The SSJ5 General Thread: E3 happening but Ono doesn't Spirit Bomb

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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Too Many Waifus Joined: Posts: 20,886
    @DevilJin 01 Do you think Ibuki would be a decent secondary for Cammy? Thinking of giving her another shot...

    How do you think she fares against Zangief?
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  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,668
    The AE2012 Tier List thread was the best times I've had on this site. Somehow I became a trusted source for Makoto matchup knowledge, don't ask me how that happened.
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 8,747
    @DevilJin 01 Do you think Ibuki would be a decent replacement for Cammy? Thinking of giving her another shot...

    Fixed.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 PRAISED BEEF Joined: Posts: 54,558 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 18
    @DevilJin 01 Do you think Ibuki would be a decent secondary for Cammy? Thinking of giving her another shot...

    How do you think she fares against Zangief?

    Ibuki would be a decent secondary for Cammy if you want to have a little bit easier of a time vs Season 2.1 Guile. Her setplay will be better for getting in and staying in on Guile than Cammy who has good anti projectile tools, but can't stick to people on a correct decision as well as Ibuki.

    Other than that I don't think there's any strategic reason to use Ibuki along with Cammy. Cammy does well enough vs Gief and Ibuki doesn't really do anything better vs Gief than Cammy other than be able to pressure him better on a knockdown. Neutrally I feel Cammy is a better pick vs Gief and you won't need to play the close game as often vs him when he's sitting on super. There's probably some extra target strings to learn to blow up his armor and such, but generally it just seems safer to play Cammy vs Gief than Ibuki.




    That's why I like Ibuki and Juri as a good combo since Ibuki covers neutral decently in a good amount of matchups and is very hard to lame out once she gets going. There's just certain matchups where she doesn't get a lot of reward for playing a range game where I would prefer to. Which then Juri covers that in a very interesting way as there's characters like Nash, Birdie, Gief, Sim, Guile etc that Ibuki can just rush down and win, or I can switch to Juri and just play a range game. Basically the idea is to find space to charge level 2 V Skill as so much of what is annoying about those characters is shut down once you charge level 2 V Skill. Level 2 charge is a really really good move that stops a lot of ranged get in and bullying techniques and slows down fireball games. The V Skill gives me a way of commanding how people approach me that I honestly couldn't even do with Season 1 Chun.


    Otherwise like Ocean tried to point to. Either play Ibuki or play Cammy as far as strategy is concerned. Using both would be just out of liking to play as both characters and wouldn't add much strategically.

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  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark "I'm not soft like Goku!" Joined: Posts: 6,541
    The AE2012 Tier List thread was the best times I've had on this site. Somehow I became a trusted source for Makoto matchup knowledge, don't ask me how that happened.

    I remember reading the Makoto improvement thread whenever I felt salty. Made me feel better about myself.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Too Many Waifus Joined: Posts: 20,886
    edited April 18
    snip

    Argh. I wanna try to find a secondary for Cammy but I'm having a hard time choosing. Doesn't really feel like Cammy has any match-ups that warrant using a secondary...but I like playing two characters that complement each other in some way.

    Maybe it could work in a kind of "switch styles on the fly" kind of deal, for more of a vs player rather than vs character...I dunno. At this point I think I should just grind out more matches with Cammy/Juri/Ibuki instead of constantly theory fighting. I'm way, way behind on practice as it is...
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  • NupoChromineNupoChromine Art By: Matthew Griffin Joined: Posts: 4,136
    edited April 18
    snip

    Choose FANG as your secondary.
    Within the dream, he stayed.

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  • Nobus3r1 ver. 2.0Nobus3r1 ver. 2.0 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,034
    snip

    Argh. I wanna try to find a secondary for Cammy but I'm having a hard time choosing. Doesn't really feel like Cammy has any match-ups that warrant using a secondary...but I like playing two characters that complement each other in some way.

    Maybe it could work in a kind of "switch styles on the fly" kind of deal, for more of a vs player rather than vs character...I dunno. At this point I think I should just grind out more matches with Cammy/Juri/Ibuki instead of constantly theory fighting. I'm way, way behind on practice as it is...
    In theory the goal of a secondary is (usually) to cover the bad matchups for your primary. Since you're playing a character that doesn't seem to have any aggressively bad matchups to worry about I would suggest that instead you look at a character that just plays differently than Cammy so that a counter-pick with the secondary would be more based on the type of player you've run into. To that end I would suggest you pick between Laura, Mika, Zangief and maybe Rashid.
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  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    Argh. I wanna try to find a secondary for Cammy but I'm having a hard time choosing.

    Cammy has access to everything in her toolset except a command-grab and a projectile, so you should pick a character that has either one. Maybe Guile would be good because he's so defensive compared to Cammy's rushdown.
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  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,904
    They don't even give explanations. They just assume you know Guile and Rog are good. They know.

    Proof you don't need to know anything about the game to win with Balrog. ;)
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 3,998
    LoyalSol wrote: »
    They don't even give explanations. They just assume you know Guile and Rog are good. They know.

    Proof you don't need to know anything about the game to win with Balrog. ;)

    you need to know how to press HP+HK
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    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • javertjavert 'sup Joined: Posts: 1,150
    Watching this tournament convinced me that the state of DPs is good as they are now. Never witnessed a situation or overall feeling of "damn this offense is so damn oppressive the characters have no choice but dedicating all their meter just to revert back to neutral". The ones it happened the most where Necalli players who used sparingly, sometimes getting out but other times getting CC's for their troubles. On the other side chances to face a meterless Guile are rare enough no time should be wasted to mount an offensive. Would be a bitch to face a wall like that with an actual DP unless you are Balrog and that cure is as bad as the disease.

    Gonna miss this aspect of the patch. At least HP DPs will be losing to throws so slam dunk loops will still be a thing.
  • BillBill Joined: Posts: 1,258
    This thread brushes over her but it's amazing how good Karin is. Easily top 5 with her incredible normals,strangely high damage, excellent mobility and lack of bad matchups. You really can't do much vs a competent Karin.
  • GamogoGamogo Common sense isn't. Joined: Posts: 2,855
    Quark wrote: »
    you need to know how to press HP+HK

    No you don't.

    You can bind that to a single button.
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  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 6,785
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)
  • unofficialdocumentunofficialdocument Hey, you! Joined: Posts: 1,379
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.
    Stay golden, my friend!
  • TWINBLADESTWINBLADES ON YOUR KNEES!!!! Joined: Posts: 7,855
    YorKeY wrote: »
    eh the first two SFV general threads were fun, the one that just happened I barely had any part of, can't say I was connected to it at all.

    The first ever USF4 general lounge was fucking fun though!

    And yet your ass is gonna be here till page 500 like a good little cuck :giggle:
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  • javertjavert 'sup Joined: Posts: 1,150
    I'd rather put him to rest and have Ra's Al Ghul or Vandal Savage instead.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 6,785
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.

    bah nuts to joker, for a while I thought they had the balls to not include him. Its telling enough hes not officially announced and nobody actually seems to care, he was hands down the worst character in the game for the lifespan of inj1 and has no place in the story either to boot unless they really want to abuse the lazarus pit bullshit hard.
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 3,998
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.

    bah nuts to joker, for a while I thought they had the balls to not include him. Its telling enough hes not officially announced and nobody actually seems to care, he was hands down the worst character in the game for the lifespan of inj1 and has no place in the story either to boot unless they really want to abuse the lazarus pit bullshit hard.

    I may have only played I1 ultra casually but joker was still my guy :(

    if he comes back I might have to choose him over scarecrow
    "Please understand, I never had a secret chart
    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • unofficialdocumentunofficialdocument Hey, you! Joined: Posts: 1,379
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.

    bah nuts to joker, for a while I thought they had the balls to not include him. Its telling enough hes not officially announced and nobody actually seems to care, he was hands down the worst character in the game for the lifespan of inj1 and has no place in the story either to boot unless they really want to abuse the lazarus pit bullshit hard.

    But I mained him...

    Pretty much every main I love ends up sucking nuts.
    Stay golden, my friend!
  • YorKeYYorKeY No need to respect tier whores, but please, respect the top tier characters they are using. - York Joined: Posts: 6,630
    https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2017/apr/17/whoever-designed-balrog-street-fighter-5-stupid-bonchan-doesnt-hate-sf5-thinks-it-needs-some-big-improvements/


    read that article title, it's like even pro Japanese players are afraid to say game is ass, come on Bonchan! Fuck the status quo! Keepo

    I bet were gonna go another month without a new character, or even announcement by the end of this month.
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  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 6,785
    edited April 18
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.

    bah nuts to joker, for a while I thought they had the balls to not include him. Its telling enough hes not officially announced and nobody actually seems to care, he was hands down the worst character in the game for the lifespan of inj1 and has no place in the story either to boot unless they really want to abuse the lazarus pit bullshit hard.

    But I mained him...

    Pretty much every main I love ends up sucking nuts.
    Quark wrote: »
    @Evil Canadian

    Who else does NRS have to show off? Or is Darkseid the only one left?

    2 official slots left are Darkseid and "unannounced mystery character"(joker)

    An Injustice without Joker is an injustice in of itself.

    bah nuts to joker, for a while I thought they had the balls to not include him. Its telling enough hes not officially announced and nobody actually seems to care, he was hands down the worst character in the game for the lifespan of inj1 and has no place in the story either to boot unless they really want to abuse the lazarus pit bullshit hard.

    I may have only played I1 ultra casually but joker was still my guy :(

    if he comes back I might have to choose him over scarecrow

    Well I very much expect Joker to be like Wonder Woman in that he's gonna get a full character revamp. Guys like Supes and Batman were already good so they got a bunch of new animations to make older moves look nicer and a few proper new moves and overall shine of polish. Joker was just fucking wretched though no amount of shine to that pile can make it work he just needs a new moveset.
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,554
    Pertho wrote: »
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    I think EWGF is the worst example of a flashy move variation, because it's a move shared by all the "main" characters of Tekken and they're all balanced around it. It would be like if Ryu had Seismo chains. Namco should have kept the just-frames to the more obscure characters.

    Imagine a world where all the relevant moves a character has are Just Frame. Namco did this; his name is Alpha Patroklos. The character legitimately doesn't really work without any of the 5-6 Just Frames you need to learn.

    I will never run out of bad things to say about Just Frame moves. Everything about them is idiotic since the numbers of times you want the non-JF version of that move is usually around 5% of the time. So you have to create the muscle memory and then every once in a long while remind yourself to fuck up inputting it so you get the thing you need.

    Dumb.

    Seeing how they introduced special bars and EX moves to the series, i still wonder why they keep the fuckery of just frames instead of making those moves Ex moves.
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  • JeromJerom Joined: Posts: 827
    Id buy USF2 if it was on pc and was no more than $20 and had decent online. And had crossplay. And wasnt shit
    CFN: Jeromy
    gief
  • crash_and_burncrash_and_burn "Do I drive? Or am I driven?" Joined: Posts: 2,883
    Jerom wrote: »
    Id buy USF2 if it was on pc and was no more than $20 and had decent online. And had crossplay. And wasnt shit

    Same here, if it was on PS4. Those remixes are almost complete ass, though. And no CPS1 soundtrack? I noticed in the new trailer they don't show if the flames fools burst into from Violent Ken are still orange. Probably because they are. Utter laziness.
  • WindalfrWindalfr Moe is cancer Joined: Posts: 1,789
    anyone want to play some sets?
  • zektbackzektback Joined: Posts: 353
    Are Vreversals becoming useless? I mean they either get thrown or are blocked since everything is almost safe.
  • FrozteyFroztey That British Dude Joined: Posts: 8,216
    I lost my Civ V game :(
  • unofficialdocumentunofficialdocument Hey, you! Joined: Posts: 1,379
    Froztey wrote: »
    I lost my Civ V game :(
    Play Danganronpa
    Stay golden, my friend!
  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,904
    zektback wrote: »
    Are Vreversals becoming useless? I mean they either get thrown or are blocked since everything is almost safe.

    Or OSed. Top Laura and Gief players have OSes that only come out if you V-Reversal
    Under stress you will not rise to your expectations, you will fall to your level of training.
  • Za FuuruZa Fuuru Joined: Posts: 183
    V-Reversals are a bit too slow, but they are useful against medium and heavy attacks. You have to know frame data very well, in this game, because many normals are + on block and backdashes are useless.

    They tried to sell the game to casuals, but they failed because without knowing frame data of your opponent you get destroyed in 10 seconds.
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 6,785
    Froztey wrote: »
    I lost my Civ V game :(

    Well you should play civ 4 or civ 6 as both are completely superior games.

    But if you gotta play civ 5, do something stupid like pick carthage and abuse early harbours or be greece and use hellenic league to break the game over your knee as you own every city state easily and rake in a billion bonuses.
  • ZenisideZeniside Joined: Posts: 2,986
    Za Fuuru wrote: »
    V-Reversals are a bit too slow, but they are useful against medium and heavy attacks. You have to know frame data very well, in this game, because many normals are + on block and backdashes are useless.

    They tried to sell the game to casuals, but they failed because without knowing frame data of your opponent you get destroyed in 10 seconds.

    V-reversals are practically worthless against Cammy's medium attacks. Lets give her a st.mp that has the recovery of a jab and +3 on block and leads to a heavy.
  • ToreyBeansToreyBeans I'mma make u buy me lunch later! Joined: Posts: 706
  • RAW_GutsRAW_Guts Joined: Posts: 703
    When is the Alex trailer!?
  • QuarkQuark Joined: Posts: 3,998
    edited April 18
    Za Fuuru wrote: »
    V-Reversals are a bit too slow, but they are useful against medium and heavy attacks. You have to know frame data very well, in this game, because many normals are + on block and backdashes are useless.

    backdashes are not useless

    unless by "useless" you mean not as good as in sf4
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    To get me to the heart of this or any other matter"
  • RAW_GutsRAW_Guts Joined: Posts: 703
    Za Fuuru wrote: »
    V-Reversals are a bit too slow, but they are useful against medium and heavy attacks. You have to know frame data very well, in this game, because many normals are + on block and backdashes are useless.

    They tried to sell the game to casuals, but they failed because without knowing frame data of your opponent you get destroyed in 10 seconds.

    We saw a lot of successful backdashes in the top 8 of NCR work out favorably for the defensive end. I would not say they are useless.
  • bisonatorbisonator Joined: Posts: 593
    Switch master race. Rise up or get left behind
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte Joined: Posts: 1,007
    Windalfr wrote: »
    anyone want to play some sets?

    I'm down


  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,297
    edited April 18
    zektback wrote: »
    Are Vreversals becoming useless? I mean they either get thrown or are blocked since everything is almost safe.

    I think they are still good as attacking tools to keep your position especially if you are near the corner and want to keep them in there. A lot of people still use V-reversal as a "get the fuck off of me" tool when I've noticed a lot of the better players use it more like "no - You're not taking your turn back yet" when a sequence ends but you want to still keep the pressure on. Mago was also V-reversal-ling peoples V-reversal.
    RAW_Guts wrote: »
    Za Fuuru wrote: »
    V-Reversals are a bit too slow, but they are useful against medium and heavy attacks. You have to know frame data very well, in this game, because many normals are + on block and backdashes are useless.

    They tried to sell the game to casuals, but they failed because without knowing frame data of your opponent you get destroyed in 10 seconds.

    We saw a lot of successful backdashes in the top 8 of NCR work out favorably for the defensive end. I would not say they are useless.

    Indeed. Bonchan in particular I noticed was getting air reset a lot on wake up which is much less damaging than taking the full combo, it's like a compromise almost, take a little damage and get out. I spent a lot of time watching how the top players were defending situations at NCR since I think my knock down defence is poor.
  • WindalfrWindalfr Moe is cancer Joined: Posts: 1,789
    MochaLatte wrote: »
    Windalfr wrote: »
    anyone want to play some sets?

    I'm down


    gonna run a quick ft5 with someone else then I'll invite you
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte Joined: Posts: 1,007
    Windalfr wrote: »
    MochaLatte wrote: »
    Windalfr wrote: »
    anyone want to play some sets?

    I'm down


    gonna run a quick ft5 with someone else then I'll invite you

    k sounds good
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,261
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    I think EWGF is the worst example of a flashy move variation, because it's a move shared by all the "main" characters of Tekken and they're all balanced around it. It would be like if Ryu had Seismo chains. Namco should have kept the just-frames to the more obscure characters.

    I just think EWGF is bad design, period. When a move is so hard that even 20 year Tekken veterans routinely miss the input, but in return the move is the best move in the game by far when you do hit the input, you've made some questionable design choices. Artificial execution barriers at their finest.
  • Za FuuruZa Fuuru Joined: Posts: 183
    Zeniside wrote: »
    V-reversals are practically worthless against Cammy's medium attacks.
    Well of course there are exceptions, thank you Mr Obvious. Basically V-Rversals depend on frame data so you have to know it. They are not useless overall
    Quark wrote: »
    backdashes are not useless
    We were talking about V-Reversals and pressure, right? Of course backdash is useful when you guess right and your opponent goes for a throw, but against hits (and we were talking about hits, not throws) they are useless. I don't see many backdashes used when who defends has to deal with pressure and + on block normal spam.
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