The Wrestling Thread: Takeover Houston 11/18 - Survivor Series 11/19

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  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 17
    Kalisto looking like he is struggling with the lines. Scripted shiz strike again.
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  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Certified Geese.... Joined: Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I like this.................I LIKE THIS!!!!!!!
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  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 17
    He should call it the Zotourage but Miz already rocking it.

    If Neville music would have played, I would have popped off.
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  • D'Nyc3D'Nyc3 *Insert Star* Joined: Posts: 6,861 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    D'Nyc3 wrote: »
    F4Wonline.com is reporting that the current creative plan for the main event of this year’s WWE Survivor Series is to do a “Champion vs Champion” non-title main event pitting WWE Universal Champion Brock Lesnar against WWE World Champion Jinder Mahal.

    That'll put a lot of butts in seats.............

    If Jinder beats Brock........................................

    Then I'll buy his Tee

    .........will you then wear it at the following NLBC for the stream monsters to see?

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  • D'Nyc3D'Nyc3 *Insert Star* Joined: Posts: 6,861 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Kane a week late...and wrong cage LOL
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  • CDB2CDB2 Joined: Posts: 3,047
    D'Nyc3 wrote: »
    Kane a week late...and wrong cage LOL

    Wrong type of cage, but welcome back Kane!!!

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  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Certified Geese.... Joined: Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fun Fact...............Kane was involved in the Shield's first TLC match.

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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That's the one where Rollins' face was ded
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  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    po pimpus wrote: »
    Team Hell No was way better than they had business being.

    Vince tried everything he could to bury Bryan, and this dude kept on turning shit into sugar...

    Yes, he did everything he could to bury Bryan right before Team Hell No, damn him for letting DBry have 8 consecutive World Title matches on PPVs. That bastard.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,813
    18 Seconds
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  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.
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  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef Cream of the Crop! Joined: Posts: 8,737
    edited October 17
    Destroying Roman, best Mayoral campaign ever.
    Hell fuck just running for mayor Kane/Strowman 2020.
    TAKING YOU PUNKS DOWN!!!
    ^Bubbleberry_VII you are so godlike for making this.
  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 17
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.
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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,064
    D'Nyc3 wrote: »
    odin wrote: »
    2006 going forward was a dark time lol

    Better than 1995 lol

    Best time. Razor Ramon was top tier and so was Diesel. Didn't like Shawn Michaels or Brett Hart much. Also Undertaker became a little stale and such...
  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.

    Yes, because there's only two ways to book someone. As an A+ player or buried. Damn that Vince again.
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  • maxxmaxx DIO THE DESTROYER Joined: Posts: 36,507 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I hope HHH is not planning to push Lio straight to 205 Live now..............

    its the usual indy signing pic....not everyone goes straight to
    Saitsu wrote: »
    I hope HHH is not planning to push Lio straight to 205 Live now..............

    The plan was always to put Lio in 205 Live, he even admitted himself he didn't mind going to the Cruisers.

    Lio's young and he'll need the grind to learn the subtleties of how to work.

    I'm cool with him going to 205 live.............just not sooner than later.

    Noam Dar is around the same level of experience and he's on 205 Live.

    He was more important in terms of the UK expansion. And already worked with every single UK guy in nxt/205. He was ready to go from jump
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  • eviljevilj Joined: Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Not sure if this was mentioned yet.

    When the shield entered yesterday, it wasn't their old music .

    They just used the "special op" intro from the shields old music but the rest of music is actually Roman Reigns.

    If you listen to the shields old music, you can hear cymbals , drums, and the guitar is slightly different .

    WWE being sly, trying to condition us to like Roman Reigns on a subconscious level .
    Green Karin.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,315
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.

    18 seconds was done to put over Sheamus strong. I remember Bryan saying they did because the company wanted to break the record set by Chavo and Kane for quickest title match.
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  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,234
    Wait, so why is Kane back? I thought he retired.

  • dab00gdab00g Joined: Posts: 20,789
    Wait, so why is Kane back? I thought he retired.

    To get revenge for undertaker

    Also to probably go out putting over Roman so that Roman gets the distinction of taking out the brothers of destruction

    When i personally think he needs to be put down by Braun because Braun is that new school Kane/Taker/Show giant who can work
  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Certified Geese.... Joined: Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    That'll put a lot of butts into seats...........
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  • xEGAxBeastkingxxEGAxBeastkingx Sorry about yo damn luck Joined: Posts: 2,534
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.

    18 seconds was done to put over Sheamus strong. I remember Bryan saying they did because the company wanted to break the record set by Chavo and Kane for quickest title match.

    I could've sworn that Diesel and Backlund had that record. Did you mean quickest WM match?
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,315
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.

    18 seconds was done to put over Sheamus strong. I remember Bryan saying they did because the company wanted to break the record set by Chavo and Kane for quickest title match.

    I could've sworn that Diesel and Backlund had that record. Did you mean quickest WM match?

    Yea, quickest WM title match.
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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,515
    edited October 17
    18 seconds to me felt more like comeuppance for Bryan letting his title win go to his head and mistreating AJ, and the aftermath of which led to AJ becoming a major focal point of both shows as a crazy ex whose revenge on Bryan got the entire WWE title picture mixed up in it too.
  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 18
    There’s a rumor going around stating Nia Jax possibly pulled a Neville recently by walking out of Raw … and while we’re told it doesn’t appear as though she quit, here’s what we know.


    http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/nia-jax-update-rumor-walkout/#.WeajKnZLeRQ

    Saw this on the pizza timeline, sounds bullshit.
    Nia got it made in wwe.

    Saitsu wrote: »
    Saitsu wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    18 Seconds

    Okay, and? He still ended up booking him in a return match with Sheamus, and then immediately into a WWE Title feud with Punk. If Vince wanted him buried, he could've just pushed him far down the card immediately after Mania, not keep him in the World Title hunt until goddamn Summerslam.

    Yeah I am sure Vince saw Bryan as a top star and could totally understand why the crowd were hijacking his segments later on chanting his name. 18 seconds were just necessary in his overall storyline to show he is an A+ player.

    Yes, because there's only two ways to book someone. As an A+ player or buried. Damn that Vince again.

    Yeah this is not 2007 and this thing is not being argued for the first time. Dont act like that's the only aspect to that statement. Vince puts people in his blocks and they are not allow to elevate themselves beyond it. Wrestlers who are hot are quickly deflated and then perma pushed to the midcard or upper midcard slot in favor of their Roman/Cena plans. They'll throw in a bone once or twice to make it look like the fan favorites will someday have their day.

    Sure they would regularly use Dbry on tv, he is too good not to be used. However they will never let that 5'8 guy be their top guy. To the extent he was pushed was never in their plans. They even tried killing his wave by turning him heel by joining the Wyatt family but they had to nix it because no one was having it.

    By your example, they never buried Cesaro. Guy is good enough and at a point was over enough to deserve a legit shot at title still he'll never be given that except maybe a token run years down the line to fill in the slow months.

    It might not be a burial for you but it is for me. If they can do that to Cesaro who atleast looks the part, I really doubt they would have elevated Daniel to the slot that they were eventually forced to do despite him being deserving enough. .



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  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    Yeah, it's not a Burial. Who gives a shit if Cesaro never gets a World Title? PLENTY of fantastic wrestlers have not gotten World Titles, and have been overtaken by arguably worse wrestlers who have. Guess what? Still great wrestlers, still did great things, still considered legends.

    If being THE face of the company, or having true World Title runs is the only way that you aren't buired, then fucking 99% of the roster is buried and I feel sorry for you.

    As for Nia, she just took a personal leave of absence but because of the proximity to the Neville business, it got blown WAY out of proportion.
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  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 18
    Saitsu wrote: »
    Yeah, it's not a Burial. Who gives a shit if Cesaro never gets a World Title?
    .

    I do ._.


    If being THE face of the company, or having true World Title runs is the only way that you aren't buired, then fucking 99% of the roster is buried and I feel sorry for you.

    Likewise I feel the same for you. You can infer that I meant the whole roster but I am talking about specific individuals who are main eventers and are also over to the crowd to that level to warrant that status. Forcing them in a specific slot and not letting them breakout beyond it does sounds like a lowkey burial to me. Stagnant non evolving characters might be to your liking not mine. I don't have an economical investment in wwe to justify them wasting people I like and enjoy watching.
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  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    Sure there's some booking I don't agree with, but there's a difference between me not liking certain booking tendencies, and believing them buried. Would I like to see Cesaro as World Champ someday? Hell yeah I would. Am I going to considered him buried if he doesn't get that opportunity? No, I'm not. In his case, his biggest curse is being too damn good at meshing with anyone to form a great tag team, and honestly I'd feel bad for Sheamus if they split them up so Cesaro could make a run. Cesaro honestly brings up anyone he tags with, and to me that's actually more valuable than a World Title run. Jack Swagger was better thanks to Cesaro, Tyson Kidd got to claw his way back thanks to Cesaro and Sheamus got out of his terrible rut, thanks to Cesaro.

    Sometimes the work you do as a wrestler can have more importance than a Main Event run. Cesaro to me is in that rare breed where as much as I would like to see a Main Event run, I think he has more value doing what he's been doing in the Tag Divisions.
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  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef Cream of the Crop! Joined: Posts: 8,737
    Wait, so why is Kane back? I thought he retired.
    Never retired, he took time off to clear up some nagging injuries and to start up his mayoral campaign. If he gets elected he'll almost certainly have to retire since he can't focus on both mayoral and wrestling duties. But for now he can wrestle for WWE on occasion when he has enough free time.
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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,515
    edited October 18
    D-Bry didn't have to be THE Guy but he certainly could have been one of the top guys. Even Cena at his absolute strongest had foils like Edge, Orton, D-X and Jericho to play off of. All of those guys were THE guy but they were all regular world champions and bonafide main eventers. Daniel Bryan could have easily become one of those top guys who get periodic runs with the main belt and the main event spot that goes with it. Unfortunately this was around the time WWE really doubled down on the notion that if you weren't The Guy, you weren't shit, and it didn't help that another part-timer waltzed in with no buildup and won the Rumble.

  • DarkGeneralDarkGeneral Joined: Posts: 4,428
    I think Cesaro is a great case study in a fantastic worker who makes everyone he works with better. That's why him being part of a tag team makes a lot of sense booking wise. Miz is a similar case, except he has the "it" factor when it comes to being a heel.

    Dbry just had "it". Yeah, he was a great great worker but above all else he made people buy into whatever angle he was in and get emotionally invested. Not just the smarks, but casual and other hardcore fans as well.
  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,515
    edited October 18
    I think Cesaro is a great case study in a fantastic worker who makes everyone he works with better. That's why him being part of a tag team makes a lot of sense booking wise. Miz is a similar case, except he has the "it" factor when it comes to being a heel.

    Dbry just had "it". Yeah, he was a great great worker but above all else he made people buy into whatever angle he was in and get emotionally invested. Not just the smarks, but casual and other hardcore fans as well.

    Bryan Danielson was always an amazing wrestler but Team Hell No solidified the fact that he was also hella charismatic and a strong mic worker/character worker on top of it, and definitely deserved a long run as a main eventer. That being said, I don't want to see him wrestle again because with all of the stuff coming out about his concussion history and revelations of CTE, I don't want to see Bryan become as damaging to pro wrestling as Benoit wound up becoming. Yes, other doctors cleared him, but that's the archetype that brings up characters like Dr. Nick.
  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 18
    Saitsu wrote: »
    In his case, his biggest curse is being too damn good at meshing with anyone to form a great tag team, and honestly I'd feel bad for Sheamus if they split them up so Cesaro could make a run. Cesaro honestly brings up anyone he tags with, and to me that's actually more valuable than a World Title run. Jack Swagger was better thanks to Cesaro, Tyson Kidd got to claw his way back thanks to Cesaro and Sheamus got out of his terrible rut, thanks to Cesaro.

    Sounds hokey to me mate. He has done everything in that area and more. Cesaro making shit into sandwiches means he should be rewarded not punished by keeping him stuck there. As much fun as Team Hell No was, even that had a shelf life and Bryan absolutely needed a singles run.
    Sometimes the work you do as a wrestler can have more importance than a Main Event run. Cesaro to me is in that rare breed where as much as I would like to see a Main Event run, I think he has more value doing what he's been doing in the Tag Divisions.

    Fine man I get it. I guess we have different things we want from the product we watch. I would love to see Cesaro main event and get to showcase just how magical he is big time. His tag matches are undeniably great but that's not his ceiling, not for me atleast.


    Also by your logic even Bray has never been buried. He is prominently featured every week in shows and ppv. However his character is as good as dead and I can see him getting go away heat pretty soon. Same reason why Ziggler is irrelevant now. For me they bury these guys on how they book them. Sure it's not always about the main spot but if you treat people like an afterthought, they become that sooner or later.

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  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,913
    Well yeah, once again Bray hasn't really been buried. I don't agree with booking, but "Jobber to the Stars" doesn't mean burial to me.

    Now ZIGGLER was buried...but considering his attitude any time any booking decisions didn't go his way I'm not gonna defend him for shit either.

    For burials I look at guys like Sin Cara (up until literally tonight). RECENT Heath Slater. Bayley during her feud with Alexa. People where they are so either misused that they're squashed in humiliating fashion, are made one hundred percent irrelevant or don't end up on the show at all. Like, Heath Slater as the jobber he was a couple years back? That wasn't even a burial for him because truth be told, the upside of having a really good Jobber is immense. It's actually one of the most important positions in wrestling and one of the hardest to perform. Slater now though is buried because he just can't find his way onto the card.

    DBry should've been made THE guy, or close to it, I agree. But I'm not going to pretend what he DID get was a burial. I'm also not pretending Vince ever really wanted to push him to the level he got to, but he obviously liked him enough to bring him back in the first place. DBry was never treated as bad as people like to believe. Not as well as we would've wanted, but in terms of careers it's hard to say he got fucked over, even with shit like 18 Seconds and his US Title match at Mania getting upended.

    Also, how is Cesaro staying in the tag division a "punishment"? That's the exact shit that makes anyone believe everyone not in the World Title scene is a burial. That everything below the World Title is nothing.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,813
    I'm waiting for someone to say Sandow wasn't buried.
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  • Tyrant Sardines IITyrant Sardines II Tell me a story Joined: Posts: 2,554
    edited October 18
    It's a punishment based on it being a closed loop that leads nowhere. They can never find anything interesting to did with him regarding a singles run and sooner than later they end up sticking him with someone. Rinse and repeat.

    As years pass by, weekly exposure without any character development just cools down the casual crowd on these guys to a point they're just weekly entertainment not actually attractions. How many times in the past they just have had their top guy singl handly defeat teams Cesaro was a part of? I remember Randy doing it when he was with kid. You wanna see a case of Cesaro in making? look at Harper. He is stuck in the same loop. Few years down the line he'll get the same 'great at tag wrestling' response.

    They killed him by not sticking him in the randy wyatt match at mania. I see that as a burial and I am sure you don't. I guess we differ in that aspect. I always felt them burying Neville as to how they introduced him and then how he was treated as an afterthought and king of irrelevant 6 man matches. His CW run was his first major storyline and that was months after his main roster debut. That is a lowkey burial for me. I guess the issue is with word and everything associated with it. Wastage seems to explain it better.


    Also I don't believe Dbry was treated bad. I enjoyed all his runs. I do believe he was not supposed to reach where he eventually reached. Both with the fans and also his position on the card. The reason I believe this strongly is because of countless examples of others who being in the same situation, didn't make it based completely on the company's choice.

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    Tenacious Disgaea
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