Feedback on Hori Hayabusa dead zone?

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  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    jaquio wrote: »
    The 56 is still my favorite.
    for fighting game in stock condition!? if so, you r the man.

    It's great stock, but I use it with an octagonal gate and a short throw mod. The octagon is nice for long KOF and GG motions.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 7
    Update:

    Further testing with LS-40, LS-32, both doing fine with the 6k loop thank god i didnt forget the timing it took me a good 2 days finding it back but now i can actually use it on all sticks stock sanwa JLF is not that good specially the qcf.

    But i couldn't accept no way that my Hayabusa would be eating dust forever specially when many people tell this is a great stick and it is. So after honing my timing and used it on all my various sticks i said screw it on with the Hayabusa it took me some time to figure this stick out its def stubborn...But i finally cracked it sort of...and doing pretty "decent" with the 6k loop although its still way more work then the other sticks but luckily it just means to adapt to its own personality. I did switched back to square gate it seems that my qcf comes out better with that gate. So there is good hope for the Hayabusa being my nr-2 :). As long as there is progress. Time will tell this coming week.

    Went ahead and ordered the LS-58-01 plus a bunch of different springs and octagonal gate and throw mod im curious how that stick handles the 6k loop....
    Post edited by LawShadow on
  • jaquiojaquio Joined: Posts: 246
    jaquio wrote: »
    The 56 is still my favorite.
    for fighting game in stock condition!? if so, you r the man.

    It's great stock, but I use it with an octagonal gate and a short throw mod. The octagon is nice for long KOF and GG motions.

    Ahw, then your preference is actually a non official-modded stick. The LS-56 is ultra sensitive for fighting, even with octogonal....great feel with octo, i agree, but it's still very sensitive. I can't say for the short throw mod you did cause my experience is assigned only to Seimitsu optional parts. Maybe the mod you did may help it, i don't know.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    I wouldn't be too worried about what's "official" or "standard" when it comes to buttons and levers, otherwise you're pretty much limited to the stock jlf with sanwa obsf buttons in the vast majority of cases.

    As for the sensitivity of the 56, changing the throw does not reduce it.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    I wouldn't be too worried about what's "official" or "standard" when it comes to buttons and levers, otherwise you're pretty much limited to the stock jlf with sanwa obsf buttons in the vast majority of cases.

    As for the sensitivity of the 56, changing the throw does not reduce it.

    Thanks on the feedback regarding the Seimitsu LS-56/58 and...im liking it the LS-58-01 does what i need it to do pretty good for 6k loop the feeling is different then all the sticks i tried "kind of the most simple in terms of feeling" there is a slight issue with QCF moves but nothing that adjustment can solve. With the SL-58 i can actually sense when im charging properly this makes the loop a tad bit easier to do sounds odd but the feedback of the stick is more pronounced. Still using the stock square gate but going to try out the octagonal gate see if that makes difference for QCF. All in all a good investment.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    The diagonals are really big on Seimitsu levers, especially the 56 family. This is what makes them so good for octagon use, as octagons need a super long throw with the jlf and Hayabusa for proper diagonal function. The big diagonal engage also makes it really easy to miss left or right when doing half circles (qcb into hcf facing right in particular gives me grief when I get stressed) with a square gate, as you have to make sure you're completely left or right to get out of the diagonals. Nothing practice can't iron out, but I do still prefer the octagon- no need for the giant diagonal throw a square provides with the 56 family and it's super tight engage.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    What in the fuck?
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited March 12
    I love the Seimitsu LS-58 for games other than fighting games. It is waaaay too prone to human error, I imagine because of the 4-mm engage. ;( (a friend of mine agrees)
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    edited March 12
    Moonchilde wrote: »
    What in the fuck?

    I suspect you're just being a troll to annoy me, but I'll spell it out more clearly for anyone new reading.

    Cardinal directions (L, R, U, D) require less travel than diagonals to hit engage. An octagon gate in a joystick with a loose engage like the JLF ends up extending the throw into the cardinals as far as is needed to reliably hit the engage points in the diagonals. This is why the cardinal throw feels fucking huge with a GT-Y gate in a stock JLF compared to the square gate- there wasn't a ton of extra throw past the diagonal engage points to begin with in a JLF square. Make an octagon for the JLF where the cardinal throw is unchanged versus a square and you end up hampering diagonal function.

    With the LS-56 family of levers, the engage is so tight that Seimitsu's octagon gate does not need to expand the throw into cardinals versus their square gate in order to keep good diagonal function. When I say the diagonals are "big", I mean you hit them early, and there's a ton more throw into them with the square than with a JLF or Hayabusa. This is a big part of what makes precision so much more critical with Seimitsu levers (especially the 56), if you get sloppy you'll either not roll fully out of the diagonals (i.e. 41236 inputting as 4123), you'll over shoot and hit the next diagonal as well (i.e. 41236 ending up as 412369), or you'll end up jumping or crouching rather than going forward or backwards (i.e. 6 ending up as 3 or 9). What I mean when I say that the octagon helps guide you fully out of the diagonals is that you'll feel the cardinals and know when to stop- there is much less room for error than with a JLF and its "smaller" diagonals. The big perks of the 56 octagon versus JLF/Hayabusa are the much shorter throw (if you like that, which I do) and the larger diagonal engage area (despite the shorter throw).
    Post edited by PresidentCamacho on
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LawShadowLawShadow Joined: Posts: 25
    edited March 12
    Indeed i noticed this as well with the LS-58 "(i.e. 41236 ending up as 412369), or you'll end up jumping or crouching rather than going forward or backwards)" When i go for a Potbuster setup ie J.S, 2P, 2K, Hammerfall + Break + Potbuster it would either jump or do nothing at all or simply does Megafist backward after the break (HFB) but after some adjusting to its "personality" its pretty manageable. I think i found my top 3 sticks...
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    What in the fuck?! I can't even...
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    Too much granola and tofu, I suppose.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • MoonchildeMoonchilde Resident tech talk double poster Joined: Posts: 4,836
    No, you're just fucking retarded. You keep spouting off retarded shit here as truth when you're wrong. You've been proven wrong and then you go and spout off more retarded shit like an expert on another topic that you're wrong again on. I'm not even going to bother on your recent bullshit, it's a waste of my time to have to go through and show why you're wrong, so you can keep perpetuating your "truths" here in tech talk until people believe because I'm done with your crap. I'm just going to post that your shit is retarded and hopefully people can use critical thinking and figure it out on their own. If not, it's no sweat off my sack because I don't give a fuck.

    BTW, I like how you disagreed with my posts about how you can fit a JLF PCB in a Hayabusa body because they're the same fucking measurements and then I posted a picture of it actually being a thing, because y'know they're the same fucking measurements. Where's the disagree there? Oh because you're fucking wrong?? No comments about that? Nah, let's change the subject to argue about something else President Camacho is an "expert" on and drop some dank "knowledge" on some noobs so you can earn a little respect round these here parts o' town.

    Have fun doubling down on your garbage.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    I assumed you were being a troll, perhaps you're just a dipshit. All you proved was that your Hayabusa switches are closer together than mine. Everything I'm saying about octagons and throw/engage is based on the fact that a straight line from the center of a square to a cardinal direction is a shorter distance than one going from the center to a corner- it's a very simple concept. Perhaps you're still thinking in terms of those slagcoin pictures that presume an engage zone shrinks, grows, or changes its profile according to the gate you install, which is foolish. Engage zones are only changed by altering the spacing between the actuator and the switches, gates do not affect them.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LittleJimmy1983LittleJimmy1983 Darksakul for mod 2018 Joined: Posts: 938
    So President Camacho what you're saying is that if you choose a JLF it's better to stick with the square gate to minimize throw distance?
    End of one nightmare, prelude to the another.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    So President Camacho what you're saying is that if you choose a JLF it's better to stick with the square gate to minimize throw distance?

    What you like in terms of throw and engage is a matter of preference. That said, a stock jlf with the standard gt-y gate is a poor choice if you don't like a long throw.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LittleJimmy1983LittleJimmy1983 Darksakul for mod 2018 Joined: Posts: 938
    edited March 14
    Would you say the kowal oversized actuator negates the additional distance on diagonals created by the octagonal gate?

    End of one nightmare, prelude to the another.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    Would you say the kowal oversized actuator negates the additional distance on diagonals created by the octagonal gate?

    The additional throw distance the JLF octagon gate introduces is in the cardinal (L,R, D,U) directions, not the diagonals. The cardinals end up longer because an octagon gate’s defining characteristic is that the throw (meaning the travel of the lever, not the engage zone) into all 8 directions is an equal distance from neutral. The engage zone in a standard 4 switch based joystick is a square configuration, so diagonal engage ends up being farther from neutral than cardinals. As a result, an octagon gate must travel between left and right as far as it needs to travel to reliably hit the engages of down left and up right, which in the case of the JLF and Hayabusa means that the throw into L and R gets extended (due to their loose engage zones).

    The kowal actuator both tightens up the engage zone (by enlarging the portion of the actuator that hits the switches) and shortens throw (by enlarging the area that contacts the gate). So yes, it will reduce the extreme throw that you get with a stock JLF actuator and a GT-Y gate, though it still feels a bit far to me. Also, since any oversized actuator tightens up the engage zone, you can get away with a smaller octagon gate (where diagonals were previously hampered or outright blocked). The tighter your engage zone, the smaller your octagon can be without blocking diagonals.

    Really, if you want to use an octagon gate while keeping a short throw, the LS-56 is the way to go in my opinion.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
  • LittleJimmy1983LittleJimmy1983 Darksakul for mod 2018 Joined: Posts: 938
    I actually do have two Octo gate ls-56's. I'm just looking into transitioning to the silent JLF for noise reduction. I like Seimitsu levers but they're quite loud.
    End of one nightmare, prelude to the another.
  • PresidentCamachoPresidentCamacho Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Joined: Posts: 3,450
    Best you can do is give it a shot and see how you like it then. There aren't a ton of silent options on the market, unfortunately.
    Play Crimzon Clover, or go to hell.
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