Ryu Season 2

YouScaredNoobYouScaredNoob Joined: Posts: 148
Hey guys.. thought we should use this as an archive to Ryus changes once they are confirmed..

What have you guys heard? Any specific nerfs or buffs?
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Comments

  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    edited December 2016
    Stuff I've heard so far -

    Full invincible gone on all meterless Dps
    Throws now have no follow up ( everyone)
    Potentially some slower normals ( not specific)
    Meter building potentially slower
    V-trigger normals better ( not specific)
    Dps possibly now not CC punishable
    St.jabs nerfed
    V-trigger now - on hit ( no follow up)

    Back HK possibly special cancel ( completely weird and pointless buff)

    Basically - the games getting worse but hopefully there's some buffs to other things because it sounds awful , not just Ryu, but the game as a package.
  • nevillebamshewnevillebamshew Joined: Posts: 728
    Are there no specifics known from the PSX build?
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    Are there no specifics known from the PSX build?

    I've just been going of twitter quotes. If those changes stick or not, who knows.
  • AnnihilationscapeAnnihilationscape The World Warrior Joined: Posts: 720
    *sigh* It's too much to hope we could get back to SFV-Beta, hits-like-a-MACK-truck Ryu, isn't it?

    All I'm seeing here and elsewhere is Capcom once again going back on the whole "We'll buff the weak but we won't nerf the strong!" posture. I mean, I know these changes aren't final, but damn this is depressing if these stick.
    "Your moves are weak and your style is a joke! What were you thinking?!"
    - Ken Masters
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 6,449
    edited December 2016
    Imho they will let some high tier exist and low tier exist. And create new high tier and low tier.

    But flat Ryu because "iz our focal point of game balancement etc etc"

    Thanks a lot bro

    Boredom



    ps: give me back old CC HP and CC cr HP
    KRWlQX.gif

    Post edited by Cestus on
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
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  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 214
    I have this bad feeling season 1 will end up being better than 2. Capcom is constantly changing things by adding stuff but making the game more stale than it's already been since IV. I hope cross cut Dp can still work because if it doesn't well that just really sucks, no way im burning ex DP just to reverse DP someone crossing me up
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    edited December 2016
    It'll work if they are trying to escape , but I think on those close ones and obviously grounded, you'll need meter.

    What's more concerning is his zoning, you need the invincibility frames of DP to hit deep in jump ins in a fireball situation where there's only a few frames between getting hit and doing a DP. Now it's likley you could possibly trade or lose depending various factors.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2016
    What's the point of having a Shoryuken if you're going to seriously trade or lose out completely? Their intentions are to make it so that their won't be Wake Up Reversals is Stupid, because they're basically saying that a character like Ryu who has an intentional implemented Anti-Air Special with a few start up invincibles will now have to block like everyone else when someone jumps at them? WTF?! Why in the world does a character like Ryu have be universally gimped because of they supposedly want "less" wake up reversals? Capcom is acting like this hasn't been a thing since the days of SF2 to this very day.

    The reasons more that I'm frustrated is that I'm inherently a Safe Player and so wake up DP is not something that I utilize on a daily dose of my gameplan, if very rarely ever. I use the Shoryuken as an AA to make my opponents fear jumping in on me and of course as combo finishers, but it's universal tool is to put fear factor and respect into opponents wanting to UP/Foward.

    So although they may have taken away the wake up reversals unless you're using meter. They are now indirectly opening up the skies for people to start jumping more frequently now knowing that characters with an AA special like Ryu w/o meter will now think twice about wanting to throw out Shoryuken in fear of the potential to lose out completely (for making the right decision might I add). We haven't even mentioned the zoning and AA tactics hit that this will also indirectly take on Ryu.

    I 100% hate this change, IF it continues to stay.

    To put it likely, most of the patch notes I've read so far really feel like knee jerk changes seemingly from the outcry of casual fans. At this point, S2 feels like Capcom saying "We're going to take away a lot of fun stuff and basically make all of you fight within this little phone booth that we're forcing all of you to play within."

    Seriously, I rarely type curse words...but Fuck This Change.

    Post edited by TrueSephiroth on
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • makmak!!!makmak!!! Going Bananas! Joined: Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Welp as a long time sf ryu player this might be the one that will make me quit the game in my 35 years of age and focus on being a family man. Last philippine peso I'll spend on a sf game.
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  • AlkipotAlkipot Speeches are for campaigning... now is the time for action! Joined: Posts: 1,965
    Dp anti airs will work normally as they should. Mashed through blockstring dps won't, unless you have meter. Adapt. You'll all be fine.
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  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 405
    The problem is that for Ryu, having a mash through DP is actually pretty damn critical to him not getting bum rushed since parry is pretty useless defensively. Our boy has some pretty stubby normals that are pretty easy to out footsie. We'd be playing on the back foot the entire match. This means we'd basically have to commit all V-gauge to alpha counters.

    I think the game needs some work, but almost all of these changes seem like they are changes in the wrong direction or are trying to solve problems that don't really exist.
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  • AnnihilationscapeAnnihilationscape The World Warrior Joined: Posts: 720
    Capcom does seem pretty hellbent on making fireballs a pretty mediocre option in this game. I was personally hoping that would improve in a post-SFIV, no FA game, but it seems the developers are still afraid of giving Ryu an ST-level fireball game.

    Again, I could sort of live with that if he hit hard as hell once he got up close, but that doesn't seem to be the direction they're heading, either.
    "Your moves are weak and your style is a joke! What were you thinking?!"
    - Ken Masters
  • JustinShadeJustinShade Joined: Posts: 6
    Hey guys,

    I just found this thread today! I was at Playstation Experience 2016 this past weekend and got a good amount of time with Ryu (my main character) to see what things had changed. Like others mentioned on social media, I think the monitors we were playing on had heavy latency. Everyone I spoke with in person at PSX felt the game was "laggy". My friend and I felt that Ryu's light punch was weakened, probably the hurtbox or hitbox. I could not consistently hit other players and cross under. Secondly, Ryu's jump light kick felt weakened as well. I was not able to consistently hit with it as I do normally.

    Finally, I feel the input lag was reduced even further than it was as of the end of season 1. My friend was able to easily whiff punish Ryu's Standing Heavy Punch and Standing Medium Kick, which he had never done prior to the event. My theory on this is either Ryu's normals have increased recovery frames or the input delay was improved. Hope this insight helps!
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    Thanks for the feedback mate. There has been rumours that some of his normals have been slowed. There's also rumours that the games lag has been reduced. It's all up in the air at the moment.

    Jumping lk probably did need a nerf. Although with meterless DPs gone I think jump ins will still be viable if not more so.

    Hopefully we get a few stealth buffs. I wouldn't mind cr.mk xx fireball being true and also always connecting on hit. Maybe a slight buff to his range with buttons.
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Based on what I've heard so far Ryu's V trigger will be way stronger in season 2. Apparently his normals are faster than they are now in Vtrigger but even if that's not true he has way more potential for guard crush fireballs due to invincible reversals needing meter.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • Arthuro_RayArthuro_Ray Joined: Posts: 226
    Based on what I've heard so far Ryu's V trigger will be way stronger in season 2. Apparently his normals are faster than they are now in Vtrigger but even if that's not true he has way more potential for guard crush fireballs due to invincible reversals needing meter.

    pretty sure meterless dps still gonna be fireball invincible, just like Guile flash kicks are currently.

  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Alkipot wrote: »
    Dp anti airs will work normally as they should. Mashed through blockstring dps won't, unless you have meter. Adapt. You'll all be fine.

    It's not just about me adapting, it's the fact that it's now going to promote more Jumping, which is something that has always been inherently risky in the game of SF since the days of SF2, not to mention something that is supposed to be of a bad habit.

    All in all it doesn't have enough merit to make these nerf changes on AA Inv's.
    Capcom does seem pretty hellbent on making fireballs a pretty mediocre option in this game. I was personally hoping that would improve in a post-SFIV, no FA game, but it seems the developers are still afraid of giving Ryu an ST-level fireball game.

    I couldn't agree more on this, because as it stands we don't even really have a strong zoning character at this point with a projectile besides possibly Guile. This was one of my biggest concerns going into SF:V with Ryu which proved to be the case. Sure, he turned out strong for S1, but not in the way that I've enjoyed Ryu to be. We're all basically fighting in a phone booth right now, even though his specials would indicate a character to go well beyond that.

    The nerfing on jumping short was going to happen, even I'll admit that it's too good, however slowing Ryu's normals down even more? Sigh. My big concern is that I do not want to see what happened to SF4 Ryu to transition into SF5 Ryu as well...Started out strong, then was sent into less than mediocrity.

    Imo, some of the Best Matches for Season 1 had Ryu in it because it felt the Most like an actual SF match up (Daigo vs Sako, *Daigo vs Nuckledu (Guile)*, Daigo vs Tokido).

    With Tokido who will without question transition to Gouki, we are left with basically only one Elite Ryu player left, and The Beast hasn't done that well with Wondering Warrior in SFV, taking into consideration that's before these nerfs are going to set in.

    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    edited December 2016
    So the changes are out. Ryu got hit pretty hard, possibly the hardest although I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

    Solar plexus being plus 8 on hit means it will link to axe kick and axe kick is now Vtrigger, special cancel. That's some mighty damage with or without v-trigger. Possibly better than starting with a crush counter.

    I'm thinking something like this might be possible - solar plexus - axe kick - V-trigger - cr.fierce xx HP Dp.

    Ex fireball plus 2 is quite nice, gives him Axe kick cancel EX fireballs that lead into another frame trap. Powerful in the corner.

    V-skill buff is going to even out fireball wars although Guile will still body us I think.

    Cr.mp got a little bit more range which could be handy.

    Lots of bad news in there but somethings we can work with. I think Ryu is just meant to be a high damage machine.

    EX Dp looks like it got a range adjustment so there's a possibility that losing our st.lk punish on crush counter buttons may be replaced with an EX dp.

    Disclaimer - all this is theory crafting for now. We will need to see the push backs.
  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 214
    Wow so no juggles on his Back Roundhouse then as an anti air? whatever
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    Wow so no juggles on his Back Roundhouse then as an anti air? whatever

    Probably pointless unless it linked into meterless DP. Might as well just do raw EX.
  • shinbojanshinbojan Joined: Posts: 470
    Tatsu recovery was changed? Can we still meaty in all situations except after throw?
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    shinbojan wrote: »
    Tatsu recovery was changed? Can we still meaty in all situations except after throw?

    At first glance I don't think we can, but ocean machine on the front page said he could in the hacked beta so I'm not sure. I would have thought the extra landing frames would rule out the axe kick.

    Light tatsu dash whiff st.jab should still work though.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,912
    shinbojan wrote: »
    Tatsu recovery was changed? Can we still meaty in all situations except after throw?

    At first glance I don't think we can, but ocean machine on the front page said he could in the hacked beta so I'm not sure. I would have thought the extra landing frames would rule out the axe kick.

    It definitely worked on H tatsu. I could even do a meaty st. HK after that and CC jabs on wake-up.
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  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2016
    I literally read nothing but nerfs...nerfs mainly. Why add 1 extra frame on lp Hadouken? In a SF game where the projectile game is easily the worse besides SF3 where it was Gutter-Tier level. Remember that from HF to ST, their was a 1 frame addition to the fireball and that made a significant difference on how ST. Ryu could utilize his fireball game vs his CE/HF counterpart who had a superior fireball game due to having one less frame.

    Yes, I see the 1 less frame for hp. Hadouken, but that's not relevant to me since lp Hadouken will be used more than anything else. I'm LoLing at being able to throw during FP Shoryuken at 1-3F...honestly, wow. Get ready to adjust your Shoryuken AA timing, because we can't use it at the last moments anymore because of potential trade, or losing, that's a fact unless you're using Ex of course. 100% not a fan of the DP nerfs, which is still stupid. If people seriously don't believe this is a significant change across the board...keep your eyes on Season 2.

    The j. mk hitbox nerf was unnecessary if Ryu was already going to receive the j.lp nerf. Overhead being way more punishable on block...

    Solar Plexus being +8 on hit instead of +6 originally is most likely the reasons why we're seeing the combo setups that been posted about Ryu.

    Parry having a longer whiff punish to me makes no sense since 29 frames was enough, but they pushed it to 32 frames now, which is big. It gives more meter now, so I guess that's the trade off? However I'd rather have the S1 parry if that was the case imo.

    Air Tatsu allowing juggles into Shinkuu is supposedly a buff, but considering that you can't even cross up with it in V, I'm curious as to it's effectiveness. So unless I see some Top-Tier uses for this, I'm not excited about this. To me, it almost feels like the supposed buff they made with Ryu in SFIV pertaining to the j.mp to allows more "juggles" which were completely irrelevant in the actual competitive play. So once again, people are going to have to prove that it's a good buff with reliable uses or it's just going into the useless bin for me.

    Ex Hadouken getting buffed on block is nice.

    Shinkuu less pushback on block so that it's more susceptible to punish.

    If I have to talk theory fighting right now without even having the chance to test it, Ryu looks like he got nothing but nerfs, with some slight buffs in certain aspects although some imo seemed pointless.

    Honestly, until I get some free time to actually test these changes than I don't want to jump the gun.




    Post edited by TrueSephiroth on
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • Arthuro_RayArthuro_Ray Joined: Posts: 226
    edited December 2016
    Ryu will be fine IMO


    He is worse, but his frametraps and neutral are better now, st.jab will be useful to stop fake pressure, and most of his bad MU got nerfed harder than him besides Guile, i can see Nash and Chun li being less stressful now


    Even things like crosscut DPs are still great, from my experience, i menaged to land 90% without any trade while doing some lobbys with Akuma, they improved the hitbox on DPs while nerfed all crossups.
  • AnnihilationscapeAnnihilationscape The World Warrior Joined: Posts: 720
    Running through the changelog last night, I saw a ton of other characters also had the frame data on a number of their normals increased by 1F, which, in addition to *general* damage reductions, I'm actually wondering if Ryu might not come out so bad off after all.

    Exception being the SRK nerfs, which is still a very inelegant way for Capcom to have dealt with a "problem" most players don't actually seem to view as a problem.
    "Your moves are weak and your style is a joke! What were you thinking?!"
    - Ken Masters
  • streetleystreetley Joined: Posts: 17
    Alkipot wrote: »
    Dp anti airs will work normally as they should. Mashed through blockstring dps won't, unless you have meter. Adapt. You'll all be fine.

    talking without any kind of knowledge; that's not the case. dp's fucked up.

  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,912
    M DP is still invincible on frame 3. It will still work against frame traps with a gap of 3 or more.
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  • streetleystreetley Joined: Posts: 17
    If someone sweep you and then jump you will have to block or they will CH you cause no invincibility in frames 1~2, if standing you now have to time your dp to hit your opponent between frame 3~6 and it will depend on the button your opponent press cause some attacks hit lower than others, you will have to block all meaty attacks, all with damage nerf in VT, hp dp with 20 dmg nerf in normal, 30 dmg nerf in VT, -50 stun in both; like I said dp's are fucked up unless you want to expend your bars in ex.
  • LurkBrianLurkBrian Joined: Posts: 54
    streetley wrote: »
    if standing you now have to time your dp to hit your opponent between frame 3~6 and it will depend on the button your opponent press cause some attacks hit lower than others

    This is a lot easier than you're making it sound. You already do this, you don't even realize it.
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 6,449
    Don't know if was reported but now with Ryu you can do

    stHP -> V-Trigger
    and
    stMP-> stHP -> V-Trigger

    before in both cases it gave me the third hit (stHK) of the target combo and only at that point i could V-trigger cancel

    b+HK -> SRK
    feel good

    SPS ->b+HK feel kinda awkward

    stHP (VT only) special cancellable feel so awesome, i wish it was in normal version too :(
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
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  • Arthuro_RayArthuro_Ray Joined: Posts: 226
    edited December 2016
    b+hk and st.hp canceled into haduken are true blockstrings


    shame, i want to catch people pressing buttons.


    The cancel window in st.hp is huge, tho.
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,831
    I still don't really see the point in nerfing DPs, you already lose half your life if you get one blocked in most cases anyway. It's not like they had an FADC safety net or anything so they were already risky as hell to throw out but now there's much less reason to do so anyway. I dunno.
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  • LurkBrianLurkBrian Joined: Posts: 54
    Really disappointed that b.HK xx EX Shoryu doesn't really work as an anti-air. If you use b.HK as an anti-air, they bounce too high to get scooped by the first hit, so it they only eat the second hit and it does like ~120 damage for 1 bar of meter and no oki. There's also b.HK xx EX fireball, which is better, but the only good thing about is the oki, and you'd still do more damage just doing a straight EX DP, and also I feel like it's easy to drop.

    I do feel like grey damage buff is really good for zoning. It's very easy to build grey health on them and then just keep them from healing with fireballs, or hide behind fireballs to heal your own while, or both.
  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,194
    st lk range nerf really hurts. st hk st lk DP/tatsu feels nonexistant as ranges you would use st hk as a non meaty/neutral is basically a huge portion of the range where it won't connect.

    Icing on the cake after losing a good chunk of punishes w/ st lk.

    Throws feel like complete ass now. Literally one button strings to even threaten throw, no real followups.

    everything else is meh. EX FB is a nice change but the meter requirements makes me wonder how much mileage we will actually see when combined with reduced meter gain.
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,807
    edited December 2016
    I've been playing around with him for just a little bit. A lot of minor nerfs but I don't really feel them right now. I can see it though like st. LP, st. MP, st. LK block string no longer working. The DP and throw nerfs are universal but I'm not sure I believe Ryu is that capable without having a invincible DP. Characters like him have always been balanced around those tools. Now that he lacks that and his regular fireballs have actually gotten a bit worse I fear that he'll drop further than we think he will.

    As for his buffs, man I was excited about the axe kick into EX Shoryu. But it's practically useless where you would want to use it. LurkBrian already summarized my thoughts. The EX fireball buff might be arguably his best buff. It basically just gives us Ken style corner frame traps that could lead to big damage(with 2 bars) if hit confirmed though. The better frame advantage after st. MP and solar plexus doesn't mean anything. So you get a new combo that does a tiny bit more damage and doesn't open up any new possibilities, woohoo I guess.

    But a couple of those buffs can be useful in a gimmicky way. With axe kick being cancelable now you can whiff it and buffer DP or EX tatsu like a moron. DP will only whiff at max range, other wise it hits at ranges that you wouldn't think it would. All tatsu's will always hit, but they have to be standing of course. Air tatsu > Super can be pretty useful if you have a character cornered that relies on standing anti air moves. Ryu can use his air LK tatsu to delay himself enough to make the anti air whiff and hit opponents during recovery or hit them just because they didn't expect it. Nothing reliable or super useful, but it's something he can do in those situations.
  • makmak!!!makmak!!! Going Bananas! Joined: Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Welp. It's like sf4 nerfs all over again. What a waste of money. Capcom really loves to spoon feed scrubs instead of making them learn.

    It has to start somewhere
    It has to start sometime
    What better place than here
    What better time than now.....
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,906
    edited December 2016
    I said a couple months back in the general thread before any of these changes if you want to nerf Ryu out the game - make his st.lk shorter. I didn't actually think they'd follow through with that though.

    The game mechanics don't make sense, they don't gel well. For example they want you to rack up grey life since it recovers slower - then somehow take that grey life away right? In order to do that you make overheads faster and you make throws a little better - you introduce a threat close up that in turn makes opponents push buttons which in turn opens up frame trap possibilities. It's a fairly simple concept. Get the opponent into a position where they have to do something.

    ..... They went and made overheads unusable ( at -6 that's a full combo for a 60 damage trade) and the resulting throw now kills the momentum. They are not really designing a deep fighting game here, it's a paint by numbers. Make everyone's base rules the same.

    There are glaring errors in everything though. How do you take a mix up machine with good normals like Urien and buff the living shit out of his buttons, while giving a footsie character like Ryu (with no mix up options) less options in neutral? Answers on a postcard.

    I stopped trying to make sense of this game though because nothing really works together. It's a new generation of design here, SF5 is it's own thing.
  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 214
    It may be a bit too early to tell but man im really not seeing how the buffs ryu got over compensate the nerfs. The st Lk range nerf is huge, i don't know why the fuck capcom messed with that but now im not so sure if we can punish those CC moves that were -4 on block and it's harder to even use in neutral now. Ex fireball is nice but i feel it's a bit commitment to use it if you're trying to get CA. His Axe kick buff is great but on block you'll just get v reversal'ed and in neutral its prone to being whiff punished guess capcom just wants us to hit people with axekick and solar plexus and some more fireballs
  • FlamencoOleFlamencoOle Joined: Posts: 6
    Ryu will be fine IMO


    He is worse, but his frametraps and neutral are better now, st.jab will be useful to stop fake pressure, and most of his bad MU got nerfed harder than him besides Guile, i can see Nash and Chun li being less stressful now.

    Cammy, Balrog, and rashid are all a tough MU for ryu, and these MUs all got worse
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