RE:KOF98 Xiaohai vs Jojo

gaagaagaagaa Joined: Posts: 49
Part rant, part analysis, part smack talk. This is a response to youtube.com/user/Confucianism/ and various other comments on KOF98 小孩vsじょじょ. I'm posting here mainly because youtube didn't allow me.

So it started with me giving my two bits on gameplay, then it quickly jumped to button layouts, to tier list, and it ended with passive insults.

(Blurred comments are not relevant to this response)
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First and foremost, let me quote myself “The First to Ten set was not finished. Is it maybe because 1P sensed his 'download complete' nearing and decided to call it quits while he still has the upper hand? Who knows?!“ That's not an assumption like you claimed it to be. That's a question. See the question mark at the end? Geez! If anything you were the one to make assumptions about me making assumptions.
Then you accuse me of saying Xiaohai is noob when obviously I didn’t say that “Clearly you assume what you want about 2P being… and Xiaohai not familiar with any parts of the game?“.
You continue with your based off of nothing assumptions when you said “...Had his 2 and 3 started warming up, it would be a lopsided loss for 2P“. You gave no explanation to why you think that’s true. There's no such thing as warming up. You just came up with that for the sake of whatever. Nothing in this set indicates 1P was picking up steam, it was actually the other way around and it showed at the end. When Xiaohai picked Chizuru, he started strong, but as the rounds went by, his control began to decrease and we could see more and more of Iori and Chris. At that point, the momentum was surely shifting towards 2P’s side.
Next you wrote something really really ironic “Xiaohai was basically playing 1 character only”. Such logic can only mean one thing; it was the character (Chizuru), and not the player, who won the set.

Moreover, have you ever heard of the term Sandbagging before? No? Okay.
It's when a player chooses not to play their best because they feel too superior at ego, or they want to belittle and poke fun at their opponents, or they want to strip them the chance of having a good match, or they want to play it safe so that even if they lose they would find an excuse like “I didn’t play my best”, or there's nothing on the line so why bother getting serious, or all of that stuff.
Xiaohai using roulette against Jojo is straight up scumbag coonery. And the fact that he couldn't pull it off then had to switch back to his tier counter picking does not help his case at all. Had he won a couple games with roulette, I wouldn’t have said anything. But he didn’t. He failed miserably at sandbagging.
How is that cool with you? I don't know. It is disrespect, point... blank... period!

Now to the heart of the matter. “Without any of his characters 2P would be a completely different player as well“ That might apply for 1P but not 2P. Jojo in any serious context would never change his characters. Kyo Daimon Yashiro are Jojo, and Jojo is Kyo Daimon Yashiro. Too bad it is your boy Xiaohai who’s known for counter picking.

Japanese players have a tendency to go with their favorites, characters they like and not necessarily top tiers. They are also renowned for sticking to their characters no matter what, which btw is true for a lot of games and not just KOF. These guys won’t substitute, say, a Daimon for an Iori just because the opponent has Chang, Chizuru, and/or Mature in their team. Furthermore, there are players who have engraved their mark on specific character combinations that teams can be referred to by these players’ name.For instance Yama-chan team, Oogosho team, Raian team, Hummer team, Hayato team, OZ team...etc. Other players are those best known for their excellence with one character; 777 has Kim, Kikko and Tarokichi have Chang, Jaa has Choi, Basketu-Bu has Vice, Maxima has Mary, Shingo has Athena, Hiroto has Robert, Sue has Ryo (w/o abusing dp), Yukino has Yamazaki… and so on. Many take it even further by picking the same color scheme and order every time. Akihisa picks original colors, while Oogosho does color coordination. Akihisa adapts his order depending on the opponent, and Oogosho puts Yashiro, Daimon, Ralf always in that order regardless of matchup.
Jojo is no different; he has the same passion for KOF98. You won't see Jojo play another team other than Kyo(color A), Daimon(B), ura.Yashiro(D) in that specific order. It’s his signature.
Please keep in mind the original uploader of this set is Tarokichi たろ吉. He’s good friends with Jojo and I don’t think he would’ve uploaded it if Jojo didn’t approve of it. The fact that it’s here for us to watch and talk about speaks volumes of their sportsmanship.

That was Japan, let’s move on to China.

Just recently, I've watched Dakou (Kyo/Robert, Iori, ura.Chris) lose 9 to 18 versus Hui Hui(Chizuru, Iori, Daimon). Most of his losses were to a dull, brain dead Chizuru. The set was another fine example of “it’s the character, not the player”. Dakou didn’t even complete the set; he was pummeled down to the point of rage quitting.
When it comes to KOF98, playing with a win-at-all-costs mentality is a Chinese trademark. Of course it goes without saying that not all Chinese players are like this, but just check out their tournaments and streams, swarms of Ioris, Daimons, Chizurus, and Chris fighting each other. When was the last time you saw a Chinese player pick Joe, Vice, Choi, Mary, Yamazaki, or any member of Psycho Soldiers team (aka China team) in a high level tournament?
Throughout several years of watching and playing KOF98, and by reading the comments posted on many videos, I’ve came to the conclusion that Xioahai is a villain. Many people despise him for being a “douchebag” and having no heart. He’ll counter pick when needed and play an abusive, shameless game.

Bottom line is that Japanese show hints of honor even in a stupid video game while the Chinese (again, not everyone - I can’t stress this enough) are more into the concept of “business is business”.
Korean, Taiwanese, and Hong Kongese KOF98 scene is gray area for me.

In any case, let’s dissect the game at hand.

It is common knowledge among KOF circles that The Infamous 5 are almost all equal in strength except for 1st and 5th character.
Chizuru is at top because she doesn’t suffer any real bad matchups against the other four. Chris is basically the same as Iori but seeing that a lot of players choose to put him at anchor, he’s at 2nd place. Many argue that Iori has an edge over Daimon owing to his low profile and run-and-gun style, but then others say Daimon comes with the destructive setups and loops. So for 3rd spot it just boils down to preference. ura.Yashiro, a spinoff character of Daimon, places 5th with nothing remarkable to match his peers in the list.

With that piece of information, here are the matchups:
1- Chizuru > Kyo , Chizuru >> Daimon , Chizuru >> Yashiro
2- Iori = Kyo , Iori > Daimon , Iori > Yashiro
3- Chris > Kyo , Chris > Daimon , Chris > Yashiro

And here are some case scenarios to help you visualize just how much 2P has to overcome:
[Average case 1 : eye for eye]
Chizuru > Kyo
Iori = Kyo
Iori > Daimon
Chris > Daimon
Chris > Yashiro

[Average case 2 : eye for eye]
Chizuru > Kyo
Chizuru >> Daimon
Iori > Daimon
Iori > Yashiro
Chris > Yashiro

[2P’s worst case]
Chizuru > Kyo
Chizuru >> Daimon
Chizuru >> Yashiro
Iori > Yashiro
Chris > Yashiro

[2P’s best case]
Chizuru > Kyo
Iori = Kyo
Chris > Kyo
Chris > Daimon
Chris > Yashiro

Personally, I think Kyo vs Chizuru is the key round. It’s crucial for Jojo to perform well here, either by lowering her life so that Daimon could finish the job cleanly before meeting Iori, or better still, by defeating her and propelling Daimon to an easy round vs Iori.

[Occurring case]
Chizuru > Kyo
Iori = Kyo
Iori > Daimon
Chris > Daimon
Chris > Yashiro

Like I said, we started seeing more of Iori and Chris towards the end. Jojo was definitely making progress with his Kyo versus Chizuru. Then out of nowhere the set ended 8 to 6. 2P was left eager for more.

Okay now let’s talk about the remaining rounds.
Every time Iori or Chris play, they got a significant meter lead thanks to: 1) Chizuru being a battery character (i.e. a character that can build meter quickly and effectively) and 2) the advantage system granting Xiaohai even more POW stocks to use.
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Meanwhile, Jojo’s characters were suffering a POW drought due to all the defense he had to do against Chizuru.
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That right there made the matchups even harder for Jojo to manage. Whenever Yashiro makes it past Chizuru, he’s at such a low health he can’t dear to budge. And with all the meter in the world, Iori and Chris were mauling Yashiro to death with GCCD. Any risk he’d take would result in losing a match if he failed. Simply put, Yashiro didn’t stand a chance.
Despite that, Jojo was making things work out. He gave Iori a run for his money to the point where there are comments below asserting this is fake Xiaohai and not he’s usual Iori gameplay (according to them, Iori played his lamest ever). Chris choked a lot and was toyed with; just look at that comeback around 18:26 and 35:06. You were also wrong in saying “Xiaohai’s 2nd and 3rd were not as effective”. It was actually 3 of his characters to be owned; his Daimon was and would get rekt.


What else do you want me to say to make you believe Chizuru saved Xiaohai? Idk?!
NOOB, YOU ARE NEXT TO BE PETRIFIED!
@ggaclassics

Comments

  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,703
    That's a wall of text for something that just sounds like a scrub bitching about gamesmanship in a game they weren't even involved in.

    Xiaohai is notorious for spending a game or two analyzing player tendencies and conditioning his opponent to do what he wants him to.

    He did that at SCR against both Reynald in KOF14 and Haitani in SFV.

    He did that to NuckleDu at ELEAGUE, and did that to most of the round robin in group play.

    I don't see how this is any different from his standard MO. If doing this is "straight up coonery" in your eyes, maybe you should try out competitive knitting as a hobby. I hear there's less conditioning tactics there.
    XBL: WatCnBrwnDo4U | PSN: LanierIsPlusEV | CFN: MissingPerson GGPO/FightCade: Missing Person | Steam: [TAS] Missing Person | Battle.net: MissingPersn#1365
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  • gaagaagaagaa Joined: Posts: 49
    Again, disregarding the entirety of the post and going for the one part you think you could easily bite with Ad hominem.
    We're talking about KOF98 and this guy brings up KOFXIV then SFV... okay!

    Yes I've seen a couple of his SFV sets where he comes from winners, gets rest, then still manages to win. But SF is a different game, so don't try it.
    SCR KOFXIV Reynald vs Xiaohai? I've watched that set.
    Xiaohai came from losers, he had no rounds to spare doing what you claimed. In fact, I thought Reynald was the one throwing away rounds, playing Shin at anchor.

    Although, I must say I like the word choice
    64FzqNH.png

    If he had started the set holding back or playing conservatively with an Iori Daimon ura.Chris team, then I would have agreed with you. But no he just wasted those rounds playing roulette. What can you extract from 3 matches playing matchups you won't run into again? KOF is mostly reactions and that makes it even harder to analyze anything.
    Plus, Sandbagging could be easily mistaken for what you called "analyzing".


    NOOB, YOU ARE NEXT TO BE PETRIFIED!
    @ggaclassics
  • gaagaagaagaa Joined: Posts: 49
    edited June 19
    [Ignore this. Fixed]
    Post edited by gaagaa on
    NOOB, YOU ARE NEXT TO BE PETRIFIED!
    @ggaclassics
  • EmerganceEmergance Joined: Posts: 17
    this is sad
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