Um...why don't shoto's use fireballs anymore

BT9M1BT9M1 Joined: Posts: 23
By what I post here, I know I look like a loser at SFV...and I am not that great (I'm silver rank) but, I don't get SFV

Some characters no longer play like they have been playing since the early 90's...

The characters I wonder about most are shotos, especially Ryu.

Where is the fireball game...? Ryu doesn't seem to use fireballs anymore...and...fireball zoning was a big part of Ryu. Are fireballs so shit now that it's not even worth bothering with fireball zoning...? because no body plays Ryu in the way they used to.
SFV - Urien, Akuma
Third Strike Online - Ryu and Akuma
TTT2 - Heihachi, Kazuya, Devil Jin, Bryan
Tekken Revolution: Kazuya, Paul, Steve

Comments

  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 645
    edited February 1
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Basically this.

    Unfortunately SFV is a game that basically says to you ur fireball game don't mean shit (with the exception of guile). It's not 2 say that shotos can't still do it but all it takes is one correct jump in from ur opponent and ur gonna take a shit ton of damage and when u add the fact that late dps get stuffed now its even worse. That's why people say shotos r terrible now. They cant use fireballs like they used to, there pokes r pretty bad so it's like what r they supposed 2 do in certain match ups other than get there ass beat
  • Dime_xDime_x Wasting time Joined: Posts: 9,235
    Fireballs are matchup specific. Some characters ignore them, some characters are fucked over by them.

    It seems like most characters that have fireballs have shit anti fireball options and characters that don't have fireballs can damn near ignore them.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Dime_xDime_x Wasting time Joined: Posts: 9,235
    You played 3S and you ask yourself where your fireballs went? lol.
    How much have you played that game exactly?

    Hope your not talking to me. I've never even played one competitive match of 3s. I think the game is hot garbage. Most I've done is some training mode and playing Ng for like a week when it came to arcades.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,358
    Dime_x wrote: »
    You played 3S and you ask yourself where your fireballs went? lol.
    How much have you played that game exactly?

    Hope your not talking to me. I've never even played one competitive match of 3s. I think the game is hot garbage. Most I've done is some training mode and playing Ng for like a week when it came to arcades.

    I'm talking to OP who sports "Third Strike Online - Ryu and Akuma" in his signature. If he really played that game he should've known that fireball heavy shotos haven't been effective in all SF games "since the 90s".
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,545 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    3Sdabes

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • crash_and_burncrash_and_burn While you're at it, add some more bells!!! Joined: Posts: 2,382
    Just play the neutral with EX. Devil Reverse, you'll be fine.
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 6,169
    What's a Fireball?
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin - And Probably Satsuki :P
    CFN: TWINBLADES
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 5,013
    Fireballs? In my Tekken?

    2978635-5.jpg
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
    "@Cestus tightened her ass up" - YagamiFire
  • nkznkz Joined: Posts: 7
    edited February 27
    Some of these replies don't even seem like respondents acknowledged that the OP outright said he is silver ranking and not so great at the game.

    Just keep playing, get better and rank up. Also keep watching SFV videos and tournament play where you will see more use of fireballs properly but not in the purist way such as Guile, Akuma or Sagat in past versions of Street.

    If the game is being played correctly you will be annoyed by projectiles but won't see the same in SFV since mostly everyone has great tools to avoid them. If the opponent uses them too much or in an obvious way they will get punished hard. This is also because jump-ins are super strong in this version so there is greater risk/reward associated with using fireballs. Missing a fireball on your opponent in SFV could cost you the round.
  • jebopjebop Joined: Posts: 6,890
    Game is scrub friendly and promotes playing like a dumbass. See: Both S1 and S2 top tiers.
    Making man children cry on this forum is way too easy.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    S1 TopTier included Ryu and Ken.

    So they promote playing like a dumbass, good to know.
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • jebopjebop Joined: Posts: 6,890
    edited March 5
    Don't try and be smart. Ryu hardly has a fireball game and Ken goes in like a retard.

    Mika clap clap clap, Backdash Nash, IAL it's always my turn Chun, Cammy being Cammy, etc. Oh wait, you play Cammy.

    Please tell me a Ken that isn't Momochi player that played "Street Fighter"? Charge in like a dumbass, 2 random heavy buttons and mash dp. If it connects let me combo 45% into the corner. Then I'll throw loop you.
    Making man children cry on this forum is way too easy.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,497
    Ken's charge in like dumbasses since I play SF online, same with the DP mashing.

    Ryu had a fireball game, it was just not the SFIV 2 button fireball game.

    Why are you so angry btw.? Did someone spit into your breakfest?
    Street Fighter: Cammy, Rose, Decapre, Juni, Juli
    King of Fighters: Leona, Athena, Whip (Rugal as DLC!!!)
    Tekken: Jun,Yoshimitsu
    Overwatch: Reinhardt, D.Va, Zarya, Winston, Soldier 76, Reaper, Zenyatta, Mercy

    My SFV Cammyguide!
  • CrownySuccubusqueenCrownySuccubusqueen Joined: Posts: 19
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Sorry. Total n00b here.

    What makes jumping better in this game compared to, say, SFIV (my first "serious" fighter)?
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 51,545 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Sorry. Total n00b here.

    What makes jumping better in this game compared to, say, SFIV (my first "serious" fighter)?

    Input delay, worse hit boxes for anti airs (not many normals that clean win vs jump buttons) and the shorter range on buttons for some characters forces people to be in cross up situations more often.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • JoshkazJoshkaz Princess Luna is my Waifu Joined: Posts: 15,037
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Sorry. Total n00b here.

    What makes jumping better in this game compared to, say, SFIV (my first "serious" fighter)?

    Shitty anti-airs.
    "You embarrass me," said Shadow, smiling. Then Shadow took his penis out and picked Cream up. "Let me charge up for a super ejaculation!" Shadow laid Cream down on the ground and then took his penis with him, which was already huge and shaking with sex energy, and found Cream's Piggy Bank, which was full of coins and dollars and things to save up for money, so she could buy what she wanted when she had enough inside it. Shadow took it and using his muscular penis, smashed a hole right through the piggy bank so now it was sitting on top of his penis like a hat. Shadow's penis looked like it belonged in a fashion show.
  • Dime_xDime_x Wasting time Joined: Posts: 9,235
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Sorry. Total n00b here.

    What makes jumping better in this game compared to, say, SFIV (my first "serious" fighter)?

    Input delay, worse hit boxes for anti airs (not many normals that clean win vs jump buttons) and the shorter range on buttons for some characters forces people to be in cross up situations more often.

    ^^^ This exactly.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine Veteran of the Fireball Wars Joined: Posts: 7,358
    Quark wrote: »
    fireballs are still useful but because jumping is very good in SFV and because a lot of characters have anti-fireball specials or V-skills, you have to use fireballs more sparingly now. old school, ST-style fireball zoning doesn't really cut it anymore (unless you play Guile who is the one character that can still kinda do that to an extent). better to think of fireballs as risky but high priority pokes that must be used with caution.

    Sorry. Total n00b here.

    What makes jumping better in this game compared to, say, SFIV (my first "serious" fighter)?

    Input delay, worse hit boxes for anti airs (not many normals that clean win vs jump buttons) and the shorter range on buttons for some characters forces people to be in cross up situations more often.

    Also less active frames making the timing of AAs more strict.
    [SF5] Laura, Vega
    [3S] Alex, Ken
    [UNIEL] Orie
    [Xrd] Leo
  • CrownySuccubusqueenCrownySuccubusqueen Joined: Posts: 19
    Thanks for the explanations.

    It clears up a few things...
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