Is Discord hurting the FGC?

grandabxgrandabx FlameaterJoined: Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
Ever since it's creation, the Discord app has been a rather polarizing program. With many people exclusively spending their time using it for anything concerning our fighting games, it has cause dedicated gaming forums to be pretty much void of consistent activity.

With dedicated forums, you're able to reach every single potential player, share knowledge and properly organize/archive vital information (along with all the subcategories like X vs Y threads). Discord has an immediate response feature with texting, but information is scattered everywhere and there's no such thing as a front page. If the app ever has a glitch, any and all info posted can be lost forever.

Personally, to me, it seems that we are not growing to our potential because we make getting into the FGC a hassle with not having a be-all-end-all place to form a hivemind.

How do feel about Discord?
I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
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Comments

  • MaxmanMaxman Joined: Posts: 1,800
    I think the best option would be for Forums for sharing and learning tech for fighting games

    Rather find it stupid how some players have secret "discord" stuff
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 PRAISED BEEF Joined: Posts: 54,536 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I don't worry about it much. I just talk with the people that still use the forums and just occasionally FB or twitter DM someone if I have to. Still rather use the forums no matter how little people there are than mess with Discord outside of DMs.

    ANIME IS DA WAY.  Anime EVO Takeover 2018.  No more CAPCPOM!  There will be oki and there will be setplay


  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 709
    Discord is just much faster and efficient than forums most of the time. When it comes to recording data sure discord isnt great in that regard.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 4,989
    Screw discord, it killed dustloop dead.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
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  • mpo9mpo9 Joined: Posts: 8
    Personally not a fan of any of those, including discord, for any serious discussion for a single reason: documentation.

    Reddit has a Wiki feature for subreddits and posts can be Sticked or linked to on a Sidebar. Discord has pinned things as well. I mean if you really want to document there's always stuff like Wikia/MediaWiki and stuff.

  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,003
    I'm torn on the whole discord thing. On the one hand it's very accessible because of its texting feature, on the other hand the app is convoluted as hell and navigating it isn't intuitive at all.
    There are ways to archive various pieces of info though, when I started to play some BB characters they had great archives and listed resources for info.

    But not remembering EVERYTHING is kinda a problem.
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Tien GoukiTien Gouki Captain Jack Joined: Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I always thought a lot of the times it's the FGC hurting itself.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,631
    I don't worry about it much. I just talk with the people that still use the forums and just occasionally FB or twitter DM someone if I have to. Still rather use the forums no matter how little people there are than mess with Discord outside of DMs.

    I only use SRK for fighting games. SRK was social media before social media; before Facebook, Twitter, and the like!!!
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,425
    God I hope so.
  • driftlogicdriftlogic Joined: Posts: 634
    It's hit or miss for me personally. As a brand new (and I mean BRAND NEW) KoF player, I've taken to Discord/Reddit as a last...really my ONLY resort for learning the game/match ups. I haven't had much in the way of success with sites like DreamCancel as they are mostly dead for a game like KoF IVX (plenty of info for XIII and earlier games though). Now one could certainly say the lack of activity on those sites is a product of KoF being maybe a bit more niche than Street Fighter and even GG I would say, but I can definitely see the Discord trend impacting how many people new to the FGC as a whole are learning.

    The fact that Discord can't really (or it least it doesn't seem like it can) document any and all that's happened in a particular server is a detriment, but I can attest to the fact that I feel like I get the answers to what I need to know much, much quicker and also a quicker feeling of camaraderie that's developed by way of Discord as the particular server I'm apart of serves as both KoF tech and general discussion as we all chat shit throughout the day.

    It's also been something of a breeze setting up matches with people as well which is a lifesaver I imagine for games with smaller communities than MK/IJ/SF/etc...all I have to do is drop an APB that @s everyone while I'm in training mode and I usually get a response/match or matches in a fairly short amount of time.

    Just my .02 cents...
    "Fucking dumb lying bastards with small dicks on XBL is what ruins multi-player at times."
    Machineking1313
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,149
    I remember one time one of the Cannon bros posted up on Reddit, and that shit was linked on the front page of SRK. The founders of this site don't even promote their own creation. Great, lol. I haven't even tried Discord, but it doesn't seem appealing to me. I prefer forums to get my info. Reddit is laid out in a weird way that makes it hard to read. IMO forums are still the best!

  • wedlwedl Joined: Posts: 52
    the addition of features like pinned messages and searching have improved the interface but overall discord's interface still lacks intuitive archival methods

    overall it's to the detriment of the program but at least it's better than Skype and Reddit's weakass search function which never gives you anything relevant
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 24,368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Discord is awful for finding very specific information you want.

    Yet it is pretty great once you get into these secret rooms with top players. Why are they secret? I don't know. But now that I have a line of contact with many of them my GG game has improved a lot.
  • NickRocksNickRocks SATSUI NO SABU Joined: Posts: 22,557
    Raz0r wrote: »
    Discord is awful for finding very specific information you want.

    Yet it is pretty great once you get into these secret rooms with top players. Why are they secret? I don't know. But now that I have a line of contact with many of them my GG game has improved a lot.

    sometimes u just wanna talk to people on your level
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 24,368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That's what I thought, yeah. It still deprives the other players of the tech being discussed.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,682
    so what?
    they want to play. it's most fun to play with people at or above your own level.

    this isn't the arcade. it's not just showing up and playing whoever is there and dealing with it.
    online allows people to be selective because it's a much bigger pool.

    also holy shit the entitlement about not being able to find frame data. ugh.
    Play more.
  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 24,368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Tebbo wrote: »
    so what?
    they want to play. it's most fun to play with people at or above your own level.

    this isn't the arcade. it's not just showing up and playing whoever is there and dealing with it.
    online allows people to be selective because it's a much bigger pool.

    also holy shit the entitlement about not being able to find frame data. ugh.

    What a butthurt post.

    No one is forcing these guys to play one another, you dumb fuck. I never said they had to. It's the discussions and open information that is missed.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 25,304
    I remember one time one of the Cannon bros posted up on Reddit, and that shit was linked on the front page of SRK. The founders of this site don't even promote their own creation. Great, lol. I haven't even tried Discord, but it doesn't seem appealing to me. I prefer forums to get my info. Reddit is laid out in a weird way that makes it hard to read. IMO forums are still the best!

    Alex Valle did the same thing. He created a thread on /r/ Street Fighter asking why most Street Fighter players haven't embraced reddit like other esport games.
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  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 24,368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I dunno if they still own it but Cannons def don't run this site anymore. It's been like that for yeeeeeeeeeeeears.
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Discord is just much faster and efficient than forums most of the time. When it comes to recording data sure discord isnt great in that regard.

    Efficient? Could you elaborate on that?
    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • Raz0rRaz0r Did you really just write that? Joined: Posts: 24,368 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It allows for faster shit talking between participants.
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,149
    I remember one time one of the Cannon bros posted up on Reddit, and that shit was linked on the front page of SRK. The founders of this site don't even promote their own creation. Great, lol. I haven't even tried Discord, but it doesn't seem appealing to me. I prefer forums to get my info. Reddit is laid out in a weird way that makes it hard to read. IMO forums are still the best!

    Alex Valle did the same thing. He created a thread on /r/ Street Fighter asking why most Street Fighter players haven't embraced reddit like other esport games.

    That is pretty funny. With all these social media platforms, it seems hard to get everyone in one place.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I dunno if they still own it but Cannons def don't run this site anymore. It's been like that for yeeeeeeeeeeeears.

    Yeah I know that. Still odd though. Unless I am wrong, SRK = EVO.

  • FoolinfectionFoolinfection Big fish in a little pond 4 LIFE Joined: Posts: 2,164
    Having a forum or a wiki to archive FG information is great because it's the closest thing you can have to a collected book of the same information. For the longest time I have always admired how well the ST wiki looks on this site. And there have been threads on this site that were laid out just as well as the wiki. You just don't get that from discord or reddit.
    Welcome to the internet. God help you if you have an opinion.

    I should start keeping written letters in sealed envelopes when I go to tournaments. If i get bodied, I give them one, and when they open it up it says "fuk u"

  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ({「決最終戦奥義」}) Joined: Posts: 3,390
    I see discord more of replacement of mIRC than anything else, I logged in the srk discord a few days ago for the first I didn't find anything worth reading and a few times i couldn't tell wtf people were talking about. it's too chaotic

    i believe many people including top players ran away from the hostile environment that was rampant around this site years ago. I could be wrong on this maybe it was something else.

    I can't remember the last time I saw a post of Mr Wizard

    I remember reading viscant posts somewhere or how arturo "sabin" used to be a mod he no longer post here he's now on reddit I think.

    reddit is like a quick message board to me just plain an ugly. I would never go to that site to find information

  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,682
    Raz0r wrote: »
    Tebbo wrote: »
    so what?
    they want to play. it's most fun to play with people at or above your own level.

    this isn't the arcade. it's not just showing up and playing whoever is there and dealing with it.
    online allows people to be selective because it's a much bigger pool.

    also holy shit the entitlement about not being able to find frame data. ugh.

    What a butthurt post.

    No one is forcing these guys to play one another, you dumb fuck. I never said they had to. It's the discussions and open information that is missed.

    it's the same thing.
    if you want to be a part of the discussion, have something to contribute.

    otherwise you're one of thousands who just look for other people to figure stuff out for them. in which case you get what people decide to share.

    and of course no one is forcing anyone lol. no you didn't say they had to. you asked why they are secret.
    so that people who contribute nothing and ask remedial questions are kept out.
    Play more.
  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 9,634
    Entitled to frame data? I only leveled up in Vsav greatly because micro situations where I didn't know what was saf and what wasn't was fixed by me going to the wiki and finding frame data.

    I mean if you want frame data to be an exclusive secret thing fine, but when japan comes and rocks everyones shit don't ask why.
    “I was trying to take the easy way out by running away from everything. No matter the pain, I will keep living. So when I die, I'll feel I did the best I could.” - Koala
  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 709
    edited June 10
    grandabx wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Discord is just much faster and efficient than forums most of the time. When it comes to recording data sure discord isnt great in that regard.

    Efficient? Could you elaborate on that?

    I go onto the tekken discord I wanna know what fengs wall combos options r, i go to fengs chat and ask i can see someone typing straight away so i dont leave and boom 20 secs later I have my answer. Then remember that I forgot his 10 frame punish so again I ask and the same person replies with the answer and someone else even gives me another option. Do u kno how long that process takes on a forum. A perfect example of this is how long it took me to reply to ur post.

    If ur smart and u create the server the right way discord is the perfect tool for the FGC. There is a reason a lot of people r using discord more. They want quick answers on the fly to simple questions and discord is perfect for that and more importantly it's very active.
  • xiceman191xiceman191 Joined: Posts: 1,240
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    grandabx wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Discord is just much faster and efficient than forums most of the time. When it comes to recording data sure discord isnt great in that regard.

    Efficient? Could you elaborate on that?

    I go onto the tekken discord I wanna know what fengs wall combos options r, i go to fengs chat and ask i can see someone typing straight away so i dont leave and boom 20 secs later I have my answer. Then remember that I forgot his 10 frame punish so again I ask and the same person replies with the answer and someone else even gives me another option. Do u kno how long that process takes on a forum. A perfect example of this is how long it took me to reply to ur post.

    If ur smart and u create the server the right way discord is the perfect tool for the FGC. There is a reason a lot of people r using discord more. They want quick answers on the fly to simple questions and discord is perfect for that and more importantly it's very active.

    Just piggybacking off of your post but the addition of bots as well is an asset. One of the discords I am a part of you can put !Feng qcf+1 and the bot will post all the frame data for the technique. So a proper and serious discord channel can be beneficial for information just like a good wiki/forum
    Psn: Datdudeiceman191
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 24,373
    There is nothing in existence that can do more damage to the FGC than Capcpom and their sycophantic shill army here on $RK.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • grandabxgrandabx Flameater Joined: Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    grandabx wrote: »
    Sanada-kun wrote: »
    Discord is just much faster and efficient than forums most of the time. When it comes to recording data sure discord isnt great in that regard.

    Efficient? Could you elaborate on that?

    I go onto the tekken discord I wanna know what fengs wall combos options r, i go to fengs chat and ask i can see someone typing straight away so i dont leave and boom 20 secs later I have my answer. Then remember that I forgot his 10 frame punish so again I ask and the same person replies with the answer and someone else even gives me another option. Do u kno how long that process takes on a forum. A perfect example of this is how long it took me to reply to ur post.

    If ur smart and u create the server the right way discord is the perfect tool for the FGC. There is a reason a lot of people r using discord more. They want quick answers on the fly to simple questions and discord is perfect for that and more importantly it's very active.

    It's fine to use Discord for quick questions, but the general info on a character/system mechanics should be archived. No one is going to want to keep answering the same question over and over. For instance: http://ki.infil.net/

    This makes things so much easier and people will have less of a reason to ask basic questions if all general info is put in an organized place. That site exist, but they may still use Discord for personal communication. Most of the other fighters on the market has their info scattered around on 6-7 sites/programs. A new player is not going to jump through hoops just to learn general info.

    I remember when people thought Bison doing the psycho crusher back and forth across the screen in SF:CE was cheap.
    GGXX: As long as I apply myself, I can win with anyone.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,470
    definitely, as is reddit and twitter. It's much easier now for information to be lost and then repeatedly discovered.

    the fix for this is a more active wiki community. The japanese are big on wikis for archiving useful information, and while SRKs is great for some games, it's quite poor for others.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 709
    edited June 13
    grandabx wrote: »

    It's fine to use Discord for quick questions, but the general info on a character/system mechanics should be archived. No one is going to want to keep answering the same question over and over. For instance: http://ki.infil.net/

    This makes things so much easier and people will have less of a reason to ask basic questions if all general info is put in an organized place. That site exist, but they may still use Discord for personal communication. Most of the other fighters on the market has their info scattered around on 6-7 sites/programs. A new player is not going to jump through hoops just to learn general info.

    U guys wanna b straight spoon fed don't u lol. U can do all this in discord if u know how to set up ur servers the right way. Whoever made the discord servers u join r just too stupid to know how to do it

    Even if they dont most fighting games have decent enough tutorials that u should b able to learn most of the basics of a game by just playing, if ur looking for combos then YouTube is ur friend then after that its just specific things. Getting into the FGC is never gonna b easy cause fighting games in general are not easy. The fact is yeah ur most likely gonna have to go to a few different places to find what u need it's been this way even before discord came around, but like I said if u know how to make a server properly on discord u don't need to do any of this
    Post edited by Sanada-kun on
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,682
    the irony here is people talking about not finding stuff on wiki and it being scattered in discord etc.
    but have you done anything to change that in a meaningful way?

    for the overwhelming majority I think it's a safe bet the answer is 'no'.

    did you imagine that information was just spontaneously generated?

    let's cut the shit about Japan please. you can easily go and read a Japanese wiki's frame data.
    you don't think they also casually share tons of information locally?
    they're not better than you because of wiki. they're better than you because they play. a lot.

    and if you want more than frame data well tough shit. maybe be nice to that person in the community who can translate Japanese and support them in a project to bring some topics into another language.
    Play more.
  • manbehindthewiresmanbehindthewires Consider yourself lightly, consider the world deeply Joined: Posts: 947
    You're going to collapse at the first sentence of this article, but this thread eminded me of it:

    www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-04-04-meet-the-street-fighter-5-coaches

    I think a lot of new gen players turned to Discord to have a space to ask "dumb" questions in - it's more fleeting in a space like that, it's not going to invoke an arguest that lives on the Internet forever, it's not going to be seen by a veteran that's going to swat it out of the sky. It's another consequence of having a reputation for being clique-ish and feral.I think there's an once of people just wanting to be told the things they want to hear, rather than some of the harder truths about fighting games (I have to practice!?) In there too, but by and large they're going there because it's easier or less scary than diving into the fgc with both feet.

    I disagree with a lot of the things in that article, regarding how the established fgc can and can't pass on its legacy, but you can't duck the fact that people are feeling that way and accepting the stereptypes so readily.

    Don't know the answer, but fighting the idea that it's hostile and finding a way to be a good source for newbies is in there somewhere.
    SFV: Chun Li [CFN: thewires / manbehindthewires]
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  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,470
    edited June 12
    There is a lot of useful stuff outside of frame data on japanese wikis.

    Also I helped with the SF4 srk wiki project, the usf4 bug testing thread, and the unlisted changes thread to help add context to the wiki.

    The dustloop and mizuumi wikis are great resources that have a lot more than just frame data, and those players seem to be more informed about nuances.

    People should be interested in expanding them and making wikis have more information, and I've helped a bit personally.

    Arcade culture obviously builds information in a way that is hard to replicate in any other way, but the solution isn't to not try. I'm not saying it's why JP players tend to be stronger, but it definitely can't hurt.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,038
    edited June 12
    I think some good players aren't that concerned about the permanence of information because very few people ever really put it into use. like is someone gonna write all their thoughts on a matchup down when...

    lots of people won't read it
    lots of people will read it but not understand it/never reach the level where it's useful to them
    the people who it would be useful for are already your friends and you can just message them privately about it
  • TKRTKR Inventor of Toe Socks Joined: Posts: 159
    I use Discord when I am in an online tournament. The mods will have a channel about the tournament and all tech talk and contact shit goes on in there. I don't use it for anything else.

    There are reason like its chaotic and you have to sift through all the crap to find something you might be after. Asking for help is the same as asking on a forum, yes its quicker, but it just speeds up the shitty responses you get from the trolls.

    But the one reason I personally don't use Discord. It takes people away from the forums and sites. Which means it takes add views away from forums. Which ultimately takes income away from the people we rely on it for top level events and the like. If people stop making money the whole FGC will collapse. It wouldn't have grown as big and fast as it did with the Oh Nine'rs if people weren't making money off of it.

    Passion isn't what keeps people in this community doing things for the community. Passion is just the reason they enter the community.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,682
    Veserius wrote: »
    There is a lot of useful stuff outside of frame data on japanese wikis.

    Also I helped with the SF4 srk wiki project, the usf4 bug testing thread, and the unlisted changes thread to help add context to the wiki.

    The dustloop and mizuumi wikis are great resources that have a lot more than just frame data, and those players seem to be more informed about nuances.

    People should be interested in expanding them and making wikis have more information, and I've helped a bit personally.

    Arcade culture obviously builds information in a way that is hard to replicate in any other way, but the solution isn't to not try. I'm not saying it's why JP players tend to be stronger, but it definitely can't hurt.

    if you're referring to what i said, i covered all that and i think you really misunderstood me.
    wikis are great. people who complain that there isn't a wiki for what they personally want, or they can't find some specific information on available wikis are scum.

    all of it relies on people deliberately sharing information.

    i am criticizing people who seem to think they deserve this information without doing any work themselves.

    to follow what bob said, there's a huge disconnect.
    it's most often a complete waste of time.
    so people share openly with those they know want to receive the information. everyone outside that is unknown and it's not worth the extra effort 9/10 times.

    several people now over the years have said they were going to do some kind of wiki project for 3S. either clean one up or do a new things, etc. whatever.
    i've always responded that i could help and give them all my collected data.
    none of them have ever followed through.

    this includes myself. i realized there was no point because the people who play, play already and i could just tell them stuff. the people who don't, don't.
    and if a messy wiki is an obstacle to them just playing the game, then they were never very interested in it to begin with.
    Play more.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 13,914 admin
    edited June 12
    I think so. Facebook and reddit and Discord are less useful imho than forum software. They each definitely have their own advantages, but I think each move has resulted in lower quality of community as we fracture slightly across platforms. But the IRC generally has remained popping for over a decade now, so ... it seems like there's a community for most everything.
    Raz0r wrote: »
    I dunno if they still own it but Cannons def don't run this site anymore. It's been like that for yeeeeeeeeeeeears.
    They still own it. I believe they still value the community-building that SRK forums help with.
    I see discord more of replacement of mIRC than anything else, I logged in the srk discord a few days ago for the first I didn't find anything worth reading and a few times i couldn't tell wtf people were talking about. it's too chaotic

    i believe many people including top players ran away from the hostile environment that was rampant around this site years ago. I could be wrong on this maybe it was something else.

    I can't remember the last time I saw a post of Mr Wizard
    I believe he's on pretty often, but just is doing his own thing. In theory there's no reason for posts by mods (or admins) as mods or admins most of the time - most of the time we should just be part of the crowd enjoying some great and/or flawed and/or excellent games.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
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  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 709
    Shari wrote: »
    This is easily solved with character discords and better stickies.

    It's no different from a really long thread here with a bad first post that's not maintained.

    Go to the GG discord.
    I want to learn Bedman.

    Resources channel has links to every main character discord, FAQS, Framedata and links for obvious things for all characters.

    The character discords that are well maintained have a good sticky/faq channel that teaches you the basics of the character with links to further information.
    Then they breakdown into sections like Matchups, Critique, Neutral, Oki, Generic Tech, General Media and so on and on.
    Along with the feature of pinning things to each subchannel saving really important posts from getting lost.

    I'm really not seeing the problem here. The only barrier to permanence on discord is people being too lazy to archive or sort through and maintain the channels.
    Just like it would be on any other medium like the old subforums here where there is tons of informations compiled over the years but tons of reading and searching to do to find it.

    Is the problem isolated to SF5 discords?
    Because i really haven't come across this issue in any game i've played so far.

    If anything Discord with the ease of instant communication to a large group has improved the availability of information and made it more accessible.


    Thank you. Someone gets its
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