Feedback on Hori Hayabusa dead zone?

LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
edited March 2 in Tech Talk
Hello all,

So i have been practicing Potemkin's 6k loop (GG xrd rev) probably the most hardest and technical combo in the game even harder then some of Ino's combos. But after long time practicing with my Sanwa JLF-TPRG-8AYT-SK Silent + Kowal 1mm actuator i can do it love the stick btw feels fast, smooth and silent. However i tried different sticks:

Regular Sanwa JLF + kowal = not very good diagonals have issues compared to the Sanwa silent and overall not as snappy as the silent version oddly enough
Seimitsu LS-40-01 this one is GREAT i could do the 6k loop relatively easy even if i had no adjustment time to the stick overall superb stick
Seimitsu LS-32-01 after some adjusting i could manage 6k loop maybe getting used to it more will solve it...

However the Hori Hayabusa which i modded by sanding down the 1mm Kowal actuator at its edges did shorten the trow but damn i have some major difficulty doing the 6k loop (6k loop needs extreme reaction and speed 2 or 3 frames leniency it involves charging which must be done very fast before the prior move comes out)

So is this due to the sticks "dead zone" or "Throw" or "Engage"? No matter how fast i input the stick simply does not cooperate once i switch to LS-40-01 and Sanwa JLF silent i could do my 6k loop. Its a shame i do like the feel of the hayabusa since every other combo comes out smooth. Your thoughts on dead zone, throw, engage on the Hayabusa and why i am having issues? Maybe the Hayabusa is great for none extreme timing combos but for the 6k loop its very dissapointing.

Thx in advance
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Comments

  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    Sounds like Seimitsu parts suit your needs better, just stick with those. The 56 is still my favorite.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 2
    Sounds like Seimitsu parts suit your needs better, just stick with those. The 56 is still my favorite.

    Thx for the reply

    Yes the LS-40-01 and Sanwa silent + 1mm kowal are my favourite due to their fast reaction.

    However i would like to know why the Hayabusa has issues (its not broken) its just i have a HARD time doing the 6k loop is it the "deadzone" "engage" compared to say LS-40 and my modded JLF silent + 1mm Kowal?

    And what can i do to remedy the Hayabusa if its due to engage or dead zone are there mods for this? Already used the 1mm kowal actuator for shorter throw.

    Lastly the LS-58 is the same as the LS-56 difference is the less stiffer spring on the 58 correct? Does the 56/58 have a smaller throw, engage, deadzone then the LS-40-01? If so that would be great!
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    The Hayabusa just has a long engage and throw by design. You could put levered switches in it, but that would be a bit more than a drop in mod.

    You are right about the 56/58 only being separated by spring tension. I find it to be a bit tighter than the 40 on engage/throw, but it does have a big wobble zone, a bit more than the 32 and 40. There's also a short throw mod for the 56 family that you could try.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    The Hayabusa just has a long engage and throw by design. You could put levered switches in it, but that would be a bit more than a drop in mod.

    You are right about the 56/58 only being separated by spring tension. I find it to be a bit tighter than the 40 on engage/throw, but it does have a big wobble zone, a bit more than the 32 and 40. There's also a short throw mod for the 56 family that you could try.

    Thanks for the reply,

    Ive been searching and it does verify that some users do comment that the Hayabusa has a rather bigger dead zone and throw then say seimitsu sticks maybe this is why i have issues doing the 6k loop.
    Alright gonna order the LS-58-01 and maybe toss in the throw mod as well. Seems like a good stick for my needs.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    The Hayabusa just has a long engage and throw by design.

    Engage is the same as JLF. If you cut the sides off the joystick, you can drop in a JLF PCB and the actuator is the same design on both sticks. Even a JLF gate will fit on top, the little nubs snugging the switches in. The throw is a tad larger, .5 mm each direction from what I recall in comparison to a JLF. All the dimensions besides the hole size of the gate are identical.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    LawShadow wrote: »
    Ive been searching and it does verify that some users do comment that the Hayabusa has a rather bigger dead zone and throw then say seimitsu sticks maybe this is why i have issues doing the 6k loop.
    Alright gonna order the LS-58-01 and maybe toss in the throw mod as well. Seems like a good stick for my needs.

    Deadzone is the same as JLF. The difference comes from the very slightly different throw. From my own personal experience it seems the newer Hayabusa has lighter springs than the earlier ones, but then that could just be cognitive dissonance from playing on 2 and 3 lb spring setups.

    LS-58 is ok though the pivot leaves a bit to be desired. If you want a better feeling stick then do a throw mod on the LS-40. I posted it somewhere but I don't remember all the details. You can get a nylon spacer from home depot, I forgot the ratio but it gives you 1 less mm of throw which makes it near no throw. Center needs to be widened which you can do with some sand paper wrapped around a pen to get it to fit over the end of the LS-40 actuator.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    The engage distance is most definitely not the same as a jlf. Measurements and even a simple visual observation prove otherwise.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    Oh really, then why are the parts interchangable?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,033
    edited March 3
    The JLF and Hayabusa do have interchangeable parts, mostly the shaft, actuator, and mount plate.
    The Body, gate and I think pivot is completely different.

    That said Camacho is right, the Hayabusa has a slightly longer throw than the Sanwa JLF.
    Camacho is wrong about the differences being obvious.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • Murphy0XMurphy0X Joined: Posts: 60
    The larger throw is definitely noticeable. I haven't noticed a difference in engage distance though.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    Oh really, then why are the parts interchangable?

    The parts can be interchangeable while one has a longer throw. The difference is in the spacing of the microswitches, they're further apart on the Hayabusa. I noticed this when using a short throw octagon jlf insert (in a hayabusa modded jlf plate) and kowal actuator in the Hayabusa- that exact insert and actuator combination worked fine in a jlf, but wouldn't hit the diagonals on the Hayabusa. This prompted further investigation, at which point I noticed that the space between the OD of the actuator and the tabs on the microswitches was larger on the Hayabusa, even when using the exact same actuator. I then used calipers to measure the spacing and found a substantial difference between switches at cardinal directions. Can't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but I know I provided all the numbers the last time you wanted to argue about this.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    The spacing is identical on the switches, again you can drop in a JLF PCB if you do enough cutting to the sides of the Hayabusa. The nubs on the gates also drop in perfect to the switches when mounted on the bodies of both sticks which would be impossible if the measurements were substantially different. If they were even half a millimeter off it would not be drop in replacements!

    You're simply wrong and spreading misinformation.

    @Darksakul we aren't discussing throw, this is about engage.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    I have no reason to make any of this up, engage differences between the Hayabusa and jlf change nothing in my life. I found a difference when using that insert/actuator combination and looked further into it, it's as simple as that.

    Have you by chance tried to make a circle gate that works with the stock hayabusa actuator? Because I found the engage distance to pose a problem there as well. We all know that a circle can work with the jlf, why would it work there but not with a hayabusa? Even with the stock yellow gt-y octagonal insert, hitting the diagonals leaves less room into the throw when you use it on a hayabusa. What do you think would cause that?
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    20170303_124802.jpg

    20170303_124705.jpg

    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    100_2162.JPG
    100_2166.JPG
    100_2172.JPG

    Quit.
  • LittleJimmy1983LittleJimmy1983 Macho Madness Joined: Posts: 906
    Micrometer measuring contest
    ABACABB.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,033
    You know what, I am going to stay out of this.
    I said my peace, now I am washing my hands of this debate.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 4
    Ok guys,

    Did not realize there where more posts i learned a important lesson NOT to fiddle around with different sticks after i practiced the 6k loop with Potemkin took me 2.5 months! Well...i had these other sticks i kept trying and trying since all these sticks have different properties (Throw, engage, dead zone) until...i no longer can do my 6k loop pretty depressing after i invested so much of my time just to realize i really messed up! Not a single 6k loop combo came consistently out on any of the sticks except 1....which is Sanwa jlf-tprg-8ayt-sk (version 2) + Kowal 1mm actuator. 2 days not using this stick after i was so tired of no success i went back to the silent Sanwa and after some effort i managed to get that feeling back again doing the strict timing of 6k loop but to get it consistently will take a couple of days of practicing what a price to pay!

    Why is that? Does the Sanwa silent v2 has bigger throw, engage, dead zone compared to say LS-32-01 and LS-40-01 not even contemplating the Hayabusa...utter dissapointment.
    I used the same exact timing on all my other sticks with terrible results close contender was the LS-40-01 it did manage but the stiffer spring caused issues...

    Playing with the Sanwa silent v2 is imo so fast in reacting to what i command it to do and if any one of you guys know about 6k loop YOU KNOW how hard it is to pull off.
    Is it the Omron switches type: "Omron d2rv-g-sd2" its a blast!
    Also playing on the Sanwa silent v2 is butter smooth hardly any effort in QCF moves at all just a gentle flick of my hand is all that is needed.

    Anyone know where i can buy these switches?? Tried searching but no luck...i rather order 4 of these as a back up then buy a whole new stick.
    Maybe i should make a new thread regarding the d2rv-g-sd2.

    And yes i tried the Octagonal gate from Kowal on the Hayabusa result MINOR improvement regarding timing, but not enough to sense "this is going somewhere".
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    Any lever using D2RVG switches are going to have more engage and deadzone. The reason is they engage further in, so that's why Paradise includes over sized actuators for them. Even a stock Sanwa silent has a larger actuator, the white one if I recall. The larger actuator is to balance out the deeper engage of the switches. If you simply bought the switches and put them into a stock stick, you're going to have a lot of problems. It's actually not a faster switch.

    Paradise sells the switches in a JLF silent kit. Beware, if you try to put them into a lever that doesn't have an over sized actuator mod, you'll have a much harder time doing inputs.
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I don't know how to help, but I came here to say that while it annoys me to do a FADC in SF4 using a Sanwa JLF (I find it uncomfortable), I'm ok with it if I use a Hori Hayabusa. For me that's because the engage is slightly shorter. If there's another reason, I'd like to know.

    TL;DR The JLF annoys me a bit, the Hayabusa doesn't.
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    The engage is not shorter. Perhaps you simply prefer a lighter feeling joystick? Hayabusa doesn't seem to have as much tension these days in comparison to a JLF. That means you have less resistance to inputs, but slower return to neutral. Maybe in your case that works out a little better.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    I'm wondering what kind of tolerances are normally held with these parts. We're not talking huge numbers here, but it was enough of a difference to prevent that gate/actuator combo (which worked in 4 JLF levers I had) from hitting diagonals in my Hayabusa.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,862
    Does the ls-40 and JLW have similar throw and engage?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,033
    Tensho wrote: »
    Does the ls-40 and JLW have similar throw and engage?

    Not the same but very similar
    Similar enough where the LS-40 is my substitute for the JLW
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,862
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Tensho wrote: »
    Does the ls-40 and JLW have similar throw and engage?

    Not the same but very similar
    Similar enough where the LS-40 is my substitute for the JLW

    Any reason why you aren't using one now? I see they are in stock at Paradisearcade, if it's actually correct. Is the body bigger than a Hayabusa or something?
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    JLW, Hayabusa, LS-40, LS-32 are all smililar sizes. LS-32, JLW, and LS-40 are closest when it comes to microswitch placement, close enough that you can force a LS-32 PCB (which fits on a LS-40) into a JLW. It's not a perfect fit but not enough of a difference that you can't force it in. The LS-40 PCB won't fit because of where the PCB lays on top of the switches comes into contact with the JLW walls and you can't place the switches down all the way and then the gate won't be able to be screwed on because the PCB covers the screw holes.

    The JLW has a larger actuator so it may engage a little faster, but because the switches are a little further apart it probably ends up pretty similar to what you'd get on a LS-40. LS-40 actuator has a slight slope to the bell part of the actuator so it will contact the levers of the switches a little later because of that. The shaft on a JLW is much taller than either the lS-40 or LS-32 so there will be more range above the panel when it comes to fine motions.
  • TenshoTensho Joined: Posts: 2,862
    The JLW shaft is longer than the JLF shaft so a JLF shaft cover won't fit it perfectly?
    Do the ls-40 and ls-32 share the same spring?
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    You can add a small spacer between the JLF shaft cover and the pivot to fit a JLW. Yes, the LS-40 and LS-32 share the same spring, so if you want a LS-40 with more tension you can get a LS-38 spring and use that one instead.
  • mIRCmIRC GOD OF SMPTE Joined: Posts: 7,445
    edited March 5
    This morning I discovered that tightly screwing in the Hayabusa gate causes the lever to move less smoothly. I don't understand why this would be, maybe makes the plastic more rigid, but it does have a very noticeable impact. I recommend screwing in the gate as lightly as possible, just enough so it won't fall when slamming on it.

    I'm too lazy to find the original Hayabusa thread so I'll just leave that here. This is only the second problem I've had with the Hayabusa, and both problems were easily fixable. In regards to the topic things like throw, deadzone, and engage are not only modifiable but easily modifiable on any lever so I don't think it's really worth stressing over. However, the pivot can't be changed which makes it paramount. I think the Hayabusa still has the best pivot but maybe I need to try more sticks. I can think of a better pivot too so hopefully that comes in the future.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,033
    Tensho wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Tensho wrote: »
    Does the ls-40 and JLW have similar throw and engage?

    Not the same but very similar
    Similar enough where the LS-40 is my substitute for the JLW

    Any reason why you aren't using one now? I see they are in stock at Paradisearcade, if it's actually correct. Is the body bigger than a Hayabusa or something?

    Finding a if not new a decent condition Sanwa JLW and not a clone like the Ultrimarc J-stick is getting hard now
    LS-40 is easier to find. I still have a stick with a JLW and continue to use it.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    @mIRC the gate is made out of lexan so I don't think it's flexing. Too tight week cause stress though and y you'll feel it more when you hit it because of how rigid and brittle it is compared to something soft like nylon. If you want to use a different pivot you can throw in a JLF pivot. Didn't matter if it's exact since the design of Hayabusa is single point contact, doesn't need to fit perfect.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 5
    Well, after more testing with the 6k loop combo, slowly comes back again ie more or less "muscle memory" i lost it due to changing sticks. But the best sticks for reaction/speed in order to do this insane hard combo.
    The loop starts with simply forward+k its a shoulder move that can not be linked multiple times in order to do so one must use another special move as buffer ie Hammerfal= charge move and also hammerfal break so...in order to link multiple forward+k i need to buffer charge hammerfall plus make it stop break=plinking p+HS all in the same time as the forward+k is still active. You have like 2 or 3 frames window to connect another 6k by using the above mentioned technique which is stupidly hard to pull of. Which makes the "simple looking" forward dash 6k link multiple times.

    Number 1
    Sanwa jlf-tprg-8ayt-sk silent (v2) + 1mm Kowal actuator its simply the best out of all sticks i used. Quality feel, smooth as butter.

    Number 2
    Seimitsu LS-40-01 this to can manage the loop but the spring is to stiff so i changed it to a LS-32 spring note here after reading they are the same but the colors are different 32 is brownish while the 40 is black i could have sworn the 32 is less stiff maybe placebo effect? But it works now can do the loop better and better with it, almost on par with number 1.

    Number 3
    Seimitsu LS-32-01
    I would say its harder to pull of the loop but with effort it can be done now here comes the difference between the 32 and 40 its noticeable the throw, but engage, dead zone do not know what exactly but its there

    Number 4
    Hori Hayabusa + modded 1mm Kowal actuator used both square and octagonal gate. This stick feels great smooth and responsive BUT totally fails with the 6k loop it just refuses to cooperate no matter what i do. Its a shame though would have been my second favourite stick craftmanship is good with this stick.

    Number 5
    Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT + 1mm Kowal actuator HARD time managing the 6k loop it simply isnt fast enough plus QFC have issues it feels weird not my favourite. Changed back to stock actuator and gets even worse....

    Which of the Seimitsu springs are less stiff then the LS-32?

    Is it LS-60 and LS-33?

  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    I don't know how to help, but I came here to say that while it annoys me to do a FADC in SF4 using a Sanwa JLF (I find it uncomfortable), I'm ok with it if I use a Hori Hayabusa. For me that's because the engage is slightly shorter. If there's another reason, I'd like to know.

    TL;DR The JLF annoys me a bit, the Hayabusa doesn't.

    I agree its a nice stick i do remember doing FADC in SF4 with Ryu on a pad bit tricky to do, but he wasn't my main Boxer was and his 1 frame Ex- upper loop combo. But remembering FADC and doing the 6k loop the difficulty between them is gigantic its like "David vs Godzilla" and the Hayabusa simply fails in that aspect its not a fast stick when you need those "frame speed reactions". Have you tried a LS-40 in doing FADC and tell me if you notice any difference?
  • mIRCmIRC GOD OF SMPTE Joined: Posts: 7,445
    @Moonchilde I should have been more clear in saying you can't change the pivot housing.

    As for the gate thing, yeah that's what makes it confusing. I'm pretty sure it's not the gate itself that changes because you can feel the lack of smoothness in the pivot before hitting throw, but the pivot housing is in the metal mounting plate so that makes less sense. Only other thing I can think of is that the mounting plate screws in from the other side, and the four screws from the gate are right on top of that. So maybe the screws act screwy when they're all tightly screwed in? It's weird. Wish someone smarter than me would try it to see what's up.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    LawShadow wrote: »
    Well, after more testing with the 6k loop combo, slowly comes back again ie more or less "muscle memory" i lost it due to changing sticks. But the best sticks for reaction/speed in order to do this insane hard combo.
    The loop starts with simply forward+k its a shoulder move that can not be linked multiple times in order to do so one must use another special move as buffer ie Hammerfal= charge move and also hammerfal break so...in order to link multiple forward+k i need to buffer charge hammerfall plus make it stop break=plinking p+HS all in the same time as the forward+k is still active. You have like 2 or 3 frames window to connect another 6k by using the above mentioned technique which is stupidly hard to pull of. Which makes the "simple looking" forward dash 6k link multiple times.

    Number 1
    Sanwa jlf-tprg-8ayt-sk silent (v2) + 1mm Kowal actuator its simply the best out of all sticks i used. Quality feel, smooth as butter.

    Number 2
    Seimitsu LS-40-01 this to can manage the loop but the spring is to stiff so i changed it to a LS-32 spring note here after reading they are the same but the colors are different 32 is brownish while the 40 is black i could have sworn the 32 is less stiff maybe placebo effect? But it works now can do the loop better and better with it, almost on par with number 1.

    Number 3
    Seimitsu LS-32-01
    I would say its harder to pull of the loop but with effort it can be done now here comes the difference between the 32 and 40 its noticeable the throw, but engage, dead zone do not know what exactly but its there

    Number 4
    Hori Hayabusa + modded 1mm Kowal actuator used both square and octagonal gate. This stick feels great smooth and responsive BUT totally fails with the 6k loop it just refuses to cooperate no matter what i do. Its a shame though would have been my second favourite stick craftmanship is good with this stick.

    Number 5
    Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT + 1mm Kowal actuator HARD time managing the 6k loop it simply isnt fast enough plus QFC have issues it feels weird not my favourite. Changed back to stock actuator and gets even worse....

    Which of the Seimitsu springs are less stiff then the LS-32?

    Is it LS-60 and LS-33?

    The LS-58 spring is really light. Haven't tried a 60, I believe it's just a 58 with Omron switches. I haven't tried a 33 either
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    LS-60 is either a lighter spring than the LS-58 or has switches with less tension. It's the "light touch" joystick according to Seimitsu, to compete with the JLF.
    mIRC wrote: »
    @Moonchilde I should have been more clear in saying you can't change the pivot housing.

    As for the gate thing, yeah that's what makes it confusing. I'm pretty sure it's not the gate itself that changes because you can feel the lack of smoothness in the pivot before hitting throw, but the pivot housing is in the metal mounting plate so that makes less sense. Only other thing I can think of is that the mounting plate screws in from the other side, and the four screws from the gate are right on top of that. So maybe the screws act screwy when they're all tightly screwed in? It's weird. Wish someone smarter than me would try it to see what's up.

    The pivot housing is probably my least favorite aspect of the stick. I just don't like how it feels once you put on a spring with more tension. JLF is much smoother in that regard. IMO, if you want the non-slope curved style pivot house, then get a JLF. If you want the slope, get the Hayabusa. That's the major difference between the two levers, other than the Hayabusa having higher quality plastic for most of its parts.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    Arcadeworld.uk only sells the LS-32, LS-33, LS-55, LS-56, LS-60 springs, is it correct to say that the LS-60 spring is lighter then the LS-32 spring? In any case il order one LS-58-01 joystick and all the mentioned springs except the LS-55.
  • mIRCmIRC GOD OF SMPTE Joined: Posts: 7,445
    Couldn't tell you much about springs. I received springs of several strengths and didn't like any of them other than the one that came with the Hayabusa. However, the springs I received were also taller than Hayabusa and JLF springs leading me to believe that I was sent springs from Seimitsu levers by mistake. I assumed the extra height was causing the spring's metal to rub against one another when compressed between the spring flange and actuator, but if it's actually the pivot that's rather curious. In any case I prefer the weaker spring as it allows you to move faster, so the springs effect on smoothness hasn't been a problem for me.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    @LawShadow if you're buying springs for a LS-32 then the 5x series won't fit. You need to buy either LS-32 springs or LS-40 springs. LS-5x(plus60) levers can't accept LS-32, LS-40 or LS-55 springs so don't bother.

    @mIRC The springs have varying height and coil widths depending on the tension they're at. The extra height doesn't hurt, unless it's much larger in which case you probably got the wrong springs.
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 243
    The 56 is still my favorite.
    for fighting game in stock condition!? if so, you r the man.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    jaquio wrote: »
    The 56 is still my favorite.
    for fighting game in stock condition!? if so, you r the man.

    It's great stock, but I use it with an octagonal gate and a short throw mod. The octagon is nice for long KOF and GG motions.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 7
    Update:

    Further testing with LS-40, LS-32, both doing fine with the 6k loop thank god i didnt forget the timing it took me a good 2 days finding it back but now i can actually use it on all sticks stock sanwa JLF is not that good specially the qcf.

    But i couldn't accept no way that my Hayabusa would be eating dust forever specially when many people tell this is a great stick and it is. So after honing my timing and used it on all my various sticks i said screw it on with the Hayabusa it took me some time to figure this stick out its def stubborn...But i finally cracked it sort of...and doing pretty "decent" with the 6k loop although its still way more work then the other sticks but luckily it just means to adapt to its own personality. I did switched back to square gate it seems that my qcf comes out better with that gate. So there is good hope for the Hayabusa being my nr-2 :). As long as there is progress. Time will tell this coming week.

    Went ahead and ordered the LS-58-01 plus a bunch of different springs and octagonal gate and throw mod im curious how that stick handles the 6k loop....
    Post edited by LawShadow on
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 243
    jaquio wrote: »
    The 56 is still my favorite.
    for fighting game in stock condition!? if so, you r the man.

    It's great stock, but I use it with an octagonal gate and a short throw mod. The octagon is nice for long KOF and GG motions.

    Ahw, then your preference is actually a non official-modded stick. The LS-56 is ultra sensitive for fighting, even with octogonal....great feel with octo, i agree, but it's still very sensitive. I can't say for the short throw mod you did cause my experience is assigned only to Seimitsu optional parts. Maybe the mod you did may help it, i don't know.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    I wouldn't be too worried about what's "official" or "standard" when it comes to buttons and levers, otherwise you're pretty much limited to the stock jlf with sanwa obsf buttons in the vast majority of cases.

    As for the sensitivity of the 56, changing the throw does not reduce it.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    I wouldn't be too worried about what's "official" or "standard" when it comes to buttons and levers, otherwise you're pretty much limited to the stock jlf with sanwa obsf buttons in the vast majority of cases.

    As for the sensitivity of the 56, changing the throw does not reduce it.

    Thanks on the feedback regarding the Seimitsu LS-56/58 and...im liking it the LS-58-01 does what i need it to do pretty good for 6k loop the feeling is different then all the sticks i tried "kind of the most simple in terms of feeling" there is a slight issue with QCF moves but nothing that adjustment can solve. With the SL-58 i can actually sense when im charging properly this makes the loop a tad bit easier to do sounds odd but the feedback of the stick is more pronounced. Still using the stock square gate but going to try out the octagonal gate see if that makes difference for QCF. All in all a good investment.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    The diagonals are really big on Seimitsu levers, especially the 56 family. This is what makes them so good for octagon use, as octagons need a super long throw with the jlf and Hayabusa for proper diagonal function. The big diagonal engage also makes it really easy to miss left or right when doing half circles (qcb into hcf facing right in particular gives me grief when I get stressed) with a square gate, as you have to make sure you're completely left or right to get out of the diagonals. Nothing practice can't iron out, but I do still prefer the octagon- no need for the giant diagonal throw a square provides with the 56 family and it's super tight engage.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    What in the fuck?
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited March 12
    I love the Seimitsu LS-58 for games other than fighting games. It is waaaay too prone to human error, I imagine because of the 4-mm engage. ;( (a friend of mine agrees)
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
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  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,399
    edited March 12
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    What in the fuck?

    I suspect you're just being a troll to annoy me, but I'll spell it out more clearly for anyone new reading.

    Cardinal directions (L, R, U, D) require less travel than diagonals to hit engage. An octagon gate in a joystick with a loose engage like the JLF ends up extending the throw into the cardinals as far as is needed to reliably hit the engage points in the diagonals. This is why the cardinal throw feels fucking huge with a GT-Y gate in a stock JLF compared to the square gate- there wasn't a ton of extra throw past the diagonal engage points to begin with in a JLF square. Make an octagon for the JLF where the cardinal throw is unchanged versus a square and you end up hampering diagonal function.

    With the LS-56 family of levers, the engage is so tight that Seimitsu's octagon gate does not need to expand the throw into cardinals versus their square gate in order to keep good diagonal function. When I say the diagonals are "big", I mean you hit them early, and there's a ton more throw into them with the square than with a JLF or Hayabusa. This is a big part of what makes precision so much more critical with Seimitsu levers (especially the 56), if you get sloppy you'll either not roll fully out of the diagonals (i.e. 41236 inputting as 4123), you'll over shoot and hit the next diagonal as well (i.e. 41236 ending up as 412369), or you'll end up jumping or crouching rather than going forward or backwards (i.e. 6 ending up as 3 or 9). What I mean when I say that the octagon helps guide you fully out of the diagonals is that you'll feel the cardinals and know when to stop- there is much less room for error than with a JLF and its "smaller" diagonals. The big perks of the 56 octagon versus JLF/Hayabusa are the much shorter throw (if you like that, which I do) and the larger diagonal engage area (despite the shorter throw).
    Post edited by PresidentCamacho on
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 12
    Indeed i noticed this as well with the LS-58 "(i.e. 41236 ending up as 412369), or you'll end up jumping or crouching rather than going forward or backwards)" When i go for a Potbuster setup ie J.S, 2P, 2K, Hammerfall + Break + Potbuster it would either jump or do nothing at all or simply does Megafist backward after the break (HFB) but after some adjusting to its "personality" its pretty manageable. I think i found my top 3 sticks...
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