The SSJ5 General Thread: E3 happening but Ono doesn't Spirit Bomb

PerthoPertho The Runed OneJoined: Posts: 21,581 mod
edited June 12 in Street Fighter V
New Lounge:

Post edited by Pertho on
Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

"Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
jimmy1200 wrote: »
pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
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Comments

  • NiiobuNiiobu Joined: Posts: 1,014
    edited April 18
    PLAY BLAZBLUE

    lel this got buried in like 10 minutes
    Freeobu
  • yung_balrogyung_balrog Joined: Posts: 853
    edited April 18
    first

    edit: SHIET
  • crash_and_burncrash_and_burn "Do I drive? Or am I driven?" Joined: Posts: 2,767
    Byron was:

  • A10metalA10metal Joined: Posts: 1,715
    I didn't get to post a funny meme on page 501 :(

    Well anyway
    Page:501 strats
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  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,903
    You: Game is easy so pros lose

    Me: Naw, I haven't see Joe win. Still same guys different game

    You: Naw I'm not saying that about SFV I'm just saying it's easier now.

    Me: Okay but that doesn't change anything, pros still win

    You: Dude you aren't getting what I'm saying, I'm saying the game is eazieeeer

    Me: ...... I know..... I'm just saying the pros are still winning because it's easier for everyone....

    You: I can't react to EX SB this game a shit!!!!


    Me: The fuck

    Yup Daigo is a scrub for saying it's harder for better players to prove they are better. I got you.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Byron Trailer


    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

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  • NupoChromineNupoChromine Art By: Matthew Griffin Joined: Posts: 3,858
    vFiokiK.jpg

    Within the dream, he stayed.

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  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,328
    How many nobodies gonna leave their mark on the front page even though they never post here :coffee:
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,513
    And the cycle begins anew.....
  • RugalitarianRugalitarian B-tier for Beautiful Joined: Posts: 3,708
    edited April 18
    @CHNchilla89 yeah he is mad good. Asked for another set after the tournament. Tell him I said what's up
    all chun liz moevs go thru vegz
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,903
    edited April 18
    DevilJin wrote:
    All of these analogies don't really relate that well to SF or fighting games in general because they are quite different strategically and what is important to do or know.

    Nonsense, I can do the exact same thing and create a fighting game that practice removes all skill from deciding who wins and who doesn't.

    Let's say we take SF5 and make it so randomly 5 seconds into the game one of the two players is KOed instantly and it is random decided. Would you tell me Knuckle Du can consistently beat players like he does now in a game like that?

    If a game like that can feasibly exist then it stands to reason that there is a sliding scale in terms of games that has an extreme discrimination of skill and one where marginal differences are barely noticeable.

    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • unofficialdocumentunofficialdocument Hey, you! Joined: Posts: 1,095
    TWINBLADES wrote: »
    OH SHIT SAGAT TRAILER!!!!

    That'd ruin my day for sure.
    Stay golden, my friend!
  • A10metalA10metal Joined: Posts: 1,715
    YO yall see the Feurte trailer
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Ibuki and Juri BUFFZ Joined: Posts: 53,437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 18
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    DevilJin wrote:
    All of these analogies don't really relate that well to SF or fighting games in general because they are quite different strategically and what is important to do or know.

    Nonsense, I can do the exact same thing and create a fighting game that practice removes all skill from deciding who wins and who doesn't.

    Let's say we take SF5 and make it so randomly 5 seconds into the game one of the two players is KOed instantly and it is random decided. Would you tell me Knuckle Du can consistently beat players like he does now in a game like that?

    If a game like that can feasibly exist then it stands to reason that there is a sliding scale in terms of games that has an extreme discrimination of skill and one where marginal differences are barely noticeable.

    I mean to say that there's no point to do stupid analogies like that outside of fighting games when you can just create stuff within fighting games. Even better, just pick from stuff that has already existed.


    Let's get away from extremely theoretical crap and just take like Smash Brawl into consideration. The game has "tripping" which randomly makes the opponent fall over and put themselves in danger of taking damage. This has the issue of making results a little bit more random, yet is it completely justifiable to say that all of those playing Melee are doing so because they know they would stand less of a chance in Brawl? Could there not be a way for those players to adapt considering Brawl had its own top players?



    Marvel 3 has had XF, TAC infinites and other crazy things, yet it's been extremely hard for anyone named Justin Wong or near Justin Wong's skill level to win Evo in the game any way. Fighting games always work where a defined meta becomes extremely specific so that different people will inevitably become some of the best, but the previous best can still clearly be the best if they need to be.

    Chris G has also been placing nearly as well or better in SFV than he was in SFIV and he basically created playing defensively for consistency in UMVC3 (Viscant created it in Vanilla). A game clearly much harder to stop chaos in than SFV.

    Kunoichi is always in V Trigger

    BUFF CITY.  Population IBUKI


    SFV: Ibuki (Main Bae), Juri (Buffed Bae), Chun Li (Needs Buffs Bae)

    KOF XIV: Nakoruru/Iori/KDash

    SFIV: Nobody hate that shit (PROTIP: Everyone on SRK hates SFIV)

    3S: Ibuki (main), Alex

    If I ever pick up Xrd: Johnny

    PSN: PervyJin01

    CFN: PervyJin01 (PS4) Twitch: c88deviljin01

  • Reason4UReason4U Joined: Posts: 4,681
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    You: Game is easy so pros lose

    Me: Naw, I haven't see Joe win. Still same guys different game
    You: Naw I'm not saying that about SFV I'm just saying it's easier now.
    Me: Okay but that doesn't change anything, pros still win
    You: Dude you aren't getting what I'm saying, I'm saying the game is eazieeeer
    Me: ...... I know..... I'm just saying the pros are still winning because it's easier for everyone....
    You: I can't react to EX SB this game a shit!!!!
    Me: The fuck

    Yup Daigo is a scrub for saying it's harder for better players to prove they are better. I got you.

    What the fuck are you even talking about?

    How did you get that from his post?

    You ain't SHIT Wesker!!! - Dormmammu
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  • RugalitarianRugalitarian B-tier for Beautiful Joined: Posts: 3,708


    GET THIS MAN 700 KRUSTY BURGERS
    all chun liz moevs go thru vegz
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,328
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    DevilJin wrote:
    All of these analogies don't really relate that well to SF or fighting games in general because they are quite different strategically and what is important to do or know.

    Nonsense, I can do the exact same thing and create a fighting game that practice removes all skill from deciding who wins and who doesn't.

    Let's say we take SF5 and make it so randomly 5 seconds into the game one of the two players is KOed instantly and it is random decided. Would you tell me Knuckle Du can consistently beat players like he does now in a game like that?

    If a game like that can feasibly exist then it stands to reason that there is a sliding scale in terms of games that has an extreme discrimination of skill and one where marginal differences are barely noticeable.

    What the fuck
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin - And Probably Menat :P
    Tekken 7: Katarina Alves/Master Raven
    Rev 2: Elphelt
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
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  • Darc RequiemDarc Requiem The Light Emitting Darkness Joined: Posts: 7,448
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    You: Game is easy so pros lose

    Me: Naw, I haven't see Joe win. Still same guys different game

    You: Naw I'm not saying that about SFV I'm just saying it's easier now.

    Me: Okay but that doesn't change anything, pros still win

    You: Dude you aren't getting what I'm saying, I'm saying the game is eazieeeer

    Me: ...... I know..... I'm just saying the pros are still winning because it's easier for everyone....

    You: I can't react to EX SB this game a shit!!!!


    Me: The fuck

    Yup Daigo is a scrub for saying it's harder for better players to prove they are better. I got you.

    I really don't think you two are talking about the same thing.
  • Dime_xDime_x Wasting time Joined: Posts: 9,747
    Lol, game is hard and game is easy aren't necessarily conflicting statements. Same as "it's easy to get laid" and "it's hard to get laid" don't necessarily conflict when there is added information such as:

    "It's easy to get laid when you pay"

    "It's hard to get laid when you are ugly have no game and won't pay"

    With chess "the game is easy" to learn.

    "The game is hard" to master.

    Sf5 is a game where it's easy to play dumb/use beginner tactics and strategies and hard to stop people from playing dumb and winning with beginner tactics and strategies.

    This doesn't mean tha better players won't win more. It means that there percentage of winning is lower and that skill gaps across the board have been artificially condensed, not by making players better, but by lowering the bar of knowledge and skill needed to do well, while leaving certain skilled aspects completely out of reach.


    It goes back to what I said months ago. The game shits on intermediates and placates beginners. It turns beginners into intermediates in a very small amount of time, while making it harder to jump the gap from higher level intermediate to expert. The primary thing needed to go from higher level intermediate to expert is a combination of smart play and super fast reactions. Higher level intermediates will have the smart play but not the reactions, so they get stuck against the new beginners turned intermediate that play dumb but are hard to stop.

    This process basically repeats itself all through the various skill abilities.

    The difference is that in past streetfighters it's a lot easier to stop people from doing dumb things, which forces a smarter game in general at all levels of reactive skill save for the absolute lowest.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NupoChromineNupoChromine Art By: Matthew Griffin Joined: Posts: 3,858
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?
    Within the dream, he stayed.

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  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,425
    FOOTSIES!

    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 9,938
    edited April 18
    I think the easier thing is kinda subjective. People still gotta put in work. Calling it easier is kind of insulting to those who are putting the work in.

    That said, a lot of the traditional sf shit is a lot less important. This game is just very different.

    Unless we're talking combos or whatever. Cant argue there.
  • A10metalA10metal Joined: Posts: 1,715
    edited April 18
    ribu wrote: »
    Was looking to see how many trailers SF4 did for upcoming characters... And forgot about the godlike Hakan trailer they did:

    Hakan reminds me of how weak Ken is, Ken is thinking is slowing down his fights for his family. Hakan though, 7 kids, hotter wife, has a business to run, good skin, handsome. Ken's game weak af
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,903
    edited April 18
    I mean to say that there's no point to do stupid analogies like that outside of fighting games when you can just create stuff within fighting games. Even better, just pick from stuff that has already existed.

    No there is a point. I'm trying to point out that the idea that "skill always wins out" is a naive idea. I can always construct a game that completely removes skill from the equation. Not all games are equally as good at determining who is the best player.
    Let's get away from extremely theoretical crap and just take like Smash Brawl into consideration. The game has "tripping" which randomly makes the opponent fall over and put themselves in danger of taking damage. This has the issue of making results a little bit more random, yet is it completely justifiable to say that all of those playing Melee are doing so because they know they would stand less of a chance in Brawl? Could there not be a way for those players to adapt considering Brawl had its own top players?

    Marvel 3 has had XF, TAC infinites and other crazy things, yet it's been extremely hard for anyone named Justin Wong or near Justin Wong's skill level to win Evo in the game any way. Fighting games always work where a defined meta becomes extremely specific so that different people will inevitably become some of the best, but the previous best can still clearly be the best if they need to be.

    Actually Marvel 3 is the prime example of what I am talking about. Prior to the tournament format going to 3 out of 5 (which helps control the randomness) top players or even top local players were losing randomly. That was a common occurrence.

    In fact that's a perfect example of why some games can be a problem.

    Think about it this way. If we played a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors is there any skill in there or is it completely random? Well in that case, there is some skill. If I know how you think I can predict with a higher chance what option you will use. But if I am playing someone I've never played before, how am I going to know how he thinks? Well if he follows a pattern I've seen before that might be one way to do it, but if I've never seen his way of thinking before I have zero chance of predicting what he is going to do. That is, until I play him several times.

    If we were to play 100 games of Rock/Paper/Scissors I would have some time to try out ideas and test him to see if I can figure him out. As time goes on I have a better chance of doing so. But the key is, we have to play enough games that I can establish a pattern. If we were just to play 2 out of 3 the chances of me figuring it out are extremely low.

    Marvel 3 followed the same concept. When it was 2 out of 3 it was stupid easy to lose to some incoming set up you never saw before especially in Vanilla where Air X-Factor wasn't a thing yet. And that's why early on results were much less consistent than they are now. For games with a high volatility, you need more games to stabilize the results. Which is also why I hated Mika in Season 1 because she played exactly like this. In a long set where I had time to try stuff I could figure out most Mika players. In short sets they were dangerous as fuck since a few wrong guesses and I was done.

    That's why, as a matter of fact, Daigo said because SF5 is a simple game that is a lot more read based he wishes it was always 3 out 5 so that way you have time to figure out your opponent.

    Games like Poker are a great example as well where the top players usually win, it's still very common to see a top player lose because the river card totally fucked them even though they played the hand perfectly.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,903
    edited April 18
    Reason4U wrote: »
    What the fuck are you even talking about?

    How did you get that from his post?

    Because he's mocking (with a pretty bad straw man no less) me for stating the exact same opinion as Daigo. So therefore Daigo is a scrub.

    Nothing I said hasn't been said by a top player. They've said both in person and in public that it's much harder to come out on top consistently in the game.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,328
    FOOTSIES!


    I would have lit a stadium on fire if I had to deal with that for seven years.
    SFV: Cammy/Kolin - And Probably Menat :P
    Tekken 7: Katarina Alves/Master Raven
    Rev 2: Elphelt
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
    PSN: CARBON465
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,401
    Dime_x wrote: »
    It means that there percentage of winning is lower and that skill gaps across the board have been artificially condensed, not by making players better, but by lowering the bar of changing the knowledge and skill needed to do well, while leaving certain skilled different aspects completely out of reach.

    I changed some things to reflect my personal opinion. I do agree with you that SFV has some mechanics that act as gatekeepers to higher level gameplay, but I feel that this has always been a thing that existed in SF. The main difference is that the gate used to keep beginners from getting to intermediate level. Not it keeps intermediates from getting to high level. People who used to be able to make the cut aren't good enough anymore, and they can't/won't adapt. It sucks for those dudes, but this is probably better for SF as a franchise and the FGC as a whole. Make the tent bigger so more people can enjoy the game. If some old geezers don't like it they can always revive USF4.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,668
    I dunno. Something about SF5 doesnt feel nearly as rewarding as previous fighting games I played. Like, it's a lot harder for me to point to benchmarks where I can say "Yeah, I really leveled up as a player here". There's no real drive or incentive to lab it out in prolonged sets like before. Back when Super SF4 was fresh the Sakura players used to get together every week and run 3-4 hours of sets together while voicechatting about what was happening and having a ton of fun. The communities jusf don't seem to be there anymore, all this Esports shit is pushing folks to generally be much bigger assholes and push their "brands" instead of focusing on the community.

    I dunno. Maybe I'm just getting old and this new trend is just the way of the future but I don't really like it.
    CFN: SpitefulBanette
  • EzkimoSamuraiEzkimoSamurai Joined: Posts: 98
    TWINBLADES wrote: »
    How many nobodies gonna leave their mark on the front page even though they never post here :coffee:

    Sup.
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 I need a win button Joined: Posts: 20,617
    The normals SF deserves, but not the ones it needs right now.

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  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,425
    TWINBLADES wrote: »
    FOOTSIES!


    I would have lit a stadium on fire if I had to deal with that for seven years.

    But what about Laura and Ibuki?
    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,903
    TWINBLADES wrote: »
    FOOTSIES!


    I would have lit a stadium on fire if I had to deal with that for seven years.

    That's what a character who could allow bad players to beat good players looked like.
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • Nobus3r1 ver. 2.0Nobus3r1 ver. 2.0 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 4,892
    Completely unrelated to SFV (which is IMO a good thing at this point) but god bless the British:
    House of Bane
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  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,328
    I wonder if people are blinded by their rage over the "lack" of OS and 1f links to see that there's plenty to learn?

    Maybe it's because I'm new but I don't see how this game lacks any sort of reward.


    Unless you mean grinding out 1f links to some unoptimimal combo because muh style.


    I just wanna play the fucking game and win lol


    SFV: Cammy/Kolin - And Probably Menat :P
    Tekken 7: Katarina Alves/Master Raven
    Rev 2: Elphelt
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
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  • pootnanniespootnannies addicted to bad things Joined: Posts: 3,068
    i saw someone posting about how they don't see SFV as "reckless play". well when you have really bad defensive options, short normals, and hardly any pushback... yes you can be incredibly reckless. reckless doesn't mean more creative options though. that's up to the developers. you only really have a few options for meaties or setups and that's that. short normals and tons of ways around fireballs = rushdown city. hey your hard kick or punch was blocked? no problem, most characters can't punish it or it's actually plus on block. hey that special that takes you across the screen got blocked? no worries bro it's -2 or +2 on block.

    reckless in SFV now means something different in comparison to other SF games. in SF4 you could be reckless with your defensive options. in 5 it's the opposite.
    visit the HD Sprite Thread- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/hi-def-sprite-thread-first-post-updated-1-9.32449/

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  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,328
    I agree with Loyalsol on the "harder to figure out a bad player" thing. When the percentage of dumb low risk high reward moves being quite high it's really hard to decipher if you're playing someone that knows or doesn't know the game well. It's just like what I was saying about online habits, it's very hard to figure out if they are deliberately playing one way because of the environment or if they genuinely don't know.

    I played a set with a Bison player and it took me until about the 4th or 5th game to figure out he didn't know frame data and was taking massive risks continually because I thought he might have just been out reading me a lot - nope - he was just bad and after my conversation he straight up said to me the only way to win is to be random and that SF5 has no footsies so there's no point.

    From a personal standpoint too, I know people from SF4 that you would classify as low level ( extremely bad fundamentals and more guess based - blocked special move - Ultra type thing) that are all of a sudden a lot better in SF5. Illitirate had a really good post on this, I'll see if I can dig it out.

    I mean Capcoms own design team even said the point of SF5 was to narrow the skill gap. That's the design goal of the game.

    They may be allot better in a new game but that doesn't really make the game bad.


    What was even considered good in SF4?

    4K? 8K?


    SFV: Cammy/Kolin - And Probably Menat :P
    Tekken 7: Katarina Alves/Master Raven
    Rev 2: Elphelt
    CFN: TWINBLADES [The "i" in TWINBLADES is actually a lowercase L]
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  • A10metalA10metal Joined: Posts: 1,715
    FOOTSIES!


    Beautiful
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,668
    As an addendum, people shit on SF4 XBL (and rightfully so in many aspects) but the extreme ease of use it offered in terms of messaging, chatting and adding friends, and sending invites did a lot to foster a community, as haphazard as it might have been. I feel like SFV is more of a collection of individuals floating around and drifitng into each other randomly.
    CFN: SpitefulBanette
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