Guile Beginners Thread: Easy Operation

synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast?Joined: Posts: 1,132
edited June 2016 in Guile
Beginners guide: WIP

There are a few things missing and some possibly incorrect information, but this is an introduction to Guile by Justin Wong:
Post edited by syngin on
another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...

Comments

  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    edited June 2016
    You’re just starting to learn Guile, and you don’t know where to start. Well, this is the place to pick up on the beginning concepts for the character.

    === NOTE: If you want to become the OP for this thread so you can maintain the top post to aggregate the thread's information here, contact me via the SRK messaging system and I will be able to convert you to become the OP for this thread. ===
    Post edited by jchensor on
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • MeatSauceMeatSauce Joined: Posts: 6
    Hey there,

    I'm having a tough time adjusting to the new guile. Any one interested in running a few sets?
  • TebsGTebsG Joined: Posts: 7
    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to lockdown my character, but I find Guile pretty interesting, obviously it's matchup dependent but is there a general gameplan someone can explain to me with Guile so I at least have some fundamentals I can work towards?

    Thanks!
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    TebsG wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to lockdown my character, but I find Guile pretty interesting, obviously it's matchup dependent but is there a general gameplan someone can explain to me with Guile so I at least have some fundamentals I can work towards?

    Thanks!

    You definitely want to learn how to zone effectively and get comfortable poking for a small, but continuous life drain. Check out some of the doyanbo videos in the video thread for inspiration.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • WikumWikum Joined: Posts: 3,018
    edited July 2016
    Anyone on the west coast of America (or American in general really) who wants to learn Guile is free to add me on PSN and send me a message if they want advice or games -

    Post edited by Wikum on
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    Wikum wrote: »
    Anyone on the west coast of America (or American in general really) who wants to learn Guile is free to add me on PSN and send me a message if they want advice or games -

    PSN Pdx-Uk-Atl-WTF

    I'm going to add you and test out the trans-pacific cables. On paper, it should be half-decent...
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • TebsGTebsG Joined: Posts: 7
    syngin wrote: »
    TebsG wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to lockdown my character, but I find Guile pretty interesting, obviously it's matchup dependent but is there a general gameplan someone can explain to me with Guile so I at least have some fundamentals I can work towards?

    Thanks!

    You definitely want to learn how to zone effectively and get comfortable poking for a small, but continuous life drain. Check out some of the doyanbo videos in the video thread for inspiration.

    Thanks :)
  • WikumWikum Joined: Posts: 3,018
    syngin wrote: »
    Wikum wrote: »
    Anyone on the west coast of America (or American in general really) who wants to learn Guile is free to add me on PSN and send me a message if they want advice or games -

    PSN Pdx-Uk-Atl-WTF

    I'm going to add you and test out the trans-pacific cables. On paper, it should be half-decent...

    go for it
  • NoCombosNoGrabsOKNoCombosNoGrabsOK Guilestuile™ is coming. Joined: Posts: 22
    I'm unable to execute (c.lk, c.lp xx FK xx CA) after a cross up j.lk, but if I do (c.lp, c.lp xx FK xx CA) it works every time. Anyone else have this problem?
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    I'm unable to execute (c.lk, c.lp xx FK xx CA) after a cross up j.lk, but if I do (c.lp, c.lp xx FK xx CA) it works every time. Anyone else have this problem?

    The only variable I've seen is the height that the j.lk connects at. If it's high, you'll get more time for charge and you'll be closer when the fk hits (high j.lk leads to the fk hitting on the first active frame, mid j.lk hit makes the fk connect at 2nd or 3rd active frame).
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • NoCombosNoGrabsOKNoCombosNoGrabsOK Guilestuile™ is coming. Joined: Posts: 22
    syngin wrote: »
    I'm unable to execute...

    The only variable I've seen is the height that the j.lk connects at. If it's high, you'll get more time for charge and you'll be closer when the fk hits (high j.lk leads to the fk hitting on the first active frame, mid j.lk hit makes the fk connect at 2nd or 3rd active frame).

    Interesting, but I'm not sure it explains why c.lp c.lp works for me but not c.lk c.lp.
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    syngin wrote: »
    I'm unable to execute...

    The only variable I've seen is the height that the j.lk connects at. If it's high, you'll get more time for charge and you'll be closer when the fk hits (high j.lk leads to the fk hitting on the first active frame, mid j.lk hit makes the fk connect at 2nd or 3rd active frame).

    Interesting, but I'm not sure it explains why c.lp c.lp works for me but not c.lk c.lp.

    Exactly - it's technically easier with c.lk as it's 14f long (c.lp is 13), so it's something you're doing. Turn on inputs and slow it all down until you find the problem.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • NoCombosNoGrabsOKNoCombosNoGrabsOK Guilestuile™ is coming. Joined: Posts: 22
    edited July 2016
    syngin wrote: »
    syngin wrote: »
    I'm unable to execute...

    The only variable I've seen is the height that the j.lk connects at. If it's high, you'll get more time for charge and you'll be closer when the fk hits (high j.lk leads to the fk hitting on the first active frame, mid j.lk hit makes the fk connect at 2nd or 3rd active frame).

    Interesting, but I'm not sure it explains why c.lp c.lp works for me but not c.lk c.lp.

    Exactly - it's technically easier with c.lk as it's 14f long (c.lp is 13), so it's something you're doing. Turn on inputs and slow it all down until you find the problem.

    I think I figured it out. (c.LK, c.LP) is a chain rather than a link or target combo so the c.LK is canceling into the c.LP, reducing the number of frames available for charging and directional input. (c.LP, c.LP) can combo as a link or chain. I've been linking the c.LPs which is more frames than chaining (c.LK, c.LP).

    The strange thing is, though, the FK will usually come out, but not the CA. My understanding is that the CA requires less charge than the FK so if the FK is coming out, charge time should be fine right? Also, I can execute both variations after a non-crossup jump in with 99% success. I have done the crossup c.LK c.LP variation literally zero times.
    Post edited by NoCombosNoGrabsOK on
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    I think I figured it out. (c.LK, c.LP) is a chain rather than a link or target combo so the c.LK is canceling into the c.LP, reducing the number of frames available for charging and directional input. (c.LP, c.LP) can combo as a link or chain. I've been linking the c.LPs which is more frames than chaining (c.LK, c.LP).

    The strange thing is, though, the FK will usually come out, but not the CA. My understanding is that the CA requires less charge than the FK so if the FK is coming out, charge time should be fine right? Also, I can execute both variations after a non-crossup jump in with 99% success. I have done the crossup c.LK c.LP variation literally zero times.

    The CA is 40f; FK is 45f. You have enough time assuming you hit db, but the cross-up can mess with your back-charge (not down-charge though).

    I don't have too much of an issue with this combo and all I'm doing input wise is:
    uf~df (the jump and cross-up) c.lk~c.lp xx fk xx ca

    Dunno what's hurting your execution.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • NoCombosNoGrabsOKNoCombosNoGrabsOK Guilestuile™ is coming. Joined: Posts: 22
    syngin wrote: »
    I think I figured it out. (c.LK, c.LP) is a chain rather than a link or target combo so the c.LK is canceling into the c.LP, reducing the number of frames available for charging and directional input. (c.LP, c.LP) can combo as a link or chain. I've been linking the c.LPs which is more frames than chaining (c.LK, c.LP).

    The strange thing is, though, the FK will usually come out, but not the CA. My understanding is that the CA requires less charge than the FK so if the FK is coming out, charge time should be fine right? Also, I can execute both variations after a non-crossup jump in with 99% success. I have done the crossup c.LK c.LP variation literally zero times.

    The CA is 40f; FK is 45f. You have enough time assuming you hit db, but the cross-up can mess with your back-charge (not down-charge though).

    It must be charge time then. I didn't consider how back charge resets on a crossup but down charge doesn't.

    Really though, I'm at the point now where I want to just resign myself to using c.LP c.LP, but I know the time will come when it will get blocked but the low would have opened them up and won it for me.

    Thanks for the advice.
  • avafansavafans Joined: Posts: 8
    what do you guys do to make s.hp, c.mp to link consistently? I find myself dropping this more than I should
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    edited August 2016
    avafans wrote: »
    what do you guys do to make s.hp, c.mp to link consistently? I find myself dropping this more than I should

    Straight up, it's just practice. How do you practice your execution?

    When I go about learning a link, I set a target of being able to push the dummy from one side to the other and back without a drop. i.e., start on the left side (Guile on the left), dash forward, s.hp, c.mp xx boom, repeat until I hit the right wall, jump over, do it again.

    Some people like to double-tap buttons when linking, I prefer to single tap. Either way though, you just need to keep doing it until intellectually, you know you can land it on-demand.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • infrequent lurkerinfrequent lurker I'm not here Joined: Posts: 1,514
    I can do St. HP to Cr.MP fairly consistently. My problem is a lot of the time I can't get my flash kick or sonic boom to come out. Any tips?
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    I can do St. HP to Cr.MP fairly consistently. My problem is a lot of the time I can't get my flash kick or sonic boom to come out. Any tips?

    Assuming you're getting your :db: charge quickly, try cancelling into the boom or fk later than "feels" right. The cancel can be delayed a noticeable amount.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • infrequent lurkerinfrequent lurker I'm not here Joined: Posts: 1,514
    Yeah I try to hit down-back as soon as I hit Fierce punch. I'll try the delayed method. Thanks.

    Oh what's up with flash kick? Sometimes I can use it to beat cross-ups but most of the time it completely whiffs.
  • Neil HarringtonNeil Harrington Joined: Posts: 41
    I was messing around in training mode and realized that guiles flash kicks all do the same damage except for the ex one. Why? whats the point of using different versions other than the slight range increase? ryu's shoryukens do different damage depending on the punch used. It's not even invincible on start up and gets crush countered. Sometimes I think capcom did not think this game through.
  • TebsGTebsG Joined: Posts: 7
    hey guys I have a pretty noob question but it's something I am struggling to find any reliable information on.

    Are there any typical scenarios that Guile uses to get in, other than jumping HK/HP?

    I feel like my zoning game is fine for my level (super/ultra bronze), but I spent some time practicing simple small combos like HP, c. MP, FK. But I am having such a hard time setting up a scenario where I can use it (unless I jump in), so most of my games end up being me winning from just punishing my opponents jumping in all the time.

    I am trying to practice my crush counter (f. HP) then dashing in to follow up, but I'm finding the timing extremely hard - it just gets blocked half the time... does anyone have any suggestions on what I can practice or scenarios to look out for where I should be dashing in and punishing?
  • Neil HarringtonNeil Harrington Joined: Posts: 41
    TebsG wrote: »
    hey guys I have a pretty noob question but it's something I am struggling to find any reliable information on.

    Are there any typical scenarios that Guile uses to get in, other than jumping HK/HP?

    I feel like my zoning game is fine for my level (super/ultra bronze), but I spent some time practicing simple small combos like HP, c. MP, FK. But I am having such a hard time setting up a scenario where I can use it (unless I jump in), so most of my games end up being me winning from just punishing my opponents jumping in all the time.

    I am trying to practice my crush counter (f. HP) then dashing in to follow up, but I'm finding the timing extremely hard - it just gets blocked half the time... does anyone have any suggestions on what I can practice or scenarios to look out for where I should be dashing in and punishing?

    I'm ultra gold rank and I haven't been using the HP- MP- sonic boom/flash kick combo that much. I only use it if the enemy is stunned. You can combo it off of a JHK- MP- LPsonic boom- vtrigger- dash forward-Hp- MP- Sonic boom gattling or flash kick.

    I've tried doing the backfist dash follow up but I'm not technical enough to pull it off consistently online or during the clutch moments. One combo I've been using off is Backfist crush counter- second backfist- vtrigger- ex sonic boom or sonic hurricane. It's pretty easy to do and it does good damage.
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    I was messing around in training mode and realized that guiles flash kicks all do the same damage except for the ex one. Why? whats the point of using different versions other than the slight range increase? ryu's shoryukens do different damage depending on the punch used. It's not even invincible on start up and gets crush countered. Sometimes I think capcom did not think this game through.

    The differences between the flash kicks is subtle, but interesting. I like that they have the same numbers (knock-down and damage is the same on the non-EX FKs) as it means I'm choosing based on utility rather than damage potential. If you want a bit of a break-down, check the oki thread - first post talks about the variations of FK a little. The TL;DR version is:
    In grounded combos, always use hk.fk as your oki will likely be more stable.
    For AA use lk.fk as it starts up quicker (lk=4, mk=5, hk=6, ex=4) and gets full invulnerability quicker (lk=4-6, mk=5-7, hk=6-8, ex=1-9)
    TebsG wrote: »
    I am trying to practice my crush counter (f. HP) then dashing in to follow up, but I'm finding the timing extremely hard - it just gets blocked half the time... does anyone have any suggestions on what I can practice or scenarios to look out for where I should be dashing in and punishing?

    Go into training mode, set dummy to guard after first attack, set wake-up action to a standing 3f normal, set recovery to back recovery. Jump or dash in and use an fk combo, hit the ground, dash forward, f.hp (will crush), dash forward, then: s.hp c.mp xx fk, then repeat.

    Once you have that down 100%, add another wake-up action of crouch-block and practice not dashing in for the follow-up combo if the dummy blocks rather than pressing the 3f button.

    The alternative is to set the crush state to random and just do a raw f.hp then only dash in if it crushes, but I think having the combo in the front helps in executing the sequence under pressure.

    ex:
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • TebsGTebsG Joined: Posts: 7
    Can anyone explain to me the benefits of being able to land j. LK, c. LK, c. LP, SK vs the alternate c. LP, c.LP, SK which feels a little easier?
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    TebsG wrote: »
    Can anyone explain to me the benefits of being able to land j. LK, c. LK, c. LP, SK vs the alternate c. LP, c.LP, SK which feels a little easier?

    I assume SK means FK?

    Opening with a c.lk means that they have to crouch to block it (c.lp can be blocked standing). e.g., jump as if you're going to cross-up, and go straight to c.lk~c.lp xx fk (empty jump low).
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • TebsGTebsG Joined: Posts: 7
    edited August 2016
    Thanks @syngin - i think you single handedly dragged me up from super bronze to ultra bronze with your advice so far :)

    I have a bit of a general question that's been bothering me lately but it might not be easy to answer - any thoughts at all would be appreciated.

    I feel like I've got the hang of the booms and the FK timing.
    I've almost locked down the loop even though I have no hope of using it in a game, it's just fun.
    I've nailed j. HK/HP, s. HP, c. MP, Boom/FK (and any variation of this).
    I've nailed c. LK, c. LP, FK.
    My anti air feels pretty good and I'm getting better daily in general defence... still pretty bad though.

    Does anyone have some thoughts on what I should be working on next? I'm pretty new to fighting games in general, and i'm only playing Guile.

    I was thinking something of the following;

    Neutral game - my footsies aren't great, finding it hard to work on them too much though as I just end up defaulting back to zoning.
    The combo: s. MP, c. MP, Boom - I've seen top Guiles use this a ton, I barely use s. MP ever.
    Some crossup defence... getting crossup'd in the corner by Mika over, and over, and over... stops me sleeping at night.
    Some way to break the habbit of pressing down/back waiting and just letting my opponents get into whatever range they like.

    I'm slowly making my way through Gief's gym which is helping a lot, but I feel like I am probably missing some Guile specific combos/play style that could greatly impact my play - somehow I think just flash kicking and jumping in on bronzies over and over isn't going to take me too far!
  • KinesiologistKinesiologist Joined: Posts: 12
    TebsG wrote: »
    Thanks @syngin - i think you single handedly dragged me up from super bronze to ultra bronze with your advice so far :)

    Does anyone have some thoughts on what I should be working on next? I'm pretty new to fighting games in general, and i'm only playing Guile.

    I have to thank Syngin as well, his oki guide got me over the plateau from Super Silver to Gold! Some tips that helped me reach the next level:

    -Work on optimal V-trigger scenarios and when to pop it. Activating off a sweep is usually my go-to with Guile. Other favorite times is after a back throw -> meaty HK -> V-trigger (huge frame advantage here on block or hit).

    -Character/matchup specific V-Reversals. Study frame data and know when to use it when your opponent has momentum and frame advantage on your block, i.e.: Bison's EX scissor kick, EX Devil's Reverse, Mika's dropkick, Ryu's b.HK on your wakeup, etc.

    -Use more s.MP! It's fast (5 frames) for a medium with nice frame advantage (+3 on block) and a great frame trap button.

    Otherwise, nice to see another warrior out there reppin' Guile. Keep grinding those ranked matches, spend some time in practice mode, and keep us updated on your progress!
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    TebsG wrote: »
    Thanks @syngin - i think you single handedly dragged me up from super bronze to ultra bronze with your advice so far :)

    Happy to help. I threw up a couple of short videos on Twitter of basic traps:




    s.mp is a really big deal for Guile - as @Kinesiologist said, the frame advantage is fantastic on block or hit, but it also gives you enough time to get back-charge after a dash. Here's something you can practice to help get your situational reactions down:


    fk only on counter-hit, otherwise boom.
    I have to thank Syngin as well, his oki guide got me over the plateau from Super Silver to Gold!

    Glad it's of use - still a fair bit of work to do, but I can feel it coming together. It's great to be able to approach a knock-down situation with confidence.

    I like that b.throw s.hk xx VT deal - I reckon you could OS the VT to cover KDR and KD - something like this:
    KDR: b.throw s.hk xx VT
    KD: b.throw s.hk s.mp b.hp xx VT
    i.e., cancel into the VT during the hitstun of s.hk, but if it whiffs (opp. is using KD instead of KDR) you get a frame-perfect b.hp meaty into VT (even more frame advantage).

    Speaking of VT, I posted a couple of ideas for "non-standard" VT activations which might have some use:




    The last setup in the second video is a last-frame meaty :tup:
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • BixHDBixHD Semi-lurker Joined: Posts: 193
    Hey I'm picking up Guile as a sub and I was wondering is it a better idea to focus on the traditional way (defensive, other game fundamentals) first or focus more on his offensive game first due to the nature of SFV?
    not really active anymore
    usually playing Yang, Ryu, and Cammy in every SF

    Hampton Roads VA FGC info:
    Facebook group
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    the usual hub, That Game Store is relocating (again) to get away from the increasing crime in the area.
  • synginsyngin Steel-toe breakfast? Joined: Posts: 1,132
    BixHD wrote: »
    Hey I'm picking up Guile as a sub and I was wondering is it a better idea to focus on the traditional way (defensive, other game fundamentals) first or focus more on his offensive game first due to the nature of SFV?

    Personally I think the former is a better foundation to work from.
    another lp? heh... workin me to the bone...
  • NAWTDABEEZNAWTDABEEZ Joined: Posts: 4
    Hi. Im trying to grind ranked matches with guile but im losing real hard. I hope yall can watch some of my replays and give some feedback on my gameplay?? Thanks alot!

    IGN: NAWTDABEEZ
  • FDreamFDream Joined: Posts: 865
    How do you guys input the neutral hp in combo's or in general? This is the hardest part in playing guile for me and i am losing out on dmg.
  • TerribleMattTerribleMatt Joined: Posts: 39
    immediately after you press the hp button your stick/pad should go straight to down back, when you input the cr mp (after the st hp) you can delay the flash kick or sonic boom just a little bit and it will give you more time to charge while still comboing
  • imdahmanimdahman Joined: Posts: 139
    Is there a basic guide for suggest BnB combos, and just some basic situational combos such as punishes? I'm looking for really, really basic stuff so I can build up and learn Guile. I also wanna see guides about spacing with Guile and best strategies to use Guile - is he a rush down? is he a read and react? I would like to get these things.

    The video up top is nice, but he just goes over things Guile can do, rather than very clearly laying out "here's a combo everyone should know", or "this is a basic bnb combo. This is a good punish combo"
    - imdahman

    To me, the extraordinary aspect of martial arts lies in its simplicity. The easy way is also the right way, and martial arts is nothing at all special; the closer to the true way of martial arts, the less wastage of expression there is.
    - Bruce Lee
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge The Age of Murder and Storm Joined: Posts: 16,184
    imdahman wrote: »
    Is there a basic guide for suggest BnB combos, and just some basic situational combos such as punishes? I'm looking for really, really basic stuff so I can build up and learn Guile. I also wanna see guides about spacing with Guile and best strategies to use Guile - is he a rush down? is he a read and react? I would like to get these things.

    The video up top is nice, but he just goes over things Guile can do, rather than very clearly laying out "here's a combo everyone should know", or "this is a basic bnb combo. This is a good punish combo"
    Try these



    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

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  • CapMasterCapMaster OG Pad Player Joined: Posts: 716 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited May 26
    What would be considered to be Guile's best whiff punishers? Where I stand right now is that if my opponent is walking me down, and can instantly react to and punish Sonic Booms, I'm a little unsure of what to do.

    In other words, how should I play when my opponent has more or less taken away Sonic Booms and anti-airs out of my arsenal?

    UPDATE 5/25/2017: I practiced a lot since I last made this post, and I would like to note for anyone else who may have been reading this that I have had success wiff punishing with crouching strong (wiff punishing with low strong cancelled into super can be especially deflating for your opponent), Backfist, Burn Straight, and even Guile's sweep, which has deceptively long range. I've had a lot of success catching extended limbs with it.

    I would also like to note that standing short seems to be good for protecting yourself at certain distances. It can catch an opponent's poke at maximum range.
    Post edited by CapMaster on
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  • SubSonicAKSubSonicAK Joined: Posts: 37
    Hey all,

    Giving Guile a try as I want to properly learn a charge character for the first time. Quick question though... I've been relying a lot of s.LP, cr.MP XX boom just to get into the habit of confirming it. Obviously it combos on hit, but isn't a safe blockstring. It works at lower levels, but with a boom's start up there's a 9 frame gap and I'm getting into a bag habit of using it. Should I stop my string at cr.MP on block, choose another follow-up or use another block string instead?

    (Basically, looking for a safe block string or two to use. All the info and vids I can find is mostly from S1)
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