For Honor

2

Comments

  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    Shoulder shrug healing is cancer.
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 974
    If you're looking for some really high level play, check out Pandaego. Not only was he flown out to the PAX event they had to teach newcomers to the game, but he does these little nuances that shows that once you explore the mechanics fully, you're virtually unstoppable. A pretty damn good Warden player.

    This game is a must cop for me.
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 12
    If you're looking for some really high level play, check out Pandaego. Not only was he flown out to the PAX event they had to teach newcomers to the game, but he does these little nuances that shows that once you explore the mechanics fully, you're virtually unstoppable. A pretty damn good Warden player.
    This game is a must cop for me.
    I'm very sceptical about "High level play" right now.
    Basic mechanics are very basic. Most people just don't know them yet. Whole high level play comes to "react to stuff" because offence usually have huge holes in it.

    When I started to play the game I found that basic mechanics are wonky. Game reads inputs weirdly and have very abuseable desicions ( for example: people who break throws like gods are doing it not because they have good reaction but because they "abuse" key binging.) And I just find more and more confirmations that people who code the game have no grasp how to make it work.
    Post edited by Araragi-kun on
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 974
    High level play was a wrong choice of words by me, I apologize. I'd say more along the lines of someone who has a good idea of what to do in various matchups.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    What I've seen from watching better players is that there are serious issues with how easy it is to tech guardbreaks and the risk/reward is all messed up in favor of the defender.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,221
    skills

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    FIGHTING VIPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 13
    High level play was a wrong choice of words by me, I apologize. I'd say more along the lines of someone who has a good idea of what to do in various matchups.
    You don't need to. High level play exists IN SOME KIND OF SENSE now but I just wouldn't call it "really high level play" when game still in beta.
    Muttonman wrote: »
    What I've seen from watching better players is that there are serious issues with how easy it is to tech guardbreaks and the risk/reward is all messed up in favor of the defender.
    Yep.
    Defence is too strong.
    1. IDK for sure but I think almost everything could be deflected with H.Attack. I even saw that Peacekeeper's grab-stabs was "denied" with sound of a deflect (there is so much wrong with it if it is true).
    2. It is very hard to start an offence. Feints are leaving you open for quite long time, guardbreaks can be denied almost completely by binding guardbreak on scroll up\down (works like turbo), dashes are super good and even if you get in you can't dish out a high damage some times (freaking weaboo Orochi can though. Little gimmicky bastard.)
    3. Offence works only when opponent constantly makes wrong decisions or just overwhelmed by random stuff (you need to block in another direction, you can only deflect that follow up, it is a throw now, you should not roll back after that, you better not press an attack now... aaaaaand you're dead)
    4. Revenge can win you a 2v1. People now just engage in 1v1 with random stuff and get owned because of Revenge. You can hold on even against 3 opponents (with special setups) but usually it takes a miracle to actually win 3v1 (to much pokes and revives that you can't usually deny).

    Main meta is to play safe, react to opponent and when he do something punishable, take the advantage and make opponent guess between 2 different responses again and again. Best example is Berserk against Peacekeeper, the one who land a hit (usually the one who reacts to other offence correctly) - wins a fight in one go. Either P.K. just shots down Bers's every option with fast attacks and ability to punish back-rolls or Bers won't go off his chains until he wrecks the P.K. Only deflects can save both sides but they also can kill them easily.

    P.S. Itemization is BULLSHIT.
    1. NOTHING is explained properly.
    2. You can't get out of getting yourself a major weakness (Peace keeper's blade of a sword: you either die even faster or wont do damage or will feint after 3 attacks. What. A. Great. Choice.)
    3. Some stats are retarded. WHO in sane mind won't choose shorter Revenge duration? It is like getting shield AND free knock-back faster. Or why you ever gimp your push distance when it can decide a fight (difference can be felt even on grey items)?

    Some Perks are bullshit.
    1. Bleed 100% resistance on LVL2 is like denial half of the damage from characters based on bleed.
    2. Shrug-heal is cancer and can be combined with Bleed resistance. You can literally heal yourself 1-3 full HP bars when other characters get 1 crossbow\bow shot or axe throw.

    Also finishers take different amount of time, I think. Not a good choice if it really is.
    And "community effort" gameplay is a shitty thing. Game made in the way that if factions are equal no one can push other faction back because proportion of players/regions changing in a favour of losing side. So only last 1 or 2 periods of fighting matter. And if some faction is winning because they have overwhelmingly more players there is no point to play for that faction if you want some stuff in game. It is not a big point BUT basically game just do not reward you for your effort and reward somebody else not for their effort. What is the point to have a design that made specifically to disappoint majority of your players?
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    Other issues: they don't use terminology right. Like they say "has Superior Guard during startup" but it's not during the first few frames of startup and it's not during the last few frames of startup, it's somewhere in the middle.

    Bleed is poorly implemented. There's a reason that Poison in fighting games goes away when you hit the other guy.

    Revives are way too fast. Same with boost acquisition; if a fast class decides to book it you can't catch them in time to stop them from getting a buff or rezzing an ally.

    They really need to allow for controller bindings on PC. L1 should be guardbreak, not fucking quick chat.
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    Muttonman wrote: »
    They really need to allow for controller bindings on PC. L1 should be guardbreak, not fucking quick chat.
    If you use a controller on PC you're doing something wrong. For this game.

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    Muttonman wrote: »
    Bleed is poorly implemented. There's a reason that Poison in fighting games goes away when you hit the other guy.

    Bleed looks like their own way to implement fireball chipping in the game. I just think the classes with that mechanics get too much out of it, especially the Peacekeeper that takes away 40% of your health with a single guard break.
    Muttonman wrote: »
    They really need to allow for controller bindings on PC. L1 should be guardbreak, not fucking quick chat.
    If you use a controller on PC you're doing something wrong. For this game.

    I played with both controller and keyboard, none of them was optimal imho but the game is clearly designed for pad. Blocking in the right direction with a mouse is a nightmare.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 13
    I played with both controller and keyboard, none of them was optimal imho but the game is clearly designed for pad. Blocking in the right direction with a mouse is a nightmare.
    Yes. You need to get used to mouse. But I won't throw away free throw breaks for that. And I didn't even explored other possibilities.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    Throw breaks are reasonably easy to do on pad too. When you watch high level matches you see both players teching throws 80% of the time on reaction. It's definitely not like SF where you can only tech on a read.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 13
    Throw breaks are reasonably easy to do on pad too. When you watch high level matches you see both players teching throws 80% of the time on reaction. It's definitely not like SF where you can only tech on a read.
    I think this argument is invalid until we actually see the input device \ logs in their games. Turbo\scroll abuse make anyone look as a pro.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    edited February 13
    Throw breaks are reasonably easy to do on pad too. When you watch high level matches you see both players teching throws 80% of the time on reaction. It's definitely not like SF where you can only tech on a read.
    I think this argument is invalid until we actually see the input device \ logs in their games. Turbo\scroll abuse make anyone look as a pro.

    You can see if a streamer plays on pad or not. Besides, that doesn't even invalidate my argument.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    I mean, they really should fix the turbo guard break thing as well
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    Muttonman wrote: »
    I mean, they really should fix the turbo guard break thing as well
    No. they should fix the system.
    1. Right now Throws are super good and balanced only by retarded throw breaks (you must press a key when throw connects and there is no punishment for mshing the button).
    2. If they fix it directly and you get lag switch abusing bastards. If they fix just scrolling and people will jump onto key-binging scripts. Both are not detectable by anti-cheat.

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    PC games have been like that since forever. If you fear so much people using scripts then you might want play on console.
    But you will fix the throw break issue for 90% of players by just making the tech window smaller and making the tech attempt fail if you mash it too early.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    PC games have been like that since forever. If you fear so much people using scripts then you might want play on console.
    But you will fix the throw break issue for 90% of players by just making the tech window smaller and making the tech attempt fail if you mash it too early.
    It is not about platform. You can do the same on console and without modding. Also your suggestion is already implemented (you can't mash too early). And making window smaller will make online experience more unreliable.
  • mutantmagnetmutantmagnet Joined: Posts: 83
    And making window smaller will make online experience more unreliable.

    And every suggestion made should always keep this in mind. Ubisoft will want to continue making money off of an online community like Valve does with Team Fortress, Counterstrike and Dota.
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    And making window smaller will make online experience more unreliable.

    And every suggestion made should always keep this in mind. Ubisoft will want to continue making money off of an online community like Valve does with Team Fortress, Counterstrike and Dota.
    They basically done that on launch. I found that you need to break throws much later.

    I think I've done with playing Peacekeeper. They nerfed her damage output once more and now you need to work really hard to win. People will zone you, dash around you with your tiny range and you will need much more good guesses to dish out the damage and risk with reflects and parries much more. And bleed damage is likt 50% from what it was. I'd better switch to some actually good chars.
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 529
    And making window smaller will make online experience more unreliable.

    And every suggestion made should always keep this in mind. Ubisoft will want to continue making money off of an online community like Valve does with Team Fortress, Counterstrike and Dota.
    They basically done that on launch. I found that you need to break throws much later.

    I think I've done with playing Peacekeeper. They nerfed her damage output once more and now you need to work really hard to win. People will zone you, dash around you with your tiny range and you will need much more good guesses to dish out the damage and risk with reflects and parries much more. And bleed damage is likt 50% from what it was. I'd better switch to some actually good chars.

    By lurking in Ubi official forums, I heard that the stab nerf is just a bug, it will not stay that way.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    I'm rocking a 77% on my Lawbringer in Duels, but most of that is just parrying people into wallsplat throws. I like the game, but I really worry that it's going to become a pure turtlefest.
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    I found out that playing in premade is actually a bad experience:
    1. You will be mached with out of your league most of the time. It is nice to challenge yourself but... naaaaaaaah. This isn't a nice experience. Not in a team effort and not in a 4v4 modes. There is near 0 opportunities to get good or learn something and you will just have some salty time.
    2. You will get some nice disconnects and people will lag more often (i suppose it is because premades may play from different locations and there is less ways to exchange data with low ping. So if one guy that tranfer you packets lags it may break the game because whole his premade is trasfering their pacets trough him or something)... anyway chain disconects are common thing.
  • SnakeofNinjutsuSnakeofNinjutsu Kallen Kouzuki FTW Joined: Posts: 322
    edited February 17
    Yup, me and my friend tried doing brawl. I'm level 15 with a high win rate in duels and my buddy just started the game. We were always paired up with prestige players.

    In elimination, power ups shouldn't be available till at least a mintue later. Right now in the beginning of the match, turn around and get a powerup. Nothing can stop you. And defense is just too strong atm. All duels really just consist of defensive play. Some characters have good side dash attacks and literally that's all ppl do. Wait for you to attack then side step cause their attack also has good evasion. Game needs lots of adjustments.
    P4A - Elizabeth
    IGAU - Catwoman
    Jojo - Dio/Giorno
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    I got put into a Skirmish match. That's an even worse gamemode than the other 4v4 matches! I didn't know it was possible!
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 19,981
    Sounds like the game is falling apart already...
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    Sounds like the game is falling apart already...

    There are a bunch of core gameplay issues along with the fact that I don't think the devs had a good idea of how to balance for 1v1s, 2v2s, and 4v4s at the same time.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 19,981
    That does sound like a REALLY tall order as far as balance is concerned. That is a lot of very different competitive scenarios to try and account for in what is a pretty new concept. Be interesting to see how things progress moving forward.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • LarthyLarthy Kissed by a Goddess Joined: Posts: 514
    Can't really expect great balance from the game. But I really love how it serves the role of a game you can always play when everything else would take too much time (even stuff like SFV).

    Get in, decapitate some heads, feel good, get out.

    Should've gotten crossplay implemented though. The one thing that could soon kill it is the playerbase. Its soon to be diminishing size, specifically. With it, longer matchmaking, followed by increasing reluctance to play.
    Steam/CFN ID: Cathrao | SFV: Akuma/Juri
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,301
    Nice. I haven't played it yet...
  • LiangHuBBBLiangHuBBB Joined: Posts: 2,017
    so what's some good starter tips in this game?
    Trying to counter an attack and then doing your own attack?
    LP attack from left and then next attack from right?
    LP attack guardbreak HP attack?
    www.youtube.com/user/LiangHuBBB
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    1. Blocking. Especially at lower levels where everyone mashes, simply being able to block incoming attacks until the end of the string or until the opponent runs out of stamina will give you a net advantage.
    2. Guard break and tech. GB/throw is extremely powerful in the game and if you don't learn to land it or to tech your opponent's you'll be at disadvantage. GB also grants you a side heavy for all classes (some even a top heavy).
    3. Parry. Mastering this one will put you right above any scrub. You can lump deflect for the assassin classes here too. Both parry and deflect give a guaranteed GB.
    4. Feints. At higher levels, heavy feints or unblockable feints are a very common tool both to bait a parry and to mix up your opponent.

    Of course you should mix up the direction of your attacks as much as possible. Remember as a general rule that top attacks tend to be slower and more damaging than side ones.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    LiangHuBBB wrote: »
    so what's some good starter tips in this game?
    Trying to counter an attack and then doing your own attack?
    LP attack from left and then next attack from right?
    LP attack guardbreak HP attack?
    1. Learn specific character stuff. If you dont know what they can do you kinda screwed big time because everything tied around basic tools.
    2. Use defensive tools. but if you go on defense get ready to break throws.
    3. Learn what your character can do and WHY you need to do this.

    EASY WAY Get Berserk: gameplan wait and ready to break thow, dodge into combo.
    Both parry and deflect give a guaranteed GB.
    I don't think so. Parry into thow can go into another attack in chain. Deflect sometimes leave you too far. Even wallslams or falls not always guarantees a free attack.

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    It is character dependent (some of them can't even grab after a parry), but the general rule stands.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    It is character dependent (some of them can't even grab after a parry), but the general rule stands.
    As a Peacekeeper main I can confirm that you can't do damn nothing 90% of the time.
  • JoeyTonesJoeyTones Joined: Posts: 979
    edited February 20
    Can someone explain chain attacks? With Orochi if I go for Heavy, Light, Light, i dont get to continue my pressure if they get hit by the Heavy. They block the follow up light and its their turn. What makes it a chain or "unbroken sequence".
  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 20
    JoeyTones wrote: »
    What makes it a chain or "unbroken sequence".

    Cancer of their coders.
    Chain attacks means (startup1>active1>transition>active2>rollback) not (startup1>active1>rollback1>startup2>active2>rollback2) so if active1 is blocked they have less time to react to attack2 (AND NO TIME TO DODGE OR COUNTER)
    Post edited by Araragi-kun on
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,385
    There are no true "combos" in For Honor (as in, if A hits, doing B after that is guaranteed to hit too) with very few exceptions like Orochi's top light, Warden's side light, Nobushi's poison stab etc. What a "combo" actually means in the game are buttons that can be chained together without going into full recovery between each one of them. An opponent will still be able to block the sequence at any point.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    JoeyTones wrote: »
    Can someone explain chain attacks? With Orochi if I go for Heavy, Light, Light, i dont get to continue my pressure if they get hit by the Heavy. They block the follow up light and its their turn. What makes it a chain or "unbroken sequence".

    Heavies can continue in a chain on block. Lights cannot continue on a chain on block. The exception is on Superior Block which stops heavies from chaining on block. Chains generally continue on whiff as well. You can always continue on hit.

    There are very few true combos in the game; basically stuff off a guardbreak, knockdown, some parries, and then some characters have a trait to get combos.
  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate. Joined: Posts: 11,958
    Waiting for mine to download right now.

    Can't wait to be a Weaboo Warrior. :karate:
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."

  • JoeyTonesJoeyTones Joined: Posts: 979
    Thanks dudes :)
  • thecapsaicinkidthecapsaicinkid drops combo, pretends it's a reset Joined: Posts: 1,016
    edited February 21
    keo-bas wrote: »
    its like asking we should do Gundam VS singles, J-star vs singles. For honor is an Party/team base arena fighter. The mentioned games may provide a single mode but many of the character and mechanics were not designed with singles in mind. I wouldn't be surprise if for honor is like this. I recall hearing how Viking are good in brawling out opponents which will favors single but character like samurai whose support system us volley with poison effect may not be so great in single but effective in party match.
    I couldn't disagree with this any more. It feels like a 1v1 fighter with arena type modes shoe-horned in to attract the COD crowd.

    Saying that, it currently has some real balance issues that would not stand up to high-level play too well. I do find it pretty disappointing how closed the FGC are to new experiences though.
    Fighting game player, coder, chilli lover, ruffian.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,221
    Harada speaks with Jason

    image
    FIGHTING VIPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate. Joined: Posts: 11,958
    Taking a liking to the Shugoki (definitely my main) and Lawbringer. Haven't really tried anyone else, the game is already too much fun learning one character lol.

    I know its only like 2 days in, but how are the tier lists coming along? Just curious to see how people feel on the current meta.

    Conquerer, Shugoki, and Warden seem to be pretty strong.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."

  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 23
    Taking a liking to the Shugoki (definitely my main) and Lawbringer. Haven't really tried anyone else, the game is already too much fun learning one character lol.

    I know its only like 2 days in, but how are the tier lists coming along? Just curious to see how people feel on the current meta.

    Conquerer, Shugoki, and Warden seem to be pretty strong.
    It is hard to talk about tiers when game have progession in terms of items.
    Most of the current tier lists are bullshit. And tier lists should differ from one game mode to another.

    My very general opinions:
    Top:
    Conq - shieldbashes, good 50/50, easy deflects, bash loops. Can't go offensive himself, can't finish opponent in 1 blow.
    Warlord - beardbashes, good 50/50, can trade with people and win, insane shield pushes. Slow.
    Orochi - fast attacks, side dashes into light chains, good 50/50, guardbeaks into heavy, backdash into pain. Suffers if caught on a dash.
    Berserk - side dashes erriwhere, feints, can chain hit you all day very good DPS, guardbreaks with autoguard. Suffers if deflected.
    Mid:
    errione else.
    Bottom:
    Peacekeeper - very fast attacks, can counter autoguard, Bleed, you can't run from her. Low range, one way to get in (and not very good), need tons of effort to actually kill people who block, bleed is bugged, sometimes range will bug out and you will miss dash attacks.
    Raider - Unblockables, can swing axe a lot, good ledge carry. Only fast attack is high, suffers from everyone that faster than him until prestige 3 and free revenge (when he start to 1 v 4 and don't give a shit).
    Judicator - same stuff as Rider.
    Meh.

    Valkyrie will probably go strait to the top tier when she will be buffed. Probably will still need more effort to kill people but will frustrate everyone with her tons of options.

  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 23
    deleted

  • Araragi-kunAraragi-kun Joined: Posts: 330
    edited February 23
    deleted

  • The MartianThe Martian A Terrible Fate. Joined: Posts: 11,958
    Duels don't apply item effects, which is what I was talking about.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."

  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,746
    Taking a liking to the Shugoki (definitely my main) and Lawbringer. Haven't really tried anyone else, the game is already too much fun learning one character lol.

    I know its only like 2 days in, but how are the tier lists coming along? Just curious to see how people feel on the current meta.

    Conquerer, Shugoki, and Warden seem to be pretty strong.
    It is hard to talk about tiers when game have progession in terms of items.
    Most of the current tier lists are bullshit. And tier lists should differ from one game mode to another.

    My very general opinions:
    Top:
    Conq - shieldbashes, good 50/50, easy deflects, bash loops. Can't go offensive himself, can't finish opponent in 1 blow.
    Warlord - beardbashes, good 50/50, can trade with people and win, insane shield pushes. Slow.
    Orochi - fast attacks, side dashes into light chains, good 50/50, guardbeaks into heavy, backdash into pain. Suffers if caught on a dash.
    Berserk - side dashes erriwhere, feints, can chain hit you all day very good DPS, guardbreaks with autoguard. Suffers if deflected.
    Mid:
    errione else.
    Bottom:
    Peacekeeper - very fast attacks, can counter autoguard, Bleed, you can't run from her. Low range, one way to get in (and not very good), need tons of effort to actually kill people who block, bleed is bugged, sometimes range will bug out and you will miss dash attacks.
    Raider - Unblockables, can swing axe a lot, good ledge carry. Only fast attack is high, suffers from everyone that faster than him until prestige 3 and free revenge (when he start to 1 v 4 and don't give a shit).
    Judicator - same stuff as Rider.
    Meh.

    Valkyrie will probably go strait to the top tier when she will be buffed. Probably will still need more effort to kill people but will frustrate everyone with her tons of options.

    Warden is pretty much universally agreed to be top tier among the good duelists; very fast lights that combo into each other or have the Crushing Counter effect, crazy fast zoning attack with great range, he's got pretty much everything you could want. Berserker is basically the opposite, being a shitty Orochi.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,221
    edited February 24
    For Honor at Final Round? like a tournament?



    well the duel mode in particular is the most innovative and refreshing and gratifying competition ever experienced in the industry overall

    image

    though the other modes are awesome too the combat shines in all kinds of modes.
    FIGHTING VIPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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