Ryu Season 2

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  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,547
    edited April 6
    What would you say is our best button in SF5?

    I think it's the standing heavy punch. It's replaced the traditional sweep for the best poke - it's safe, hits even low like sweep, plus it crush counters.

    I think we can advance as Ryu players by focusing on using this move more, like st.lk to st.hp, in place of the traditional cr.mk to fireball.

    Try it out. I spam it all the time (just like cr.mk or cr.hk is earlier games!), and it works wonders - you just have to "aim it" at where the opponent might push buttons - even if they don't you're perfectly safe plus you netted some gray damage.

    I'd say it's a pretty top-tier normal, actually :lol: Maybe that will change the next time around everything including st.hp fails me, but right now I'm feelin' the power of that punch.

    Of course it won't work so well in footsies, where Karin has her st.hk and Laura has her st.hk, etc, but that's just the same problem we had in earlier games where even Ryu's sweep was oftentimes outranged - it's no different here. Go for it. It can still hit even Karin's and Laura's st.hk hitboxes with the correct timing.

    I think our "footsie game" has changed from just sweeps & cr.mk combo to fireball, to primarily st.lk, st.mk, st.mp, st.hp and b.hk.
    Post edited by NG1313 on
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  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 6
    If I had to go with grounded​ normals I'd rank them as follows.

    1) S.MP -> combos itself, can combo sweep on CH, great meaty option, slight advantage on block, and decent range. Good speed as well.

    2) Cr.MP -> Great range, +2 on block, combo itself in certain situations and can be meaty combo itself, decent defensive poke.

    3) B+HK -> Excellent AA and can give you oki, good at stuffing some things, probably strongest meaty option still, can fight off a lot of moves

    4) S.LK -> If they buff it, will probably be core punish tool and checking certain ranges. Not much you can get safely off of it, but not bad poke.

    5) Lights? -> All of them are okay. S.LP has really crap range though.

    6) S.HP, cr.MK, or S.MK -> Not sure which is better. On CH, HP is okay IF you can get target combo to add the damage. Otherwise, MK has better range and feels safer if spaced properly.

    7) S.HK -> Without a doubt his worst grounded normal. Whiffs crouching, CC only gets you good punish of close. Give up turn on block

    Granted, I'm a shit tier player so it's possible that I'm completely wrong. Not really sure where to place sweep. It's fine for what it is, but unless your opponent doesn't protect their legs, it should be used very sparingly IMO. Cr.HP is pretty much just combos and AA, I can't imagine using for anything or than the most specific of OS's maybe based on match-up?
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,547
    I think st.hp has longer range than st.mp and I suspect its hurtbox and hitbox are better too.
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  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    edited April 6
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Sincere question to everyone who is not enjoying SFV. Would consider switching to let's say KOF or maybe GGear if you're looking for a 2D FG?

    What irks me is that when people get up in arms about a game, calling it bad, but then continue to play it and and give time/money to Capcom instead of voting with what counts.

    Just my opinion, but unless people are actually willing to walk away and say, "Make this game better or I won't continue to support it," I feel like it's an inability to not put your money where your mouth is. If no one is willing to actually change their habits, then I guess there is no reason to believe Capcom will actually change the game towards something more geared towards what Ryu players would like.

    My PS4 has deleted the game without my permission twice! Even my console doesn't like it!

    To be honest, I want to like the game. I really do. I've always liked Ryu and he looks bad ass in this game. Too bad he doesn't play that way. I don't know. As time goes by I just see game flaws piling up. And the S2 balance was the icing on the cake. That's not how you should work out balancing adjustments, just flipping the tier list and calling it a day.

    So, to answer your question: yes. I haven't actually played fighting games in a while, actually. I only occasionaly boot SFV just to grab some easy FM in case something worth buying comes up. Too bad, since I just bought a beautiful Hori VLX red last December.

    So, for now, I'm waiting for Rev 2 and Tekken 7. Meanwhile, I have Dark Souls and The Witcher to spend a couple of hours. Maybe I'll try playing those with my VLX and see what happens.
    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    NG1313 wrote: »
    I think st.hp has longer range than st.mp and I suspect its hurtbox and hitbox are better too.

    I agree that S.HP has better range than S.MP, but my post was comparing S.HP to S.MK :)
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    st.lk in S2.1 will be the best button. Personally I think sweep is underrated and I use it quite a bit from just outside the hitting range to catch movements and buttons.

    I don't think Ryu has a go to option really. St.fierce is a good button and much better than f.HK (button is basically void now due to the st.lk nerf) at the minute although that will change a little when we get st.lk back. I'm interested to see if crouch fierce change will make some slight differences, I doubt it though.
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Yes I guess st.lk might be the best button. SFV is amazing in this regard in that if we want a high priority move we can go for st.hp, if for a faster poke that allows a follow-up and necessarily a direct combo, then st.lk, and for a middle ground the st.mk is good.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 5,474
    edited April 7
    NG1313 wrote: »
    What would you say is our best button in SF5?

    sHP is my fav too, but i still dream they patch it special cancellable outside VT

    both single and sMP->sHP versions

    Will add variety and fun to him

    Maybe a different CC too
    Post edited by Cestus on
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
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  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,547
    edited April 8
    I like to just confirm the crush counter into st.hk :) It's a great, very "karate-like" feeling.
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  • Rockman85Rockman85 Joined: Posts: 393
    I really hate this version of Ryu. His stubby normals and lack of damage makes him feel like DAN!
    PC AE ID: opticknads
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 5,474
    They ever gave an official explanation on the cr.HP -animation only- change?

    I've my little theory, that was just to make it visually being readable/stand out more if used after a SPS or before a SRK

    SPS>crHP
    crHP>SRK

    Currently for all these Ryu use the same arm (being 1P side, the right one), with similar (specially in second case) movement

    As now SPS>crHP>SRK is right-right-right, after patch it will be right-left-right arm

    As stupid it sound is the most logic reason i've found to change the animation alone... i think if there was some actual gameplay change/buff we will know by now

    Will be nice if end april give us some last minute surprise though
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
    "@Cestus tightened her ass up" - YagamiFire
  • vandutchvandutch Grand Master Lurker Joined: Posts: 41
    Rockman85 wrote: »
    I really hate this version of Ryu. His stubby normals and lack of damage makes him feel like DAN!

    Capcom wants Ryu to have a 4-6 match with the entire cast so the other bottom tier's have at least a favourable match vs the most picked character
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  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    edited April 18
    Rockman85 wrote: »
    I really hate this version of Ryu. His stubby normals and lack of damage makes him feel like DAN!

    Pretty much. I'll take it if he had a Super Taunt.
    Post edited by Kolbe on
    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    edited April 19
    Rockman85 wrote: »
    I really hate this version of Ryu. His stubby normals and lack of damage makes him feel like DAN!

    You're closer than you think with this. If you compare SF4 Dan to SF5 Ryu, the frame data is almost the same. I compared them a few months back, wasn't all that surprised.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Dan was the man

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

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  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 209
    Now if Ryu could get dan's pressure it might be smooth sailing maybe eh i have no idea how good dan's pressure was in IV with his knee moves
  • YouScaredNoobYouScaredNoob Joined: Posts: 148
    Ryu is pretty much good at doing nothing. His st.mp pressure gets blown up by anyone with a 3f normal, fireball is ass, damage and stun nerfed and VT is shit. Idk wtf Capcom was thinking Ryu was gonna be able to do after the balance patch..
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 19
    I just don't understand what they were thinking when they nerfed him as bad as they did. Now we have Balrog lol.

    Ryu is going to be slightly better after the patch but still bad imo. Ryu can't play SFV.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 19
    Sad thing is a lot of minor tweaks to Ryu and he'd probably be balanced, fun, and a much more interesting character if you don't want a hardcore zoner and someone who works in the system. I'm even fine with the current crap DPs.

    1) Let him get pressure again off forward throws. As of now, getting a s.MK that only touches if they throw out a button is just giving up your turn. Opponent just wakes up, and rushes in off your whiff...yay. Without throw pressure, he is really lacking in offensive tools.

    2) Increase advantage of s.MP advantage on block from +1 to +2 to it's frame tight against everyone, and possible increase frame advantage on hit from +7 to +8. This way, he can at least consistently build up opponent's grey life on block and increases his pressure ability. Having your offense respected goes A LONG WAY in making you a better character.

    3) Increase the range of his sweep so he can at least consistently punish everyone elses' sweep when he blocks it. Ryu can't make his sweep safe with spacing yet a decent chunk of cast can be safe against him, sometimes with just normal block strings, which is annoying and seems to break the design paradigm.

    4) Just make his hit boxes match his animations for s.LK, cr.MK which would give them increased range and not break them.

    5) V-trigger needs to change. Juiced up fireballs while nice, don't really help when you can throw like 3 max? If it were me, I'd make a it a 3-stock v-trigger but make it give you at least a fixed amount of juiced up FB's instead of being time based. This let's him at least compete with Guile who will dominate the zoning battle initially and makes the match more dynamic since the role of zoner switches throughout the match. I'd be fine with it expiring if you throw CA, as I think that's balanced and flavorful as well.

    6) V-skill Parry just doesn't really work in practice. Risk/Reward is really poor as of now in a game where you need to minimize your risks. The only real times I've seen them used to any great effect is to punish moves that are safe or advantageous that come from like a mile away (Cammy v-skill, Nash Flip Kick, etc.), and you can just as easily punish those with simpler tools like neutral jump. If it were me, I'd expand V-Skill to be the following:

    MP+MK: Current Parry for the specific situations that it does work.
    F+MP+MK : Parry that only works on physical attacks and does no damage (maybe a little grey life) but knocks opponent down and drags them in front of you, so you can get oki going. I'd make the recovery really bad on it though so it was easily whiff punishable and should be counter state hit against you.
    B+MP+MK: Maybe state buff (like Alex) that allows him to throw a red fireball to match Guile.

    Obviously, balance testing needed and I'm not sure I'd do ALL of these together.
    Post edited by BeastEG on
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Increased range on c mk would probably help a lot.

    Also ex dp still consistently whiffs the 2nd hit. A good example is using wakeup ex dp against Bison's DF HP from far away.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    If you left the season 2 changes but buffed up his V trigger he would be decent. That's the real problem overall with the game. He has one of the least threatening triggers in the game. Random Crush counter sweep into charged scaled fireball..who cares.
  • YouScaredNoobYouScaredNoob Joined: Posts: 148
    Amara wrote: »
    Daigo agrees with me.. nerfs are too much.. Ryu got rekt.

    Daigo thinking of choosing Urien or Guile as his main.

    Daigo is defensive and uses cr.MP as an antiair. I can see how he might think the nerfs are too much.

    Is that also why you think the nerfs are too much? Who are you thinking of choosing as your new main?

    The reason why I dropped Ryu isn't for his lack of defensive options.. it's because he can't punish anything anymore, can't compete with Balrog, Karin, Cammy etc, he has no zoning game and is just ass. I was getting rekt by every Balrog I vsed and I got sick of it and I picked up Laura(my original main) again and found out shes pretty fun and stuck to her. I think I'll be a Laura main but I love Ryu.. hes so fun and they nerfed him so badly..

    Once he gets buffed again I'll train my Ryu again bro..

  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    edited April 20
    If you left the season 2 changes but buffed up his V trigger he would be decent. That's the real problem overall with the game. He has one of the least threatening triggers in the game. Random Crush counter sweep into charged scaled fireball..who cares.

    I agree. His V-Trigger looked like it could actually give him an edge on the early trailers, but it's just laughable how quickly it drains compared to other triggers. Also, why is it all depleted with a Denjin Hadouken? It's not like you cand do that much damage after a guard break anyway.

    In other things, have you guys seen this Sasaki guy? I didn't know him, but he seems to be holding his ground with Ryu pretty decently:

    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • shinbojanshinbojan Joined: Posts: 437
    edited April 20
    He was the best Cody player in SF4 (Momochi was the best overall, but Sasaki had more tech).
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 20
    Kolbe wrote: »
    In other things, have you guys seen this Sasaki guy? I didn't know him, but he seems to be holding his ground with Ryu pretty decently

    A really good player from what I'm seeing. If anything, I'm jealous of the ability to convert a random s.MP into c.HPxxDP.

    Must be nice to play against people who just don't dash forward / jump forward like maniacs all the time. I know how to deal with that stuff in 3D FGs...but fucking hell...this shit is miserable to figure out in 2D FGs.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 20
    Kolbe wrote: »
    In other things, have you guys seen this Sasaki guy? I didn't know him, but he seems to be holding his ground with Ryu pretty decently:

    Quick Q: That shimmy at 7:23 he did (looks like f.dash -> b.dash -> cr.MKxxTatsu. Was the cr.MK into Tatsu an actually hit confirm where he saw contact and cancelled? If so, I'm quitting right now because I do not have the ability to do that nor will I ever most likely lol.

    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    edited April 20
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Kolbe wrote: »
    In other things, have you guys seen this Sasaki guy? I didn't know him, but he seems to be holding his ground with Ryu pretty decently:

    Quick Q: That shimmy at 7:23 he did (looks like f.dash -> b.dash -> cr.MKxxTatsu. Was the cr.MK into Tatsu an actually hit confirm where he saw contact and cancelled? If so, I'm quitting right now because I do not have the ability to do that nor will I ever most likely lol.

    I think it's a confirm.

    I'm much more impressed with his corrected DPs on cross-ups. That is very hard for me to do.
    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    Kolbe wrote: »
    I think it's a confirm.

    Whelp...I don't see the point in trying then :(

    Yeah, those DPs were pretty tight.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Kolbe wrote: »
    I think it's a confirm.

    Whelp...I don't see the point in trying then :(

    Yeah, those DPs were pretty tight.

    You can do it! Just practice!
    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    Sad thing is I do practice my confirms...I'm no better today than I was when I first started practicing when SFV first came out. That said, words of encouragement are always welcome! :)
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • KolbeKolbe Joined: Posts: 133
    edited April 20
    Look, this IS a sick confirm, in my opinion:

    (It's at 9:48, not 9:08, but the link is not working properly)

    PSN: KolbeSgf

    T7: Feng, Jin, maybe someone else
    GG Rev2: Ky
    SFV: Ryu
  • steveyseesteveysee Joined: Posts: 16
    edited April 21
    Kolbe wrote: »
    Look, this IS a sick confirm, in my opinion:

    (It's at 9:48, not 9:08, but the link is not working properly)

    s.lk xx ex tatsu is a buffer not a confirm. In season 1 this was one of his main tools in midrange but since it was shortened in S2 its very much less useful :( We should have it back in the next balance patch.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    edited April 21
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Kolbe wrote: »
    In other things, have you guys seen this Sasaki guy? I didn't know him, but he seems to be holding his ground with Ryu pretty decently:

    Quick Q: That shimmy at 7:23 he did (looks like f.dash -> b.dash -> cr.MKxxTatsu. Was the cr.MK into Tatsu an actually hit confirm where he saw contact and cancelled? If so, I'm quitting right now because I do not have the ability to do that nor will I ever most likely lol.

    Honest it's not as difficult as you think if you buffer the move. Try it with EX fireball to begin with if you have meter since it's safe regardless if they block or get hit. Also you can use the easier - fwd dash/backdash - st.fierce xx HK, especially in the corner, I use that a lot, again the st.hp is safe and you can confirm the target if you press it slightly late. If you think you can't hit the second part of the target, just use st.fierce since again - safe but a CC if you hit.

    Not everybody has great execution but there are some adjustments you can make. The st.lk xx EX tatsu that steveysee mentioned is very easy since it never comes out unless you hit them ( if you space is properly).
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    True, I guess I'm so used to not buffering motions that it feels like a hell of a lot of commitment.

    That said, if you think about it, a cr.MK is like 20 frames from start to finish so buffering a Tatsu is basically making time you don't control your character more meaningful.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,763
    If you left the season 2 changes but buffed up his V trigger he would be decent. That's the real problem overall with the game. He has one of the least threatening triggers in the game. Random Crush counter sweep into charged scaled fireball..who cares.

    I really do wish his V Trigger was more useful. With all the nerfs he's suffered the least they could do is buff his V Trigger to be more rewarding when you do land the full charged denjin. I'd like to see the scaling of the follow up changed from 60% to 80% after a blocked denjin and for the stun to be increased 300 to 400 after landing one. Basically if you get put in a unblockable set up you have to choose between taking a little more damage vs taking a little more stun.

    And though it's gimmicky, at least it would make going for fully charged denjins without a set up more worth it. To me charging this thing up in front of a blocking opponent is like a going for a level 3 focus in SF4. Landing a fully charged focus was very rewarding, a fully charged denjing(hit or blocked) isn't despite the fact that you're putting yourself at the same risk of getting blown up by a neutral of forward jump.
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 23
    Rice_Eater wrote: »
    If you left the season 2 changes but buffed up his V trigger he would be decent. That's the real problem overall with the game. He has one of the least threatening triggers in the game. Random Crush counter sweep into charged scaled fireball..who cares.

    I really do wish his V Trigger was more useful. With all the nerfs he's suffered the least they could do is buff his V Trigger to be more rewarding when you do land the full charged denjin. I'd like to see the scaling of the follow up changed from 60% to 80% after a blocked denjin and for the stun to be increased 300 to 400 after landing one. Basically if you get put in a unblockable set up you have to choose between taking a little more damage vs taking a little more stun.

    And though it's gimmicky, at least it would make going for fully charged denjins without a set up more worth it. To me charging this thing up in front of a blocking opponent is like a going for a level 3 focus in SF4. Landing a fully charged focus was very rewarding, a fully charged denjing(hit or blocked) isn't despite the fact that you're putting yourself at the same risk of getting blown up by a neutral of forward jump.

    B RH xx (first hit) ex charged fireball is a pretty solid setup imo. The frame advantage is pretty massive so you get a good charge before they can press anything. It gives less time for them to react if they don't commit to a reversal poke. Still in order to use this you have to be right on top of them. It's really hard to get that positioning with the way everyone disrespects ryu.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    OtaniRyu is another strong Japanese Ryu and Bonchan has started playing Ryu online again

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 23
    OtaniRyu is another strong Japanese Ryu and Bonchan has started playing Ryu online again

    I'm curious to see what happens with the balance patch. I may give him another whirl but I'm not too keen on it.

    If anything, I'd do a backflip if they just got rid of 6-7 frames of input lag.
    Post edited by BeastEG on
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 23
    BeastEG wrote: »
    OtaniRyu is another strong Japanese Ryu and Bonchan has started playing Ryu online again

    I'm curious to see what happens with the balance patch. I may give him another whirl but I'm not too keen on it.

    If anything, I'd do a backflip if they just got rid of 6-7 frames of input lag.

    KOF has 6.4 frames of lag too so it's all good.


    Ryu is worth it if you're like really skilled and can keep the character working, but otherwise you can play Akuma or Guile and get better results with a mid range character for less work. Characters that also have better overall offense.


    Ryu having 1,000 health will probably be his only pro over those 2 characters. At least he'll function more properly in 2.1. Ryu is meant to be more aggressive in this game any ways so might as well play the shoto that can fireball zone while having better offense and arguably better AA (Akuma's b+HP AA is ridiculous). Or play Guile who's also better at those things.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 24
    snip

    Honestly at this point, the input lag makes 2D FGs tougher for me than anything else right now. Why they need that level of input lag is well beyond me. My assumption is to make the lag online not be as jarring, but FFS, it makes reactions oriented play near impossible (and my reactions aren't even that good, it just makes it impossible to react to anything.) Yeah, I tried out KOF XIV and noticed the same input lag, which was really disappointing.

    If I had the FM, I'd consider Guile or Akuma, but the reality is that when you're as low skill as I am, the character shouldn't matter that much. Better to learn the game and beat people with fundamentally solid play. I'm pretty much a firm believer that "tiers" only really matter when you're talking top tier players like yourself who can even think about making it out of EVO pools. I'm also a firm believer that I shouldn't have to buy a character to enjoy the game, that's just F'd up. If I did that with Doomtown as the lead designer, I'd get my head lopped off.

    Yeah, I've noticed more success just not even using Ryu's specials except for AAs and combos, and just literally brawling as opposed to doing anything like "footsies" or zoning. Ironically, treating SFV like a 3D FG has made it much more fun for me. Go forward, play annoyingly safe with lights and mids, never move backwards. "Forget everything you know about 2D FGs and just treat it like a 3D FG" seems to be best advice I was given about SFV...which is sad because I was considering switching to DOA after the VF scene died. Perhaps I'm just not seeing it, but while I was shit at SFIV, at least I could see why I lost on things and understand them in the framework of a 2D FG.

    At this point, I'm about to just load up DOA2:Hardcore on the PS2 and just do survival mode forever lol.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 493
    edited April 24
    "Collarbone Breaker (Normal/V-Trigger):
    • Changed startup from 20F to 22F "


    Capcom: "Just too fast. Even with my LensCrafters!"

    "V-Skill Mind's Eye:
    • Changed animation recovery on whiff from 29F to 32F "


    Capcom: "Everyone is parrying successfully. Handing their mother's the controller to mock us also."

    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 24
    BeastEG wrote: »
    snip

    Honestly at this point, the input lag makes 2D FGs tougher for me than anything else right now. Why they need that level of input lag is well beyond me. My assumption is to make the lag online not be as jarring, but FFS, it makes reactions oriented play near impossible (and my reactions aren't even that good, it just makes it impossible to react to anything.) Yeah, I tried out KOF XIV and noticed the same input lag, which was really disappointing.

    If I had the FM, I'd consider Guile or Akuma, but the reality is that when you're as low skill as I am, the character shouldn't matter that much. Better to learn the game and beat people with fundamentally solid play. I'm pretty much a firm believer that "tiers" only really matter when you're talking top tier players like yourself who can even think about making it out of EVO pools. I'm also a firm believer that I shouldn't have to buy a character to enjoy the game, that's just F'd up. If I did that with Doomtown as the lead designer, I'd get my head lopped off.

    Yeah, I've noticed more success just not even using Ryu's specials except for AAs and combos, and just literally brawling as opposed to doing anything like "footsies" or zoning. Ironically, treating SFV like a 3D FG has made it much more fun for me. Go forward, play annoyingly safe with lights and mids, never move backwards. "Forget everything you know about 2D FGs and just treat it like a 3D FG" seems to be best advice I was given about SFV...which is sad because I was considering switching to DOA after the VF scene died. Perhaps I'm just not seeing it, but while I was shit at SFIV, at least I could see why I lost on things and understand them in the framework of a 2D FG.

    At this point, I'm about to just load up DOA2:Hardcore on the PS2 and just do survival mode forever lol.


    Yeah it's just if you save up some money you can play Guile or Akuma who do play better at the farther range than him with more options. There's no point in sticking with Ryu if your style demands playing "2d fighter neutral". Guile pretty much gives that to you within SFV so still playing Ryu when Guile easily fits your style more is just beating your head against a wall. I don't see what you could specifically like so much about Ryu that you have to play him over a character that does what you want to do better. His bandana is nice, but stop beating yourself up and just play Guile.


    Even if you don't have the FM just spend the cash. 6 bucks isn't that much if you're already only playing one character that is weaker at what you want to do than Guile. Single cash purchase is perfect for people who only play one or 2 characters any way.


    It's not even about making the game more fun, pick a character that fits what you want to do better. SFV Ryu is a different Ryu and there's no point trying shoehorn SF2/IV Ryu into V Ryu. It's a different Ryu .

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 24
    snip

    Main thing I was told was that if you really want to learn SF properly, learning Ryu is the best way to do that. Once you have Ryu down, you can pick any character and learn them. The key (I was told) is that learning a "honest" character first was the most important thing in SF because you'll have a much better understanding of the game. I've been trying to stick steadfast to that advice...although I'm starting to wonder if that's necessarily true anymore or even good advice for anyone. I figured once you start getting to the higher ranks with a character, then it would make sense to switch, but I guess at this point, why not try something new.

    I actually wish I could learn characters easily as I love variety, but I always find learning new characters the hardest thing on Earth for me. Usually the commands just all get mixed up (as well as my reactions). It's a miracle I was even capable of learning 3 character for marvel.

    That said, thanks for advice. I'll give Akuma and Guile a try and see what's up.
    Post edited by BeastEG on
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    edited April 26
    Ryu is a terrible character to recommend to a new player, he used to be in SF4, but not this game. If it was my friend I'd recommend Cammy since she has easy mode buttons, AA and the same type of combo's with medium medium links, she's basically Ryu without a fireball and her game plan is linear.

    Saying that everyone new should just pick Balrog, you get insta top tier for little effort. Charge up dem taps and let the rip to your hearts content. Press CC and AA with one button.
  • igogorekigogorek Joined: Posts: 101
    edited April 26
    I agree that Cammy is a great pick for new player, because of b.MP mostly.
    But for myself i would recommend Necally. He is good overall, he has all the tools: pressure, good confirms, CC, oki, zoning, antizoning, command grab, mobility (in VT). And he has all types of inputs except spd, charge moves included. He is maybe harder to start with than Cammy, but not much. And learning him will teach you much more fundamentals and inputs.
    I actually wanted to start with Necally, but got annoyed by how he speaks and didn't like his tentacle hair. If he had werewolf costume when i got to SFV i would be playing him i think.
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    My guess is that they were probably under the assumption SFV Ryu was going to be similar enough to previous iterations that he'd teach fundamentals. Good intentions but misguided.

    After playing him for this long...I'm not sure I've learned anything in relation to SFV other than having a V-trigger that's an Ultra like Balrog is Top Tier.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 209
    I concur. Ryu may have been beginner friendlier in sf IV but in this version of SF he isn't for beginner players at all in my opinion
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,123
    BeastEG wrote: »
    My guess is that they were probably under the assumption SFV Ryu was going to be similar enough to previous iterations that he'd teach fundamentals. Good intentions but misguided.

    After playing him for this long...I'm not sure I've learned anything in relation to SFV other than having a V-trigger that's an Ultra like Balrog is Top Tier.

    Fundemtals are now less important than they ever were. If you go through the classic sonic hurricane footsie guide, you can't actually apply a lot of the techniques to SF5 because of the game lag ( unresponsive) and the poor normals (longer start ups and less active frames). Like the classic walking in and out of your opponents range to bait attacks and whiff punish isn't really present anymore, a whiff punish in SF5 is usually because you just stood there and waited for it.

    I'd say it probably goes more like this now - Reactions - Frame data knowledge - Reads - fundamentals.
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 392
    edited April 27
    Fundemtals are now less important than they ever were. If you go through the classic sonic hurricane footsie guide, you can't actually apply a lot of the techniques to SF5 because of the game lag ( unresponsive) and the poor normals (longer start ups and less active frames). Like the classic walking in and out of your opponents range to bait attacks and whiff punish isn't really present anymore, a whiff punish in SF5 is usually because you just stood there and waited for it.

    I'd say it probably goes more like this now - Reactions - Frame data knowledge - Reads - fundamentals.

    I can get behind that prioritization of "skills." Does explain a good chunk of the tier list. The characters that don't care about your reactions are usually the ones that can either force you to guess or do so much damage that all it takes is 1 or 2 bad reactions for it to be a K.O. Those are right now the characters that are on top IMO as well.

    Yeah, it's why treating the game like a 3D FG has made SFV much more enjoyable for me...since that's usually how 3D games works in terms of "git gud."
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
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