Street Fighter the Movie Broke My Heart

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  • True GraveTrue Grave Keepaway Specialist Joined: Posts: 3,554
    Thanks for all of the information Anoon. Take a bow man, great thread!

    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

    I copy & paste that sentiment :wonder:
    "Power without perception, is spiritually useless and therefore of no true value"
  • DangiefDangief The Noogieman Joined: Posts: 374
    Seriously, this is the best thread to ever come out of SRK. You get a cookie.
    Da Bole knows.
  • EVAWINGZEROEVAWINGZERO Slacktivismist Extraordinaire Joined: Posts: 2,229
    Amazing

    This thread has been amazing, and even inspired me to finally get my mame arcade up and running, i even got a SFTM:TG Marquee for 9$...... Thanks for getting me back into Arcade Gaming Anoon!
    [TMNTTF - Leonardo]
    [Donkey Kong - Jumpman]
    [UMVC3 - A Button, B Button, C Button + S]
    [MK9 - Scorpion, Freddy Krueger]
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,285
    My xbox runs this game very slowly, but after some changes in the emulator settings I played it for a while (until my emu started crapping out again) and it was a lot different from the console version.

    After reading this thread, that game has taken on much more meaning.

    Thanks.

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This was a freakin cool reading. Thanks!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Anoon,

    Do you think that any of the ideas you and your team brought to the fighting genre were original and hadn't been done before? Were any of them ripped off to become staples for other, more popular games?
  • BBCampbellBBCampbell Busy bein' DELICIOUS Joined: Posts: 514
    Street Fighter EX?

    anoon:

    First off, epic thread. Makes me wish I could have played this more.

    Also, Benny the Jet got cut? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

    Benny the Jet vs. Van Damme FTW!!!

    Anyway, a question for you:

    What's your take on the Street Fighter EX series? I ask because Arika basically did the same thing you did: Produced a unique (and oft misunderstood) spin on a classic fighting series.

    Have you played the series at any length? Which character designs do you like?

    Also, is it just me or are D. Dark and Blade similar in concept?
    Chun-Li: My father saved his village at the cost of his life. You had him shot as you ran away... a hero at a thousand paces.
    Bison: I'm sorry... I don't remember any of it. For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life.
    For me... It was Tuesday...
  • Theycalledhim AlanTheycalledhim Alan Penis Maximus Joined: Posts: 51
    I sincerely forgot this thread was here. Good thing it was stickied.

    Thank you for all the information, it has really been wonderful for all of us to have the opportunity to immerse ourselves in the process of this game and the genre in general.

    From one Alan to another, good work!
    To be inside a vagina is like coming from the freezing cold and mom's baking cookies.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Mr. Alan Noon, thanks for you insights and information! This thread is amazing. :tup:
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • DigitalbootyDigitalbooty Cool but Rude Joined: Posts: 981
    I love this game.
    I'm outi

    -Digitalbootyith
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    Do you think that any of the ideas you and your team brought to the fighting genre were original and hadn't been done before? Were any of them ripped off to become staples for other, more popular games?
    It's really difficult to look back to those days and try to remember where we drew inspiration for everything. There were a TON of fighting games out at the time, all trying to make their mark and stand out of the crowd. Some of the SFTM features were evolutions of things we liked in other games, others stemmed from our own ideas developed as hardcore players. It's nearly impossible for any developer to claim they are totally original. Everything has been done already.

    "Ripped off" is an ugly term. Did we inspire new features that went on to evolve in other titles? I would like to think so, particularly in the Street Fighter franchise, but who can say for sure? I believe I mentioned a few of these things that seem to have deascendents in later SF games such as the Alpha and Vs. series, but I have no proof. The Capcom JP guys were very complimentary concerning a number of our concepts, so I like to think they found some value in our input.
    What's your take on the Street Fighter EX series?Have you played the series at any length? Which character designs do you like? Also, is it just me or are D. Dark and Blade similar in concept?

    I played quite a bit of the first two EX's especially. For me personally, the characters of Street Fighter are one of the big draws to the series. I'm afraid the primitive nature of the hardware at the time meant the technology just couldn't really do the character designs I knew and loved justice. Also, some of the new character designs turned me off. They just didn't feel like they fit in the SF world. (Same issue I have with a number of the SF3 characters, coincidentally.)

    Funny enough, I recently picked up SF EX3 on PS2. The roster seemed a bit better balanced with fresh faces that made sense in relation to the old favorites, but their execution was still lacking; they didn't look good enough for me. The gameplay didn't feel true enough either.

    I was excited when I initially saw screens of Capcom Fighting All Stars (or was it Jam? The two were announced around the same time, and I know I read articles that mixed the names up, so now I am confused myself.) Anyway, I mean the 3D one. I heard it didn't test so well and was shelved, which is a pity.

    I'm still waiting for that 3D fighter, (SF or not,) with gorgeous, realistic graphics and the feel of the solid 2D engine.

    I had not drawn a connection between D.Dark and Blade, honestly. I can't really remember what D.Dark's moves were like. Are they similar?
  • BBCampbellBBCampbell Busy bein' DELICIOUS Joined: Posts: 514
    I had not drawn a connection between D.Dark and Blade, honestly. I can't really remember what D.Dark's moves were like. Are they similar?

    D. Dark had a number of moves where blades came out of his wristguards (Think Baraka from MK2), plus he threw bombs, had a Dragon Punch, and had a number of Scorpion-like moves involving a garrote wire.

    I hadn't really played as Blade much, but I figured in terms of looks they're a little similar.
    Chun-Li: My father saved his village at the cost of his life. You had him shot as you ran away... a hero at a thousand paces.
    Bison: I'm sorry... I don't remember any of it. For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life.
    For me... It was Tuesday...
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The Capcom JP guys were very complimentary concerning a number of our concepts, so I like to think they found some value in our input.

    It's a shame that they seemingly recognized the value of these concepts yet try to disavow knowledge of the game. I mean, I know you got paid and all for your work (I hope :rofl: ) but to have potentially had an impact on the direction of a series, even via a game as shunned as SFTM, and not be acknowledged for it... man, that would suck something fierce.

    I have a few questions:

    1) If asked by Capcom to help in the design of a new Street Fighter right now, this moment, would you do it? Or would you follow the old adage of "once bitten, twice shy?"

    2) What was the feeling of the SFTM game team on potential infinite comboes and other powerful tactics? Was it a goal to eliminate things like this or to embrace them as part of the fighting engine?

    3) If you could take real-life actors today, take 'em back in time, and digitize them for SFTM, who would you pick to play the characters?

    4) You mentioned that, in retrospect, you would have liked to stick closer to the art design of SFTM, and not the mishmash of movie+game that the final product was. Along that same line, would you also have preferred to keep the special moves in place (hadoukens, sonic booms, etc.) or remove them?

    5) Megaman? You serious? :rofl: PLEASE tell me you had someone go through the digitization process for Megaman! Was it a kid? A grown man? Did he have the helmet and everything? Did you get a real dog for Rush?
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    ...seemingly recognized the value of these concepts...
    Again, I don't know for sure. It could all just be wishful thinking on my part, but thanks.
    1) If asked by Capcom to help in the design of a new Street Fighter right now, this moment, would you do it? Or would you follow the old adage of "once bitten, twice shy?"
    In a heart beat. I dream about that all of the time. I still love the SF series and with the technology that is available right now, some pretty amazing things could be done.
    2) What was the feeling of the SFTM game team on potential infinite comboes and other powerful tactics? Was it a goal to eliminate things like this or to embrace them as part of the fighting engine?

    Speaking for myself, I didn't want any combos longer than 3-4 hits. Other team member(s) wanted more hits. Nobody wanted infinites though. If for nothing else, if a player could combo indefinitely, we'd never get another quarter in the drop. If memory serves, even if the timer ran out, as long as you kept the enemy from touching the ground you could continue playing forever. I can't remember if this "grounding" system was changed, or if the moves and reactions were changed so that the players were forced far enough apart so that it was impossible to continually keep somebody afloat. I believe it was the latter. I specifically remember playtesting and scoring a 140+ hit combo with E.Honda. I could have gone on forever, as the timer had long expired, but I got bored. When I showed this to the programmers, the next rev featured a sumo head butt that fell further away from the enemy on impact.
    3) If you could take real-life actors today, take 'em back in time, and digitize them for SFTM, who would you pick to play the characters?
    Hmmm... I haven't really though about that. Digitized graphics for anything other than reference material or the basis of texture work are pretty dead in my mind these days. A few off the top of my head:

    -Ken: Christian Bale. Even though Ken is technically Japanese, everyone thinks he's American anyway, so I choose Bale. This guy is an incredible actor that can transform himself physically for any role. (Check out what he did to himself for "The Machinist" and compare it to his form for "Batman Begins" shortly after.)

    -Ryu: John Cho? (Harold from "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.") I don't know what kind of shape he's in, but if he could bulk up with 20-30lbs of muscle and had some amount of martial arts training, I think it could work.

    -Chun Li: Zhang Ziyi. She's an accomplished martial artist and quite beautiful.

    -Cammy: Elisha Cuthbert? Not sure if she can fight or not, but she'd look the part.

    -Zangief: Andrew Bryniarski. (The guy from the original movie. He was an awesome fit.)

    -Blanka: Danny Trejo. This dude is a pretty scary looking individual naturally. And he's got the accent.

    -T.Hawk: The Rock. Dude is huge, in amazing shape, and very physical.
    4) You mentioned that, in retrospect, you would have liked to stick closer to the art design of SFTM, and not the mishmash of movie+game that the final product was. Along that same line, would you also have preferred to keep the special moves in place (hadoukens, sonic booms, etc.) or remove them?
    Good question. The movie didn't really feature any special moves other than unflashy versions of Guile's flash kick, a lame dragon punch by Ken, a hadoken-esque move by Ryu, and Bison flying superman style across stage on wires... Even so, I would still keep the traditional SF specials and related effects in. I don't think you can have a real SF game without Specials that are, umm.. special.
    5) Megaman? You serious? PLEASE tell me you had someone go through the digitization process for Megaman! Was it a kid? A grown man? Did he have the helmet and everything? Did you get a real dog for Rush?
    The Megaman idea didn't go too far. It was included in a couple of documents, and discussed briefly around the office, but we never got so far as to design or to have a costume made. There was talk that we'd get a young kid to play him.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I always thought sf the movie was gay
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks for the replies, Mr. Noon! Good stuff. :tup:
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    -Ryu: John Cho? (Harold from "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.")
    Seriously? I guess I could see that for a Street Fighter Alpha "young" Ryu. John Cho has a baby face and doesn't look "rough" from excessive training at all. And he doesn't really seem to fit parallel to Christian Bale.

    That's assuming you'd really go with Christian Bale. Bale seems more of an introverted "dark" type. I would think that if you're picking an American and you can afford him, then George Clooney would fit the part. He's much more extroverted, lighthearted, and cocky (I can just imagine Clooney doing Ken's win poses and taunts). He's also got the ridiculous eyebrows. All he'd need is a blond wig and a karate gi.
    Let's play.
  • AlecAlec SD REMIX Joined: Posts: 170
    Oh man, I remember when Street Fighter The Movie The Game first came out. There was a really big crowd around it. It was good fun, lots of zany combos. I think it was right next to a Cyberbots cabinet too, it was the only time I ever seen Cyberbots until I recently got the Saturn version. I don't think I played that one, but spent a LOT of time playing The Movie The Game.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Casting
    5) Megaman? You serious? :rofl: PLEASE tell me you had someone go through the digitization process for Megaman! Was it a kid? A grown man? Did he have the helmet and everything? Did you get a real dog for Rush?

    For some reason, I can never picture this going well... :rofl:

    Megaman04.jpg
    -Ken: Christian Bale. Even though Ken is technically Japanese, everyone thinks he's American anyway, so I choose Bale. This guy is an incredible actor that can transform himself physically for any role. (Check out what he did to himself for "The Machinist" and compare it to his form for "Batman Begins" shortly after.)

    You know, it'd odd that you should bring up Christian Bale. He's my favorite actor of all-time, but I couldn't really imagine him playing as a Street Fighter character. I've always noticed some similarities between him and Johnny Cage from the Mortal Kombat series, though, and I feel that he'd be a perfect fit for that.

    And yes, seeing him go from his build in The Machinist to his build in Batman Begins (especially when you consider the short period of time that took place in-between films) was absolutely incredible. Actually, I found it to be a bit disturbing seeing him in The Machinist when I was most familiar with seeing him in American Psycho, especially when you see him exercising in the latter movie. He's barely recognizable in The Machinist. Amazing.

    By the way, amusingly, Christian Bale also assumes the role of his characters off-set, as his trailer is typically marked with the name of his character, not his own name. It's nice to see him always trying to stay in character. :rofl:
    -Chun Li: Zhang Ziyi. She's an accomplished martial artist and quite beautiful.

    Ugh...I respect her as an actress, but you see far too much of her in comparison to other Asian actresses (in the U.S., anyway). I'd actually prefer Maggie Cheung (who played as Flying Snow in Hero).
  • danndann Joined: Posts: 600
    lol. the game about the movie about the game.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Hey, Alan.

    Great thread. It's been nonstop education and entertainment. I've read it since you first posted it, but haven't really had any good questions until one just recently popped into my head.

    Having gone through the process, it sounds like many of the problems you encountered were due to conflicts of interest. It sounded like there were a lot of ideas and concepts bandied about by different people, many of them, it sounds like, not properly shared between all of the people making the game.

    So my question is this: if you had to make a Fighting game now, from scratch, would you recommend having one or two or three guys solely in charge of the design and "concept"? To keep what the game "should" be the responsibility of only a few people? I mean, obviously allow for outside input, but it sounds like one of the things that could have saved SF:TM was someone to keep the game in focus -- have the one guy who makes sure all the ideas flow with each other. Like if you were in charge from the start, then you could have made sure that all the ideas put into the game adhered to one vision, instead of being a mishmash of many visions?

    Again, I wanted to thank you for posting. My idea of SF:TM has drastically changed now. I now look at it with sad eyes, knowing what could have been and how much you put your heart and soul into it.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hahahaha...hey, anoon, with the recent announcement of Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, I'm curious: If Capcom approached you to assist in the making of Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game HD Remix, would you? And, if so, what would you do differently?
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    if you had to make a Fighting game now, from scratch, would you recommend having one or two or three guys solely in charge of the design and "concept"?

    Good question. If I were to make a fighting game today, I would probably structure things a bit differently than we did back then. Also, the main thing I would work on is communication. Looking back, I don't feel that the vision for the game was communicated very well either from the publisher to the team, or amongst the team itself. Estasblishing the vision and getting buy in from eveyone is key.

    In terms of the team structure, there would be the Creative Director; the guy who steers the grand vision and with who the final decisions rest. Working in parallel to him would be the Producer, the guy who maintains the schedule, provides support for the team, and interfaces with the publisher. Following that, I would break the project down by discipline and create Director positions for each, (Art, Animation, Design, Engineering.) Under the directors would be the Leads who are responsible for the major catagories: Fighting systems, AI, Characters, Environments, Special Effects, Physics/collision, Graphics Engine, Tools, etc...
    If Capcom approached you to assist in the making of Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game HD Remix, would you? And, if so, what would you do differently?
    I would jump at the opportunity to work on just about any Street Fighter project. However, I don't think an HD Remix of SFTM would ever happen. Even if the game was not so universally despised, the source materials (if they still exist,) were of such low fidelity, that it would be impossible to get them into a presentable state for HD resolutions.

    Still... it's fun to dream. If I were to do SFTM today, I think it would be a lot easier to create a quality game. The tools and technologies of game development are so much more advanced than they were back then.

    Creating SFTM today, I would go with 3D characters for sure. We'd be able to make the characters look any way we'd like in terms of physique and costume without having to worry that the actors were out of shape or didn't physically match their character. We could use motion capture and hand keyed animation to ensure that the characters moved properly and we wouldn't have to be concerned with the fact that the majority of the actors were not martial artists.

    There is a lot more information available today regarding fighting game mechanics and systems. There has been 10+ years of fighting game development since SFTM to learn from. I certainly have plenty of ideas as to what would make a successful fighting game today as well.
  • Hanzo_HasashiHanzo_Hasashi Primal Rage rules Joined: Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I certainly have plenty of ideas as to what would make a successful fighting game today as well.

    And it would be wonderful if you could make them true in a new fighting game either homebrew or from any company. The genre right now seems too stalled into chain/free flying/breakers/run/flashy stuff. Sure that shit is GOOD as GG but we need something fresh and a throwback to oldschool gameplay would help too...
  • FaightFaight Spewing hatemail IRL Joined: Posts: 1,213
    I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I loved the way the building process works. I was intrigued by the process used to capture motion for these type of games as I never knew how they worked before. I'm glad someone with first hand experience explained it as I was too lazy to search out the answer myself.

    Now I'm going to have to get my hands on both the MAME arcade version of this game and the console version to see the differences. I think I played it one time.

    They should make a movie out of this.
    Your arguments are invalid, I drowned a shark.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Interesting... I wanna see these differences for myself now.

    Informative thread.
  • kev_the_bevkev_the_bev triumph. Joined: Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Anoon, what's your favourite Street Fighter game, other than this SF:TM. And while we're at it, favourite fighting game ever?
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    Anoon, what's your favourite Street Fighter game... ...And while we're at it, favourite fighting game ever?

    Street Fighter Alpha 3 is my favorite Street Fighter game.

    Favorite ever? That's tough... Probably a toss up between Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Mortal Kombat 2.
  • FaightFaight Spewing hatemail IRL Joined: Posts: 1,213

    It's apparent that you didn't actually read the thread. Capcom was afraid of losing business to the MK series, so they wanted to produce a digitalized game in the same manner. Unfortunately, the Japanese did not know how to to that. As such when the Street Fighter Movie came out they enlisted the aid of an American company to produce the game. Anoon even talks about how things did not turn out as he had hoped.

    They had planned to push the envelope with 256 colors per character versus the 64 that MK had and did amazing thing with lighting. The fact that it turned out as it did can be contributed to the fact that they were bound to create the game based on the movie and differences of opinion by the design staff.

    While my short summary does not do justice to actually reading the thread I hope that it does shine a little light on the subject for you.
    Your arguments are invalid, I drowned a shark.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 13,068 mod
  • 12:5112:51 I am smiling. Joined: Posts: 127
    Great great read anoon!

    I was curious, what are you up to nowadays?
    No, no, no, it's not ha - dough - ken, it's ha - doooooooooooooooooooo - ken.
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    I was curious, what are you up to nowadays?

    http://alan-noon.blogspot.com/2007/05/adjusting-course.html#links
    More news shortly.

    So Anoon, I take it that we can count on your vote for Haggar for President?
    Just say "No," to Mike Haggar.
  • mr. newbiemr. newbie 2 frame reversals :D Joined: Posts: 671

    and I would love to make arcade games for a living..

    i hope you plan on moving to japan
    Its not a videogames videogame. Its certainly not a gamers videogame. Its candy for gamers, about videogames, expressed as a videogame.
  • EVAWINGZEROEVAWINGZERO Slacktivismist Extraordinaire Joined: Posts: 2,229
    I recently got done building a SF:TM TG Mame Cabinet..... I'll post pics soon.
    [TMNTTF - Leonardo]
    [Donkey Kong - Jumpman]
    [UMVC3 - A Button, B Button, C Button + S]
    [MK9 - Scorpion, Freddy Krueger]
  • mr. newbiemr. newbie 2 frame reversals :D Joined: Posts: 671
    Just finished reading everything. easily bet thing posted on srk yet!

    1. were the capcom guys good at playing sf? i know you said you had an st cab around for refrence

    2.have you played capcom fighting evolution? imo that's another game capcom probably doesn't want to acknowledge
    Its not a videogames videogame. Its certainly not a gamers videogame. Its candy for gamers, about videogames, expressed as a videogame.
  • Archer V2.0Archer V2.0 The Persian Prince Joined: Posts: 5,230
    Ken is Japanese...

    his hair is dyed... you can tell cause he has black eyebrows.
    Doo Doo Doooooooooooo
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ken is Japanese...

    his hair is dyed... you can tell cause he has black eyebrows.

    I thought the story was he was only a small percentage of japanese.W\e Ken is American!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ken's mother is Japanese and his father is American, that's why his last name is Masters.
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