Yeah, the sale is over now. Don't you have the game yet?
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,904
    Phinx wrote: »

    .

    I highly belive half of your jokers run around in the steamforums.
    Everytime someone wants to tell about SFIV "awesome" or "better" neutralgame,they come with either this or the Momochi Match from EVO 2015.
    Thats fine they want to defend their point of view.

    But in all seriousness, how the hell are 2 fucking matches are supposed to support you,if the majority just takes a big shit on them?
    What about Sako vs Tokido? Where all you see is Kunais,Vortex and Plasma all over the place?
    Or the early SFIV days that were nothing other than TIGER SHOOT,TIGER UPPERCUT,HADOKEN,SHORYUKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What about AE? AE was basicly Divekick and Vortex Fighter IV.
    How about the fucked risk/reward we had during SFIV?
    Vanilla was a zoning festival
    Super was probably the best version
    AE was a Divekick festival
    AE2012 was a Vortex festival
    Ultra was a defensiv festival,that abused the problems of the system to it's very limits.

    To hell with that shit, you can't use 2 videos to defend 8 years of utter trash and BS.
    I'm out of here.
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  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,575
    Cammy!!! - don't go!!!!!!!!
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • UroboricUroboric Joined: Posts: 283
    I think it's unfortunate that SF4 was so quickly abandoned for the shiny new thing before it was proven. It should have stayed in the EVO lineup for another year minimum.

    The past few major events I've only really watched top 16, the new game is just too boring to watch when the stakes aren't high.
  • gigglzgigglz Joined: Posts: 493
    reh wrote: »
    While earlier SF4 versions had problems, they shouldn't set the bar for you.
    A developer should try to improve a game (or series), he doesn't start from scratch.
    Nobody wants to see/endure another vortex clown fiesta, eh?
    They did their mistakes (lots of them), but they should have learned a lesson or two from them,
    what the community likes/hates. Engines changed, games changed, times change.
    Lots of people didn't even know vanilla, started with super and didn't know shit until AE/2012, I guess.
    If you are at 50%, you should try to get near to the 100%.
    Adding 10% on the left but removing 10% from the right is not a help for that mission.
    Some people just expected way more from SF5 and aren't too happy, not buying the hype - I can understand some of it.
    I don't really like the game too much either due to various reasons, but well. (even though my hate is directed to technically related stuff and capcom in general)
    Both sides have their points, but I do know that I didn't get the hype for SFV I expected.

    considering all this, we shouldnt forget that we're comparing SF4 last "ultimate" iteration with 'vanilla' sf5
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES OFFICIALLY THE WORST PLAYER ON SRK LEAGUE: BRONZE LP: 200 Joined: Posts: 10,107
    That recent tournament match between ISDD and Ryan heart was straight heat and ISDD's Guile was an unmovable wall until Ryan started going full retard with Ken and took the set. Most of that whole match was Guile standing his ground in the corner using c.fp and flash kick to keep him out.

    When people say this game has no defense or no zoning it sounds like they're mad you can't stun someone in 2 hits with a fireball like in ST.

    That match between Valle and Daigo was nice but fuck I can't stand watching people just shoot fireballs for a million year just to control the neutral for a little bit.


    Then again maybe the shoto archetype isn't for me.
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  • UroboricUroboric Joined: Posts: 283
    That's what SF is all about though. There are so many other games that are just non-stop offense. SF was the outlier in that regard and that's what many people liked about it.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,125
    edited August 2016
    gigglz wrote: »

    But Valle and Daigo only play that ABSURDLY long plasma chucking game exactly because defense is too strong in that game.

    Going offense in SF4 just isnt as rewarding as in SFV, so why would they do it, it's a skewed risk/reward. You get more out of staying behind chucking plasma than by going in and pressuring.

    "Defense" is a fuzzy word since its not clear if you're talking about defense in a neutral scenario or in a pressure scenario. Against pressure there were certainly options that could be considered too strong, like crouch teching, backdashes, and the much despised FADC DP. But I don't think many would complain about the neutral game being too defensive (in fact people complained endlessly about characters like Yun and Fuerte who had ways of bypassing most space control tools.)

    The reason Valle and Daigo are playing the plasma game here isn't that offense wasn't rewarding in SFIV, but that you had to be more careful about how you started your offense (well, most of the cast had to be careful about it). You can see that many of those rounds were still decided off of who managed to secure a knockdown or corner carry; the only difference between that and SFV is that SFIV's neutral game tended to last longer due to better overall space control (not just fireballs but AAs and pokes, along with the walk speed to use them effectively). Again, there were some characters who could do whatever they pleased in neutral but I view that as a character problem rather than a systematic one.

    I would be fine with pressure being as strong as it is in SFV if you had to play a more patient neutral game in order to start that pressure. But TBH Capcom may have screwed themselves by removing proximity normals, since it's now a lot harder to buff a character's neutral game without buffing their pressure game (and vice versa).
    Post edited by Quark on
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  • vitalvital Joined: Posts: 324
    Hopefully they throw in some of the missing character archetypes and fix the delay
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,984 mod
    edited August 2016
    vital wrote: »
    Hopefully they throw in some of the missing character archetypes and fix the delay

    Well Combofiend called Guile a "wall" so that's probably the closest you're going to get to that archetype. Unless they pull a UMVC3 and go "oh yeah we heard rushdown was too stupid so we'll give you zoning characters and improve the zoning of other hybrid characters". Except the best zoning characters were the ones that also had ridiculous rushdown.


    SFIV was the opposite where they pushed to make offensive characters stronger in AE. Zoning was still alright, but not like it was in Vanilla/Super and there were already plenty of characters that could circumvent the zoning in Vanilla.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • vitalvital Joined: Posts: 324
    By that I guess I meant more of a traditional rekka character, some comboable command throws, dive kickers, air fireballers, a more plasma heavy character
  • vitalvital Joined: Posts: 324
    What im really saying is

    give me Yang ono
  • gorillacatgorillacat Joined: Posts: 368
    Uroboric wrote: »
    That's what SF is all about though. There are so many other games that are just non-stop offense. SF was the outlier in that regard and that's what many people liked about it.

    Daigo won that tournament by playing a defensive pace and strong neutral, so apparently, it's still what SF is about.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,984 mod
    edited August 2016
    Dive kicks are more or less banned from SFV. I highly expect Yang's dive kicks if he makes it to be greatly nerfed and not the center of his gameplan. Cammy is the closest you're going to get to a character that centers around dives.


    The other stuff could happen eventually.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,866
    Even if Yang/Yun still have their divekicks I don't see them being a major threat with aa jabs being prevalent in the game.
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  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,125
    edited August 2016
    I dunno, just seems like every SF game, people get attached to the nuances of that specific game. I don't like the nuances of SFIV. They're just not interesting to me. You can find neutral game in other SF games without SFIV's messy engine. Plus you had plenty of characters that were really strong and disrespected neutral. Capcom Cup Finals pretty much showed that no matter how good you space E.Ryu, Yun is ready to come in and force you to commit to a lot of jumps and things that aren't shoto like in order to win. SFIV isn't really a great mark for block strings and pressure since that was the first game to start creating the low block stun and big reversal windows that people hate any way.

    Like Cipher said, there's plenty of really messy SFIV matches to post too. Like stuff that makes me glad that's not the main SF game anymore.

    I agree. The only reason I used SFIV as a reference point is that it's the SF game I've spent the most time watching and playing by far (and I assume that goes for many others in this thread too.) What frustrates me is that if you bring up even one aspect of 4 that you like better than 5, people start ranting about unblockables, vortex, crouch teching, etc. as if these were the ONLY mechanics that distinguished SF4 from SF5. While in reality many of us enjoyed SF4 *despite* all that garbage, and not *because* of it.
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