"Smash Faces, Get Money." The Balrog/Boxer Matchup Thread

ShikuruShikuru Sometimes there's an "EX" in my name.Joined: Posts: 31
edited August 2016 in Balrog
Similar to Karin's matchup thread, I want to compile all pointers in this discussion into this post. And maybe the next one as well...

MATCHUPS

Ryu:
ZAYMAX wrote: »
There's no gimmicks involved. Balrog has naturally always had an edge over Ryu and similar shoto's.

The MU ends up being all about the neutral, neither can jump because Ryu has DP and Boxer has st.mp and cr.hp.

Ryu has to inch forward to make dash punch spacing harder for Rog. He has to pre-emptively stick out limbs (like low forward buffer tatsu) to beat dash punches. He has to watch fireballs because of TAP, super, and even more-so in SFV because of V-skill

When you look at their previous MU's in different games you'll find that it often ends up looking the same despite each character having new tools.

Chun-li:
ZAYMAX wrote: »
st.mk whiff punishes her main poke (st.hp) into dash low is my go-to so I stay in there for pressure. st.hp is decent but can get stuffed almost for free by her b.hp. cr.mk to beat st.rh but it's pretty hard. The neutral isn't impossible, def winnable and Balrog gets way more off the meterless whiff punish confirms.

Just to add, Balrog actually has a pretty decent keep away game from Chun, she can't take too much white life cause 900 health and she can't fireball because v-skill p. And dash straight is always annoying when you have to approach Rog. Just careful when she has super or meter.

Charlie Nash:

M. Bison/Dictator:
BrokenPSX wrote: »
Froztey wrote: »
Bison seems best when you turtle waiting for a chance to steal a turn and aiming to jump at him from angles where his cr.hp will lose to j.hk
Pretty much this. Bison's normal are all positive on block except his sweep I think. Trying to counter poke will just get you frame trapped. Just let him push you out of range than try to catch him on your approach. Also his scissor kicks are all negative on block (except his EX one is +1) so wait for him to throw that out and then lay on your pressure. He is a charge character too so dash throws or Dash Punches with an empty Vskill cancel to throw can work real good. His fastest normal is 4 frames so use your lk target combo in reset situations and you should beat anything he tries unless he just blocks.

Cammy:

Birdie:

Ken:

Necalli:
ZAYMAX wrote: »
I actually feel both characters wanna whiff punish each other more than they want to be poking at each other. Balrog wins that war until Necalli is in v-trigger IMO.

Use poke tools (cr.mk, st.hp) to check walk forwards and bait attempted whiff punishes from Necalli (like his st.mk, st.rh, cr.mp, cr.mk, st.hp)

Then whiff punish with cr.mp or st.mk buffered into dash punches.

Also know your punishes through some of Necalli's offense, like v-skill through blockstrings that end in stomp since it's considered a projectile.

Good Necalli's will use divekick to throw off your anti-airs, be alert so you don't get stuffed.

Also don't press buttons after a close quarters seismo by Necalli, you'll only end up taking a CC rh, better to step back and reset neutral after blocking, or v-reversal to guarantee a KD and pressure.

All I can think of atm about this MU.

Vega/Claw:

R. Mika:

Rashid:

Karin:

Zangief:
ZAYMAX wrote: »
They can both body each other but I feel it's whoever wins the neutral. Gief has the tools to counter Rog but he takes a risk in doing so (v-skill = white life and st.hp loses to lows) Rog has the safer approach with well spaced dash straights or the occasional ex dash straight/low which are safe on block.

Laura:
ZAYMAX wrote: »
Get a good life lead in the neutral and wall up. Don't go in unnecessarily, one missed meaty where Laura can sneak in her st.mk into VT can literally end you. Her ex fb is incredibly good as it is too slow to V-skill through especially when Laura is walking forward with it active. Laura has very easy meaties off all her KD's but they usually can be v-reversal'd for a guaranteed hit.

Basically.

1) You win the neutral, st.hp, cr.mp are good pokes. St.mk/cr.hk is a really good whiff punish normal. J.mk is also a good jump in against her.

2) Pressure Laura without meter and vtrigger as she doesn't get much. Usually if you're beating Laura in neutral they resort to throwing a ex fb midscreen. Which is good, because it's not being used as a mix-up tool.

3) her lp elbow is -2 on block, remember to take your turn after that. Get started with a jab.

It's still a hard match up because Laura is capable of playing solid without having to go ham. So read the type of player and adjust. Balrog really rules the neutral here though, so make it last as long as possible.

Dhalsim:

F.A.N.G:
Post edited by Shikuru on
"There is no knowledge that is not power."
PSN: Shikuru-chan
«1

Comments

  • ShikuruShikuru Sometimes there's an "EX" in my name. Joined: Posts: 31
    MATCHUPS (Continued)

    Alex:

    Guile:

    Ibuki:

    Balrog/Boxer:

    Juri:

    Urien:
    "There is no knowledge that is not power."
    PSN: Shikuru-chan
  • UnlimitedUnlimited V has come to. Joined: Posts: 196
    Would it possibly be better organized to have individual threads for each match up like they do in most of the other chars' forums? Some posters have a hard time keeping their posts updated and its kinda deterring to have to waddle through walls of text on 20 different matchups for just info on one of them...
    SSF4: Balrog, Chun li
    SFV: Necalli, Balrog
    KoF XIV: Luong/Terry/Mature
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,128
    I got some thoughts on Laura and ibuki, but have no idea how to go about posting it.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "It looks just like an NRS game. For a lot of you guys it seems denial is just a river in Africa" - Drunkards_Walk
  • Janitor NedJanitor Ned Joined: Posts: 139
    This one is probably obvious but if Guile or Birdie attempts a V-Skill while you have CA ready, they gone.
  • BrokenPSXBrokenPSX Joined: Posts: 47
    edited July 2016
    Here is a pointer for you. Don't fight Zangief.
    PSN: BrokenPSX
    Xbox Live: BrokenXBX
    Steam: Broken230
    Street Fighter V: BrokenPC
    Fightcade: Broken230
  • J-MouseJ-Mouse Joined: Posts: 29
    Thread needs to be done with spoilers. Impossible to find info otherwise.
    Howyadooken = street fighter greeting lol
  • FIERCEtotheFEINTFIERCEtotheFEINT Joined: Posts: 30
    Do any of you have tips against necalli? I can't seem to do much in this match up. His normals are really oppressive
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    I actually feel both characters wanna whiff punish each other more than they want to be poking at each other. Balrog wins that war until Necalli is in v-trigger IMO.

    Use poke tools (cr.mk, st.hp) to check walk forwards and bait attempted whiff punishes from Necalli (like his st.mk, st.rh, cr.mp, cr.mk, st.hp)

    Then whiff punish with cr.mp or st.mk buffered into dash punches.

    Also know your punishes through some of Necalli's offense, like v-skill through blockstrings that end in stomp since it's considered a projectile.

    Good Necalli's will use divekick to throw off your anti-airs, be alert so you don't get stuffed.

    Also don't press buttons after a close quarters seismo by Necalli, you'll only end up taking a CC rh, better to step back and reset neutral after blocking, or v-reversal to guarantee a KD and pressure.

    All I can think of atm about this MU.
  • FoilFoil Joined: Posts: 136
    just played the gief matchup

    what the actual fuck
  • chadouken!chadouken! less < more Joined: Posts: 4,660
    The best tactic for Gief is to spam 3K + 3P the entire match.
    This SRK nonsense will never stop.
    -jimmy1200, unbanned
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    PrRog says its 5-5 after playing an extensive set with Stupendous. Your thoughts?

    I agree with the 5-5

    I imagine white life and damage trade offs between Rog's normals vs Gief's cr.jab are factors.

    And also both being able to wreck each other on KD.
  • BrokenPSXBrokenPSX Joined: Posts: 47
    edited July 2016
    ZAYMAX wrote: »
    PrRog says its 5-5 after playing an extensive set with Stupendous. Your thoughts?

    I agree with the 5-5

    I imagine white life and damage trade offs between Rog's normals vs Gief's cr.jab are factors.

    And also both being able to wreck each other on KD.

    I played several matches with a Zangief player last night and did better than expected. I used a lot of empty jump ins and threw him when he flexed. Dash Punch empty V skill cancel throws to punish flex and EX Dash Lows to catch forward walks worked real well too. Zangiefs has no reversal so knock him down and apply walk-up pressure.
    PSN: BrokenPSX
    Xbox Live: BrokenXBX
    Steam: Broken230
    Street Fighter V: BrokenPC
    Fightcade: Broken230
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    I agree, although on Gief's end he could just st.fp to negate dash punches or dash punch empty vskill on reaction rather than flex (which Balrog can just sweep/dash low for counterhit) Either way, for every thing Gief does Balrog can counter with a specific action. Vice versa, which is what a 5-5 sounds like.

    IMO the one thing that is truly annoying is just the crouch jab. It's so good!
  • FoilFoil Joined: Posts: 136
    It didn't strike me as a 5-5 at all. This guy wasn't that good, so I was able to frustrate his jab spam and eventually convince him not to flex, but I was still struggling to get anywhere. He's the only character I've had major difficulty dealing with in the neutral, none of the typical characters like Chun or Karin can keep me out easily but Gief seemingly can.
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    But you can do the same, you don't have to be the aggressor it's just as hard for Gief to get in IMO. Not like he has a free in on Rog.

    They can both body each other but I feel it's whoever wins the neutral. Gief has the tools to counter Rog but he takes a risk in doing so (v-skill = white life and st.hp loses to lows) Rog has the safer approach with well spaced dash straights or the occasional ex dash straight/low which are safe on block.

    But personally (and specifically) where are you having problems in the neutral?
  • FoilFoil Joined: Posts: 136
    The worst thing (other than flex of course) was stHP at mid-range. He would mix that in with knees and lows to make it really hard to approach. And just generally he can punish a lot harder with reads than I can unless I spend bar.
  • ShikuruShikuru Sometimes there's an "EX" in my name. Joined: Posts: 31
    Updated Thread to have info on Necalli and Zangief.

    Thanks guys. Any and all info is welcome.
    "There is no knowledge that is not power."
    PSN: Shikuru-chan
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    No opinions on matchups vs the top tier I.e. Ryu, Nash, Chun, Ken, Necalli, and Karin?
  • FoilFoil Joined: Posts: 136
    I think Balrog has a small advantage against Ken, 6-4 might be a bit much, but definitely better than 5-5. Both characters like to get in close and land lights into target combo or bully with CC threat, but Rog has better buttons for this. V-skill P destroys the shoto fireball game in the neutral, and you can whiff punish stHK easily with L/EX Straight or EX Low. Main difficulties are just the fact that Ken has a really good reversal and does boatloads of damage.
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    Ryu is 5-5, Ryu's just need to jump smarter with j.lk, his pressure and damage is scary. Your typical Boxer Ryu match up though.

    Chun could be 5.5-4.5 her favor, her buttons are really good and her pressure is amazing of course. Rog defense has to be on point, cr.fierce beats IALL and you can be fairly late with it even and it'll still snuff or trade in your favor. But she bleeds.

    Karin I feel would be 5-5, like a lesser version of Chun without a reliable meterless AA.

    Necalli I am unsure of atm, from my experience his normals straight out prioritize a lot of Rog's which may pose problems in neutral. Balrog does have the range and dash punch. Rog can also v-skill past seismo I thiiiiiiiink. It's escaping me if I've done that a couple times.

    Idk if I'm being bias because I think Rog is really good but I def haven't come across any match against any character that makes me feel completely helpless.

    The most annoying would be Chun, FANG and Alex for me though.
  • ShikuruShikuru Sometimes there's an "EX" in my name. Joined: Posts: 31
    ZAYMAX wrote: »
    Your typical Boxer Ryu match up though.

    Can you please expand on that?
    "There is no knowledge that is not power."
    PSN: Shikuru-chan
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    edited July 2016
    There's no gimmicks involved. Balrog has naturally always had an edge over Ryu and similar shoto's.

    The MU ends up being all about the neutral, neither can jump because Ryu has DP and Boxer has st.mp and cr.hp.

    Ryu has to inch forward to make dash punch spacing harder for Rog. He has to pre-emptively stick out limbs (like low forward buffer tatsu) to beat dash punches. He has to watch fireballs because of TAP, super, and even more-so in SFV because of V-skill

    When you look at their previous MU's in different games you'll find that it often ends up looking the same despite each character having new tools.

    EDIT: I said st.mk up above but I meant st.mp, changed.
    Post edited by ZAYMAX on
  • Rocky_BalboaRocky_Balboa The Italian Stallion Joined: Posts: 127
    ZAYMAX wrote: »
    There's no gimmicks involved. Balrog has naturally always had an edge over Ryu and similar shoto's.
    Yup.

    Ryu:: I use V-Skill a lot against Ryu and Ken. I noticed that it is very easy to do on reaction and also hits faster than TAP. However usually I have to go for the P-version to be a bit more safe. If spaced correctly, then Ryu usually cannot punish even if he recovers to block it.

    Ken: Not that much insight here, but definitely be careful how you space LP dash punch. Ken can easily punish with his target combo to tatsu. Also Ken's neurtal j.HK is very good against Rog, so keep in mind that they are going to be doing a lot n.jumps. Maybe I timed it wrong, but my Screw Smash got stuffed also.

    What's so crazy about standing toe to toe with someone saying "I am"?
  • EzkimoSamuraiEzkimoSamurai Joined: Posts: 66
    How do you deal with chun-li's pokes?
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    st.mk whiff punishes her main poke (st.hp) into dash low is my go-to so I stay in there for pressure. st.hp is decent but can get stuffed almost for free by her b.hp. cr.mk to beat st.rh but it's pretty hard. The neutral isn't impossible, def winnable and Balrog gets way more off the meterless whiff punish confirms.

    Just to add, Balrog actually has a pretty decent keep away game from Chun, she can't take too much white life cause 900 health and she can't fireball because v-skill p. And dash straight is always annoying when you have to approach Rog. Just careful when she has super or meter.
  • yung_balrogyung_balrog Joined: Posts: 779
    edited July 2016
    lol how do i fight bison. im 0-6 vs him in ranked

    his buttons seem to blow mine up and scissors beats rush punch. maybe i should just stay cool and wait for minus/neutral moves?
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    ^ I have the same issue. But you really can't wait on negative moves since the flames are really the only one. Plus you'll be teching throws all day.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    Also Cammy. What do I do?
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    Post some vids so we can dissect! Or just post replay id's
  • WhizardWhizard CFN: Whizard Joined: Posts: 480
    edited July 2016
    Does anyone have any specific tips for Mika? After getting hit by a blocked drop kick or jump in I'll either get hit by a command grab or get hit by the jumping command grab. Is there any other way to avoid this 50/50 other than to try not to let her hit with me the drop kick in the first place?

    EDIT: I forgot about V reversal haha
  • FrozteyFroztey Cody Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 7,560
    Bison seems best when you turtle waiting for a chance to steal a turn and aiming to jump at him from angles where his cr.hp will lose to j.hk
    CFN - Froztey
    PSN - daFRZT
    BattleNet - Froztey#2545
  • MafamaticksMafamaticks Where'd ya life go? Joined: Posts: 779
    ...try not to let her hit with me the drop kick in the first place?

    This is the best option honestly.

    Good news is you can just s.lp her out of it and the timing isn't that hard.


  • BrokenPSXBrokenPSX Joined: Posts: 47
    edited July 2016
    Froztey wrote: »
    Bison seems best when you turtle waiting for a chance to steal a turn and aiming to jump at him from angles where his cr.hp will lose to j.hk
    Pretty much this. Bison's normal are all positive on block except his sweep I think. Trying to counter poke will just get you frame trapped. Just let him push you out of range than try to catch him on your approach. Also his scissor kicks are all negative on block (except his EX one is +1) so wait for him to throw that out and then lay on your pressure. He is a charge character too so dash throws or Dash Punches with an empty Vskill cancel to throw can work real good. His fastest normal is 4 frames so use your lk target combo in reset situations and you should beat anything he tries unless he just blocks.

    Completely unrelated here, but does anyone know what the deal with all of the people lk spamming in the casual queue? Is it just people just farming fight money before Juri comes out or what? It seems like half my matches are against people that just stand spamming lk.
    Post edited by BrokenPSX on
    PSN: BrokenPSX
    Xbox Live: BrokenXBX
    Steam: Broken230
    Street Fighter V: BrokenPC
    Fightcade: Broken230
  • WhizardWhizard CFN: Whizard Joined: Posts: 480
    ...try not to let her hit with me the drop kick in the first place?

    This is the best option honestly.

    Good news is you can just s.lp her out of it and the timing isn't that hard.


    Good to know I'll have to work on that. That's why I asked, it's quite a scary move to throw a button into.
  • riku45riku45 Joined: Posts: 112
    Anyone got tips for Balrog vs Laura?
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    Get a good life lead in the neutral and wall up. Don't go in unnecessarily, one missed meaty where Laura can sneak in her st.mk into VT can literally end you. Her ex fb is incredibly good as it is too slow to V-skill through especially when Laura is walking forward with it active. Laura has very easy meaties off all her KD's but they usually can be v-reversal'd for a guaranteed hit.

    Basically.

    1) You win the neutral, st.hp, cr.mp are good pokes. St.mk/cr.hk is a really good whiff punish normal. J.mk is also a good jump in against her.

    2) Pressure Laura without meter and vtrigger as she doesn't get much. Usually if you're beating Laura in neutral they resort to throwing a ex fb midscreen. Which is good, because it's not being used as a mix-up tool.

    3) her lp elbow is -2 on block, remember to take your turn after that. Get started with a jab.

    It's still a hard match up because Laura is capable of playing solid without having to go ham. So read the type of player and adjust. Balrog really rules the neutral here though, so make it last as long as possible.
  • FrozteyFroztey Cody Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 7,560
    edited July 2016
    Getting knocked down vs. Laura is horrible. Use backrolls and delayed wake up to fuck with her oki. Don't let her take 40% from one knockdown. With that in mind, make sure to learn what options Laura has after her knockdowns so you can avoid being caught by them, knowing is half the battle ;p
    CFN - Froztey
    PSN - daFRZT
    BattleNet - Froztey#2545
  • Rocky_BalboaRocky_Balboa The Italian Stallion Joined: Posts: 127
    edited August 2016
    Some (obvious) tips against Juri:

    Juri's specials seem pretty unsafe. I think you can punish nearly all of them with lk-mk-hk target combo. Move store kicks, EX Axe Kick and EX release kick are safe. However LK wheel kick is only -3 so s.LK is the only punish for that, but if it is spaced right you will whiff. Probably many Juris will do another move (eg. another wheelkick) right after a blocked LK wheel kick so be careful when trying to punish.

    Her V-Skill isn't great. I think you can basically mash s.LK when she starts charging and it will knock her out of it. Edit: Not sure about this. At least it works after the cross up.

    Punish her s.HK with s.LP or s.LK if it is not spaced right.

    She only has one overhead which doesn't lead into anything. Some specials look like they are overheads, but they are not.

    (I haven't unlocked the character so cannot confirm all of this, but these are based on the few matches I played yesterday.)


    Post edited by Rocky_Balboa on
    What's so crazy about standing toe to toe with someone saying "I am"?
  • pikminmaniacpikminmaniac Joined: Posts: 29
    So how might one fight a chun that constantly neutral jumps at a safe distance. If you try to air-to-air, she reacts and wins. If you approach you get attacked from above. Dash punch of course loses to her splits, and she very much wins the ground game if you get to her neutral jump range. Right now this match up feels really really bad for balrog.

    Any tips?
  • EzkimoSamuraiEzkimoSamurai Joined: Posts: 66
    Bill wrote: »
    Also Cammy. What do I do?

    I've had the same problem. Her spin knuckle cross up and spin knuckle into cr.mp frame trap get me a lot. Went to the lab for a bit, and just realized I could jab her out mid spin. Even better cr.hp for a cc into ex dash punch, etc. I'm still a noob rog so I'm still bad at that matchup. I didn't read this info anywhere so if it was already posted my bad lol.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    How do you stop online shotos from crossup jumping nonstop? 2HP and 5MP whiff or trade with their jumping attacks. It's very annoying and they get + frames on block for a free mixup. Basically a win win for them.
  • Rocky_BalboaRocky_Balboa The Italian Stallion Joined: Posts: 127
    edited August 2016
    Bill wrote: »
    How do you stop online shotos from crossup jumping nonstop? 2HP and 5MP whiff or trade with their jumping attacks. It's very annoying and they get + frames on block for a free mixup. Basically a win win for them.
    If you can't use normal anti-airs, then you have to either dash under or go for air-to-air attacks. j.LP, j.LK and j.MK all have some decent active frames, so jump with those and knock them out of air.
    So how might one fight a chun that constantly neutral jumps at a safe distance. If you try to air-to-air, she reacts and wins. If you approach you get attacked from above. Dash punch of course loses to her splits, and she very much wins the ground game if you get to her neutral jump range. Right now this match up feels really really bad for balrog.

    Any tips?
    You could always use Smash (d,u+K). Granted it can be stuffed, but if you get the timing right, it is a good punish. And if you are close, then EX-version has armor so it is no problem.
    What's so crazy about standing toe to toe with someone saying "I am"?
  • pikminmaniacpikminmaniac Joined: Posts: 29
    Thank you for the tip Mr. Balboa.

    Now here's another match-up I have a lot of trouble with using any character.

    Guile: The trickiest thing here with Balrog, is that the V-skill and TAP are completely shut down by Guile's crush counter so the approach is excessively hard and if you manage to half kill yourself getting in, he can just V-reversal you back out and has an invincible reversal to deter you from using your full pressure on his knockdown.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    I'm absolutely helpless against shotos. Everything is safe except dps, but if you knock them down it's basically a 50/50 mixup on YOU between throw or DP.

    CFN is legaleagle7187
  • ZAYMAXZAYMAX Joined: Posts: 115
    You only need to bait one to kill them or discourage them from dp'ing. You have normals that reach further than anything they can do. St.hp, st.hk is a great to fish for CC. This is a player problem so try heading into the lab and recreating the scenario, then just practice your options. Like backdash, block+jump back+tech OS, interrupt a fake string. Etc
  • TheDarkPhoenixTheDarkPhoenix BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 12,372 mod
    I feel like once kens realize that they can approach Rog from the air for free with tatsu that match up is going to be horrible.
    "this game is about winning, If you had the option of a 1) Big dick or 2) a small dick, would you choose 2 because it took more skill? Thought not"
    -Bokkin
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,242
    Oh wow I thought I was the only one with that. Air tatsu is straight brain-dead.
  • EzkimoSamuraiEzkimoSamurai Joined: Posts: 66
    Anyone have input on the alex mu?
  • Rocky_BalboaRocky_Balboa The Italian Stallion Joined: Posts: 127
    Anyone have input on the alex mu?

    I think this is pretty straight forward match-up.

    *Don't get caught in frametraps and try not to get knocked down
    *Punish Flash Chops if they are poorly spaced. For example s.LP xx LP.DashPunch or if he is really close LK-MK-HK target combo
    *Punish s.HK with s.LP
    *Careful with dash punches when Alex has his V-Trigger on

    What's so crazy about standing toe to toe with someone saying "I am"?
  • EzkimoSamuraiEzkimoSamurai Joined: Posts: 66
    Anyone have input on the alex mu?

    I think this is pretty straight forward match-up.

    *Don't get caught in frametraps and try not to get knocked down
    *Punish Flash Chops if they are poorly spaced. For example s.LP xx LP.DashPunch or if he is really close LK-MK-HK target combo
    *Punish s.HK with s.LP
    *Careful with dash punches when Alex has his V-Trigger on

    Thanks for the tips. I kinda figured out a gameplan after running a few sets last night. Just play a little more patient, and when the moment arises bully him.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.