What do "OG" 3rd Strikers think of SFV?

nozarexnozarex .Joined: Posts: 122
I've took note about this topic in the Laura sub-forums and also in my local community as well as in other ones world wide and it's something that I find interesting and worth exploring.

Back in 05 I started playing 3rd Strike and it was my main game for more then 5 years, we were pretty decent here in Vienna/Austria - had even one guy making it to the SBO in 07 or 08 I think, but that's not the point now. When SF4 came out it brought a lot of fresh blood to our community here, they liked SF4 a lot and a lot of us from the "Old-Guard" just didn't, so we kept playing 3rd Strike for a while but ended up eventually playing SF4. Because (I can speak only for myself) I like to competition and by 2010 most of us jumped to SF4. With less of an Edge of course but we've competed with the new kids. Even tough most of us didn't like the game. Fast forward to 2016 and SFV is here and we see a different picture, I for one think SFV is a great game and in many cases it reminds me of 3rd Strike and in general I like how the game is played, a lot more then SF4. And that is the case with many 3rd Strike players from our scene. While SF4 players in general seem to hate how the game is played. And I've seen a lot of former 3rd Strike players internationally actually liking the gameplay of SFV even though they mostly skipped SF4 - most notably maybe Gunfight.

So I would like to know if other players who started out with 3rd Strike feel the same way?
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Comments

  • amrraedamrraed Bombeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! Joined: Posts: 4,641
    I started from SF4 but ended up developing a love- hate relationship with it.

    Now I like SF5 more than I ever liked SF4.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 57,291 mod
    edited March 24
    OG 3rd Striker. I like it. Lot of similar concepts. Hit confirming, basic bnbs aren't overly long or tight to time, dashing is strong and jumps are a bit more viable as well. In 3S you could eventually scare people with supers or mess with their parry timing to deter them from jumping too much, but in 3S it's more just about picking someone with strong AA or doing a lot of inprovising if you arent.


    Season 1 Chun initially drew me into the game. Saw she had a lot of her 3S buttons, cancelable low forward, b+hp and one hit confirms into super or ex off those buttons. Cammy plays a lot like 3S Ken also. The shotos don't really have the buttons they did in 3S, but their momentum and emphasis on target and one hit confirms is like 3S also.


    Ultra David has also said the game fits well for 3S players and I've seen some 3S veterans like Frankie play the game that I don't believe played much of IV

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,885
    I agree with most of that. I guess I'll be OT in here since there's nothing else going on ATM on this forum. But sf5 is a great game at high level. I really enjoy watching smug and punk and idom play.

    But the problem is that it's so high level that it isn't reachable for us mere mortals. Punk wiff punishes shit like it's his business, smug has the greatest frame trap and stagger game around, and idom has endless pokestrings that set you up for various things.


    I try to play like them and am getting better at it, but it's tough as hell. At low level, players are just throwing out random shit that is very hard to react to. So low level (but still solid/know combos and footsies and mixup theory) often play at a range where a jumpin will wiff, the reason why is obvious... with this game there is a basic neutral game mixup that loses effectiveness at high level but fucking dominates low level:


    Make opponent chase you then do:


    1. Jump in
    2. Dash in
    3. Long range unreactable move (nash mk scythe, Mika charged hk (can react, but hard to react in the good way which is to stuff it in startup) birdie bullhead, urien ex tackle etc etc etc

    That basic 3 way mixup dominates low level play. So to deal with it low level players will play at a range where those moves don't apply... outside dash range, jump range and unreactable move range.

    It doesn't always play out like this, some characters don't have a great long range unreactable, but by and large this is how it goes. Then watch the pros play and you notice that they play footsies and stand just outside of normal move range. That range is what streetfighter has always tended to be, but since the 3 way neutral mixup is so hard to react to, only the good players get to really play that game.


    There are things put into the game and designed to give different options... like akuma in the Chun matchup can just throw fireballs on the ground, then he can jumpin with a divekick, or airfireball, or regular jump.

    It just doesn't feel like streetfighter tbh. This is also a problem that sf4 had in many matchups, but not all, but it's even worse in 5. Then you make jabs very bad for confirmation while also making throws not the greatest when done from tick situations.


    It's hard to be creative in the game because many situations feel hyper binary.

    I don't hate the game though. I've come to accept what it is and try to concentrate on the things I do like, like the upclose frame trap/stagger game and the fact that most opponents can't really pull you unawares unless you don't know the matchup.

    As far as what real 3s players think of it?

    Well I'm not a 3s player but I know for a fact that the diehards tend to hate every game not 3s. It's a very polarising game. Where sf5 lacks creativity, 3s is probably the most creative game that capcom has put out with the streetfighter moniker.

    I'm an ST player and ST is a game that doesn't lack real creativity, but it can be hard to get to it's creative side sometimes when it's lowest level of play from people experienced with the game is still kinda strong. Tick throws are super easy in ST and anyone can do them. At low levels it's hard to get around this. Once you get past that though the game is way more about neutral than anything else because most characters can't easily bypass neutral with a fast dash or some impossible to AA move (sim and vega come closest).
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • ParryThisParryThis Joined: Posts: 443
    edited April 2
    No comment
    Post edited by ParryThis on
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  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 4,077
    Dime_x wrote: »
    That basic 3 way mixup dominates low level play. So to deal with it low level players will play at a range where those moves don't apply... outside dash range, jump range and unreactable move range.

    It doesn't always play out like this, some characters don't have a great long range unreactable, but by and large this is how it goes. Then watch the pros play and you notice that they play footsies and stand just outside of normal move range. That range is what streetfighter has always tended to be, but since the 3 way neutral mixup is so hard to react to, only the good players get to really play that game.

    huh, I've found it to be the opposite. low level players end up playing really close since most buttons are short, and it seems intuitive that you'd want to keep your opponent in poke range

    but high level players understand that the close range is a death trap, and that it's often easier to control space from outside of poke range. jwong almost always plays this way for instance.

    that's just what I've observed, though. I really don't understand the game's meta at this point.
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  • PoisonKissPoisonKiss Beautiful Disaster Joined: Posts: 816
    'OG 3rd Strikers'

    fuck I'm old
    SFV: Laura, Kolin, Cammy, Menat. | IJ2: Black Canary, Cheetah, Poison Ivy, Starfire. | MvCI: Morrigan, Gamora, Captain Marvel. | PSN: eleusiswalks
  • GraphicGraphic Waifu Fighter V Joined: Posts: 666
    edited March 26
    I have played SF2, the Alpha games and 3S (mostly 3S). Speaking as a casual player I enjoy playing SFV, the game play feels great and it is a step up from SFIV (so happy that ultra comebacks are not a thing in this game).

    My only gripe has been the fight money/character color grinding, but I'm over it since missions are now available so more opportunities to get FM are there.
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,570
    ST has a huge execution barrier for me and it reminds me of those impossible arcade games.

    ST feels a little robotic to me. I was a fan of A3 and when I got 3S I really enjoyed its freeform style. It felt like a game where you could adapt on the fly, while in ST you'd need a strategy from when the round starts.

    I'm still struggling to get past gold in SF5, partly because of an inadequate controller mind you, But I'm learning the game and enjoying the fisticuffs style the game has even more so than 3S. With Ryu the fireball zoning was like 20% in 3S but it's up to 70% in SF5 if 100% was the old SF2 games.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,983 mod
    edited April 1
    OG 3rd Striker. I like it. Lot of similar concepts. Hit confirming, basic bnbs aren't overly long or tight to time, dashing is strong and jumps are a bit more viable as well. In 3S you could eventually scare people with supers or mess with their parry timing to deter them from jumping too much, but in 3S it's more just about picking someone with strong AA or doing a lot of inprovising if you arent.


    Season 1 Chun initially drew me into the game. Saw she had a lot of her 3S buttons, cancelable low forward, b+hp and one hit confirms into super or ex off those buttons. Cammy plays a lot like 3S Ken also. The shotos don't really have the buttons they did in 3S, but their momentum and emphasis on target and one hit confirms is like 3S also.


    Ultra David has also said the game fits well for 3S players and I've seen some 3S veterans like Frankie play the game that I don't believe played much of IV

    Gonna agree with DJ over here.

    At the very least, SFV is a game that wants to copy from 3S, taking a lot of concepts from the latter. The only issue for me is the stubby buttons which takes a lot of that 3S feel out (speaking as a Chun player in 3S) and the input delay.
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    like any other old game with diehard supporters, a few of them will play the new SF, most of them won't give it a second thought, and the few who do will be held up as some kind of evidence that "this new game is just like the old one"
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    SF5 is SF2 with better graphics
  • CPS_3CPS_3 Nothing new today Joined: Posts: 178 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    nozarex wrote: »
    I like how the game is played, a lot more then SF4. And that is the case with many 3rd Strike players from our scene.

    Stop spreading lies. XD
    I think only you and dino genuinly like the game.
    .:They should call me hadouken cause im down right fierce:.
  • itsOneOitsOneO Joined: Posts: 460
    Compared to 3rd Strike, definitely a few steps back.

    I like alot of the directions Capcom took with SFV to make it more traditional. SFV has the potential to be better than SF4, but it's up to Capcom to inject "fun" and more dimensions to SFV. The funneled and flat gameplay it has now ain't working.
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  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 6,427
    Started with SF2

    Hated half of SF3 cast and the lack of muh veterans, but art was great and game was fun

    Loved SF4 returning to true Classic SF (SF2), but art was lesser and game was a bit less fun

    Cast wise i absolutely love the idea of core classics being in while keeping space for innovation (is was SF3 should have been), art direction sometimes seem made by a dead monkey and game is imho very fun but... "poor"? I will like my characters having more tools and new moves and shit
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
    "@Cestus tightened her ass up" - YagamiFire

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  • CPS_3CPS_3 Nothing new today Joined: Posts: 178 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 10
    @Cestus, aren't you italian? You should come visit the dojo sometime, Italy is not too far from Austria. We have NeoGeo and 3rd Cabs \(O.O)/ and a solid player base.

    .:They should call me hadouken cause im down right fierce:.
  • CestusCestus Sorry for my english :D Joined: Posts: 6,427
    edited April 10
    CPS_3 wrote: »
    @Cestus, aren't you italian? You should come visit the dojo sometime, Italy is not too far from Austria. We have NeoGeo and 3rd Cabs \(O.O)/ and a solid player base.

    @CPS_3
    Sincerely thanks for the invite bro! =)
    But i'm not so good or dedicated to travel for it, like i don't even frequent italians/my city communities

    I play a bit online, i do some matches with few friends after work and maybe here and there we organize a pizza + fight games nightfall, somebody bring a Saturn, somebody a DC, somebody a PS2

    But even that is getting rare as everyone's work/woman/dinners rarely match

    But the combo Pizza+Beer+Saturn/DC+Friends still have it's charm lol

    Guardian Heroes in multiplayer is the shit lol! =)


    PS: but i admit i drooled at "NeoGeo cabs", dem feels
    I designed SFV Ken, your argument is invalid.
    "@Cestus tightened her ass up" - YagamiFire

    All SFV Colors here!- http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/214626/new-colors-for-story-and-battle-alts/p1
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,570
    edited April 10
    Cestus wrote: »
    CPS_3 wrote: »
    @Cestus, aren't you italian? You should come visit the dojo sometime, Italy is not too far from Austria. We have NeoGeo and 3rd Cabs \(O.O)/ and a solid player base.

    @CPS_3
    .. and maybe here and there we organize a pizza + ..


    :lol: :tup:
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • ProjectjusticeProjectjustice Psycho Denji Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 13
    I love SFV cause it burrows alot from 3s. I personally never liked SF4 but i played it cause it brought back fighters to life. It always had a healthy online community. I look at SF4 now and all i think is how the hell did i ever play it. lol
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  • ZioSerpeZioSerpe Fueled by nostalgia Joined: Posts: 1,245
    I never liked SFIII I started playing with SFIIWW in arcades and on my PC at the time (long live 386, never forget) I actually really liked the Zero series on playstation, I don't know if it was a competitive game in any way shape or form, but was great as a couch challenge game and it was very fun to play alone aswell.
    When the III series came out I didn't really get into it as a game (I used to read a kickass manga about it though) then SFIV, had it, barely played it and now I am super hooked on SFV. It is a solid game, it lacks a metric ton of single player option, but in the era of internet is less of a problem, the fun of the game is always been playing VS other people and I can do it whenever I want now. Is a solid game, I would really like for an arcade mode like everybody, but the game in general is fun and enjoyable.
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  • eviljevilj Joined: Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited May 15
    In 3rd strike, if you "know" what your opponent is going to do, you can completely steam roll them.
    It doesn't take much effort to beat a beginner as well, you can play "disrespectfully" and end the round as soon as possible.

    SF 4 was nowhere like this. SF5 is a step closer to 3rd strike.

    I stopped playing SFV actually before the start of season 2 as I felt I reached my limit and switched to overwatch.

    However, I gotta say SF 5 Karin is one of my favorite characters in any fighting game. When you play a character that you bond well with, it makes the game much more enjoyable.

    If they put SF5 Karin in SFIV, I would probably be have to exert 5x effort just to beat noob Hondas and Blankas online.

    I find it odd when people criticize the "set play" of SF V and not SFIV.

    If I'm playing Chun Li versus Balrog in SFIV, the only thing I can do either a) walk backward throw fireball, anti air his jump ins with fierce or b) pretend to walk forward only to walk backward.

    As Balrog, he just focus attack back dashes the fireballs until he builds up his ultra.

    Every Chun li Balrog match in that game is the same, no matter the skill level.
    Green Karin.
  • Za FuuruZa Fuuru Joined: Posts: 204
    SF V a step closer to 3S? In SF V you can't do anything, you have to eat tons and tons and tons of +on block normals and random command throws
  • NickRocksNickRocks DeathPlay Joined: Posts: 22,818
    why dont u ask this in the 3s section? lol shook
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  • jblairjblair Joined: Posts: 1,447
    sfv sucks, it's too slow, movesets are limited in use, offensive pressure is basically hit/throw until you are stunned/dead and if they block you just do a pointless blockstring or try to tick throw with your pathetic frame advantage until you are pushed back into the HELLISHLY boring neutral game
  • de BLOOde BLOO It's pronounced dee BLOO. Joined: Posts: 4,514
    5 is better than 4

    don't remember history wrong, SF4 apologists that are reading this.
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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    Thread title should be changed to:

    What do OG SF players think about SF5?
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    SF5 is SF2 with better graphics

    Whoever voted for "Get Rekt" on this post is a noob.
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    edited May 17
    NickRocks wrote: »
    why dont u ask this in the 3s section? lol shook

    the vast majority of them either don't like it or are barely aware that it exists
  • Za FuuruZa Fuuru Joined: Posts: 204
    Footsies were weird in SF IV too, due to focus
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,864
    Weren't they weird in SF3 too, because of parries?

    I actualy liked the footsies in SFxT. One good placed poke into 40% damage, it feeled so good! (and anime for that reason)
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  • nozarexnozarex . Joined: Posts: 122
    jblair wrote: »
    sfv sucks, it's too slow, movesets are limited in use, offensive pressure is basically hit/throw until you are stunned/dead and if they block you just do a pointless blockstring or try to tick throw with your pathetic frame advantage until you are pushed back into the HELLISHLY boring neutral game

    This is a wrong estimation of the SFV pressure game and neutral. If you play V like that, and its your only approach to pressure you want be getting far. You have to know the range of the pokes of your opponent well and do stuff like a blockstring that leaves you for example minus on block but at a range where your opponent will try and press a good poke they have - but you do a step back and they whiff, because you know your blockstring left you at that specific range. Then you simply go on and whiff punish them. You can space your moves that are minus on block at a range where you're too far away for them to do a light attack and take their turn- but a mid attack will lose to your light attack even tho frame wise it was "their turn", cuz you catch them in the startup frames of their mid attack. Alone those two approaches to the neutral will allow you to steamroll anybody with decent knowledge of the game and the frames but not enough about how the footsy game is played in SFV - for example someone like yourself. Then again all of that changes and becomes even deeper once you have too opponents to understand and play the game it is intended to. All of that leaves the good ol' simple frame trap completely out. If you know they spaced themselves so your mid attack will be run over by their light attack you can simply delay your attack and get a CH combo etc. etc. it's really not that simple you make it out to be.

    Also maybe you will argue well that's all random and fuck that - well maybe, but a lot of those situations require good reactions, and you need to be able do convert your CH and maybe CC to their full extend, just pressing the combos and hope you get a counterhit in those situations want help you either. And also the same "random" argument goes for the 3s parry. Why the fuck would you dare to punish if you parry for example a c.MK of Ken? he could always let loose his SAIII and punish you for your right read and execution of your parry and attempt to punish of it.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,983 mod
    Deleted most of the egregiously off topic comments.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,708
    Cipher wrote: »
    Weren't they weird in SF3 too, because of parries?

    I actualy liked the footsies in SFxT. One good placed poke into 40% damage, it feeled so good! (and anime for that reason)

    'weird' is extremely relative.
    it depends entirely on what your home game is.

    5 has some neat ideas in it. but it's not 3S so why bother really.
    Play more.
  • CipherCipher Catchphraser Joined: Posts: 1,864
    My homegames are ST,KoF98 and CVS2.
    Allthough I started with SF back in 2008, after I played some ST on fightcade I begane to hate IV with a passion.
    And I learned how the neutralgame works and what footsies is in 98 and a little bit in ST, but mainly 98.
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