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Dragon Ball FighterZ General: DBZ Subforum Edition

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  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 10,712
    Genistar wrote: »
    With how people are talking about gohan's assist being so good. I can see a lot of happy birthdays because of mis use.

    its the closest thing the game has to a psylocke/(vanilla mvc3)tron bonne-haggar assist so yeah that's why its being treated as a big deal.

    I don't see any real happy birthdays happening cause I get to downback and block while I smash the assist button for an invincible move, which is the whole reason its strong.
  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper =D Joined: Posts: 3,136
    Stronger players will learn quickly when it's most effective... If it's as strong as we are assuming.

    Personally I didn't play Marvel 2 competitively but in Vanilla Marvel 3, Haggar and Tron assists were extremely dominant, and I don't remember many situations in high level matches where players were getting blown up with Happy Bdays for using them.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,244 mod
    Stronger players will learn quickly when it's most effective... If it's as strong as we are assuming.

    Personally I didn't play Marvel 2 competitively but in Vanilla Marvel 3, Haggar and Tron assists were extremely dominant, and I don't remember many situations in high level matches where players were getting blown up with Happy Bdays for using them.

    Yeah the most defensive assists are almost always the strongest in these types of games. Mainly because they usually double as defensive while setting up offense while other assists only really improve offense.

    Hecatom wrote: »

    What majors?




    NEC just happened with about 160 or so people and was the 3rd most entered game at NEC. So yeah, there still are majors for the game (beating Injustice 2 which has a bigger pro tour).

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 24,349
    True, but lets not forget that this game also has free DHCs
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  • UsagiJojoUsagiJojo Joined: Posts: 15
    edited January 3
    its the closest thing the game has to a psylocke/(vanilla mvc3)tron bonne-haggar assist so yeah that's why its being treated as a big deal.

    I don't see any real happy birthdays happening cause I get to downback and block while I smash the assist button for an invincible move, which is the whole reason its strong.
    Exactly. Invincible assists were so good in Marvel 2 that essentially useless point characters could be thrown into the third character slot to form a top tier team.

    So like, even if Gohan were a bad point character, he could still potentially be on everyone's team anyway.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,244 mod
    That's the thing about Marvel. You lose options and tools once you lose characters any ways, so it's better to bank on stacking yourself the best than just putting 3 good characters that don't protect themselves in the neutral optimally. No one in DBZ is going to be as bad on point as CapCom so that forces the issue of picking an optimal team even more so. You know you're going to get more juice out of them than the Marvel 2 assists if it comes down to them.
    Hecatom wrote: »
    True, but lets not forget that this game also has free DHCs


    Best that does is just force people to be smarter about calling the best assists. If everyone team can do hail storm to blow up assists that's nice, but you better have CapCom or Hidden Missiles also.
    It's worth noting that calling assists in this game have giant red 'please punish me' flags with the character portraits popping up in a position where's it's easy to see. Such a thing makes reacting easier. You KNOW there's gonna be some poor soul within week 1 who's going to call double assists against Kid Gohan and receive a triple punish of Father-Son-Holy Spirit-meHA and half his team is gone


    Not going to matter a ton at high level from what I'm seeing. Scrub play, maybe.

    High level I'm already seeing that Vegeta's assist is almost in active frames by the time you can visually react to that portrait. Plenty of ways to make sure you're in a safe spot before calling.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,916

    Not going to matter a ton at high level from what I'm seeing. Scrub play, maybe.

    High level I'm already seeing that Vegeta's assist is almost in active frames by the time you can visually react to that portrait. Plenty of ways to make sure you're in a safe spot before calling.

    Depends on the assist. Several assists have the image pop out, the assist arriving, then perform the move. Really quick ones like Freeza and Trunks are fine, but a bunch of them have delays before execution, and a good chunk of the slow ones are really good like Nappa's, Gotenks, and Kid Buu.

    Also, while everyone's all excited for Gohan, I'm honestly more interested in 18's safe zone assist.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,244 mod
    edited January 3

    Not going to matter a ton at high level from what I'm seeing. Scrub play, maybe.

    High level I'm already seeing that Vegeta's assist is almost in active frames by the time you can visually react to that portrait. Plenty of ways to make sure you're in a safe spot before calling.

    Depends on the assist. Several assists have the image pop out, the assist arriving, then perform the move. Really quick ones like Freeza and Trunks are fine, but a bunch of them have delays before execution, and a good chunk of the slow ones are really good like Nappa's, Gotenks, and Kid Buu.

    Also, while everyone's all excited for Gohan, I'm honestly more interested in 18's safe zone assist.

    If that's the case then the premium is easily going to be on the faster assists that are already on the screen by the time you can visually react to the portrait. Vegeta is going to be easy go to just for that. Locks down easy and can easily throw something after the call to cover the start up if you're dealing with dangerous meter blow up.


    That's also why I believe 18 is going to be a premium because in 3v3 you give yourself a ridiculous advantage with double call neutral assist + 18 assist block. Other than DHC blow up that's pretty OP just in concept.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,916

    Not going to matter a ton at high level from what I'm seeing. Scrub play, maybe.

    High level I'm already seeing that Vegeta's assist is almost in active frames by the time you can visually react to that portrait. Plenty of ways to make sure you're in a safe spot before calling.

    Depends on the assist. Several assists have the image pop out, the assist arriving, then perform the move. Really quick ones like Freeza and Trunks are fine, but a bunch of them have delays before execution, and a good chunk of the slow ones are really good like Nappa's, Gotenks, and Kid Buu.

    Also, while everyone's all excited for Gohan, I'm honestly more interested in 18's safe zone assist.

    If that's the case then the premium is easily going to be on the faster assists that are already on the screen by the time you can visually react to the portrait. Vegeta is going to be easy go to just for that. Locks down easy, not reacting to that unless it's a terrible call.


    That's also why I believe 18 is going to be a premium because in 3v3 you give yourself a ridiculous advantage with double call neutral assist + 18 assist block. Other than DHC blow up that's pretty OP just in concept.

    Didn't stop Missiles from being everywhere and in everything. Missiles were one of the most vulnerable things on the planet and there was plenty of counterplay available.

    Nearly everyone has a fullscreen punish/projectile, and DEFINITELY everyone has teleporting. That alone makes me question using assists in neutral like some of the more busted assists from Marvel.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,244 mod
    edited January 3

    Not going to matter a ton at high level from what I'm seeing. Scrub play, maybe.

    High level I'm already seeing that Vegeta's assist is almost in active frames by the time you can visually react to that portrait. Plenty of ways to make sure you're in a safe spot before calling.

    Depends on the assist. Several assists have the image pop out, the assist arriving, then perform the move. Really quick ones like Freeza and Trunks are fine, but a bunch of them have delays before execution, and a good chunk of the slow ones are really good like Nappa's, Gotenks, and Kid Buu.

    Also, while everyone's all excited for Gohan, I'm honestly more interested in 18's safe zone assist.

    If that's the case then the premium is easily going to be on the faster assists that are already on the screen by the time you can visually react to the portrait. Vegeta is going to be easy go to just for that. Locks down easy, not reacting to that unless it's a terrible call.


    That's also why I believe 18 is going to be a premium because in 3v3 you give yourself a ridiculous advantage with double call neutral assist + 18 assist block. Other than DHC blow up that's pretty OP just in concept.

    Didn't stop Missiles from being everywhere and in everything. Missiles were one of the most vulnerable things on the planet and there was plenty of counterplay available.

    Nearly everyone has a fullscreen punish/projectile, and DEFINITELY everyone has teleporting. That alone makes me question using assists in neutral like some of the more busted assists from Marvel.

    That's kinda the point. Do you see anything in the game so far that is like hidden missiles level of utility where you have to deal with it even if you clearly see it come out on screen? I'd like to know which assists you're seeing that would have that type of utility where you're pretty much forced to deal with it. Missiles tracked you wherever you went. To the point where you needed plink flight movement just to maybe avoid them. Not seeing anything in this game assist wise that literally forces you to deal with it other than 18's assist.

    Full screen projectile punish is the only thing I see that would really deter assist use, but again all it does is just force clean assists calls. Marvel 2/3 Storm could freeze assists on screen from almost anywhere, but people still slammed on assists all of the time any way because a lot of the best ones were either invincible or just had good hit boxes where it was still worth it. You just had to call cleaner vs storm and she was still giving up resource to do that.

    Teleports are nice, but that forces your point character in a position where they are essentially baited. If they teleport, then likely you just teleport with them. Depending on mechanics best they could do is call assist or DHC after port which you could just counter call on them after your port.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 59,244 mod
    edited January 3
    I have to go to the doctors so I cant make a long post right now.. but what the fuck game are you guys talking about right now? Im all for theory fighter. Its fun.. but you guys are talking about theorys that dont even exist in the game as it stands right now. Maybe the final version will change, but the ideas you guys are talking about currently dont exist in the general idea of the game mechanically speaking.

    Lock down? With moves that dont do REAL block stun in the current versions of the game? is this some kinda theory that if it changes? I mean whats the difference between me saying then, I think vegito should be last because he requires a lot of meter to do final kamehameha and if you go into blue it drains his health.

    Well ok that theory is cool. But technically as it stands that point is moot because he doesnt exist in the game.

    Im not even sure what is actually being talked about, again I like theory fighter, but people are talking about ideas that have been disproven months ago as being legitimate. So ya a lot of these assist ideas are fun, but currently they are assuming mechanically speaking the game changes in the final version.

    Actually speaking of a longer post I forgot to respond to that one post a few posts ago. But basically I took it as, lets dislike claytons posts, but once again 6 months in a row, he was right about everything so lets try to change the subject. I know its hard being a genius thank you.

    Some of the theories may not work out exactly in practice, but the game is pretty much destined to be around best invincible/projectile assist plus other good characters. I mean it's not like it's going to be tiered around who doesn't have good assists. Even if supposedly you can just slip out of block stun all of the time, that isn't going to change strong assists being the best deal to base your team around. Assists are assists. They're not a 5 to 7 bar super. They take up space on screen without you having to commit to anything. That's why they're good and why they'll be good in this game.


    Besides if it's not that then people are just looking at you huff and puff about combos that work or don't work, so that's not amazing either.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,916
    edited January 3
    Of the ones so far, the ones I previously listed (Nappa, Kid Buu, Gotenks) seem the most likely to have a good impact in neutral, followed by Vegeta and both Gohans of course. Hit might also see use for his anti-projectile stuff.

    I will concede the portrait thing though, as I took a closer look at all the assists and while older builds had the portrait show when the assist was called, newer builds the portraits only show up once the active frames start.
    I have to go to the doctors so I cant make a long post right now.. but what the fuck game are you guys talking about right now?

    Marvel 3 mostly. Some Marvel 2.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper =D Joined: Posts: 3,136
    With that charge time I wonder if it's unblockable
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 10,712
    UsagiJojo wrote: »
    its the closest thing the game has to a psylocke/(vanilla mvc3)tron bonne-haggar assist so yeah that's why its being treated as a big deal.

    I don't see any real happy birthdays happening cause I get to downback and block while I smash the assist button for an invincible move, which is the whole reason its strong.
    Exactly. Invincible assists were so good in Marvel 2 that essentially useless point characters could be thrown into the third character slot to form a top tier team.

    So like, even if Gohan were a bad point character, he could still potentially be on everyone's team anyway.

    I hope its shit, or another assist can be used like that cause I hate gohan and don't wanna use him :sad:

    But If I gotta I will, all for the Glory of Nappa and Fat Buu.
  • a15kkoa15kko Joined: Posts: 6,083
    I have to go to the doctors so I cant make a long post right now..

    lmao at it being long anyway

  • dizzynecrodizzynecro Change is good. Joined: Posts: 1,020

    But i guess @dialupsucky kinda told us that already

    Yeah once or twice.
  • SnakeofNinjutsuSnakeofNinjutsu Kallen Kouzuki FTW Joined: Posts: 346
    Didn't play the closed beta. How do you reflect?
    P4A - Elizabeth
    IGAU - Catwoman
    Jojo - Dio/Giorno
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,849
    edited January 4
    So now the name of the game becomes, what is the best thing to do to bait and then punish a reflect attempt. And after your opponent gets a reflect, what is in general the safest option to take.

    And expect reflect to get nerfed straight to the depths of the underworld in future patches.

    That said as annoying as this is, reflect mostly just resets to neutral. Yohosie mentioned that command grabs will be strong early on in the meta. Reflect is probably why SO many characters have command grabs.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • Kuroi AimaKuroi Aima Joined: Posts: 496
    Didn't play the closed beta. How do you reflect?

    4S
  • Evil CanadianEvil Canadian T.Hawk is a good guy Joined: Posts: 10,712
    Kuroi Aima wrote: »
    Didn't play the closed beta. How do you reflect?

    4S

    i hated that character in nier automata
  • flighflighflugitflighflighflugit Joined: Posts: 1,913
    Is deflect active frame one only to projectiles or all attacks? I'm also curious how many active frames it actually has.
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 24,349
    EmblemLord wrote: »
    So now the name of the game becomes, what is the best thing to do to bait and then punish a reflect attempt. And after your opponent gets a reflect, what is in general the safest option to take.

    And expect reflect to get nerfed straight to the depths of the underworld in future patches.

    That said as annoying as this is, reflect mostly just resets to neutral. Yohosie mentioned that command grabs will be strong early on in the meta. Reflect is probably why SO many characters have command grabs.

    Knowing ASW, i am not even sure if we will have to wait that long.
    For all what we know that could have already changed for the new beta/end build. (Or not :rofl:)

    Sometimes they add some really busted stuff on their betas/location tests just to remove them on the final release.
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
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  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So wait.. Clayton was right again? Who is this guy. How has he been right about everything he said in this thread since the game was announced and other games when ever he posts about them?

    Why do people need to constantly have someone else say its true and then its true but when I say it.. it wasnt true.. Why would I waste my time posting about the game the strats for it, meta, combos etc just to lie about it? I know its a meme to lie on the internet but I have better things to do with my life. Ive been right other games as well that ive posted. Its almost like you guys are gonna make me have to enter some tournaments again win them so people remember my name besides from combo videos or something... but meh I know I have no plan to do that so. Hell lets watch what my one min theory about ginyu be true as well. Rather than be a complicated kinda character he looks pretty simple and easy to get a gist of what youre doing. As long as you can cancel his hards in the air to ginyu force. And he follows other rules of the game chain wise with his regular buttons. Hell fuck if the final version of the game stays the same maybe ill do a combo video for him first even though I dont care for him.

    Anyway sad thing is this conversation I tried to have a few pages ago, and even months and months ago, and I was trying to have conversations about how to bait reflect and i talked about the characters that can rinse repeat their fireballs and strats against it. Because ya months ago I said deflecting was to good, and theres nothing to stop anyone from doing it right now when you can, theres no risk to do it, and even my one theory proves true that I posted many times its actually kinda SAFE to do. So all you can do is try then guess what as the situation is in a way back at neutral.

    I think the game should have moves programed in that can not be deflected. So you could theoretically have situations where you get the guy stuck deflecting things, and then you do your "deflect break" or whatever kinda mumbo jumbo name they give it.
  • NupoChromineNupoChromine Art By: Matthew Griffin Joined: Posts: 5,064
    ((Are you Clayton?))
    What is like $2500 a month?
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ha actually I had a pretty extreme life. My family in general is not very lovey dovey. Abuse blah blah. Told dad he was gonna die he went and shot himself anyway blah blah.. Even when i was first having that dying stuff going on I actually kinda told friends if things go bad, and I was thinking about making a will I didnt want anything to go to my family. But thats another story lol. I mean thats why I liked video games as a kid to escape things, I wanted to have a different life, I grew up a nerd, unpopular getting beat up at the bus stop everyday. Thats why even after getting a job as a model I still played video games. Im just a nerd. Got sick and well, im still a nerd even if I dont enter tournaments anymore. I enjoy the thought even though at the end of the day I only have so much will or motivation to play them. Im fine with being a adult and just enjoying a hobby by making combo videos for them or randomly talking about them on a forum. But hey I guess people would rather say my posts are long, yet they will read twitters busted up 10 post responses to get something they could have somewhere else.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,849
    It's all coming together

    It's like...you need to "prove" yourself all the time in a videogame of all things.

    Bruh.

    We all respect you.

    Chill dawg.

    And dammit stop feeling like you need to prove yourself all the time.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,238
    Now it all makes sense.
  • a15kkoa15kko Joined: Posts: 6,083
    I need to buy a stick for this game
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    On another subject I still want some to establish the ginyu thing I said. That should be something immediate that should be tested in terms of meta of the game. Because again rather than being complicated hes actually pretty simple and breaks the rules of the basic ideas of the game. I mean think about it a general idea of the game is you duck h as anti air, characters do air combo that ends in a hard knock down. Then if we have super we OTG super... But this rule doesnt even apply to ginyu. Ginyu does the hard, and then he does either ki button or qcf+s. Assuming how fast it is they could come out and juggle the guy before they hit the ground, you jump up air combo them again, you end with hard again they start to fly again but you canceled to special again, they get popped back up again.

    I mean look at his moves, they almost all are doing the same thing even if they look differently. He potentially has his own loops. He doesnt need meter in situations where other characters dont. And if they are slow to combo, you can do the qcf+s, dude wakes up into your sorta "meaty" versions of the attacks that hit longer. Purple comet takes to long to come out? You do hard, knocks them down, qcf+s, you fall guy is sliding you do your actual super now. Purple comet is now on the screen super hits them up to purple comet you now recover you now combo them.

    He actually seems like I said potentially pretty brain dead "scrubby" to me. Only potential conundrum being the qcf+s guldo one, but the other 3 serving a similar function in terms of being a meaty/mix up kinda vibe, some better some a little slower than others. But in the situation described it should be no problem.

    Maybe more complicated in the grand scheme of characters in the game I guess. But this game currently speaking is so limited in terms of move set nothing is really rocket science. So ya as long as he doesnt follow some of his own random rules, he still can chain the same way, doesnt have absolute ass priority on his attacks/horrendous damage whatever. He seems potentially pretty good to me. Cuz if he hits the dude, well he could potentially change the general dynamic of how things work.
  • LiangHuBBBLiangHuBBB Joined: Posts: 2,318
    Does anyone know if this game has a replay channel like SFV?
    www.youtube.com/user/LiangHuBBB
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