The death of fighting games… A personal journey that hopefully can help MvC:I ???

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  • ChingachgookChingachgook Joined: Posts: 29
    edited December 2016
    Pertho wrote: »
    You know how we know you're retarded and dont care about fighting games?

    You think that capcom made the game more accessible to people through simple mode as opposed to all the other shitty mechanics the game put in so life would be more fun at the lower levels.

    Thays how we know there's nothing devs can really do to get you to play with us.

    I want us to have a deeper more meaningful conversation than just skating on the surface.

    As you say Capcom did make the game more accessible with simple mode. I saw this work myself when I hosted my sons birthday party with ten other 9 year olds. Simple mode allowed them all to enjoy the game a bit more, they had access to moves they enjoyed. The can improve simple mode even further.

    However we all, me included, don't want them to water down the game play for hardcore players. The way to protect hardcore players is to make simple-mode more robust with macos for casual players. This could lesson the need to adjust the hardcore gameplay mechanics we want to protect so much.

    I'll always continue to play fighters. I even stopped playing that FPS today to play some Marvel. However I'm not blind to the changes in the industry and how gamers at large today have changed. I truly believe if we make thoughtfull home for them, and protect the hardcore player needs, we can grow the FGC and make a better home for all of us.


  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 8,424
    Thing about trends and trying to catch the casual fire in your pocket I give you exhibit A.

    Socom tried to cater to the cod crowd and grow it audience. So they completely changed what people loved about those games. a tactical 3rd person shooter that was heavily dependent on teamwork and you valuing that life at the beginning of the round. Casuals didn't want to wait 4 minutes between rounds watching their teammates play... they wanted to mash X and get right back in there only to be gunned down within 15 seconds. The devs made Socom 4 centered around lame modes and the ability to respawn and the whole fucking game died. Socom which was at one point Sonys most popular first party ip online is completely dead because casuals do what they do, they bought the game, played it for a week or 2 and never played it again.

    I recently got a friend to buy SFV. I am introducing him to the scene and how to properly play a fighter vs another person as opposed to the computer.. I beat his ass for like 3 hours today and told him what he was doing wrong, why sweep is a terrible button to push constantly in neutral, why frame data is important, why dropping combos is important ect ect. I want him to be apart of the scene as it is, for him to fall in love with the game as it is, not transform this thing into something that will make him feel better. If I lose him then so be it... everything isn't meant for everyone.

    Just because I lost... doesn't mean I was defeated
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  • ChingachgookChingachgook Joined: Posts: 29
    edited December 2016
    NickRocks wrote: »
    Pertho wrote: »
    You know how we know you're retarded and dont care about fighting games?

    You think that capcom made the game more accessible to people through simple mode as opposed to all the other shitty mechanics the game put in so life would be more fun at the lower levels.

    Thays how we know there's nothing devs can really do to get you to play with us.

    I want us to have a deeper more meaningful conversation than just skating on the surface.

    As you say Capcom did make the game more accessible with simple mode. I saw this work myself when I hosted my sons birthday party with ten other 9 year olds. Simple mode allowed them all to enjoy the game a bit more, they had access to moves they enjoyed. The can improve simple mode even further.

    However we all, me included, don't want them to water down the game play for hardcore players. The way to protect hardcore players is to make simple-mode more robust with macos for casual players. This could lesson the need to adjust the hardcore gameplay mechanics we want to protect so much.

    I'll always continue to play fighters. I even stopped playing that FPS today to play some Marvel. However I'm not blind to the changes in the industry and how gamers at large today have changed. I truly believe if we make thoughtfull home for them, and protect the hardcore player needs, we can grow the FGC and make a better home for all of us.


    what will this accomplish in keeping fighting games alive exactly?

    You know what happens when noobs like you who get simple mode macros show up to a tourney?

    They get fucking DESTROYED LMAO. Because simple mode macros will NEVEREVEREVER be the most optimized damaging combos. You cant macro shit like mvc2 rom infinite or ahvb or fly combos into commando. And what happens when u noobs get destroyed? U pout and go home and get on srk and type "fighting games arent acceptable" because you dont want to take the time to get actually good, you want false validation from the game that yes you are awesome heres ur gold star. Simple mode has always been good enough to beat the computer but it will never be competition viable. Sorry to crush ur dreams bro. Im convinced this is a troll thread too now

    It's not a troll thread. Wish it was, but if you haven't noticed developers ARE changing the game mechanics to make our games more "Player-accessible" However they are doing at the expense of the hardcore players by changing the game-mechanics, thus hurting what the hardcore respects, we respect the high level player-ability and player-skill.

    So If I'm trolling than the game developers are the king of trolls because they are the ones watering down the game-mechanics.

    However, if we ask that a solution for PvE and PvP are met with a distinct line in the sand, such as a ROBUST improved simple-mode, that can help the noobs perform all the moves, yet it also protect the hardcore game mechanics that we don't want watered down anymore.

    Because what is the developer solution today? It's water down the game-mechanics. Why don't we keep the game-mechanics at the hardcore level, in exchange for having noobs the ability to access all the special moves in the game with simple one or two button push? This way the noobs get accessibility, and the hardcore game mechanics are preserved.

    In addition It can help grow the playerbase having easy accessibility to all the moves. With a larger playerbase increases the chance some people will convert to hardcore. We all start as casuals and then grow into a hardcore player. To help this we need a larger player base, especially because the sales of fighting games are trending questionably.

    You right, noobs who think macros would win them a tournament are kidding themselves. Besides simple-mode is not allowed at most tournaments.

    However those noobs are the 80% that buy the game and are the fuel to fund the next game.

    We should cultivate our PvE player base, to increase participation and we can all benefit from a larger playerbase.
  • ChingachgookChingachgook Joined: Posts: 29
    I'm 100% okay with exploring ways to make fighters more accessible as long as they don't ruin the genre for the hardcore player. The thing is though, you can't just throw in some macros and be done with it. That just changes the new player experience from "button mashing normals and getting rekt" to "button mashing macros and getting rekt." You gotta teach them how the game is meant to be played in a way that will sink in. The execution barrier is such a small piece of the puzzle that it's ultimately insignificant. And pads are a viable input device. There is no requirement to get a stick in order to enjoy fighters.

    Exactly. Done correctly it would actually protect the hardcore game-engine that the hardcore players want, specifically keeping things like 1-frame Inputs.

    However we now have those 1-frame inputs expanded to 3 in the name of accessibility.

    When we could have kept the 1-frame input mechanic, and just provided noobs an improved expanded 2.0 version of simple-mode.

    Thanks for the reply.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,612 mod
    edited December 2016
    The funny thing is that, the Marvel games have always been meant to be casual friendly, with chain combos, and what basically work as 1 button specials (assists). It's usually how the players break open the game that make it more challenging to play competitively.
    Pertho wrote: »
    If this motherfucker says hardcore one more fucking time...

    PvE elements. Like I said before, you just want boss rush mode so you can say you totally beat God Ryu by doing it with x y or z character and you're so cool because of it. I mean i get it. I basically did everything you could do in SC3 except for that shitty mode that would corrupt your save data.

    But none of the easy controls or massive single player nonsense has saved that series nor increase the amount of players in the scene for it.

    "But you dont get it. It'll really work if you do it to this one game i like thats the one that will break through and suddenly fightets will be huge and esports man".

    Think that all you want but it hasnt happened.
    I like the fact that somehow PVE is supposed to make something a "huge esport" when the latter has nothing to do with PVE.
    Post edited by d3v on
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
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    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
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  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,027
    it really doesn't take that much time to learn enough combos to become competitive. spend a few hours in training mode as your starting point. start building your game from there. I imagine this is how every competitive game is.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,460 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fantasy Strike is coming out soon.

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  • ValoonValoon Joined: Posts: 1,627
    edited December 2016
    I am not against a mode for people who want to play it where they can do moves with one button and combos by mashing a few buttons but then it is his own mode and it doesn't touch anything else.

    No half damage if you do it this way kind of crap, you want to play like this, then you play this mode with people who want to play this way too.

    But then people will not like it because they might feel tossed aside, which would not be completly wrong.


    The fun of fighting games for me is the reward you get for training at them. If I can't do something, I spend hours in training and then I start to do it in real games and it feels good.
    I even go back to USFIV sometimes just to play training mode and do the combos because they are not that challenging in SFV.

    One thing I don't get tho is the "motion to do moves" problem. I don't want to offend you but come on. Since I did not start that long ago (with USFIV) I remember very well my start. First I started on keyboard because I had nothing else and I could do moves after one night. Granted on keyboard it's easy, then I switched to stick and it took a few days to be pretty consistent even in combos. It's not like it takes months.
    I also have a friend who started with SFV he has around 50 hours on it (most of it is playing with me or with friends not training mode), he plays Karin which is arguably pretty hard execution wise compared to most of the cast, plays on pad and he has trouble doing combos for sure but he does moves motions in his sleep already.
    Hell he has a friend who is the typical casual button masher and he does the moves no problem. He doesn't even own the game.

    I am talking SF but it's the same for any game.
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  • KiyaaKingKiyaaKing Joined: Posts: 752
    edited December 2016
    forte95 wrote: »
    I don't think casuals leave because moves are hard. They leave because they lose.

    There've been comparisons to Counter Strike and DotA, and I want to say the things said about those games are wrong.

    OP relates to loving FGs since their inception; I can attest to the very same thing for CS and DotA. I've loved that shit since the day it was made and I've been in the scene before we were even called a "scene" (they came out later than FGs so you don't have to be as old to be OG, you just had to be in the right country cause North America gave zero shits about DotA before DotA 2).

    And I can tell you that tons of "casuals" drop the game because they fucking suck. I've seen them all come and go. They tinker with it a little bit, but when the game starts and they're up against someone good, they do absolutely jack shit before dying for the thousandth time, so they never play again.

    It didn't help that you could "click and things would happen", or press a button to move and "it would happen".

    Come to think of it, I've never heard a casual complain about shoryukens until the first time they get mauled. Then all of a sudden it's all, "I swear I did a shoryuken! This game cheats."

    ---

    So the real problem you have to deal with is how to make losing suck less. I'm not saying it's all on you to fix that. No matter how good you are or how much you love to learn, there's always gonna be a time when you lose and you get salty. And there's always gonna be someone better than you so you'll never run out of Ls you have to take.

    But my point is, I don't think making the controls easier will do anything, unless you also address the fact that losing sucks a lot more than not being able to do a move.

    Good point, and in that regard I do see a way fighting games can help casuals deal with it. The only problem is that it's very difficult to design and probably too much work for a non-guaranteed result. What I'm referring to is an automated coach.

    It's possible to design an in-game coach that records your inputs and overall performance each game and gives pointers for how to improve your game after a loss. This could be useful to anyone, but would especially be useful to casuals who don't really know what they're doing or why they're losing.

    The issue with it is that there often isn't a clear distinction between what decisions/practices are good or bad in fighting games. Some things that aren't good in one situation are great in another. Because of this, I doubt an in-game coach can get sophisticated enough to give accurate advice for every game, or even most games. I could be wrong, but it just seems like too much work for the possible reward of a casual wanting to learn and stick with the game.
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  • NickRocksNickRocks or whatever Joined: Posts: 22,170
    So many long ass posts about how to make fighting games accessible...yall couldve been practicing combos instead, and then you wouldnt need to worry about if the game helps you win or not

    I wonder if the FPS scene has to deal with stuff like this. "Auto aim should be allowed online" lololol
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  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 4,404
    edited December 2016
    A pad player just won Capcom Cup, a pad player that was also fucking sick at the previous SF which was much harder in terms of mechanical skill.
    So basically get your weak-ass excuse of pad players having difficulties learning fighting games out of here.

    Also what the fuck is wrong with your "I can't get the move out"-bullshit.
    In an FPS you get the headshot every time you want it, and don't need to practice like a fiend?

    Making shit easier doesn't appeal the casual gamer.
    What appeals the casual gamer is the illusion of there being more than just the 1v1 element.
    Let them have it and let them fuck off when that shit is exhausted and tell their friends how cool this game is.
    Our favorite game racks up sales and Capcom or whoever will support it for a longer time, great.

    I don't want to be left with fucking Rising Thunder though, when those retards finally fuck off.

    If you want fighting games to be more popular, look over to Mortal Kombat and especially about what NRS does aside from delivering a core fighting game.
    They got a recognizable brand, they got the violence gimmick that always rolls with young people, they deliver a shit load of content for you to unlock and they are bringing in guest characters.

    The core fighting game is questionable in terms of quality, but that doesn't even matter to a casual audience. People want to sink time into those single player modes and talk to their friends how Cassie Cage saved christmas, then be done with it until they can play as fucking Alien.

    Capcom failed to deliver completely on the casual playerbase with SFV, even though the core gameplay is made for casuals, which is retarded as fuck.
    I hope they learned from that mistake and do a better job on Marvel, though I doubt it, since those monkeys still try to push e-sports in a game that doesn't have any youngbloods coming into the game, since only people who were already hooked on previous titles play that fucking game.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird Crack is back! Joined: Posts: 23,983
    Pair Play is the only hope for casuals. When casuals played SFxT pair play is all they wanted to do. Hoping they can team up with someone good who will take them to victory. Those fuckers never wanted to be on point.
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  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Sometimes It Snows In April... Joined: Posts: 3,239
    DoctaMario wrote: »
    Inb4 *yallniggazpostinginatrollthread*

    I don't believe that you're a hardcore fighting game player because Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is one of the most accessible fighting games ever made. There's no way that you used to play Street Fighter 2 at any kind of decent level and are having trouble with Marvel vs. Capcom 3 I just don't believe it.

    Lol no worries you don't have to believe me, because it's not about me.

    It's about making a better product for all of us to enjoy.

    I agree MvC3 is one of the most player-accessible fighting game. However it did not go far enough to allow casual players to just have fun with special moves. Still required was some ability to do a complex input.

    In my OP I try not to make player-accessibility a one-issue-silver bullet. Because it's not a single solution, it's a suite of multiple solutions, from giving players access to the moves, to giving campaign mode, survival mode, team-play and more.

    But many times these modes are after-thoughts never building past a lame 1.0 version of the PvE mode.

    Okay, but the execution is a former of PvE. So is character knowledge. Granted it probably isn't the PvE you're thinking of (I guess I don't really know what you mean by PvE) but it still counts imo. And fighting games have some of the most advanced PvP there is.
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,067 mod
    I like how there's apparently no execution in WoW, FPSes or MOBAs.

    Let me fucking tell you how retarded I am at FPSes. I couldn't get a head shot on a standing enemy. MOBAs have all sorts of nonsensical decisions, limit your attacks with a retarded counter and are full of wack ass strategy more obtuse than "control space" in an FG.

    I guess we need a clicky clacky fighting game so people can feel good. I might address some of the finer points into some long complicated post that the OP and his buttbuddy will ignore because they just want SRK to turn into a giant group hug or I could go do something useful. I'll do the latter.
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    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • NickRocksNickRocks or whatever Joined: Posts: 22,170
    Execution is even worse now in fpses now that niggas can superjump
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  • CyanPrimeCyanPrime Joined: Posts: 29
    I just had a thought about this. For people who don't want to input "complex commands" (QCFs, or 236s) why not use charge characters, like Guile, Remy, Vatista, etc? Then it's way more about the timing then "complex commands."
  • ChingachgookChingachgook Joined: Posts: 29
    forte95 wrote: »
    I don't think casuals leave because moves are hard. They leave because they lose.

    There've been comparisons to Counter Strike and DotA, and I want to say the things said about those games are wrong.

    OP relates to loving FGs since their inception; I can attest to the very same thing for CS and DotA. I've loved that shit since the day it was made and I've been in the scene before we were even called a "scene" (they came out later than FGs so you don't have to be as old to be OG, you just had to be in the right country cause North America gave zero shits about DotA before DotA 2).

    And I can tell you that tons of "casuals" drop the game because they fucking suck. I've seen them all come and go. They tinker with it a little bit, but when the game starts and they're up against someone good, they do absolutely jack shit before dying for the thousandth time, so they never play again.

    It didn't help that you could "click and things would happen", or press a button to move and "it would happen".

    Come to think of it, I've never heard a casual complain about shoryukens until the first time they get mauled. Then all of a sudden it's all, "I swear I did a shoryuken! This game cheats."

    ---

    So the real problem you have to deal with is how to make losing suck less. I'm not saying it's all on you to fix that. No matter how good you are or how much you love to learn, there's always gonna be a time when you lose and you get salty. And there's always gonna be someone better than you so you'll never run out of Ls you have to take.

    But my point is, I don't think making the controls easier will do anything, unless you also address the fact that losing sucks a lot more than not being able to do a move.

    Great response. I agree with the gist of what you're saying, let's widen the view, and deepen the discussion so we can apply what your correctly saying in a more full body discussion.

    You are correct when you say many noobs leave because they lose. However let's widen our view.

    As I mention player accessibility is not a one-silver-bullet solution. It will take a suite, a multitude of solutions to fully address.

    First let me defend the simplified-inputs as a small part of the solution, then I'll address your point about noobs leave because they don't win.

    Easy access to a special move a casual player wants is part of the solution. Is it 10%? of the solution? Is it 20% is it 30%? We don't know how much it will solve. However this video showcases as proof that simplification of inputs does contribute to keeping interest of new players: (at 3:00 minutes simplification of complex inputs helps his friends stay interested and says himself at 3:40 says simplification is one of the methods to keep new players. What's really sad is the hardcore players game-mechanics could be completely preserved, by giving noobs all-access to special moves. Instead of that solution Capcom has taken away most(all?) one frame links in SFV. There are solutions to keep that high level game-mechanic with no compromise. Yet still give noobs access. But Capcom chooses to water down the game mechanics. Players should ask for better solutions.)

    To directly address your point that noobs leave because they lose, yes, however that is only in a PVP laser focus view.

    There can be additional options as people have mentioned, a suit/multitude of solutions for the casual players to win. These players can win in survival mode, they can win in campaign mode, win in high score mode, and other creative PvE activities. We don't have to make this a zero sum game. Or a zero-sum product, that lets other products provide a more complete offering.

    This solution would not only help with player-accessibility, it would also help with player-stickiness overall helping increase our player base.

    A larger player base helps us all.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird Crack is back! Joined: Posts: 23,983
    It sounds like Dragon Ball XenoVerse is the game your looking for OP.
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  • shmurdasceneshmurdascene Joined: Posts: 126
    edited December 2016
    Pertho wrote: »
    What your dumb ass and schmurdascene's want us to do is care about you not wanting to play with us because you have some issue we can't fucking control with these types of games.

    You know why? Because nobody has and nobody will ever make the case that Boss Rush mode in the handle Castlevania games are Fighting Games. Megaman doesn't suddenly turn into a fighting game when you have to beat the 8 game bosses before you fight Dr. Wily. As much as you need to tell yourself that if we just make things easy enough you'll play, you won't.

    Because I don't have any desire to play online (in any game not just fighting games) I somehow have an issue with fighting games? It has nothing to do with difficulty and everything to do with growing up without it and never seeing the need to go online.

    You guys have your heads stuck so far up your asses you don't realize your fighting game "skills" aren't impressing any one.

    You still don't get it. We don't want to learn how to play the game like you.

    Mega Man and Castlevania aren't fighting games so of course Boss Rush doesn't make them fighting games. Single player modes in fighting games still have fighting game gameplay, because playing a single player mode in a fighting game is playing a fighting game.
    Pertho wrote: »
    You wouldn't be playing a fighting game if you were just playing a computer.

    Then how do I have thousands of hours playing fighting games against the computer. You guys are incredibly immature. I don't play the game how you play it so somehow I'm not playing it at all. I don't count because I don't play online. Your like a child covering their ears because they don't want to hear the truth.

    I am just as much of a fighting game player as you.
    Pertho wrote: »
    Almost all of the shit you've suggested has done nothing to bring people to us.

    I don't know about, @Chingachgook but I don't care about bringing players to your scene. I care about fighting games selling so they can get sequels.
    d3v wrote: »
    The purpose of "arcade" and story modes was to pad out the $60 games in the days when there wasn't any sort of online play on consoles

    No they were the game on home consoles. Period. People played against friends too but how many people have friends over every time they want to play? Not that many.
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 4,391
    Fighting games can't compete with FPS or MOBA, is a lost battle. And the reason isn't the complexity of the controls, but the fact they are team games. Your teammates can carry you and, if they don't, you can always blame them for your losses. Counter Strike, for example, is a team based FPS that's actually very hard to learn. You must not only have a very good aim, but also must know the best statrategies because the game punishes your mistakes really hard. Yet, it's one of the most played games, competing with free to play games in terms of popularity, like Dota or LoL.

    So, no. No amount of simplified inputs will make more people be suddenly interested in fighting games. Take Rising Thunder as an example. One button specials, simple mechanics, free to play game... this sounds a perfect formula to bring a lot of new players, right? Wrong. Online became a wasteland after few weeks. Casuals still got frustrated by simple tatics like tick throws and zoning and left. There's no way you can simplify the game to the point anyone can compete with little investment without making the game utter shit.

    I agree that the companies should try to get new players, and the best method is adding more single player contents (arcade, story, survival, etc). Smash Bros and Mortal Kombat already do this, and I would like to see more games follow this path of robust single player experience. That's how you bring new people to the game without pissing your FG hardcores.

    This. End of Thread.
  • EffenhoogEffenhoog fish are friends Joined: Posts: 1,510
    I'm not really sure what the OP's message even is here.

    I'm pretty sure no one is really against having an optional simple control mode or more vs CPU content for people that want it. Perhaps the developers are not catering to this group as well as they could, but what does that have to do with the community?
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,460 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2016
    You're really stupid at this point if you think simplifying gets a TON of more people in. It doesn't. SFV found a pretty good middle ground to get people in without completely removing execution and tech and that's about how far it'll go.

    The other reasons why fighting games are popular or not as popular have to do with things outside of how easy they are. They're not making sports much easier to play, no reason to think that easier is going to work for fighters.



    Rock paper scissors is easier to play and has legitimate tournaments with prize pools, but I don't wanna play that shit.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

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  • NickRocksNickRocks or whatever Joined: Posts: 22,170
    If you dont care about playing the game the way the competetive scene plays it...you dont care about the fgc or evo...how the hell do you expect to know how to tell us how to grow he damb scene

    Im trying to not rage so I dont get banned
    King of the Post-09ers
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  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,265
    Just wait 10 years bro and you'll get your wish, I promise you that
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,460 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited December 2016
    Talk about how to punch and kick good or GTFO

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

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  • drunkards_walkdrunkards_walk Joined: Posts: 3,265
    But the players who really want to get into the genre will stick around, because they have sense enough to know that you don't just pick something up and instantly become good, especially something competitive; it takes work. You wouldn't expect to play Chess for the first time and beat veteran players (barring some weird Bobby Fischer scenario). Similarly, you can't expect to jump in to fighters and instantly do work. This is just common sense tbh...
    Opinions are like bedsheets: you only change them if it helps you get laid.
  • WastedWasted Verbal Diarrhetic Joined: Posts: 5,313
    What I hope to touch upon is the universal want that our favorite genre and favorite game grows in popularity.

    It's not a universal want. That is your first mistake.

    SFV: Ken, with THAT ORANGE COSTUME

    I have nobody to play with, so I typically talk out of my ass.
  • CyberPhoenix0252CyberPhoenix0252 Joined: Posts: 351
    edited December 2016
    But the players who really want to get into the genre will stick around, because they have sense enough to know that you don't just pick something up and instantly become good, especially something competitive; it takes work. You wouldn't expect to play Chess for the first time and beat veteran players (barring some weird Bobby Fischer scenario). Similarly, you can't expect to jump in to fighters and instantly do work. This is just common sense tbh...

    I 100% agree, it really is just a matter of common sense.

    Which is why I think the 'simple mode' thing OP was proposing after skimming the thread won't do jack squat to reel casual players and keep them in.

    The people who are going to be infinitely (heh) more better at the game are still going to beat the casual players using a 'simple mode' free, simply because they are the better players.

    TL;DR:
    If after all these changes in gameplay, the advancement of technology granting us great internet connections and you still can't make the cut, it's not the game. IT'S YOU. It's not the community. IT'S YOU.

    Rip sig.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,612 mod
    d3v wrote: »
    The purpose of "arcade" and story modes was to pad out the $60 games in the days when there wasn't any sort of online play on consoles

    No they were the game on home consoles. Period. People played against friends too but how many people have friends over every time they want to play? Not that many.
    No. And I recall that some developers have have even admitted to this fact.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,002
    edited December 2016
    What's really sad is the hardcore players game-mechanics could be completely preserved, by giving noobs all-access to special moves. Instead of that solution Capcom has taken away most(all?) one frame links in SFV. There are solutions to keep that high level game-mechanic with no compromise. Yet still give noobs access. But Capcom chooses to water down the game mechanics. Players should ask for better solutions.)
    I was happy to see 1-frame links go though. It wasn't a mechanic that promoted good timing, it was a mechanic that promoted learning to p-link, which gave an advantage to stick users over pad users. P-linking itself wasn't a skillful technique, so I don't see how 1-frame links added any sort of depth to the game(at least, not the ones where you could p-link).
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