SFV Matchup Chart. S2 Boxer vs Guile; Urien vs Gief; Ibuki vs Sim; Ryu vs Vega; Juri vs FANG

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  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,011
    edited February 23
    Dime_x wrote: »
    A breakdown like that would be nice for matchups. Whether it is correct or incorrect is immaterial, seeing what players think about matchups as far as what strategies are hard to deal with and what moves gives them a hard time... or their opponent a hard time, is the primary reason for a thread like this.

    Who cares about numbers if we don't know why the numbers are reached?

    agreed. matchup charts without any explanation aren't particularly informative, nor are they likely to be accurate this early into the season. I'd much rather see discussion of specific matchups.
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • GenistarGenistar Master Drayden Joined: Posts: 4,922
    Would it be beneficial to do daily match up discussions between a few characters. Like Monday bison vs chun and Mika vs cammy would be discussed? Even weekly could do. Then we fill up the chart using the resources we have obtained.
    USF4:Mains Rose/Poison/Akuma
    Street fighter V Akuma/Kolin/ Hopefully Menat
    GGrev2 Millia
    DBFZ Frieza....



  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    Genistar wrote: »
    Would it be beneficial to do daily match up discussions between a few characters. Like Monday bison vs chun and Mika vs cammy would be discussed? Even weekly could do. Then we fill up the chart using the resources we have obtained.

    This is actually a good idea! We might make a few more than that though, otherwise we won't have anything done before S2 is over.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    We'll essentially never be able to finish discussion as new dlc characters will be added and patch changes always change things ( even if patch changes are very infrequent and don't involve new meters or mechanics)


    I guess daily wouldnt be bad. I could fill out my chart as matchups are discussed until we get more concrete numbers and descriptions for all the matchups.


    Any character matchups you guys wanna get started with?

    I would be most helpful with matchups for Chun, Ibuki and somewhat on Juri and Cammy. Though I feel we all see enough matchups and can pull footage to analyze new things. Best thing this does is get us to understand more about characters we don't play and see their tools more specifically

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    HNIC Mike wrote: »
    Probably ex tatsu. That was like a catch all answer if you got out buttoned by a character.

    The funny thing was that regular tatsu was so much better than EX ever was.

    The thing both me and Chris T kept telling everyone was that the glaring flaw with the EX Tatsu was that it was pretty easy to crouch under and punish. Once people knew that trick, the strength of the move was much much weaker. Birdie was probably one of the few characters that had to consistently worry about EX Tatsu.

    The regular one on the other hand you could make someone guess if you were doing a regular jump in or not and it was harder to get under.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • GenistarGenistar Master Drayden Joined: Posts: 4,922
    Maybe we should go through the most problematic match ups that people have at the moment. Would it help if we got balrog, laura, and urien out of the way? I think some people need to know what to do in some match ups so they are a bit more understandable.
    USF4:Mains Rose/Poison/Akuma
    Street fighter V Akuma/Kolin/ Hopefully Menat
    GGrev2 Millia
    DBFZ Frieza....



  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,191
    Random gunfight post in the Alex forum. Dude only has like 3 posts in 6 years so probably won't be hearing much from him, I assume he's the actual gunfight, anyways his thoughts on some Alex matchups:

    gunfight wrote: »
    Omnikaze wrote: »
    Okay serious question. What's the matchup Alex has an advantage?
    cogumerlim wrote: »
    Omnikaze wrote: »
    Okay serious question. What's the matchup Alex has an advantage?

    In my understanding, we have an advantage against Karin, Nash and Guile. Necalli, Dhalsim, Zangief and Akuma come right below those when you understand the matchups (so it's not by the character, it's you learning what to do as Alex against them, and once you do, they become a lot easier - at least that's what happened in my case), as Alex has some very specific tools that disrupt their gameplans. Most of the others are kinda balanced, but Chun Li, M. Bison (dictator), Balrog (boxer) and Fang border the impossible to beat as Alex.


    I need to answer on this one, I really disagree with you on this one Cogumerlim, I think you overrate Alex on lots of matchup, just the fact that Alex can deal with fireball doesn't make nash and guile good matchups.
    guile is easier than nash for Alex because his fireball is a charge move, so it makes it easier for Alex to read. and he has to walk back or crouch to have acces to thoses moves. making possible for us to push him in the corner and gain space control. This is almost impossible against nash because of motion command for fireball, better dashes, better normal anti air, ect.

    Karin was already hard in s1, now it's harder. karin wins the ground game basically, the fact that she has no health makes her dies quicker if she does mistakes. but you can't use that in match up balance. same apply for akuma, but he is even better than karin in lots of aspects + he has a fireball.

    zangief was a good matchup in season 1, it was almost impossible for him to get in on Alex but 1 knockdown made you loose the game. now it's a hard matchup, Alex's tools got worse (especially the controls + anti air) and gief got buffs in those aspect, so it's easier for him to get in and it's harder for Alex to control him. it has become so hard to avoid the bad situations for Alex.

    dhalsim is hard because it's harder to get in compare to other char, the fact that you can grab the TP doesnt make that a good matchup, and he forces you to get in, he will deal damage from long range, he has better space control than Alex. Alex has to guess to get in and take lots of risk.

    There is more stuff to those matchup that makes them bad for Alex, but need to get more specifics and it will take time + I am at work Kappa.

    to sum up, Alex has no good matchup, he has some even matchup but that's all. At certains level you may feel differently but it's only because the guy you face has no clue on how to deal with Alex.

    Fang match up : it was the easiest matchup for Alex in s1. now it's even, still one of the easiest for Alex though.

    I will try to explain how i feel on the matchups in detais later when I'll be home.

    My speed matchup chart :

    Even : Jury, Fang, Ryu
    Hard : the rest
    Hardest : Claw, Cammy, Dictator, Boxer, Rashid,

    Why i think alex is bad and make all match up hard :
    -Alex best aspect is his zoning/ground game which has become weaker in s2
    -offense is bad because his throw game is weak and not scary, his best pressure buttons are all v reversable + still weak against 3F buttons, -defense his terrible, no reliable anti air at mid range + slow medium buttons, slow V reversal.
    -you have to take tons of risk to get little damage, the risk reward for all his moves is pretty bad. going for a throw ends up your pressure, even EX one and even in the corner.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 748
    I thought gunfight was Japanese? If that's actually him that's gold.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    The post is typed in enough engrish/broken wording that he probably is Japanese/foriegn

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,860
    Gunfight is a white dude living in Japan.
    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
    "Say it loud... I main Rog and I'm proud!!!!" - Plaid Unicorn
    "I'll be honest, I don't know why you hang out in Nintendo threads. You seem to hate everything they do." - Po Pimpus
  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,943
    Gunfight is french and lives in Japan
    [SFV] Ken
    [USFIV] Ken
    [GG-XRD] Sol
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,191
    So English is at best his 3rd language. Since he's from eu he probably speaks or can understand up to 5 different languages since eu has a different language for damn near every country.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    The idea that most people from EU speak more than one language is... curious.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • MaryokutaiMaryokutai Joined: Posts: 942
    edited February 24
    The idea that most people from EU speak more than one language is... curious.

    Yeah, that's rather the exception than the rule. Some basic English as a second language is usually the best you can hope for in most European countries and sometimes even that is asking too much.

    Eeeh, sorry for off-topic, just realized this isn't the lounge.
  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 3,707
    I've watched Gunfight stream a bit. He is at least tri-lingual, and his English is fluent.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,259
    Genistar wrote: »
    Maybe we should go through the most problematic match ups that people have at the moment. Would it help if we got balrog, laura, and urien out of the way? I think some people need to know what to do in some match ups so they are a bit more understandable.

    And Necalli. I'm not sure why he flies under the radar but he's a beast. His vskill and charge move are rough for me if anyone has any tips.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    edited February 24
    Charge move is -6 or so on block. Free punish.
    There's nothing you can do against the v-skill on the ground but if you read it it's a free jump-in.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,867
    some characters can actually react to it.

    cammy can super it or do a s.a or hooligan (ex)

    the best way to not get blown up by necallis vskill is to not be too obvious with your buttons at mid screen. i use it to make people chill on the buttons so i can dash in.
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    edited February 24
    The idea that most people from EU speak more than one language is... curious.

    Many people from Europe speak their native language and often English because for a lot of technical fields it's sort of become the common language for science and other fields.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    The idea that most people from EU speak more than one language is... curious.

    Many people from Europe speak their native language and often English because for a lot of technical fields it's sort of become the common language for science and other fields.

    Not all people in Europe go at the uni or work in fields that require an extended knowledge of English.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,867
    lounge 2.0 status confirmed
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    Yeah definitely going to make sure this doesn't get too heavy into lounge territory so I'll have some matchups by tomorrow to start discussing.

    The goal being to have an analysis and matchup number and slowly refine the matchup chart until we get numbers that look good to show off. Of course with regular changes as characters and patches come through

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LockMLockM Joined: Posts: 2,444
    French are notorious in western EU for being among the worst english speakers :^)
    GGXrdR2: Baiken
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    USFIV: Yun Cody Guy




  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    edited February 25
    Since someone started with the idea of comparing the characters based on specific criteria, I decided to make a list about projectiles. Here's all projectiles in the game ranked from the fastest to the slowest (startup+recovery):
    Ibuki air Kunai: 20 (+ landing)
    Akuma air Hadouken: 20 (+ landing)

    Ibuki Kunai: 33

    Guile EX Boom: 36
    Guile VT Boom: 36

    Ibuki Kunai release: 37
    Juri L Fuharenkyaku: 37 (* recovery cancellable)
    Nash EX Boom: 37

    Guile Boom: 38
    Chun EX Kikoken: 38

    Ibuki EX Kunai: 40
    M. Bison EX Blast: 40

    Guile VS Boom: 41
    Laura EX Clap: 41

    Chun H Kikoken: 44
    Ryu EX Hadouken: 44
    Urien EX Sphere (ground): 44

    Chun M Kikoken: 45
    Ken EX Hadouken: 45
    Nash H Boom: 45
    Urien EX Sphere (AA): 45

    Akuma EX Gohadouken: 46
    Chun L Kikoken: 46
    Dhalsim EX Yoga: 46

    Laura Clap lv1: 47
    Nash L/M Boom: 47
    Ryu Hadouken: 47

    Akuma Gohadouken: 48
    Ken Hadouken: 48

    Guile VS: 49
    Urien H Sphere: 49

    FANG EX Nishikyu: 50
    Urien L/M Sphere: 50

    Rashid L Whirlwind: 52
    Dhalsim Yoga Fire: 53
    Akuma L red fireball: 55
    Urien charged EX sphere (AA): 59
    Rashid M Whirlwind: 60

    Akuma M red fireball: 61
    FANG Nishikyu: 61
    Rashid EX Whirlwind: 61 (* recovery cancellable)
    Ibuki air Kunai release: 66
    Akuma H red fireball: 67
    Laura Clap lv2: 68
    Urien charged EX Sphere (ground): 68
    Akuma EX red fireball: 69

    Rashid H Whirlwind: 71 (* recovery cancellable)
    Urien charged H sphere: 72
    Urien charged L Sphere: 81
    Laura Clap lv3: 83
    Urien charged M Sphere: 83

    MISSING:
    M. Bison VS fireball
    Ryu VT Hadoukens (charged/uncharged)

    Some interesting things to notice:
    - as expected, Ibuki has the overall fastest projectile in the entire game, but due to its nature she can't put up any fireball war with anyone
    - Juri's low projectile has actually the 2nd fastest recovery in the game (even less if you consider that she can cancel it), but she has to store it first
    - Chun in general has a surprisingly good fireball game, but she also requires the most charge time
    - only Guile, Ibuki, Juri and Nash have projectiles that are faster than the fastest jumps in the game (38f)
    - all of Akuma's red fireballs are terribly punishable by jump-ins. All other projectiles with that startup have AA properties
    - despite the appearances and the slow startup, Laura can keep up with Akuma, Ryu, Nash (except H boom), Ken, Urien and Rashid with her regular uncharged fireball. The projectile though disappears pretty fast
    - nobody can keep up with Guile in a fireball war except Chun if she spends meter
    - Urien has to charge his fireballs to keep up with anyone, and even with that he can't keep up with Guile
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    edited February 26
    Urien doesn't really need to keep up with fireballs as his are more so designed to just take up space. His MP fireball is probably the fastest traveling non EX fireball in the game so it's essentially a slower Dhalsim normal in the form of a fireball. If you know the opponent is going to poke or generally do something that isn't jumping they're forced to respect it immediately. Then of course you can mix it up with AA fireball to deter them from jumping.


    Gonna start the first set of matchups we'll discuss. I'll choose about 4 or 5 matchups I feel are interesting enough to start.

    I'll be coloring in the matchup chart I made as we gain more concrete numbers for each matchup. Orange will be matchup we are discussing and green will be the numbers are finalized (for the time being).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13j-lnEn2AaDvgHiZZ9J4vUZiBXsU7VbvEW2lAanqQiM/edit#gid=0



    Boxer vs Guile. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Boxer's favor)


    Video Chris G Guile vs PR Rog Boxer

    Feel this would be a good one to start with. 2 of the supposed strongest characters in the game. Guile tends to be discussed as best in the game (even though I don't personally think so). Either way it's good for Guile to be strong in a game that people tend to say is too offensive/momentum based. He can keep that part of the game in check.

    As for the matchup I feel this is one of those matchups where Rog tends to have the advantage. Especially once he gets meter as he'll have a lot of options to bully the projectile game and seems to be able to matchup with Guile's buttons alright. Jump normals like Rog's j.MK can nicely sail over a predicted sonic boom and tag him into full combos. Guile gets his V Trigger quicker with 2 bars now which is good to help take command of the neutral and turn things around, but it's just not as explosive as Rog's V Trigger which gives you like 3 or 4 chances to take 30 percent or more of your opponent's life away per chance.



    Urien vs Gief. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Urien's favor)

    Video Itazan Gief vs Duke Urien

    The number I have for this matchup might be kinda off and they're just placeholder, but I think this is a matchup where Urien has a lot of tools to command the neutral. That's not to say that Gief doesn't have options and probably more than he did before, just Urien is obviously going to be able to put more things on screen than Gief can. Gief has to health to take a crush counter or 2 from Urien and Gief putting crush counters on Urien will hurt him, but he can take it as well. I've noticed charged fireball can particularly be a challenge for Gief although he can headbutt the fireball and I believe block the second hit or cancel into another move to try and nullify the second hit. Both Urien and Gief V Triggers seem dangerous for each other as Urien can litearlly put up a wall against Gief to zone him rather freely unless he has V Trigger. Whereas Gief shuts down a lot of Urien's normal zoning once he gets trigger ready.

    Guile has strong basic movement, but he doesn't have any body hurling moves to throw him out of the way of a corner. So once he gets pushed towards a corner, odds are Boxer will keep him there or kill him there.

    Ibuki vs Dhalsim. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Ibuki's favor)


    Video Majorboy Ibuki vs YHC Mochi Sim

    Dhalsim has options to pester Ibuki with in this match, but with her buffed health and faster kunai reloading, she definitely has what she needs to kill Sim faster than he can kill her. He can't really take up the air space too much with his fireball as any MK command dash can just dash in and punish him on reaction. He has some good buttons like s.HP, s.HK, s.MP and s.MK to pester her with, but she can counter poke with her f+HK, s.MK and can even occasionally catch his limbs with a LP raida which essentially sucks him in. Dives can be annoying but Ibuki can use HK kazekiri to stuff early attempts to dive. Generally once Ibuki gets in with meter (especially V Trigger) he has to get really scared as all it takes is one hit to start tearing into his health and stun and he only has so many V Reversals to get her off. Which even if he does she still has the movement and ranged game with her kunais to always force respect out of him from a range. Especially now that Ibuki players have refined her post combo oki and reset game, he can't survive too long against her post combo set play anymore (especially with the buffs in her conversions and frame traps)

    Her HK command dash and faster jump speed help a lot vs Sim as he has to do a lot of committing to keep her from getting in from the air. All it takes is one landed jump in or frame trap off the cross up and she's in.


    Ryu vs Vega. (Theoretical numbers 5/5)

    Video Daigo Ryu vs Pontio Vega

    I've heard this matchup may be in Ryu's favor still, but just threw the numbers down as even for placeholder. From what I've heard it's mainly Ryu's projectile game and DP that forces a certain amount of respect from Vega. I guess parry may be able to gain Ryu heavier punishes on some of Vega's neutral tools as well.


    Juri vs Fang. (Theoretical numbers 6.5/3.5 in Juri's favor)


    This is a matchup I've wanted to discuss as I'm picking up Juri now and always wondered how she fared vs him. There's almost no high level footage of this matchup in Season 2 that I've found. Which is good because it makes this more of an interesting matchup to discuss. Wanted to pick at least one weird matchup. I'm thinking her new charged v skill pretty much shuts down any projectile game he may want to try. Which considering that's a big part of how he sets up poison that should force a lot of respect out of him. With that said I've seen that his HP poison balls can stuff random attempts to charge the v skill are definitely going to outrange hers with the threat of some solid CC buttons. Interesting to see how we can make this one play out.
    Post edited by DevilJin 01 on

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,404
    edited February 26
    Might as well put my numbers down , probably won't be agreed with but -

    3.5 - 6.5 Guile

    4-6 Rog, Rashid, Bison, Dhalsim, Urien,

    4.5 - 5.5 Necalli, Cammy

    5-5 - Chun, Nash, Laura, Zangief, Vega, Akuma, Karin, Juri, Alex, Birdie,Ken, Mika, Ibuki

    6-4 Fang (debatable still)

    Matches that could change by .5 would be Ken down, Laura up and possibly Bison down.

    Bison I feel is not explored and underrated, at least against Ryu he removes Ryus fireball almost completely from the match ( v-skill, axe punch, Headstomp) which is always a telling sign.

    Zangief is another possible up because of the meter build on headbutt.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,191
    GREAT POST!
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,404
    Nice , I'm was half way through making a vid with the same info but left it because of the patch. Great work!
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,011
    sim doesn't have a throw loop midscreen since throw > dash forward > throw whiffs unless you take a tiny step forward first. which they can jab you out of or just walk backwards since sim's lows are unsafe on hit at that range
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,943
    This makes me realise that I need to study character oki and all the bullshit characters setups and whatnot but that shit bores the hell out of me. :(
    [SFV] Ken
    [USFIV] Ken
    [GG-XRD] Sol
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    edited February 27
    Quark wrote: »
    sim doesn't have a throw loop midscreen since throw > dash forward > throw whiffs unless you take a tiny step forward first. which they can jab you out of or just walk backwards since sim's lows are unsafe on hit at that range

    You're right that he isn't exactly in range for a throw. However if you time it right the jab shouldn't work since it extends the hurtbox enough to let him catch the opponent (tested it on Laura, I guess everyone else is the same). It's pretty much the same situation as Ryu's corner loop. Thanks btw, I'll add that to the post.

    I also forgot that Laura actually has a throw loop in the corner (though it requires a very precise timing). I forgot to test the walk forward option for some reason, lol.

    P.S. I also edit Alex because I really forgot a ton of options.
    Post edited by OceanMachine on
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,011
    edited February 27
    I don't see the point of going for a throw in situations where the throw will whiff unless they press a button, though. why wouldn't you just go for a meaty in that situation? you get much higher reward on hit than a throw, and if they decide to block you're still at advantage instead of having your throw whiff in front of their face and then eating a full punish.

    and meaty combos into knockdown will almost always give better oki than throws anyways
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    My goal wasn't to say which option is better, but only which option is possible and in which situation.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,034
    Karin has a decent corner throw loop setup, although it requires timing. Didn't see it in the list.
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    Karin's throw loop in the corner is there.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,034
    Karin's throw loop in the corner is there.

    In the number of characters results part I meant.
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
    If interested in SFEX2+ matchmaking: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SFEX2P
    CFN: AceKombat Steam: xAceKombatx
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    I KNEW there was someone missing lol.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,002
    Added Kolin.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    Finally found some decent Fang vs Juri footage now that Infiltration is playing ranked again.

    Although there's probably some skill difference here, it goes how I figured it would go. Using charged V Skill to deter Fang from playing his ranged game. Which forces him to come in and hit buttons. Which while he is solid at doing that, doesn't open up as much opportunities to set up poison. Her backdash with the V Skill charging and faking the charge really forces Fang out of his element it seems. Just a lot of rounds where he can't approach or zone too well due to moving backwards with the V Skill. Not to mention she can pressure and frame trap him well with a 3 frame c.LK and other plus buttons while he only has 4 frame buttons and a reversal that loses to throws.

    I say it's easily 6 4 in her favor and probably still stick to 6.5 in her favor since there doesn't seem to be much he can do once she's all charged up.




    @Highlandfireball

    I know you said you thought Fang vs Ryu was about even. Wondering if you see Daigo doing anything here that you aren't already doing and more in depth thoughts about the matchup.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,387
    snip
    Like 3 more things:
    -EX flip kick is another really strong anti zoning move here, it will punish him for doing Nishikyu from almost full screen.
    -sMK is really really good against him in neutral. Trades and beats his MP buttons very well.Since his forward walk speed is so poor she can bully him with sMK pretty well.
    -I'm still not sure how useful this is but sHK will go over Ryobenda puddle at a pretty good range/trade with him in her favor from what I've seen.
    Also, Juri can get charges pretty safely in this MU from my experiences...
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    SFV:Bison,Ed,Abigail.BB:Susanoo
    Ed_SFV Discord:
    https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,269 mod
    Yeah the matchup generally looks pretty lopsided in her favor once she gets started. Fang seems to have to do all the committing and there's more things she can react to once she's stored and metered up.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 756
    Can we discuss about rog vs Laura? Why do rog players think it's one of his worse matchup?
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,461 mod
    Los wrote: »
    Can we discuss about rog vs Laura? Why do rog players think it's one of his worse matchup?

    One of the few matches where he actually loses options
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 756
    How so? Her mp fireball stops him from doing random straight until he gets meter, but after that he can ex screw through it or ex straight if she tries to charge and get the 2/3 hitter (or even the dash low charge if he reacts fast enough).
    When she knocks him down, wake up tap has to be on the back of her mind because you can't dash in grab/command grab like you do against other characters. After an mp elbow knockdown, for example, you can't dash in regular throw because even if you're able to jab after your throw recovers, you'll trade at best and he's able to combo from that.
    He's considered a big body character, so your non vtrigger ex fireball mixups always land in front if you reset with st hp. You can use st mk but that always lands behind, defeating the purpose of the mixup.
    He has very strong corner carry combos, especially in vtrigger, and she suffers more than other characters in that position (same reason why I think necalli is a bad-ish matchup for her)
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,461 mod
    EX fireball strings are what I mainly see Laura's use against Balrog players, in the corner it sets up some of the scariest offense that Rog just has to respect. I'm not a Laura player though. I've seen her lock Balrog in the corner a lot, EX Fireball and fireball in general locks him in.
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 756
    That's not only against rog though. I saw someone call it an "unwinnable" matchup...
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,191
    Los wrote: »
    That's not only against rog though. I saw someone call it an "unwinnable" matchup...

    It's her fireball dude. When I've heard rog talk about it it's always her fireball. Rogs a charge character so the proximity lockdown of the fireball messes with him. He can't back away and gain charge, he has to jump back and lose space. He can ex through it if close and he has a good read or great reactions, but get it blocked and he going for a ride. Rog can't use v skill to go through fireball. He either hits it in startup with sweep or armor punch, or goes through it with armor. Or takes Laura's pressure or jumps backwards and corners himself.

    Rog has no reversals so Laura's pressure game against him is real.

    So he's uncomfortable at best at neutral and then lauras pressure dominates him on oki and when inside.

    In this match which idom loses, you can see all the trouble that Laura's fireball gives rog when spaced correctly just outside of rogs medium attack range where rog has to commit to beating the fireball with a sweep or an armor punch.

    Idom loses because reasons, but he's been winning this particular matchup against smug for over 6 months.

    All you really need to know is that the fireball gives rog huge troubles and that's enough to beat most balrogs if you are a decent Laura that doesn't telegraph the heck out of her fireball.


    Gettin' my derp on.
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 756
    These two played so much against each other that the matchup becomes a bit blurry. Smug is playing against Idom, not Laura, and vice versa, you know what I mean?
    But anyway,
    Round 1 game 1 starts with a good reaction from idom on smug's vskill, which nets him a knockdown and a good sequence. Smug gets then counter hit after a meaty st hp (+0 at best on block), fails the first guess on the command grab but succeeds on the second one and almost steals the round with his vtrigger.
    Round 2 game 1 Idom fails a crucial punish on a poorly spaced dash straight and gets bullied in the corner until he dies.
    In round 3 game 1 smug used his ex screw and traded, it was definitely in his favour though (knockdown and decent chunk of damage). He could have easily swept her the other three or four times she charged a fireball right under his nose, but I think he was committed to those level 3 to 5 taps.
    Round 1 game 2 two fully charged fireballs go unchecked. A lucky st hk CC nets idom a knockdown. Again the counter hit after a blocked st hp. Also, smug is expecting more command grabs which lets him eat a fireball on his last wake up.
    A good showcase is round 2 of game 2. At 87 seconds they are close to the half of the stage. Idom blocks an ex straight, a jab, and a level 4 tap, and he's in the corner. He then escapes only because smug lets him charge a full fireball in sweep range, and then he gets hit by an ex straight when trying to charge another one towards the end.
    Round 3 of game 2 is textbook sfv. Corner -> shimmy -> stun with one hit -> dead.

    Idom's play style looks both effective and annoying to play against, but I don't think it's anything specific to balrog
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,191
    I'm just telling you what both balrogs and Laura's have told me. And my own experiences with using Laura in the matchup. If you disagree then that's fine, but I'll take the word of the mountains of evidence that I have in my own play plus arguably the best Laura and rog out there and my own offline peeps that I've discussed this with till I see some stuff to indicate otherwise.
    Gettin' my derp on.
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