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  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    I'm curious. What are the things Alan Moore has done to make him such a despicable human being?

    "We have no idea." - All Marvel employees past and present. :P

  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm genuinely curious why some here are willing to go so far as to say, "he's a shitty person." Are people upset that Alan Moore isn't a fan of DC and Marvel comics?

    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • ReirakuReiraku Joined: Posts: 865
    I remember when his niece showed him the Saturday Morning Watchmen. He didn't speak to her for a week after that
  • P. GorathP. Gorath @ButtonMashLA Joined: Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    How the hell did Howard Mackie get dragged into this? He isn't some big name or writer that is talked about as being one of the best. He simply had solid runs on popular titles during the 90s.
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,585
    Dunno I just had a flashback of that fucking Spider-Man clone saga and spit out his name in disgust.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,574
    Clone Saga isn't Mackie's fault.
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,897
    I'm curious. What are the things Alan Moore has done to make him such a despicable human being?

    Dude is a douche who can never be appeased, like there noting you can do to make him happy.
    He hates how his comics get adapted, but when offered a paid role of being an consultant and being on the writing staff he upright refuses.
    Moore is a jerk to everyone, he a douche to his fans, he makes his coworkers lives a living hell, he even would shit on his own family, and he thinks being British makes him entitled to be so.
    Fuck Moore.

    I am not even going to go into his personal political and religious views (thats a topic for a different thread) , although finding out about his personal views I can see how he took the direction he did for V for Vendetta.

    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    Mackie's more "famous" for the Mackie Reboot in Spider-Man. It was Spider-Man after Mary Jane was supposedly killed in an airplane explosion making Spider-Man single again. It was dreadful. Worse than Brand New Day. At least early Brand New Day had some charm to it in the beginning, but the multiple writers and repeating of the same beats killed it quick. The Mackie Reboot however was DOA.

    The New Clone Saga Mackie did with DeFalco a few years ago wasn't bad. No one for a second believes it was the original intent for the 90s Clone Saga as advertised. Everyone knows it was really a stunt to make Spider-Man single again. But the new mini was fun.

    And Todd Nuack pencils! He really needs more Marvel work. He mostly does PR and ads for Marvel these days. Follow him on Facebook if you can. He tosses up great artwork daily.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So I got the entire Lee/Ditko run of Amazing Spider-Man to re-read. I haven't read that stuff in years but I guess Spider-Man Homecoming got me wanting to check out that material again. I got them via the Marvel Epic Collection so it's nice to have them in color. These will do until I finally decided to get the first Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus.

    Speaking of Spider-Man, I haven't really touched the main line books since the atrocity that is One More Day. Brand New Day was not for me and One Moment in Time was more Quesada fan wankery. But Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows sounds like it would be something I would enjoy.

    Oh, I'm also gonna be checking out the Spidey series via TPBs.

    While I'm on the subject of the web slinger...




    Yeah, I am not feeling this new Spider-Man cartoon.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    Lee/Ditko run was great. The book changed with John Romita Sr. All of a sudden Spider-Man became a cool kid instead of Ditko's weird oddly dressed outsider. It felt like a natural progression to me though.

    I don't have numbers but I'm hearing that Renew Your Vows is outselling Amazing Spider-Man now. Crazy how Marvel thinks people don't want the Spider-Marriage. Ultimately we just want a well written book and Spider-Man characters written in character. Something ASM hasn't given us in a long time.

    Not crazy about the new cartoon but at least Drake Bell is not voicing Spider-Man. He sounds like Johnny Test there. I absolutely could not stand Drake Bell's little monkey girl scream. He does it in every episode of Ultimate Spider-Man now. So freaking bad.
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Howard Mackie is probably a nice guy but his comics were wack. He may not be solely responsible for the Clone Saga, but it's not like he ever wrote anything that was halfway decent, either.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Dude is a douche who can never be appeased, like there noting you can do to make him happy.
    He hates how his comics get adapted, but when offered a paid role of being an consultant and being on the writing staff he upright refuses.
    Moore is a jerk to everyone, he a douche to his fans, he makes his coworkers lives a living hell, he even would shit on his own family, and he thinks being British makes him entitled to be so.
    Fuck Moore.

    I am not even going to go into his personal political and religious views (thats a topic for a different thread) , although finding out about his personal views I can see how he took the direction he did for V for Vendetta.

    Not knowing Alan Moore personally, and having never even met him in passing, I'll have to take your word that he's a jerk to everyone, he's a douche to his fans, and would shit on his own family. That seems a bit extreme to me, but if that's what he really does to the people who love him, then yeah, he's a despicable piece of human filth.

    However, regarding how he hates how his comics are adapted, I believe his issue has more to do with ownership and creators' right more than anything. I remember he said he liked how Justice League Unlimited did an adaptation of For the Man Who Has Everything. He's washed his hands of Watchmen, and DC, due to how DC swindled him out of it. So I can't really blame him for not wanting to be involved in any of the movies that DC has made based on his works. It's not about the money at some point - it's about principles. I respect that.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 3
    But I'm glad I'm not related to him - I don't want his excrement anywhere near me.

    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,897
    Howard Mackie is probably a nice guy but his comics were wack. He may not be solely responsible for the Clone Saga, but it's not like he ever wrote anything that was halfway decent, either.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Dude is a douche who can never be appeased, like there noting you can do to make him happy.
    He hates how his comics get adapted, but when offered a paid role of being an consultant and being on the writing staff he upright refuses.
    Moore is a jerk to everyone, he a douche to his fans, he makes his coworkers lives a living hell, he even would shit on his own family, and he thinks being British makes him entitled to be so.
    Fuck Moore.

    I am not even going to go into his personal political and religious views (thats a topic for a different thread) , although finding out about his personal views I can see how he took the direction he did for V for Vendetta.

    Not knowing Alan Moore personally, and having never even met him in passing, I'll have to take your word that he's a jerk to everyone, he's a douche to his fans, and would shit on his own family. That seems a bit extreme to me, but if that's what he really does to the people who love him, then yeah, he's a despicable piece of human filth.

    However, regarding how he hates how his comics are adapted, I believe his issue has more to do with ownership and creators' right more than anything. I remember he said he liked how Justice League Unlimited did an adaptation of For the Man Who Has Everything. He's washed his hands of Watchmen, and DC, due to how DC swindled him out of it. So I can't really blame him for not wanting to be involved in any of the movies that DC has made based on his works. It's not about the money at some point - it's about principles. I respect that.

    The problem being with out Moore complains he was swindled, he tried to paint himself into another Jack Kirby. His story was never the case.
    Jack Kirby only wanted recognition and his own fair slice of the Pie. It took his family to sue after his death for his estate to see any of that money.

    Moore is no Kirby, not by a mile, not by a thousand miles.

    Moore got more than enough Recognition, and he was offered money time and time again (and Moore refused). Moore's principles lose out as he wanted special-snow flake artistic integrity on top of everything else.
    Moore issue is not that he didn't get recognition for his work and offered money, he never wanted his works adapted in the first place. Moore felt his work could only exist in it's original medium in print, not even legally bought digital copies, and specially not adapted to TV and Film.
    Moore knew while he worked with other publishers that they own the property not him, they not just include his name on the work, they headline his name. Books sold because it said "BY ALAN MORE" on the cover more than the characters on the cover. Directors who was using Moore's work and was doing a film adaption practically begged Moore to come and help as a creative consultant and Moore basically spat in their faces.
    Moore renounced magazines like Wizards who held him in high regards and his work on a pedestal because the magazines liked and encourage film adaptions. The one panel Moore did appear on for a comics co. he ripped the Magazine in half in rage.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,295 admin
    Moore hasn't wanted money, though, as you point out - he just wants people to be principled in their dealings. ABC Comics, Miracleman/Marvelman, and the Watchmen movie are recent examples. If it benefitted people he liked, he'd generally roll with things until such time as somebody violated some principle at which point he left in a huff.

    Spat in their faces? I'm pretty sure he just wanted to be left to his own devices. Given that people spoke for him out of context and incorrectly, it seems understandable that he wants nothing to do with the movie peoples.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,574
    What I dislike about Moore is he doesn't seem to like it when writers use his work for their stories. It's like he doesn't understand how continuity is suppose to work
    http://comicsalliance.com/alan-moore-puts-on-red-lantern-ring-takes-a-potshot-at-blackes/
    I was noticing that DC seems to have based one of its latest crossovers in Green Lantern based on a couple of eight-page stories that I did 25 or 30 years ago. I would have thought that would seem kind of desperate and humiliating, When I have said in interviews that it doesn’t look like the American comic book industry has had an idea of its own in the past 20 or 30 years, I was just being mean. I didn’t expect the companies concerned to more or less say, “Yeah, he’s right. Let’s see if we can find another one of his stories from 30 years ago to turn into some spectacular saga.
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  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Preppy is right. And I think Frank Miller is the guy who ripped up a Wizard magazine at a convention panel - or at least, he's the more famous case of it that I've heard of. Also, it was a Wizard magazine. Not exactly a font of analytical journalism.

    Moore's case isn't exactly the same as Kirby's case, but it's still been a matter of being treated fairly and with respect to his contributions. I believe a lot of his dissatisfaction with DC begins with Watchmen. He was swindled out of owning Watchmen. He didn't create the foundation of an entire company's universe, but I don't know how anyone can think Moore and Gibbons got exactly what they deserved for Watchmen. His "complaints" seem justified.

    All the movie stuff you mentioned, Darksakul, is sort of just more justification for him in his mind how he's not being treated well. Again, he's not interested in money. You say he spat in their faces when they offered him money to attach his name to (for example) the V for Vendetta movie. But based on his history with DC (and Warner), why would he want to cooperate? It doesn't sound unwarranted for him to not want to participate in celebrating the movie adaptations of his works. You said that his principles began to lose out as he wanted "snowflake" artistic integrity. But artistic integrity is one of his principles. He would have compromised if he had taken the money and allowed the conglomerate to use his name to promote the movie. Moore had no interest in his comics being adapted into film, and is that so bad? I don't think he was actively trying to stop these productions from being made because he had no legal recourse to block their existence, but he didn't want to participate. If anything, he was the one minding his own business until the movie folks dragged him into the muck.

    As for Moore's comments regarding Blackest Night (and his other rants against mainstream comics), he was/is ignorant. Not that I would ever defend the artistic validity or quality of Blackest Night, but it's obvious he doesn't read mainstream superhero comics. Saying what he said earned him a lot of ire that he probably deserved. His hyperbolic rants are outrageous.

    Eight years ago, he called DC's writers "raccoons" who dig through his trash. Then again, I've seen people on the Internet say harsher things, like saying a guy would shit on his own family. ;)
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,295 admin
    Yeah, it was Frank Miller who tore up the Wizard magazine on-stage way long ago:
    * http://www.peterdavid.net/2014/09/12/frank-miller-vs-wizard-magazine/

    I've heard that Frank Miller has been in a dark bad place for a while now, so while I loathe the guy's work now I'm happy to not think about him. Sin City was great at the time but now it's just painful.

    I liked this quote from Hawkingbird's article:
    I see him as some sort of lunatic genius comics grandpa who sits around in his psychedelic recliner complaining about DC and Marvel like they’re kids on his lawn or something.
    As far as I can recall, he generally doesn't read other people's comics, so when you hear him posturing it's usually just him being cantankerous. His interviews with Predrag have been pretty good over time.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • Tekno VirusTekno Virus small man big strength Joined: Posts: 8,739
    Can anyone recommend me a good read? Last good comic book I read was Ring of Nibelung and Fables.
    The Gates of Creation are manifold. I vow to enter them all.
    Dellusions are inexhaustible.
    I vow to end them all.
    Sentient beings are numberless.
    I vow to save them all.

    The Kree Way is SUPREME.
  • tataa8Ptataa8P tourney. banned. washed-up. veteran. Joined: Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Can anyone recommend me a good read? Last good comic book I read was Ring of Nibelung and Fables.

    Classic: whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?

    Current: secret empire (main series)

    Avoid: civil war II
    modern-day absolute truth™ :
    - Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck-Ups -
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    Today the last issue of Joe Kelly's Spider-Man/Deadpool dropped. Such a good run. We finally get Mephisto and Spider-Man dealing with the ramifications of One More Day, but in a fun way and not in a way that will make you angry about it. I guess for me it's like how I didn't like Avengers Age of Ultron, but Captain America Civil War built from that movie and told a great story.

    If you wish to read it I definitely recommend going the TPB route because they skip the fill in issues that Joe Kelly didn't write. Those are terrible.

    Also read the second issue of Street Fighter vs. Darkstalkers. I had a tough time with issue 1. The crossover felt a bit bizarre like I felt we needed to be eased into the Darkstalkers world existing within a Street Fighter world more. But by issue 2 it's all good. Not sure if I've already embraced the weirdness or there were just enough nods to stuff in current Street Fighter games that made me enjoy it more. I think the art was stronger in issue 1 since this time it falls flat here and there for me, but overall it's really good.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Picked up the Titans Annual #1.
    I'm new to the character of Donna Troy but that bombshell Wonder Woman dropped on her with her having fake memories is gonnna give her SUCH an identity crisis.

    Oh and I see Barry is still calling himself the fastest man alive when that is a bold faced lie. Wally running circles around this man. Saved the Titans and Linda in 6 seconds. Wally has that white lightning while Barry's is still piss yellow!
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,574
    Donna Troy is no stranger to having identity crisis. She gets a new origin almost every time someone writes her.
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,897
    Donna Troy is no stranger to having identity crisis. She gets a new origin almost every time someone writes her.

    I am surprised Donna Troy isn't written to be a robot yet
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm gonna go ahead and pick up Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka Book One. Book Two comes out next month and Book Two of the George Perez Wonder Man run comes out this Tuesday.

    I'd like to add some more Marvel books to my pull list but thus far, all I'm going to start reading is Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows. Kinda surprised Slott is still writing Amazing Spidey these days. I still think his best work on Spidey was the Spider-Man/Human Torch mini series. I used to be primarily a Marvel guy but DC is getting most of my money these days.
  • dn0sdn0s Joined: Posts: 597
    First Deathstroke coming off the Lazarus Contract arc was pretty good.
    It's funny to see a reformed Slade still being the same asshole he always been. His interactions with the new Power Girl are gold.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    edited June 10
  • ZephyranthesZephyranthes Mad Mod Poet God Joined: Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Kinda surprised Slott is still writing Amazing Spidey these days. I still think his best work on Spidey was the Spider-Man/Human Torch mini series.

    I'm with you on that. I reread that Spidey/Torch miniseries fairly recently and it still holds up as a nice comedic work. That might be peak Slott for me.
    This Ain't Kansas. Unabashed and unfiltered comic book commentary and reviews:
    http://madnessvest.blogspot.com/
  • tataa8Ptataa8P tourney. banned. washed-up. veteran. Joined: Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    *sigh*
    DKIII the master race ending is so underwhelming i can't even begin to complain...
    miller losing his edge i guess.
    modern-day absolute truth™ :
    - Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck-Ups -
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Read Flash #24
    The cover said Kid Flash vs. Reverse-Flash at the bottom. That was not a fight in the slightest. That was Black Wally getting curb stomped.
    And this idiot Barry still hasn't told Iris he's the Flash. Pretty sure she's gonna find out pretty soon anyway.

    Titans #12
    So Wally and Donna got together. I haven't read the Made in Manhattan story yet. Was there any build up to that? More than likely, this was just a case of two very hurt, vulnerable people finding each other. I'd say "Poor Roy" but you just know it isn't gonna last. Also, Omen with those sick mind games. Pisomon thought he was running the show. He friggin' thought.

    Bought Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka Book One. Looks like a fun read and I decided to start reading his Rebirth Wonder Woman comics as well. Naturally, I come in at the conclusion of some story called Godwatch and I'm lost on some things but whateves.

    The Black Dawn story in Superman looks freaking lit! I finally got all the back issues to it so I can be all caught up and ready when Superman #25 drops.

    Can anyone recommend some good Marvel reads? Outside of Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows, I have no other Marvel stuff on my pull list. Peter David is writing Scarlet Spider, so I just might check that out. Despite the 1990s Clone Saga, I always did like Ben Reily.
  • tataa8Ptataa8P tourney. banned. washed-up. veteran. Joined: Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    as a stand-alone book and for anybody who just wants an amazing story, superman red son is superb. millar put plenty of nods to the "regular" superman mythos in the storyline and sometimes it felt akin to frank miller's TDKR (because of the paneling maybe, dunno)

    secret empire 4 is awesome, i have re-read it for the 3rd time now.
    the "dinner" scene was great.
    i kept imagining pym/ultron's voice like somebody talking with autotune lol
    fave line was from scott lang, funny AF
    Secret-Empire-4-Marvel-Comics-spoilers-6.jpg
    modern-day absolute truth™ :
    - Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck-Ups -
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,897
    This needs to happen
    19029458_1344332298982498_805849671242595973_n.png?oh=cb5eebeb9475083fba7f8cfe27cf301c&oe=599CBB68

    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • GravityGravity Joined: Posts: 2,421
    tataa8P wrote: »
    secret empire 4 is awesome, i have re-read it for the 3rd time now.
    the "dinner" scene was great.
    i kept imagining pym/ultron's voice like somebody talking with autotune lol

    That entire "family dinner" was pure comedy.

    Pym was calling everyone out on their fuck-ups.
    And Tony's ego couldn't take it :lol:

    Everyone at the damn table knew where tony was headed. They tried to shut him up.
    Being the arrogant prick he is, he crossed that line.

    Thus....
    secret-empire-4-1002791.jpg
  • tataa8Ptataa8P tourney. banned. washed-up. veteran. Joined: Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I gotta hand it to Nick Spencer, the dialogue is top notch. Even Taskmaster gets a good one in about leftovers lololol

    Tony Stark and Hank Pym having planet-sized egos will always find a way to get into a punch-up, especially when a cosmic cube fragment is the issue.

    The final panel gave me a chill with Cap's last remark. Hype AF
    modern-day absolute truth™ :
    - Assumption is the Mother of all Fuck-Ups -
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,062 mod
    In the comics Superman vibrates the molecules in his face differently when he is Clark Kent. So he actually looks different. It's just one of those things that is impossible to pull off in live action.

    I would say Morrison and Quitely's All-Star Superman comic did the best at making Superman and Clark look and seem like different people. In live action Christopher Reeve is the best they've ever gotten with this IMHO.

    Second issue of Eddie Brock Venom was alright. So long as he stops calling the Symbiote "My love" it's cool. Hopefully the writer figured out himself that it was just weird and cut that out.
  • ReggieHadokenReggieHadoken Power Up Joined: Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I had no idea Teen Titans: The Judas Contract got a re-release. I've been wanting to read this story for YEARS. Sure, the TPB doesn't have much in the way of extras outside of two forwards by Wolfman and Perez, but I'm happy to finally be able to have a physical copy of this trade. I think I'll finally start my TPBs of TNTT before I start Reading The Judas Contract.

    Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #1 dropped today. I've never read anything by Chip Zdarsky, but I hear he's good. I decided to pick it this #1. Looks fun. Someone let me know when Slott leaves Amazing.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,295 admin
    I love Zdarsky and would read anything he does just to see where the hell it goes.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382
    "I'm sure you're very wicked people - but how dull it would be if everyone was good."

  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,991
    I've been reading and translating Mike Allred's Silver Surfer and The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl :)
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,585
    Sano wrote: »
    In the comics Superman vibrates the molecules in his face differently when he is Clark Kent. So he actually looks different. It's just one of those things that is impossible to pull off in live action.

    Sounds like some retcon shit, some kind of retard wrote after people were complaining too much how shitty Superman's disguise is.
    Add me for some Tekken 7 if you're from Europe.
    I'm not playing anything else these days:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/NaughtySenpai/