SFV Matchup Chart. S2 Boxer vs Guile; Urien vs Gief; Ibuki vs Sim; Ryu vs Vega; Juri vs FANG

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  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,070
    edited February 16
    The whole one-sided situation of being cornered could be said with almost everyone, although this is where Ken becomes most scary. Most people, even Laura, can find a sweet spot range to get out, and regardless of taking damage, it is going to be worth it.

    Could bring up that, unlike Ken, some of Laura's enders give a proper meaty setup anywhere on specials alone without needing the corner. Ken's oki factor mainly plays a strong role when cornerering the opponent (primarily most consistent after a throw... or after certain attack enders against 4-frame minimum options, which Laura isn't categorized in). In season 1 she had to deal with a lot worse, but most of what made it inconsistent is that the DP was there to throw out any loose followups or oki. She technically can now play around as she is intended to now unless Ken has meter.

    Hope you don't mind me using the Ryu MU reference, but I would say the same applies with Ryu but in a bad way since corner oki isn't consistent and his pokes are lacking, but has a 3f normal and somewhat workable strings... seeing that as 4-6 is feasible against Laura... but seeing a huge jump when it comes to Ken at a +1.5 difference because of those changes is odd to me. I can see +1.0 change at best because Ken's traits are more scary in SFV. The gameplan at neutral is relatively similar imo (Mediums against Laura are generally really strong), there are just a few differences from both that just overall puts Ken ahead because the meta of offense is preferred. From playing with Ryu against a Laura trainer in the past, I would say it's somewhat noticeable to see the match-up lean towards Ryu than Laura. For Season 2 Ryu VS Laura I would think that MU changed, but not too much (might be 5.5 in Laura's favor against Ryu).
    Post edited by AceKombat on
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,764
    I'm not sure about the 6-4 against Ryu either, and the fact that most people just dropped Ryu means we probably won't get to know how good he really is in some MUs. The most reasonable statement imho would be 5.5 for Laura against Ryu and 5.5 for Ken against Laura.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,629
    This is how I view FANG's MUs:
    Akuma:5.5
    Alex: 6
    Balrog 4
    Birdie 6 Birdie in VT 5
    Cammy 3
    Chun Li 4
    Dhalsim 5.5
    F.A.N.G 5
    Guile 5
    Ibuki 4
    Juri 4.5
    Karin 4.5
    Ken 3.5
    Laura 3.5
    M. Bison 5
    Nash 5
    Necalli 4
    R. Mika 4
    Rashid 4
    Ryu 5
    Urien 3.5
    Vega 5
    Zangief 5.5

    I think S1 his worst MUs were Cammy, Ken, and Chun. Going in to S2 I don't think they really fixed the issues he had in those MUs, but Ken and Chun did get weaker overall. I think going forward his MUs are based around:
    How Long can he keep pressure going safely?
    What are the opponent's damage output compared to his? VT comback factor is important here as well imo.
    Do they have an easy way around him trying to switch to a zoning gameplan?
    Right now I'm gravitating to Cammy,Ken, Laura, Urien being his worst MUs this go around. The 3 MUs I'm not too sure on from experience are Rashid or Ibuki, but given their toolset I think they would be unfavorable for him.
    CFN-Unlimited_RiBu
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  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    edited February 17
    Here's where I think Ken's match ups are in S2.

    Advantaged: Fang, Nash
    Even: Necali, Zangief, Alex, Urien, Juri, Akuma, Ryu, Ibuki, Dhalsim, Laura, Mika, Bison, Vega
    Disadvantaged: Guile, Birdie, Chun Li, Karin, Cammy
    Horrible: Rashid, Balrog

    I think the biggest problem is that Ken plays a little too honest now until he gets a hit. Before you always had to worry about Ken jumping, but his jump in game isn't strong enough now to really scare people consistently yet at the same time they nerfed his ground game. The few buffs he did get really didn't give him access to any new "play styles" in the sense that his new overhead buff helps him in a situation he already dominated in which is corner pressure. The one frame nerf across the board hurt Ken badly since his ability to punish things in the neutral game is greatly diminished. There's a lot of situations where c.MP > Tatsu or b.MP were the optimal punishes, but now you have to settle for much weaker punishes. This in turn gives Ken less pressure situations overall.

    The loss of a lot of threats in the neutral game make Ken a lot more one dimensional in his approach. He's still viable and you can put in the time to make him good, but I think compared to many of the "great" characters in S2 he just leaves a lot to be desired. They just took way too much away from him.

    Don't get me wrong, Ken is still deadly in the corner. If he gets his optimal situation he's downright terrifying, but simply it's a lot harder for him to get started. He's a viable mid tier character, but I think a lot of the fun of playing him is kinda gone.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    AceKombat wrote: »
    I don't see how Laura has a slight struggle against Ken @OceanMachine . I feel that it's 5-5 , no more or less. Sure in S1 it felt terrible for Laura imo, but this time around she gained some consistency changes in strings that now feel decent to follow along... and back then in S1, doing meaty stuff as Laura against Ken was risky because meterless DP people could scout her setups and make her approach too tame... now, universally, they can't do it unless meter is involved (and Kens usually save some for his scary V-Trigger potential).

    I feel Ken still has great advantage in neutral and can still send her with ease in the corner where the match just becomes one sided. Her strings didn't really change either, she only gained more mix-ups up close, but Ken imho can play very easily outside her mix-up range due to his movement.

    Eh the biggest problem is that Ken's defense against Laura is much worse. The nerf to MP DP and LK Tatsu in addition to Laura's buffs have absolutely wrecked Ken's options. There's a lot less for Laura to worry about.

    Before Ken had probably one of the best defenses in the game which helped him a lot against Mika or Laura, but now his defense is not much better than many characters.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • ad_hocad_hoc Joined: Posts: 74
    There's a typo. You've got Chun-Laura as a 4-4 matchup.

    Reasoning why Chun-Birdie is 5-5? She destroys him in v-trigger with her multihitting moves.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    edited February 17
    ad_hoc wrote: »
    There's a typo. You've got Chun-Laura as a 4-4 matchup.

    Reasoning why Chun-Birdie is 5-5? She destroys him in v-trigger with her multihitting moves.

    I feel with the nerfs to IALL (the biggest issue he had), her shorter length v trigger, her nerfed punishes and his now safe on block EX bullhead (especially v trigger ex which is retarded now) he can play a more even matchup vs her. She can win the button war vs him, but once he gets the ranged game established with the v skills and sits on some meter her approach is a bit less strong than it was in Season 1.


    In these couple recent videos of Nuki vs some high ranked Birdies (including Crusher) Nuki tends to struggle in the neutral a lot more than in Season 1 and once they get the trash on the ground it forces him to respect Birdie's ground game a lot. Before you could just bypass all this stuff with IALL and EX bullhead was unsafe on block, but now with the changes it definitely seems more of an evened out match



    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • SmokeMaxXSmokeMaxX T.O. of A.R.K. Joined: Posts: 7,974
    Imo chun is still bad for birdie. Better but not even. S1 was like 7 3, s2 is like 6 4.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    edited February 17
    I personally haven't seen anything that makes it worth pushing the matchup past even. Like maybe slight advantage for Chun now at best. Maybe in another month or 2 I might have a different opinion on it, but Birdie already get more potential damage out of the neutral than Chun does and has more options to close the gap on her than Gief does.

    I feel Gief is still likely advantageous for her since there's like 2 or 3 buttons that she can hit and there really isn't much he can do to stop it until he gets V Trigger. She doesn't need to use fireball much in that matchup (or in general) so the headbutt meter buff is negligible. Lot more options for Birdie in comparison.

    I currently have that match listed as even in the mock up chart, but whenever we do gather info for a more concrete chart that match would most likely go in her favor either as 6 or 5.5

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • tntdsctntdsc Joined: Posts: 21
    Birdie's MUs
    Akuma 5.5
    Alex 5.5
    Balrog 4.5
    Birdie -
    Cammy 4.5
    Chun Li 4.5
    Dhalsim 4
    F.A.N.G 5
    Guile 4
    Ibuki 5
    Juri 5
    Karin 5
    Ken 5
    Laura 4.5
    M. Bison 5
    Nash 5
    Necalli 4.5
    R. Mika 5
    Rashid 5
    Ryu 5.5
    Urien 4
    Vega 5
    Zangief 6
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,069
    I don't see how Sim beats Birdie 6-4 with EX bullhead being -2 now. Birdie can fuck up Dhalsim as much as anyone else once he gets in, and keeping him out is very hard when he has a fast, far-reaching 3f armored gap closer that's safe on block. that he can mix up with EX derp dive once he scares you into not pressing buttons. sim also has a particular weakness to command grabs

    that's not to say that sim doesn't still have a big advantage in neutral - just that a good birdie will get enough opportunities to even things out.

    fchamp has it 5-5 and I'm inclined to agree
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,911
    One way we could be more objective about our findings here is to have most of the characters oki listed. At the very least, on knockdowns.

    Thoughts?
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,764
    edited February 19
    Why would that be important? Gief has probably the best oki in the entire game off his command grabs yet nobody but a few Jap players call him top tier. Cammy on the other hand has very poor/limited oki yet everyone agrees she's very good.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,735
    Probably because it's at least a start at trying something scientific rather than just random rumblings.

    An even better idea would be to make a list of "strong tools in sf5" then rank every character on how they rate amongst those tools... then add up the rankings and get your total for your theory top tier.

    And if the theory top tier turns out to not be as good as the "known" top tier that means you may have missed some tools, or your list is an indicator of the future.


    But LOL like anyone would ever try and do that. People wouldn't even be able to agree on what's a good tool or not.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,911
    edited February 19
    Why would that be important? Gief has probably the best oki in the entire game off his command grabs yet nobody but a few Jap players call him top tier. Cammy on the other hand has very poor/limited oki yet everyone agrees she's very good.

    so we can make evidence based claims instead of unsupported ones.

    oki is one aspect of what makes a character good. Just because I'm saying we should list this doesn't mean we should ignore everything else.

    if we have everything listed, and updated to be accurate then we can point to things in a more objective way.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,764
    edited February 19
    I'm not against it, but then we should make similar lists about damage outputs, walk speeds, pokes range, anti-airs etc.
    Also since this is a MU thread and not just a tier list thread what really counts is how each character's tools play against the tools of his/her opponent. Like a character might have the best projectile in the game, but if everyone else has good anti-projectile tools it doesn't count that much.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,911
    edited February 19
    Thats what I mean, we can point to things that are objectively true about each character when making claims about matchups.

    We can list everything, but I think "Oki" is the low hanging fruit. Should be easy to gather this.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,764
    I think oki itself is rather complex because you need to evaluate how many moves give you a knockdown, which type of knockdown it is (backrollable/not-backrollable), how many tools the character has to cover both quickrise and backroll and if he/she has tools to easily cover both.
    On an additional layer we might also consider how easy it is to score those K/Ds with said moves.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,980
    Heres mine for Ken, I am no pro tho but I guess it's more opinions.
    Left is Ken.

    Ken VS:

    Akuma = 5.5 - 4.5
    Alex = 5.5 - 4.5
    Balrog (Boxer) = 4 - 6
    Birdie = 5 - 5
    Cammy = 4.5 - 5.5
    Chun Li = 5 - 5
    Dhalsim = 5.5 - 4.5
    F.A.N.G = 6 - 4
    Guile = 4.5 - 5.5
    Ibuki = 5 - 5
    Juri = 5 - 5
    Karin = 5 - 5
    Laura = 5 - 5
    M.Bison (Dictator) = 5 - 5
    Nash = 6 - 4
    Necalli = 5 - 5
    R. Mika = 5 - 5
    Rashid = 4 - 6
    Ryu = 5.5 - 4.5
    Urien = 4.5 - 5.5
    Vega (Claw) = 6-4
    Zangief = 5 - 5


    Long story short garbage matchups are Rog and Rashid. I almost put a 7-3 on Rashid because I saw Momochi vs Gachikun and that was crazy how bad it looked.
    I think Rashid is the worst matchup for Ken.
    [SFV] Ken
    [USFIV] Ken
    [GG-XRD] Sol
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,367
    Ryu matches

    Advantage vs- Vega

    Even vs- Akuma, Chun, Karin, Ken, Fang, Alex

    Disadvantage vs- Birdie, Cammy, Sim, Ibuki, Juri, Laura, Bison, Nash, Necalli, Mika, Urien, Gief

    Get fucked vs-Rog, Guile, Rashid
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    edited February 19
    Quark wrote: »
    I don't see how Sim beats Birdie 6-4 with EX bullhead being -2 now. Birdie can fuck up Dhalsim as much as anyone else once he gets in, and keeping him out is very hard when he has a fast, far-reaching 3f armored gap closer that's safe on block. that he can mix up with EX derp dive once he scares you into not pressing buttons. sim also has a particular weakness to command grabs

    that's not to say that sim doesn't still have a big advantage in neutral - just that a good birdie will get enough opportunities to even things out.

    fchamp has it 5-5 and I'm inclined to agree

    I just had it down in my mock up chart because I remember 6 4 was what people were saying during Season 1. Sounds like it's a different match now.
    One way we could be more objective about our findings here is to have most of the characters oki listed. At the very least, on knockdowns.

    Thoughts?

    Whether it really pertains a ton to matchups is questionable, but I guess it's nice to just have more numbers and formulas to talk about which some people like I guess.

    I could post Dafeetlee's Season 2 oki for Ibuki if I find it. Ibuki's oki is so derp easy compared to the other cast it's pretty funny. Sometimes people combo into HK kazekiri which then actually forces you to play the neutral/backrise game with people, but other than that everything is neutral tech only or you're in an air reset so get fucked.


    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,069
    the oki chart thing might be good to set up another thread for but I don't think it belongs in this one
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    Valoon wrote: »
    Long story short garbage matchups are Rog and Rashid. I almost put a 7-3 on Rashid because I saw Momochi vs Gachikun and that was crazy how bad it looked.
    I think Rashid is the worst matchup for Ken.

    I've been watching each and every good Ken player I know get destroyed by Rashid. The match up was a little tough to play in S1, but completely manageable. S2 Ken just can't open up Rashid as often as Rashid opens him up and worse yet Rashid gets out of the corner too damn easily.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,735
    edited February 20
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    Valoon wrote: »
    Long story short garbage matchups are Rog and Rashid. I almost put a 7-3 on Rashid because I saw Momochi vs Gachikun and that was crazy how bad it looked.
    I think Rashid is the worst matchup for Ken.

    I've been watching each and every good Ken player I know get destroyed by Rashid. The match up was a little tough to play in S1, but completely manageable. S2 Ken just can't open up Rashid as often as Rashid opens him up and worse yet Rashid gets out of the corner too damn easily.

    What changed about kens tools or rashids tools that has made rashid unopenable?

    Kens blockbeaters have stayed the same so it seems like you are more than likely referring to neutral? What about the neutral has changed from S1 to S2?


    I ask for pure academics as I don't play either character, but have dabbled in both.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,367
    Probably ex tatsu. That was like a catch all answer if you got out buttoned by a character.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    @LoyalSol what is he doing specifically with the tornado to get it to stuff the ex?

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    edited February 21
    LoyalSol what is he doing specifically with the tornado to get it to stuff the ex?

    It's primarily a spacing trick. Basically you are trying to make it so the tornado is still on top of Ken by the time EX DP runs out of invincibility frames.

    But what makes it annoying is that the spacing to get the the Tornado to trade is actually a pretty good range for Rashid.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    Ah ok thats what I figured. Frames running out

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,735
    I think If people want to talk matchup balance a good way to do that is to talk about risk versus reward, tool versus tool and to a lesser extent, ease of gameplay..

    Like I don't know how necalli fares versus ryu but it seems like an advantaged matchup for necalli because of the tool versus tool interaction between necallis v skill and ryus fireball.

    But that might only be against a ryu that just wants to throw fireballs. If the ryu wants to go in and get his hands dirty the matchup seems to start to really even out... till necalli gets v trigger.

    So that's how I'd score the matchup:

    Slight favor necalli against an aggressive ryu. Big favor necalli against a defensive ryu. But since aggressive seems to be the way to go for ryu I would just list it as slight advantage necalli.


    ^^

    A breakdown like that would be nice for matchups. Whether it is correct or incorrect is immaterial, seeing what players think about matchups as far as what strategies are hard to deal with and what moves gives them a hard time... or their opponent a hard time, is the primary reason for a thread like this.

    Who cares about numbers if we don't know why the numbers are reached?

    Like @LoyalSol ken breakdown against rashid is on point whether it holds up to scrutiny in a year or more time, or not.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,069
    edited February 23
    Dime_x wrote: »
    A breakdown like that would be nice for matchups. Whether it is correct or incorrect is immaterial, seeing what players think about matchups as far as what strategies are hard to deal with and what moves gives them a hard time... or their opponent a hard time, is the primary reason for a thread like this.

    Who cares about numbers if we don't know why the numbers are reached?

    agreed. matchup charts without any explanation aren't particularly informative, nor are they likely to be accurate this early into the season. I'd much rather see discussion of specific matchups.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • GenistarGenistar Master Drayden Joined: Posts: 5,041
    Would it be beneficial to do daily match up discussions between a few characters. Like Monday bison vs chun and Mika vs cammy would be discussed? Even weekly could do. Then we fill up the chart using the resources we have obtained.
    USF4:Mains Rose/Poison/Akuma
    Street fighter V Akuma/Kolin/ Hopefully Menat
    GGrev2 Millia
    DBFZ Frieza....



  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,764
    Genistar wrote: »
    Would it be beneficial to do daily match up discussions between a few characters. Like Monday bison vs chun and Mika vs cammy would be discussed? Even weekly could do. Then we fill up the chart using the resources we have obtained.

    This is actually a good idea! We might make a few more than that though, otherwise we won't have anything done before S2 is over.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [Xrd] Leo [BBCF] Bullet
    [UNIEL] Orie [T7] Claudio
    [MvCI] Cap Marvel/Thanos (Time)
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    We'll essentially never be able to finish discussion as new dlc characters will be added and patch changes always change things ( even if patch changes are very infrequent and don't involve new meters or mechanics)


    I guess daily wouldnt be bad. I could fill out my chart as matchups are discussed until we get more concrete numbers and descriptions for all the matchups.


    Any character matchups you guys wanna get started with?

    I would be most helpful with matchups for Chun, Ibuki and somewhat on Juri and Cammy. Though I feel we all see enough matchups and can pull footage to analyze new things. Best thing this does is get us to understand more about characters we don't play and see their tools more specifically

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    Probably ex tatsu. That was like a catch all answer if you got out buttoned by a character.

    The funny thing was that regular tatsu was so much better than EX ever was.

    The thing both me and Chris T kept telling everyone was that the glaring flaw with the EX Tatsu was that it was pretty easy to crouch under and punish. Once people knew that trick, the strength of the move was much much weaker. Birdie was probably one of the few characters that had to consistently worry about EX Tatsu.

    The regular one on the other hand you could make someone guess if you were doing a regular jump in or not and it was harder to get under.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • GenistarGenistar Master Drayden Joined: Posts: 5,041
    Maybe we should go through the most problematic match ups that people have at the moment. Would it help if we got balrog, laura, and urien out of the way? I think some people need to know what to do in some match ups so they are a bit more understandable.
    USF4:Mains Rose/Poison/Akuma
    Street fighter V Akuma/Kolin/ Hopefully Menat
    GGrev2 Millia
    DBFZ Frieza....



  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,735
    Random gunfight post in the Alex forum. Dude only has like 3 posts in 6 years so probably won't be hearing much from him, I assume he's the actual gunfight, anyways his thoughts on some Alex matchups:

    gunfight wrote: »
    Omnikaze wrote: »
    Okay serious question. What's the matchup Alex has an advantage?
    cogumerlim wrote: »
    Omnikaze wrote: »
    Okay serious question. What's the matchup Alex has an advantage?

    In my understanding, we have an advantage against Karin, Nash and Guile. Necalli, Dhalsim, Zangief and Akuma come right below those when you understand the matchups (so it's not by the character, it's you learning what to do as Alex against them, and once you do, they become a lot easier - at least that's what happened in my case), as Alex has some very specific tools that disrupt their gameplans. Most of the others are kinda balanced, but Chun Li, M. Bison (dictator), Balrog (boxer) and Fang border the impossible to beat as Alex.


    I need to answer on this one, I really disagree with you on this one Cogumerlim, I think you overrate Alex on lots of matchup, just the fact that Alex can deal with fireball doesn't make nash and guile good matchups.
    guile is easier than nash for Alex because his fireball is a charge move, so it makes it easier for Alex to read. and he has to walk back or crouch to have acces to thoses moves. making possible for us to push him in the corner and gain space control. This is almost impossible against nash because of motion command for fireball, better dashes, better normal anti air, ect.

    Karin was already hard in s1, now it's harder. karin wins the ground game basically, the fact that she has no health makes her dies quicker if she does mistakes. but you can't use that in match up balance. same apply for akuma, but he is even better than karin in lots of aspects + he has a fireball.

    zangief was a good matchup in season 1, it was almost impossible for him to get in on Alex but 1 knockdown made you loose the game. now it's a hard matchup, Alex's tools got worse (especially the controls + anti air) and gief got buffs in those aspect, so it's easier for him to get in and it's harder for Alex to control him. it has become so hard to avoid the bad situations for Alex.

    dhalsim is hard because it's harder to get in compare to other char, the fact that you can grab the TP doesnt make that a good matchup, and he forces you to get in, he will deal damage from long range, he has better space control than Alex. Alex has to guess to get in and take lots of risk.

    There is more stuff to those matchup that makes them bad for Alex, but need to get more specifics and it will take time + I am at work Kappa.

    to sum up, Alex has no good matchup, he has some even matchup but that's all. At certains level you may feel differently but it's only because the guy you face has no clue on how to deal with Alex.

    Fang match up : it was the easiest matchup for Alex in s1. now it's even, still one of the easiest for Alex though.

    I will try to explain how i feel on the matchups in detais later when I'll be home.

    My speed matchup chart :

    Even : Jury, Fang, Ryu
    Hard : the rest
    Hardest : Claw, Cammy, Dictator, Boxer, Rashid,

    Why i think alex is bad and make all match up hard :
    -Alex best aspect is his zoning/ground game which has become weaker in s2
    -offense is bad because his throw game is weak and not scary, his best pressure buttons are all v reversable + still weak against 3F buttons, -defense his terrible, no reliable anti air at mid range + slow medium buttons, slow V reversal.
    -you have to take tons of risk to get little damage, the risk reward for all his moves is pretty bad. going for a throw ends up your pressure, even EX one and even in the corner.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 781
    I thought gunfight was Japanese? If that's actually him that's gold.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,834 mod
    The post is typed in enough engrish/broken wording that he probably is Japanese/foriegn

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,931
    Gunfight is a white dude living in Japan.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "I'll be honest, I don't know why you hang out in Nintendo threads. You seem to hate everything they do." - Po Pimpus
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