Street Fighter the Movie Broke My Heart

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  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    AN ASIDE: A WORD ON BLOODSTORM
    Like Hard Yardage, Bloodstorm was pretty darn fun and exciting to work on too, though I was pretty unhappy with the final result. You can probably guess why. Bad art and bad game play. At the time Bloodstorm released, it really didnt stand a chance against the latest Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, which were up to versions Super and II respectively. I distinctly remember the coin op show at which Bloodstorm made its debut. It was in Chicago, and our booth was right next to Capcoms. Though I was not part of the sales force, I routinely went to the coin op shows to not only demo our games to the distributors, but to see and test the latest from the competition. I tested a whole lot of free Super Street Fighter II that weekend. Anyway, perhaps I can talk about Bloodstorm in the future.

    THE CHICAGO GAME DEV SCENE
    The interesting thing about Chicago game dev in the early nineties is that the major players in the industry had offices around town. Atari, Midway, Sega, Konami, and Data East all had development and/or sales arms in the area. There were a number of smaller video game related companies around as well. One of them was known as originally known as either Gamestar or Romstar. Maybe both at varying points in time. My facts are suspect here, but I seem to recall that while they didnt develop coin op games themselves, Romstar had something to do with the selling various coin op products, particularly to the South American region. At any rate, Romstar was purchased by Capcom and became their Midwest office. This is semi-important to know for reasons that will shortly become apparent.

    STREET FIGHTER VS. MORTAL KOMBAT
    I previously mentioned that Super Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat II were out on the market around the same time. The fact of the matter was, Mortal Kombat II appeared to be eclipsing Street Fighter in popularity. It was dominating the arcade. MKII machines were earning a thousand bucks a week or more in quarters, which was crazy amounts of dough. It appeared that gamers might be tiring of the same hand drawn sprites and 8 bit backgrounds of Street Fighter. I do not know whether or not the idea originated from Capcom Japan or one of the U.S. offices, but it seemed to make sense that Capcom should make a Street Fighter to appeal to the changing tastes of the American gamer.

    THE MOVIE
    Oh, and it just so happened that Capcom had signed on a bunch of pretty well known actors to bring their franchise to the big screen. It seemed like a home run! A brand new Street Fighter done in flashy new digitized graphics featuring the bona fide likenesses of major celebrities such as Raul Julia, Jean Claude Van Damme, Kylie Minogue, Wes Studi, and master thespian Gregg Rainwater! (*cough*)
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    THE CAPCOM/I.T. CONNECTION.
    So how does a smaller, American game developer like Incredible Technologies get handed one of the most important franchises in video gaming history? It might be clich, but its all about who you know. Oh, and I figure location had something to do with it too.

    Street Fighter the Movie, The Game, (as we ended up calling it,) seemed like a no brainer. Trouble was, Capcom apparently did not know how to do digitized graphics. (Or so I seem to recall hearing second hand.) Not only that, but probably more importantly, their hardware couldnt support the amount of colors required to do those fancy graphics justice. But apparently one of the members of upper management in Capcoms Midwest office knew of a company that had some really great hardware. This company was Incredible Technologies, and we had some custom built, proprietary hardware that kicked butt. This hardware was virtually unsurpassed when it came to the sheer numbers of colors it could display on screen at once. (I need to check my facts on this, but if memory serves, we eventually heard that MKII was doing 64 colors per character. The I.T. hardware could do 256. Sounds great, right? We thought so too. We eventually came to wonder if perhaps there was wisdom in using 64 colors. More on that later, if anyone cares.) it just so happened that I.T.s offices were a short ten minute drive down route 53 from Capcoms new Midwest offices, which Im sure didnt hurt our chances of landing the deal!

    AN ASIDE: SPECIAL PROPS TO TIME KILLERS
    I previously mentioned that Time Killers may have had a role in securing the SFTM deal for I.T. This is just word of mouth, but apparently when Time Killers made its debut at one of the coin op shows, the guys from Capcom were reported to be impressed with the technical execution and crowded around it, taking notes and trying to figure out how it was built. Ill personally pass no judgements on the game play of Time Killers here, but I must admit, it did feature a number of extremely impressive features for the time: the aforementioned dazzling array of on screen colors, multi level parallax scrolling backgrounds, dismemeberments, scanned in fine art used as in game assets, and without a doubt, the most amazing example of color cycling Ive ever seen: The time vortex.)

    So those are the factors, as I am aware, that led to how Incredible Technologies was trusted with what was supposed to be the next great iteration of the Street Fighter franchise.
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    All right. I'll take a break from posting and start up writing again so I can get ahead a bit. That should give opportunity for some questions to roll in, if anybody has any.
  • superminsupermin dream match never ends Joined: Posts: 1,482
    you were part of bloodstorm youre my hero

    so many secrets in that game
  • WorthlessWorthless SHOOTTHECORE Joined: Posts: 1,228
    Sagat is too good.

    EYEBEAMS
    IMM mod....still bad at fighters though :/

    av by me

    http://dedcell.blogspot.com/
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Got a question, why does Sawada have a lightsaber? Crazy to know that you Anoon helped in making SFTM.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • AlterGenesisAlterGenesis new srk is trollin Joined: Posts: 3,413
    Because! Every good Street Fighter needs a lightsaber!

    Very interesting information, here.
    #ipressallthebuttons
    XBL: AlterGenesis
    PSN: AlterGenesisOP
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,955 mod
    WHOA Anoon... You played as Blade? That makes my question a little easier.

    Blade's ending taken from All About Capcom, they used all caps so I'll do the same -

    "FOR YEARS BLADE HAS INFILTRATED BISON'S CORRUPT ORGANIZATION, REPORTING IN SECRET TO HIS BROTHER GUILE. NOW WITH BISON DESTROYED, BLADE AT LAST IS FREE OF HIS DEEP COVER ASSIGNMENT AND IS ABLE TO RESUME HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER AS GUNLOC."

    :rofl:

    Sorry, I can't help but laugh whenever I read that.

    As far as I know, in the American version of Slammasters it was stated that Gunloc is "rumoured to be related to a famous street fighter" and he does have a Sonic Attack. However, this is just in his profile in the American version and not the Japanese one, something that Capcom USA made up (not official).

    So really, who's idea was it to not only make Blade Gunloc, but make him Guile's brother as a reference to a made up Capcom USA Profile for Gunloc in Slammasters? That's just really one of the strangest endings in the game, if you happen to know anything about this please shed some light. If not, that's cool. Thanks!
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    So really, who's idea was it to not only make Blade Gunloc...
    LOL, does it really say that!?! that does seem pretty ridiculous. I need to play SFTM again. Anyway, to be honest I am really not sure who specifically came up with that one. It could have been me or one of the other guys at I.T. For the most part, Capcom USA didn't get involved when it came to specifics like that, so I doubt the SFTM tie in to Slammasters came from them.
    One of the things that is cool about the SF universe is the character to character interpersonal relationships. It's no surprise that we tried to tie Blade in with the rest of the crew. You have to admit, when you're looking at the select screen of SFTM, he looks pretty out of place against the traditional SF gang!
    why does Sawada have a lightsaber?
    Wow, lots of Sawada questions, that's great! So, Sawada doesn't actually have a lightsaber. In the days before motion blur, refraction effects, and emissive textures, we did what we could. :) It's just supposed to be a visual manifestation of the power behind the attack.
  • MajMaj CvS2 Combo Collector Joined: Posts: 2,073
    Haha, i'm enjoying storytime so far. Keep it rollin'.

    So i take it there's no way to turn off BGM?
  • ZinacZinac Ocha shinai? Joined: Posts: 810
    I kinda ignored this thread because of the title, but clicked on it as a fluke. Quite a read, I'll sure keep up with it. Since I'm independently working on my own fighting game this thread interests me. Keep it up.
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    So i take it there's no way to turn off BGM?
    Not that I know of, via secret code or anything. I assume you are playing the coin op version through MAME perhaps? You might want to look in the diagnostic menu. We might have put in a dip switch setting or volume control specifically for music. Not sure how much control there might be over the specific voices though.

    Ok, so I have a couple more sections done: The next one up is a brief word on some of the initial internal confusion regarding the project that might begin to shed light on why certain discrepancies exist in the game versus the film. This quickly dove tails into some character specific info as an example, the likes of which may rock the Shoryuken forums to their very core! Ok, maybe not. But I wouldn't be surprised if it generates a few "WTF!?!" type responses.

    Following that, I describe our capture technology, which should help explain why the characters look and move the way they do.

    These are the last two sections I have completed at this point, so I was going to hold off on posting them until I could get ahead on new sections a bit more, but I had so much fun writing the character one up, I don't think I can wait.

    Maybe just a teaser then...
  • VEGA_OMEGAVEGA_OMEGA Has Magic Bullets Joined: Posts: 999
    haha This is one of the coolest threads i've ever seen on this site. For real.

    a little of topic, but what do you have to major in in order to get a job working with arcade hardware? Just a basic computer science degree?

    I'll confess that I have an unnatural obsession with home arcade collecting/ arcade hardware in general :sweat: , and I would love to make arcade games for a living. I guess I want to know what do I need to take in order to do that.
    I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    STREET FIGHTER 3, OR STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE???
    Perhaps this is all my perception, but looking back, I remember that there was some amount of confusion as to what it was we were making exactly. It could have been the international game of Telephone, but somewhere along the communication chain from the Capcom Japan guys to the Capcom USA guys, to our management, down to the team, there seemed to be mixed signals. I distinctly recall that originally during the pitch process the game was billed as Street Fighter 3. We were to pull out all of the stops and make the greatest Street Fighter ever. More characters! Digitized graphics! New combo system! The works! We set about writing up all kinds of great stuff to include in the final product. One of those things was even Sheng Long.
  • XanozXanoz Tsk tsk tsk... Joined: Posts: 297

    Wow, lots of Sawada questions

    Lol just because nobody truly understands wtf he is or where the eff he came from, even though it is explained. Funny thing is, I thought in the game he kinda owned x x;. Blood as an attack?
    You can't always get what you want but you'll get what you need...
    Why in the fuck is Kaillera still full of people -_-;
    Nobody in VS room to bliss....So RushedDown still wins =( Bitch ass nyukkah =[
  • ShintoShinto Mr. Solo Dolo Joined: Posts: 1,585
    Quick question.

    Was this game and the movie released in Japan? what was there response?
    East Coast.
    Nyc_Shinto = Psn
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Bloodstorm question:

    Can you explain the whole Daniel Pesina (Johnny Cage) in the game ad of Bloodstorm incident? I know Midway fired him for doing that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Do u still work for the same company now and what futre games do u plan on making :lovin:
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    what do you have to major in in order to get a job working with arcade hardware?
    It depends what you mean exactly I guess. When you say "working with arcade hardware, what do you mean? Do you want to be designing it? Assembling it, writing for it? if you are talking about the former, then I imagine Electrical engineering would be good. If it's more the latter, Computer Science would probably be a good move. If it's assembling or fixing arcade hardware, I'm not really sure. You might not need any degree, depending.
    nobody truly understands wtf he[Sawada] is or where the eff he came from
    Ha. I totally understand where that comes from. I just finished up two new sections on our daily routine and the movie studio where we worked, and I'm afraid it might be getting a little boring and/or veering away from directly SFTM game related info, so I'll do a little piece on Sawada/Fei Long next. He was a pretty bad assed character, and for good reason, which I'll explain.
    Was this game and the movie released in Japan? what was there response?
    Maybe? I honestly don't know. perhaps not. It was largely supposed to appeal to American audiences. Memories are coming back to me now... I think the Capcom Japan guys told us that it didn't test well over there, so it probably didn't go into wide release.
    Can you explain the whole Daniel Pesina (Johnny Cage) in the game ad of Bloodstorm incident?
    So, ALLEGEDLY what happened was that there was a rift developing between some subset of Mortal Kombat actors and Midway over money. So any severing of ties between any of the MK talent and Midway was likely due to that fact. It was also probably prior to the ad, rather than the result of it. I wasn't part of the arrangement for that spread, so take this info with a grain of salt. Sorry, I wish I had more details. I do remember that it was considered a pretty big coup around the office at the time. Ultimately, it didn't seem to matter.
    Do u still work for the same company now and what futre games do u plan on making
    No, I left Incredible Technologies a while after SFTM and went to Midway, where I worked on their sports titles such as Redcard Soccer, NFL Blitz, and MLB Slugfest. After that I went to Day1 Studios, where I am currently employed as the Senior Technical Artist. The titles I am on now are unnannounced, so I can't say anything about them. We recently released FEAR for the Xbox 360, which should also be out on the PS3 any time soon. I would love to work on a another fighting game someday.
  • StuckeyStuckey SURE, BUDDY! Joined: Posts: 955
    *subscribes* This is a very good read, anoon. Looking forward to the rest.
    R.I.P. Kris Durham
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Not that I know of, via secret code or anything. I assume you are playing the coin op version through MAME perhaps? You might want to look in the diagnostic menu. We might have put in a dip switch setting or volume control specifically for music. Not sure how much control there might be over the specific voices though.
    Building off that, it's also possible to hack the emulator so that it reads the rom in a specific way as to disable BGM.

    Oh, and this thread is a real winner. Gaming fans desperately need this kind of direct interaction with gaming developers. Benefits both parties.
    Let's play.
  • Spider-DanSpider-Dan Joined: Posts: 1,003
    I eagerly await the next installment.

    That being said, you can only eat enough breadsticks and salad before you start to ask, "Where's The Beef?"

    Not that I'm telling you how to run your thread!
    I May Be Wrong, but I Doubt It
  • ButtermakerButtermaker Joined: Posts: 301
    LOL, does it really say that!?!
    Sure does.
  • umthrfkrumthrfkr /Bane Voice Joined: Posts: 7,269
    good thread. prolly the best read ive ever seen on srk in... ever. lookin forward to the rest.:wgrin:
    fuck you all
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    SHENG LONG
    All this was going down sometime during ?93/?94 and we thought we were initially going to be making Street Fighter 3, (or at least, I seemed to think so, for whatever reason.) Now at this time, if the whole Gouken,Gouki/Akuma, Gotetsu story line existed within Capcom somewhere, we were never privy to that info. The whole Sheng Long controversy was still fresh in everyone?s mind; was Sheng Long a character? Was it a mistranslation? We didn?t know either, but what better way to get people really excited about Street Fighter again than to include the most hyped up character ever? Capcom Japan wasn?t too hot on that idea initially, saying something to the effect that ?When Sheng Long does appear, it will be like God making an appearance.? What is curious at this point is that they never corrected us on the character?s name. We always referred to him as Sheng Long. Perhaps much like the way Gouki is known as Akuma in the states, Gouken, (or Gotetsu? It was never clear which one Sheng Long was a true parallel of,) would be known as Sheng Long in the US? At any rate, Sheng Long was shelved, for the time being?

    ?But he almost made it in after all. I?m skipping ahead quite a bit here, but I might as well put the Sheng Long business to bed. Towards the end of the project we had already digitized the majority of the actors from the film while on location of the movie set in Australia. That art was largely done, processed, and in game. There were still a couple more characters we had to do though. Chun Li, (The beautiful Ming Na Wen,) was never captured in Australia, due to contractual issues. (More on that later.) What ended up happening was that we set up a new, temporary digitizing studio in our Chicago warehouse and flew her in for the session. While we had the studio set up, we also captured two more characters. One was an alternate Ken, which I?ll mention briefly later. The other was in fact Sheng Long.

    For whatever reason, the idea of adding Sheng Long came up again, and suddenly the Capcom guys were all for it. Maybe it was them, maybe it was us, but somebody apparently realized at that point that the game was going to need something a little extra other than the new fangled game play to propel it to stratospheric levels of success. Itook it upon myself to designing the look of and move set of Sheng Long. What an opportunity!!! Again, I was in heaven.

    Sheng Long was going to be awesome. He wore black Gi pants and a long, green, padded/quilted, sleeveless Gi style top which was tied off with a black belt. His hair was very long and white, being done up in a single big braid running down his back. He also had a very long kung fu movie style Fu Manchu moustache. Now this is where things get a bit wilder? He also wore a thick black ribbon over his eyes. The reason for this I explained, was that Akuma had attacked Sheng Long in an attempt to kill him, and while he failed in slaying Sheng, he did succeed in taking his eyes out and blinding him. Sheng Long was so badassed though, he didn?t even really need his eyes to fight. Ok, so now the design really gets crazy? the final component of Sheng Long?s design was his arm. So as I understand it, originally Ken and Ryu?s hadoken specials were supposed to representations of their Chi, focused into a single high powered attack. ?Hadoken? supposedly translates roughly into something like ?force wave,? and in the original art, you can see phantom representations of their hands in the projectile. I believe that what the happened was that for the most part, your typical westerner arcade customer wasn?t familiar with the concept of Chi in that day and age, so these attacks were generally referred to as fireballs. At some point during the series, Ryu actually started throwing fireballs, and Ken developed the flaming dragon punch. As part of Sheng Long?s design, I tried to explain these phenomena. So my idea was that at higher levels of enlightenment, these karate master guys would start to take on aspects of ?the dragon? as it suited their fighting style. Sheng Long was to be so advanced, he actually started to physically manifest dragon like attributes. Seeing as the words ?Sheng Long? were actually a translation of ?Dragon Punch? it seemed to make sense that his dragon manifestation would appear in his punching arm. The arm was green and scaly, with several horns protruding from it?s length. His fingers had fused together into 2 larger claws. Capcom signed off, and we were all set to create my Sheng Long!

    The practical execution of Sheng Long went fairly well too. One of our artists served as the actor on the digitizing set as he was into body building and martial arts. The outfit was pretty simple: Black Gi pants, and a custom tailored top. The sash across his eyes was actually a mesh so that he could see while acting, but still appeared blindfolded. We hired a professional make up artist to do the hair, moustache, and arm effects. The arm looked pretty good, for the most of the shoot. Digitizing sessions typically lasted for 6 hours on average and after all of that time under the hot lights, the make up of the arm started to melt. By the end, green make up was running everywhere, and the horns were barely clinging to the actor?s arm. But it held up pretty well, all considered. (Fun fact: The artist that played Sheng Long went on to work at Midway games, where he has been creating characters for Mortal Kombat!0

    Naturally, he was supposed to play like your typical Ken/Ryu character with some super Akuma style extras, as far as I recall. One major difference however was that he wouldn?t have typical block animations. Instead, the idea was that Sheng Long was so advanced, that you could never hit him unless you scored an unguarded attack. Sure, you would play him like a regular character with ?back? on the stick putting your character on the defensive, but when blocking, the animation would look like a dodge instead of a traditional Street Fighter block. All of the game play would be the same, with block slide kicking in and all that, but Sheng would appear to have stepped out of the way of the attack. Would it have worked? I like to think so, but I was afraid that it broke SF convention too much, so we digitized two full sets of blocking animations so we had a back up plan: traditional and dodge style blocking anims. Looking back, we broke just about every other SF convention, so would it have really mattered? I guess we?ll never know.

    In the end, Sheng Long never made it into the game, and my grand designs for what was to be a near divine fighting game experience never saw the screen. Due to time constraints, we never were able to process the artwork. All of this stuff was burnt off to CD. I hope it still survives somewhere in the vaults of Incredible Technologies. I?d love to see that footage again.
  • BacardiBacardi steal this avatar Joined: Posts: 5,391 mod
    I love this thread, and anoon sftm is my guilty pleasure. i even made a combo vid for it, gotta dig it up. Bless my vid! :rofl:
    Twitter: @New_Challengers | Follow for the latest news on CT tournaments and events
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  • AlterGenesisAlterGenesis new srk is trollin Joined: Posts: 3,413
    I love this thread, and anoon sftm is my guilty pleasure. i even made a combo vid for it, gotta dig it up. Bless my vid! :rofl:

    I would like to see that.
    #ipressallthebuttons
    XBL: AlterGenesis
    PSN: AlterGenesisOP
  • BacardiBacardi steal this avatar Joined: Posts: 5,391 mod
    well I am at work right now, I made the vid in 2k2 but it was filled with a bunch of glitches and good fun. I always wanted to make another one, I would just blaze and play sftm for hours in mame, best single player fighting game ever with KI in a close second
    Twitter: @New_Challengers | Follow for the latest news on CT tournaments and events
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  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,955 mod
    Anoon - Wow, your response to the whole Blade / Gunloc ordeal was much more than I expected. What you said about Sheng Long is great too. THANK YOU! :tup:
  • ChairHomeChairHome hiding under your bed Joined: Posts: 1,733
    I thought, when this movie was first coming out, that CoJ's president was supposed to have a part in the movie. I assumed that Sawada was him for some reason.
    O Hadoken!
    |=( -O)
    /\

    Cool nintendo av not by me :-(. Found it on the net.
  • MiLkyMiLky Maui's #1 SF2 player Joined: Posts: 734
    - In while epic thread still thrives.

    Any way to steal/post/borrow some artwork/pics of the Sheng Long character. Would be fun to see just for the hell of it.

    Just played through the game for the first time in years.

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMEE OOOOOOOVEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR.
    "I've dated uglier girls than you for breakfast"
    Korgoth
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,955 mod
    It's funny how SRK poster Aerialgroove reminded me of this today in a totally different conversation. This is how Gouken - Ryu and Ken's master looked like in the SF2V manga. The SF2V manga was very different from the SF2V anime that it was based on, they shared some of the SF2V character designs but the story was very different/unrelated. Anyway check this out - here he has a slash going through one eye, not missing both eyes like Anoon's Sheng Long design. Kind of a funny coincidence eh?

    http://fightingstreet.com/pics/temp/various/mangascan.gif
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    i wanna be a game designer like u any advice on what 2 study
  • Spectre7Spectre7 The Gentleman Joined: Posts: 2,363
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Gouken5.jpg

    This is usually how I've seen Gouken. Here's another:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Vegagouken.png
    He's on the right hand side.
    "We don't make mistakes, just happy accidents." -Bob Ross.
  • ShintoShinto Mr. Solo Dolo Joined: Posts: 1,585
    That was a damn good Shen long story, It made me want more.

    Bacardi I wanna see the vid.
    East Coast.
    Nyc_Shinto = Psn
  • SabinSabin Arcana 2 on PS2 SUX Joined: Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This legendary thread should be renamed so other people can get in on this
    and stickied also on the forum, assuming its not fake (which i dont think it is of course, reading ppls reactions and reading the detailed info on this thread)

    I don't know why heads havent done this already.

    I still have the GamePro issues breaking down SFTM back when they broke down the combo system in detail (when they used to be very good.) Good times, good times...ah I miss my childhood.

    anoon, im sure the answer is no because you are probably really busy, but do you still keep up with fighting games and the fighting game scene, and have you ever played competively (been to evo) or anything like that? Did you ever have a personal interest in that kind of thing? The reason why I'm curious about is because that you could have entered events like this a a relative unknown since noone knows who the fuck you are, hehe
    SRK should stand for Stupid Retarded Kids.
    Originally Posted by Alidfe
    Arturo Sanchez won't be the best Dhalsim until he moves to Kyoto and changes his name to Kazuhiko Nitsuma.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    That Sheng Long bit was great! Do you have any artwork or pics or anything of him?

    Love the aspect of him dodging attacks instead of blocking too :tup:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Since you mention the confusion of gouken/goutetsu/sheng long in the early days, i thought i'd mention this.. the other day i was watching the latest DVD release of SF2 Movie (animated one with Chun-Li shower scene). There's a bit where they have bio's of Ken and Ryu on screen and you can clearly see that it says that their master was Goutetsu. However in all the other material on the disc (added by Udon i believe), they always refer to Gouken as Ryu/Ken's master. I haven't read the comics so i assume this to be the canon these days!?
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    ...CoJ's president was supposed to have a part in the movie. I assumed that Sawada was him for some reason.
    No, Kenzo Tsujimoto and Kenya Sawada are two different people. Tsujimoto is in the movie however. There is a scene towards the beginning in which Guile gives a rally speech to his troops after the operation is supposedly shut down. There are a few shots of random A.N. Troopers listening as Jean Claude is talking. One of these Troopers is Tsujimoto. I'll go home and check the DVD for the exact time tonight.
    i wanna be a game designer like u any advice on what 2 study
    Send me a PM and I'll try to get around to lending some advice. It's too big a topic to cover here.
    This is usually how I've seen Gouken. Here's another:
    Yes, I believe that is the official design of Gouken. I should say: It was shortly before, or just after SFTM released that I personally saw the name Gouken being bandied about. It could have very well been that Capcom already had the storyline and name "Gotetsu" within their organization when we proposed putting Sheng Long in. These days I'm not sure if Capcom Japan saw our Sheng Long as a different character entirely, or the same character with the Americanized name.

    My impression is that towards the end of the project, things got a little weird. I don't know if they really wanted an American, MK-esque style Street Fighter for the US and trusted us with whatever we wanted to do, or if at some point they realized the quality just wasn't going to be there and they just didn't care what we happened to SFTM. I never see it mentioned in any of the books they put out, I tend to think perhaps it was the latter.
    ...but do you still keep up with fighting games and the fighting game scene...
    Umm, yes and no. I still claim to love fighting games, though I find myself playing less and less of them. I still love Street Fighter 2, (Alpha 3 is my favorite,) and Mortal Kombat 2. I really want to like Street Fighter 3, but the characters didn't appeal to me enough to really get into it. I love 3D graphics, but I never felt the 3D fighters offered the same type of game play I was looking for. I check them all out, but I never play them for long. Virtual Fighter never appealed to me. Tekken was OK, as was the first Soul Calibur. I actually kind of liked that 3D King of Fighters on Xbox, until I quickly found out how shallow it was. Surprisingly enough, I enjoyed the second Def Jam game even though I'm totally over hip hop in general.
    I'm still waiting for that gorgeous 3D fighter with the old school game play and feel to lure me back in!
    have you ever played competively (been to evo) or anything like that? Did you ever have a personal interest in that kind of thing?
    I'll be honest: I considered myself pretty good back in the Hyper Fighting/Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/MK2 days, but I never really played competitively. I felt I never had the time or money to devote to going down to the arcade and reaching that next level. Once the arcades died, I'm afriad my skills dropped off big time. Now I read the Shoryuken forums and I don't understand half of the terminology you guys use. I'm a scrub again.
    That Sheng Long bit was great! Do you have any artwork or pics or anything of him?
    Thanks! I thought you guys might like that. Unfortunately, I do not have any images of him that I know of. It's possible I have some old sketches tucked away somewhere, but I wouldn't even know where to begin.
  • R | CR | C Hunter Rank 999 Joined: Posts: 1,495
    anoon: this is great thread; a very fun read! Thanks for sharing

    Questions:

    1. From a gaming production company's perspective, how is the "success" of a game measured? I've never worked in the gaming industries, but I hear all the time that it comes from "the sales." Does that mean the direct sales of consumers, or the wholesales? I'd be interested in learn more about this process.

    2. How "successful" was this game and did how did it compare to the team's expectations?

    3. Is today's method of measuring "success" the same as it was when you worked on SFTM?

    Thanks again
  • fluxcorefluxcore Fighting Kiwi Joined: Posts: 310
    Stories about game development are usually good reads, but this is great! I must admit to never really having played the game much, but I may well give it a go simply because there's a connection now :D

    Thanks for coming forward (however much you thought it might be a bad idea) :D
    --flux
    There is no knowledge that is not power
  • Leebee LinkLeebee Link (they/them) Joined: Posts: 2,260
    This thread is monumental. Thank you so much anoon!

    On that note, (this is going to be depressing but whatever) if you worked with the actors during/after the movie was made, did you get to work with raul julia before he died? D:
    JoJo's Bizarre Adventure- Mariah, Jotaro
    KoF XIII- Robert, Elisabeth, Ash
    Battle Fantasia- Urs, Ashley, Face
  • omniomni Joined: Posts: 476 admin
    anoon: this is great thread; a very fun read! Thanks for sharing

    Questions:

    1. From a gaming production company's perspective, how is the "success" of a game measured? I've never worked in the gaming industries, but I hear all the time that it comes from "the sales." Does that mean the direct sales of consumers, or the wholesales? I'd be interested in learn more about this process.

    I'll try to tackle this one if no one minds.

    Basically games are a business and there is a lot of money involved - especially with the next gen games that are being made these days. Success is like 90% measured in sales. Sales meaning to the consumer. Most companies are smart these days and print enough to meet a low demand then print more if the demand is higher. Obviously every game is handled different - such as Gears of War demand versus Viva Pinanata or whatever. Rarely do you have the situation anymore of stacks and stacks of games sitting on store shelves and no one buying them. Although it happens aka Backyard Wrestling 2.

    The other 10% is how well the game was received from critics/consumers. If a game is received well such as Ico but sells poorly then it might still be perceived as a hit. Ico is a great example because it allowed Ueda to make Shadow of the Colosssus. But at the end of the day if SotC didn't sell well either then I doubt even he would be getting a third game.

    Keep in mind that selling well isn't measured by games like Halo. Its only measured against the budget of the game. So if a game costs only $300k to make then it doesn't need to sell as many units for everyone to make their money back on. However if a game's budget is like $30 million, then it needs to sell a lot more.

    The videogame industry is just that, an industry. And it's all measured in money.

    Derek Daniels
    http://lowfierce.blogspot.com
  • ytwojayytwojay Banned Joined: Posts: 2,035
    Posting in a legendary thread!

    I hope you can find the Sheng Long artwork~
    I rarely drive steamboats, dad.
  • Kyo T Robot ESQKyo T Robot ESQ Joined: Posts: 3
    This is a very cool read. Although I hated that game it still is interesting to hear the stories behind it. Anoon if you don't mind answering this question I'd like to know whose idea it was to have all those secret characters that were color swaps of Blade.
  • 4Play4Play Galactic Asshole Joined: Posts: 1,534
    i wanna be a game designer like u any advice on what 2 study

    Me too! I hope to get a helping start if possible. Thx.
    SRK: 4Play(main), redpremium.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    STREET FIGHTER 3, OR STREET FIGHTER THE MOVIE???
    Perhaps this is all my perception, but looking back, I remember that there was some amount of confusion as to what it was we were making exactly. It could have been the international game of ?Telephone,? but somewhere along the communication chain from the Capcom Japan guys to the Capcom USA guys, to our management, down to the team, there seemed to be mixed signals. I distinctly recall that originally during the pitch process the game was billed as Street Fighter 3. We were to pull out all of the stops and make the greatest Street Fighter ever. More characters! Digitized graphics! New combo system! The works! We set about writing up all kinds of great stuff to include in the final product. One of those things was even Sheng Long.

    That doesn't surprise me; ever since SSF2 Capcom Japan was contemplating about SF3, trying out several kinds of technologies and ideas. They finally decided on CPS3 for it, 4 years later. Interesting though.

    About Sheng Long, his name translates to "rising dragon" rather than "dragon punch."

    The first Gouken pic is a rough sketch from the Zero OVA/Alpha Movie. The second is from the manga SF2 Ryu, the work which led to Capcom's decision of making him officially Ryu and Ken's master once Super X/Super Turbo came out. In the SF2V manga the eye-scarred master is named Gouun, and the SF2 Animated Movie gives evidence that between SSF2 and Super X Capcom played with the idea of naming the master Goutetsu before taking the manga's idea, but finally Goutetsu became the master's master.

    Just my opinion, but when Capcom Japan told your team, anoon, about Sheng Long appearing, they meant it would be nothing short of a miracle. They knew about the hoaxes and the confusion overseas. There wasn't anything to correct you on. Sheng Long was an American creation through and through.
  • Optimus PrimeOptimus Prime Joined: Posts: 70
    Thread Winner!! :smile:
    STREET FIGHTER Vs. MORTAL KOMBAT
    I previously mentioned that Super Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat II were out on the market around the same time. The fact of the matter was, Mortal Kombat II appeared to be eclipsing Street Fighter in popularity. It was dominating the arcade. MK II machines were earning a thousand bucks a week or more in quarters, which was crazy amounts of dough. It appeared that gamers might be tiring of the same hand drawn sprites and 8 bit backgrounds of Street Fighter. I do not know whether or not the idea originated from Capcom Japan or one of the U.S. offices, but it seemed to make sense that Capcom should make a Street Fighter to appeal to the changing tastes of the American gamer.

    THE MOVIE
    Oh, and it just so happened that Capcom had signed on a bunch of pretty well known actors to bring their franchise to the big screen. It seemed like a home run! A brand new Street Fighter done in flashy new digitized graphics featuring the bona fide likenesses of major celebrities such as Raul Julia, Jean Claude Van Damme, Kylie Minogue, Wes Studi, and master thespian Gregg Rainwater!
    (*cough*)
    Wow, I didn't realize that Capcom did, in fact, start to feel sorta threatened by digitized fighter games (back then) that they would go as far as considering making a game of such using Street Fighter characters. Yeah, it did seem more people were playing MK back in the day, but I just chalked it up to gamers playing that game for the Fatalities and finishing moves rather than being solely impressed with the digitized characters. I don't think combo display counters were implemented in games back then, so what all guys did was basically show each other off by just doing those finishing moves (Well, it seemed like that, so I could be wrong). I think most people that crowded around that arcade game (while people were playing it) were mostly there to just view that kind of special F/X & stuff.

    Very interesting stuff, my man. This thread has been a very, very fascinating & informative read for me. If you don't mind, I have some other questions for you but will PM them to you instead.


    And thanks again, anoon, for sharing this. :tup:
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    Stickied!?! Whoa, I'm honored. Thanks for all of the responses.
    A few more answers, then I'll post another couple of sections
    2. How "successful" was this game and did how did it compare to the team's expectations?
    I don't recall how many we sold, but I believe the initial run did move. So maybe there were few thousand machines sold? I really don't know how much the game cost to develop. I guess it largely depends how Capcom did the accounting. For example, if the price of the actors was billed purely to the film production, that would make the game cheaper. I really don't know how much I.T. got paid to do the project. Thinking back to coin op budgets, SFTM may have broken even, if that was the sole line item. Again, I'm purely speculating.

    As far as expectations... I'll only speak for myself, rather than the rest of the team here. At the start of the project, I fully expected that we were going to make the greatest fighting game ever. I really thought we could. I felt that we had the right people, with the right knowledge, with the right resources and backing to do it. It was truly a golden opportunity. Not many people get a chance like that in their careers.

    As time wore on, it became apparent to me that this would not come to pass. I am trying to write my account of that time in an entertaining tone to keep the text interesting, but the truth is that the end result of the SFTM project was a grave personal tragedy for me. Nobody loved Street Fighter more than me, and there I was: partly responsible for one of the most reviled games in history. I'm not proud of the game by any means, and the wasted opportunity truly does haunt me to this day.
    3. Is today's method of measuring "success" the same as it was when you worked on SFTM?
    Yep. $$$. Derek (Omni) answered much as I would have.
    whose idea it was to have all those secret characters that were color swaps of Blade.
    I really couldn't say specifically. It was probably one of those groupthink things as palette swapping just seemed like the thing to do at the time. More characters for relatively little extra effort.
    I didn't realize that Capcom did, in fact, start to feel sorta threatened by digitized fighter games
    Maybe I should edit that section of text you quoted a little. I come off as a know it all.
    So, I don't know if "threatened" is the right word... please keep in mind: I really don't know Capcom's true motivations or the mechinations at that time. I'm just relating the experience as I percieved it.

    In any business, when new technology arrives, companies are best served to evaluate and potentially adopt it, lest they be left behind. Digitizing was the hot video game technology of the day. Capcom already had the movie in production, so with this new technology came the opportunity to really bring their product a step closer to believability. So, was the fact that MKII was earning buckets of cash the sole motivation for Capcom to do the SFTM? I doubt it. Did they take notice and was it a factor? I'd wager Yes.

    I suppose my perception that MK was a motivating factor stems from the fact that Capcom hired us americans to do it, and they largely let us implement the game play the way "we" wanted. I plan on getting more into the whole fighting engine and game play of SFTM after I get all of this up front stuff posted.
    ...gamers playing that game for the Fatalities and finishing moves... ...so what all guys did was basically show each other off by just doing those finishing moves
    Well, I'll have to politely disagree with you there. I really feel that Mortal Kombat II did have a great deal of depth. It was different than SF2, but it had it's own unique systems and game play that largely worked. I still love MK2 to this day. The fatalities may have drawn people in, but I believe that once there, they stayed for the game play.
    if you worked with the actors during/after the movie was made, did you get to work with raul julia before he died?
    We did briefly meet Mr. Julia, but sadly, he was very ill at the time, so we did not get an opportunity to digitize him. The actor you see in the game is actually his stand in/stunt double.
  • anoonanoon Joined: Posts: 91
    DIGITIZING: THE SET AND EQUIPMENT
    Incredible Technologies had done some digitizing for the previously mentioned Hard Yardage, but the digitizing for SFTM would be an undertaking on a whole new scale. Characters were to be huge by comparison, full color, (256 palette registers per sprite,) and they had to animate incredibly smoothly. We needed to capture a lot of frames of data. Clearly the Hard Yardage setup from 2 years prior was not going to work.

    We ended up with some huge, broadcast quality Sony camera and some supposedly high end capture card which was installed in a PC with one of those (at the time,) fancy new CD ROM burners. The camera connected directly to the card/PC. I really wish I could remember the specifics of the makes and models, but they escape me now. What I do remember is that the card was not capturing data fast enough. Ever wonder why some of those SFTM animation look stiff? Get this: Its because the actors basically had to perform each motion IN SLOW MOTION! If they moved too fast, the image would get split across fields, resulting in tearing of the image which was a real bear to deal with for the artists as they would have to somehow extract the background color from character image while somehow rebuilding the field interpolated data. We experimented with all kinds of camera settings, capture settings, lighting schemes, you name it. We minimized the effect as best we could, but in the end, we were capturing animations in slow motion. The slower the better. (Supposedly we had purchased the same capture card as the Mortal Kombat guys had, but I really dont know where that info came from, as it couldnt possibly be true. When we did a project with Midway later, I got to see just how advanced their capture setup was. It was no surprise they had such beautiful artwork!)

    Capture was done in front of a blue screen as we had expected that we were going to use a professional grade chromakeyer to strip the data. That didnt pan out, but we used blue anyway. We probably would have been better off with a flat grey background. We had a guy manning the camera and PC, and then 2 directors, each with his own monitor, to coach the actor through each move as necessary. Our two lead producers were on hand to do anything else that needed doing. We also generally had a lot of spectators lurking off screen, watching the whole process.

    As far as props went, we had a turn table, a wooden box roughly 2x2x3, and a small wooden staircase maybe 4 feet long and 3 feet high, with four to six steps up it, all painted blue to match the background. The turn table was for moves in which the character had to spin. The box and staircase came in handy for faking in air moves or posing an actors legs on to simulate high kicks. Remember, we couldnt capture at full speed, so many of the kick type moves had to be posed out, frame by frame for a clean shot. Besides, the majority of the actors werent martial artists, so they were not going to be performing good looking kicks anyway. BTW, special mention goes to Peter Tuiasosopo, who played E. Honda. Peter is a big man, and not a martial artist, yet he got his legs up way higher for the kicks just about all of the other actors. Half naked. Wearing a skirt. And a Wig. All greased up in baby oil under those hot lights. That guy was a real class act. Super good natured and fun. A true professional.

    We had some number of stage lights positioned around the actor to best create the right highlights and edge definition, probably somewhere on the order of 10 big lights. Some of these were on stands, some on the floor. Some had diffusers on them, some had their barn doors open or closed to varying degrees. The thing they all had in common was that these lights were HOT. We had a couple of fans wed turn on to cool the actors down as much as possible.

    Also on set was a Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, which wed use to demo some of the moves that were more difficult for the actors to visualize. Many months before arriving on set to shoot, we mapped out every characters animations/move set. These were all storyboarded and assigned a four letter code. This naming convention was something to the effect of SCFP, for Standing Close Fierce Punch. These codes were all printed onto standard 8.5x11 paper in big bold letters, and then arranged into a big binder. This binder would be held up in front of the camera before each take so that we knew which move was which by looking at the first frame of the capture. It also helped to make sure we got every single scheduled move. Sounds dumb, but it was an important little piece of the process.

    I think that was the majority of the mission critical digitizing equipment we had on set. We did a number of dry runs in the warehouse of the Chicago office to make sure we had our bases covered, and then we provided a list of our equipment needs to Capcom. We planned on taking our PC and capture card, the camera, and the binder with us, while Capcom would recreate everything else on set as per our specifications. Off to Australia!!!
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