SFV Matchup Chart. S2 Boxer vs Guile; Urien vs Gief; Ibuki vs Sim; Ryu vs Vega; Juri vs FANG

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Comments

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,012
    To make it simple, Laura and Rog have a similar build (3 framer, frame traps, linear pressure, burst damage, a frame 3 armored move, no invincible reversal). Laura has a meterless tool that shuts down the main tool Rog has to get in, i.e. a slow moving fireball he will run into and that you can't easily get around with vskill. Balrog does have a throw invincible move with TAP, but below lvl 7 it's only frame 3, which means that a tick throw with her +3 oB st. LK will work regardless.
    So Laura has a defensive option that Rog doesn't have, and she has an offensive option that kills Rog's best tool against grapplers.

    I don't think the MU is heavily in her favour, but clap and st. LK definitely give her an edge over him.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • LosLos Joined: Posts: 756
    Dime_x wrote: »
    I'm just telling you what both balrogs and Laura's have told me. And my own experiences with using Laura in the matchup. If you disagree then that's fine, but I'll take the word of the mountains of evidence that I have in my own play plus arguably the best Laura and rog out there and my own offline peeps that I've discussed this with till I see some stuff to indicate otherwise.

    Jeez why so defensive? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just trying to understand.
    Calling your personal play and talk with your friends a mountain of evidence is a bit of a stretch though
    To make it simple, Laura and Rog have a similar build (3 framer, frame traps, linear pressure, burst damage, a frame 3 armored move, no invincible reversal). Laura has a meterless tool that shuts down the main tool Rog has to get in, i.e. a slow moving fireball he will run into and that you can't easily get around with vskill. Balrog does have a throw invincible move with TAP, but below lvl 7 it's only frame 3, which means that a tick throw with her +3 oB st. LK will work regardless.
    So Laura has a defensive option that Rog doesn't have, and she has an offensive option that kills Rog's best tool against grapplers.

    I don't think the MU is heavily in her favour, but clap and st. LK definitely give her an edge over him.

    Ok, I can see that.
    Slightly in her favour is what I feel as well. Far away from the 7-3s or worse you see flying around.

    Is there a balrog main who can give us an insight from the other perspective?
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    I think Rog's v trigger and damage output alone keeps him from having too many 3 7 matchups. If the Rog player makes good reads the matchup won't matter as much because they will always convert into something damaging with you in the corner or near the corner.


    Kinda like how Mika's matchups always start to even out once she corner carries you. Everybody is going to get similarly wrecked by corner game Mika

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Marmalade_JonesMarmalade_Jones Joined: Posts: 328
    Sim vs.

    Ryu-6-4
    Chun-6-4
    Nash-6-4
    Bison-4-6
    Cammy-4.5-5.5
    Birdie-5.5-4.5
    Ken-5-5
    Necalli-4-6
    Vega-4-6
    Mika-4-6
    Rashid-3-7
    Karin-5.5-4.5
    Gief-6-4
    Laura-3-7
    F.A.N.G.-5-5
    Alex-5.5-4.5
    Guile-5.5-4.5
    Ibuki-4-6
    Balrog-3-7
    Juri-4-6
    Urien-4-6
    Akuma-5-5
    Kolin-5-5

    His new cr.mk will help him to keep pressure better after drills and up-close attacks by deterring characters from simply walking back to get out of his throw range. This will help out a lot in MU's agaist characters with fast backwalk speeds.

    Right now, the only other changes I would want for Sim is j.mp changed to hit grounded opponents,; j.mp, j.lp, and j.mk being Vskill cancellable on hit only; b.mp being changed to 7F startup from 8F; and gale input being changed to QCF+K.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,206
    Los wrote: »
    Dime_x wrote: »
    I'm just telling you what both balrogs and Laura's have told me. And my own experiences with using Laura in the matchup. If you disagree then that's fine, but I'll take the word of the mountains of evidence that I have in my own play plus arguably the best Laura and rog out there and my own offline peeps that I've discussed this with till I see some stuff to indicate otherwise.

    Jeez why so defensive? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just trying to understand.
    Calling your personal play and talk with your friends a mountain of evidence is a bit of a stretch though
    To make it simple, Laura and Rog have a similar build (3 framer, frame traps, linear pressure, burst damage, a frame 3 armored move, no invincible reversal). Laura has a meterless tool that shuts down the main tool Rog has to get in, i.e. a slow moving fireball he will run into and that you can't easily get around with vskill. Balrog does have a throw invincible move with TAP, but below lvl 7 it's only frame 3, which means that a tick throw with her +3 oB st. LK will work regardless.
    So Laura has a defensive option that Rog doesn't have, and she has an offensive option that kills Rog's best tool against grapplers.

    I don't think the MU is heavily in her favour, but clap and st. LK definitely give her an edge over him.

    Ok, I can see that.
    Slightly in her favour is what I feel as well. Far away from the 7-3s or worse you see flying around.

    Is there a balrog main who can give us an insight from the other perspective?

    47:00

    He names one thing as the reason why Laura gives balrog problems, I'll let you guess what it is.

    Gettin' my derp on.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    Interesting note is that Bornfree says that PR Rog has picked up Alex of all characters to help counter pick Gief.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,206
    In my time dabbling with Alex he kinda smashes gief. His cr.mp is the anti gief button.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,259
    edited May 23
    Obviously Rog will probably win if he gets a hit with vtrigger and converts into a big combo. That's almost axiomatic. Saying he beats a character because of it is like saying Birdie wins because of his trigger. The thing you have to remember is the match doesn't start with trigger and he has to get the hit once he gets trigger. Characters that beat him in neutral and put him on defense are the ones that beat him. For example: Laura, Mika, Gief, Cammy, Kolin, Rashid, Vega and Bison.

    Post edited by Bill on
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    edited May 23
    Bill wrote: »
    Obviously Rog will probably win if he gets a hit with vtrigger and converts into a big combo. That's almost axiomatic. Saying he beats a character because of it is like saying Birdie wins because of his trigger. The thing you have to remember is the match doesn't start with trigger and he has to get the hit once he gets trigger. Characters that beat him in neutral and put him on defense are the ones that beat him. For example: Laura, Mika, Gief, Cammy, Kolin, Vega and Bison.

    Don't buy it one bit. Balrog has a very easy time getting into his V-Trigger compared to most of the cast.

    Burst damage especially when you have a lot of ways to get into that burst damage can even up match ups that would normally be bad especially when the opposing character doesn't have the same level of burst damage. Also the point about starting with trigger is irrelevant when you are guaranteed to get it every round unless you burn it all on V-Reversal.

    Balrog pretty much shits on anyone who can't match his burst factor.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • FrozteyFroztey The Ascended One Joined: Posts: 8,461 mod
    Bill wrote: »
    Obviously Rog will probably win if he gets a hit with vtrigger and converts into a big combo. That's almost axiomatic.

    I have never seen a round where Balrog doesn't have VT stocked, or doesn't get ample opportunity to pop it.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    There are rounds where Rog spends V Reversals and ends up going the round without getting V Trigger. It just only really happens vs characters with strong offense and not that often.

    Rog can still kill you without getting V Trigger so in the grand scale it doesn't matter much. Most of the high tiers don't need their trigger to kill you. Ibuki, Rog, Laura, Urien all have dangerous set play without their trigger

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,474
    Link to most recent MU chart?
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 749
    Thought I'd throw in my opinion of Karin's season 2 matchups:

    6-4: Ken, Juri, Nash, Alex, Necalli, Ryu.


    5-5: Akuma, Chun, Cammy, Kolin, Bison, Laura, Mika, Urien, Rashid, Ibuki, Guile, Vega, FANG.


    4-6: Gief, Birdie, Dhalsim (slight loss), Balrog
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,871
    edited July 21
    what character beats gief and birdie and isnt guile or sim
    Northeast PA
    570 Necro
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,012
    what character beats gief and birdie and isnt guile or sim

    Abigail
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,012
    I can't really check because the frame data tool doesn't work with the latest SFV version.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    Ok I guess I'll mess around with it in training sometime.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,012
    I confirm it's true. However Necalli can't do anything mid screen since he's too far for jabs to connect after dash. Karin can't do much either if she didn't V-Reversal right in their face.
    [SFV] Laura, Vega [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie [Xrd] Leo
    [BBCF] Bullet [T7] Claudio
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    Ah ok so I guess at best it's just an advantage to make a move over the opponent and no real meaty setup.

    Interesting that Abigail gets legit meaties. Doubt it's intentional, but it'll be cute for him to have for a little while. He has some really unique properties to him like having double the pre jump frames of other characters.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • itzpookiieitzpookiie Joined: Posts: 3,501
    What do you guys think about birdie v Karin matchup
    i think it's 5.5 but Karin thread seem to think otherwise
  • itzpookiieitzpookiie Joined: Posts: 3,501
    what character beats gief and birdie and isnt guile or sim

    Nash
    Urien
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    edited July 27
    Of course the Karin thread seems to think otherwise. It's a character thread where the bias is always super real.

    With that said I've heard Birdie and Karin players alike since the launch of the game say that Birdie can be tough for Karin. if she gets in she most likely tears him up, but he puts up a lot of a neutral wall that she doesn't have to commonly deal with vs other characters. I'd say she might be a 4 6 vs a super optimal Birdie, but maybe only 4.5 at worst.



    Seeing Punk switch to Nash (and apparently also picked up Chun) to deal with Gief I assume that these big, armor/flex characters are a bit rough for her.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • itzpookiieitzpookiie Joined: Posts: 3,501
    edited July 27
    Of course the Karin thread seems to think otherwise. It's a character thread where the bias is always super real.

    With that said I've heard Birdie and Karin players alike since the launch of the game say that Birdie can be tough for Karin. if she gets in she most likely tears him up, but he puts up a lot of a neutral wall that she doesn't have to commonly deal with vs other characters. I'd say she might be a 4 6 vs a super optimal Birdie, but maybe only 4.5 at worse.



    Seeing Punk switch to Nash (and apparently also picked up Chun) to deal with Gief I assume that these big, armor/flex characters are a bit rough for her.

    Flex is different from birdie armor though since he can SPD right after but birdie is - on block
    Plus gief vreversal is much scarier situation

    Gief vs Karin is really differentl from birdie vs Karin


    Once Karin in it's really hard to get her off
    If birdie uses vreversal that'll set him back from vt and doesn't give him much
    If birdie uses ex bullhorn he's super -minus

    5-5 for me
    5.5-4.5 at worst
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 55,331 mod
    itzpookiie wrote: »
    Of course the Karin thread seems to think otherwise. It's a character thread where the bias is always super real.

    With that said I've heard Birdie and Karin players alike since the launch of the game say that Birdie can be tough for Karin. if she gets in she most likely tears him up, but he puts up a lot of a neutral wall that she doesn't have to commonly deal with vs other characters. I'd say she might be a 4 6 vs a super optimal Birdie, but maybe only 4.5 at worse.



    Seeing Punk switch to Nash (and apparently also picked up Chun) to deal with Gief I assume that these big, armor/flex characters are a bit rough for her.

    Flex is different from birdie armor though since he can SPD right after but birdie is - on block
    Plus gief vreversal is much scarier situation


    Once Karin in it's really hard to get her off
    If birdie uses vreversal that'll set him back from vt
    If birdie uses ex bullhorn he's super -

    5-5 for me
    5.5-4.5 at worst

    Pretty much my sentiment. Even or slight disadvantage. Karin is just going to get too much reward when she finally does get in and his close game doesn't threaten her to level that Gief's does.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • NCK_FeroceNCK_Feroce <------Not a Shill ('til Makoto happen) Joined: Posts: 2,764
    I think is a 5-5.

    Birdie controls the match in the mid-range where Karin usually abuse her footsies. The latter needs to gets in patiently taking less damage possible during the process. Putting Birdie into the corner will make the MU way more easier for Karin,from there she has everything to stop Birdie escape attempts. Her throw range is good enough to stop Birdie EX moves and even jumping away isn't an option from there. The most the Birdie player can keep out Karin the better, when she's close he need to don't panic and block. Taking even just a throw midscreen puts Birdie in a safer place since Karin can't get nothing from it.
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