Ryu's Parry - Advantage and Punishes

ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
edited September 18 in Ryu
I wanted to write this because there is little information on Ryu parry. Seeing how it uses or advantage can vary from character to character and the general opinion that its not good, I could understand why.

But, Since I've started picking up the character seriously with Season 2.1 (because i'm stubborn) and simply enjoy parrying with him, it bothers me that this info isn't easily available. So I'm gonna write down how advantage he is after every move in the cast and, what I think is the best punish for the job. Partly just for myself but also because it'll be nice to have all of this easy to find for others and hopefully someone finds this useful.

General information

Determining advantage after parry
We take whatever you're parrying and use; Remaining active frames of the move + recovery frames of the move -5 = advantage

Parrying an air normal
Normally you do not want to parry a jump in because they can easily empty jump and punish you for big damage, This does not mean you shouldn't do it only that you cannot rely on it. If you establish that you will parry a jump in it will make your other anti airs more reliable to use.
- If you go for a parry it is best to do it for a crossup. Otherwise you are better off just using Shoryu or St.Hk for damage.
- Advantage will vary depending on how deep the jump in is. Also spacing of the jump will vary your punish. But in general, parrying the jump in will change the timing for what there following combo would be (Ex. Ken Jmp.Hk, Cr.mp, TC). A lot of people miss this and you can go for a grab immediately after or st.mp combo into Shoryu . If they're smart, they will probably mash out jab, in this case you can just do a st.lp, st.lk confirm into shoryu.

Parrying a light is never worth it
There too fast even for a prediction. If its used in a blockstring there probably to plus for you to even parry. You either get nothing for a punish or its incredibly mediocre.

Parrying Fireballs are to close space only
Most of the roster with a fireball is better than yours, if only because they have a slow version they can follow. which leads into a followup that will test your timing or just bait and Crush Counter you.
- Avoid parrying slow fireballs. Leave it for the medium or fastest versions.
- Your priority is to walk forward, Not to parry fireballs. See Fireball, Walk forward, parry, walk forward should be the ideal to ignoring a fireball war you can't win. You could also go for a hado yourself immediately after a parry depending on your spacing.
- For Guile Sonic Crosses, don't even bother. He has too much advantage to the point where you wont move forward or get baited.

Parry VReversal
This assumes you OS after a St.Mp. Every character can be dealt a Solar Plexus combo except for Birdie, M.Bison and Ibuki. You must use either St.Hk or B.Hk(For Ibuki) to max damage these 3. This will also not work on Chun Li, Ken, or Zangief because there VReversal startup is to fast for St.Mp.


Character Specific

I want to start things off with whats considered the top tier characters and and then the rest of the cast. I will be adding them one at a time because there's alot.
All punishes listed will not account for Ex or Vtrigger.

Advantage on normal are very similar between character, with the difference being range/spacing. Once I've gone over enough characters I'll look at a "General Punish" for normals that cover the majority of the roster.

Akuma
Standing
Lp) +3
- L.Shoryu will work at max range
Mp) +11
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
Hp) +21
-St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu
-- St.Hk will crush Counter if they go for target combo
Lk)+7
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mk)+12
- St. Hk, St.Lk x tatsu
-- unless Akuma St.mk is point blank, trying to go for shoryu will whiff.
Hk)+17
-Solar Plexus

Crouching
Lp0+2
-Nothing
Mp)+9
- St.Mp, St,Hp
Hp)+14
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Lk) +3
-L.Shoryuken
Mk)+10
- Cr.Mp x Hado
Hk)+20
-Solar Plexus

Akuma canceling his normals can be tricky
- Must parry immediately for all versions shoryuken, Ex. Hadou, Mk/Hk Tatsu and Ex Hyakki Gozan,
- For everything else go with St.Mp to punish. This should beat/trade with everything else
- H.Shoryu is also an option and should stll work if they dont cancel into anything. You are simply giving up damage

Tenmakujinkyaku ( F.Jump, D.Mk) +7
- ST.Mp, Cr.Mp x tatsu

Zugaihasatsu (F.Mp)+18
-Solar Plexus

Sekiseiken (F.HP)+19
- Solar Plexus

Tenha (B.HP)+22
-B.Hp, St.Lk x Shoryu
-- Will beat cancel into hado

VSkill) +25
- Solar Plexus
Reversal) +20
-Solar Plexus, Cr.Mp x Tatsu
-- Will get pushed to far back for Cr.Hp to land

Tatsumaki) varies min +20

Hyakki Gozan)
- Sweep at max range, any closer Cr.Hp Shoyru
Ex
- Shoryuken
Hyakkishu > Hyakki Gosho)
- St.Lp, St.Lk x tatsu
Hyakkishu > Hyakki Gojin)
-B.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu

Alex
Standing
Lp) +4
- St.Lk x Shoryu
Mp) +8
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) +19
- Solar Plexus
Lk) +5
- Jodan Sanrengeki
-- The Hp can whiff at max range
Mk) +12
- St.Mp x H.Tatsu OR Sweep
Hk) +21
- Solar Plexus

Crouching
Lp) +3
- L.Shoryu
-- will whiff at max range
Mp)+13
- St/Cr.Mp x Hadou at max range
Hp)+23
- Solar Plexus
Lk)+3
- Nothing at max range
Mk)+14
- Sweep at distance
Hk) +20
- Solar Plexus

Chop) +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x tatsu
Lariat) + 14
- St.Hk, St.Lk x tatsu/ Shoryu
Flying Cross Chop) +17 or more
- Solar Plexus

To cover all cancels go with St.Mp or Grab. This will beat out everything. Only whiffing on Air Stampede/ Head crush. However, you should recover in time to neutral jump and punish. St.Mp will not beat the armour on Ex Slash Elbow

St.Hk can Crush Counter Slash/Chop but you won't recover intime for some vers of Stampede/Head Crush and you'l have to deal with armor on Ex.Slash Elbow.

Worst Case is Alex tries to read/react to you and cancel into Power Bomb. L/Ex Shoryu is your only option to cover everything. Unless you want the read and neutral jump it.

VReversal )+15 but actaully +17?
- Using the formula we should be left at +15, but trying it in training mode we are still able to get Solar Plexus. Not sure why.

Flash Chop) +17L/ 16M/18H/14EX
- St. Hk for all of them
-- If Alex tries the Followup with H.Flash Chop, he will get crush countered be St.Hk

Slash Elbow) min + 17
- Solar Plexus

Air Stampede) 14L/18M/19H/15EX
- St.Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu/ Tatsu

Not worth it overall since you can neutral jump it for more damage and cover head crush this way.

Vtrigger +46
- Neutral J.H, St.Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu

Balrog
Standing
Lp) +3
- St.Lp or L.Shoryu. Both will whiff at farther ranges
Mp) +11
- St. Mp, Jodan Sanrengeki
Hp) +15
- St.Hk, st.lk, depending on range M.Tatsu or H.Shoryu
-- The Lk should work if they are max range. if not you can just Hk. Tatsu

Lk) +4
- st. lk x m.tatsu
- -You can get light light shoryu if your right next to them but this is not reliable
Mk) +9
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
-- Should work at max range
--- You get pushed to far back for a st.mp, cr.hp
Hk) +15
- St.hk, st.lk, H.SHoryu/M.Tatsu depending on range

Crouching
Lp) +4
- st. lk, H.Shoryu
-- Shoryu can whiff at a max range. But should not be a situation/blockstring that leaves you parrying a cr.lk.
--- You can go with st. mp in case they try to keep pressing buttons.
Mp) +9
- St. Lk x H.Shoryu is best here. Could miss at max range but in a block string you shouldn't be far enough where it will miss.
- Will also beat out a canceled dash Straight.
Hp) +21
- Solar plexus, cr.hp x shoryu

Lk) +5
- St. Mp x H.Shoryu.
Mk) +13
Hp. Shoryu
-Covers it at max distance and will still win out if they go for target combo.
-- If there in close range you can go for standard st.mp, Cr.hp combo. This will get beat out by target combo. If you predict TC go with St.lp, St.mp. Lp will hit CH and and gives you either a Mk x m.tatsu or Jodan Nirengeki.
Hk) + 22
- Solar Plexus into combo of your choice
-- If you're to far out just go straight for H.Shoryu

Vskill P) + 17
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Vskill K) +16
- St. Hk, St.Lk. Shoryu
-- gets pushed back for a St.Mp, Cr.Hp combo

If they try to MKxMP TC you on block, and go for vskill P/K you can parry. Of course can be baited by an empty vskill, so watch for that.

Vreversal) +20
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Dash Straight) +22
- all versions can be hit with Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu, except for EX (I have no idea why this doesn't work)
-- go with st.mp, cr.hp for EX.

Dash Grand Blow) +22 Ex +19
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu. will work on all version

Screw Smash) minor differences but all of them are over +17
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu. will work on all version

Vtrigger Given how much Balrog can vary his charges in vtrigger I wont bother with advantage

Dash Straight)
-St. Hk into whatever
-- this will Crush if they go for another straight ,bursting buffalo,or vskill and will still hit if they stop
Ex.Dash Straight)
- St. Hk all the same
-- Only need to parry first hit. they can try for the second hit or vskill but immediately go for Hk and you'll still beat it.
Grand blow)
- Cr.Hp
-- Will counter hit if they try anything
--- we cannot go for St.Hk here because of its startup. Will be beaten out if they cancel into anything
Ex. Grand Blow)
- Cr.Hp all the same applies

Tap) +18 on all levels
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Hp x Shoryu. will work on all version

Birdie
Don't bother parrying Birdie. His buttons are too long reaching. so anything spaced out, the best your getting is a sweep or tatsu.

Standing
Lp) +6
- St.Mp x Tatsu
-- at max range nothing will hit in time.
Mp) - 12
- Sweep at a distance and will catch bull cancel. can miss at max range.
Hp) +17
- H.Tatsu at distance. Nothing else will reach farther out
Lk) +3
- Nothing at a distance so go with St/Cr.Mp to catch buttons
Mk) +13
-Sweep or M.Tatsu at a distance
Hk) +17
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Mp x Tatsu


Crouching
Lp) +7
- At max range nothing reaches
Mp) +15
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) +24
- Sweep?
Lk) +7
- Cr.Mp/Mk x hado
Mk) +14
-Sweep
Hk) +22
- Solar Plexus but can drop at max range

Sweep will beat any cancel into Bullhead or Bull Horn

Bull Charge (F.Hp) +16
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
Bull Slider (DF.Hp) +21
- Solar Plexus
Bull Drop (F.Hk) +16
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu

VReversal) +15
- St.hk, St. Lk x SHoryu
-- Will still be invincible if you try st.Mp immediately
Bull Head) min +21
- Solar Plexus all of them
Bull Horn) min +26
- Solar Plexus all of them
-- Parry this will cause Birdie to hop over you so position yourself accordingly
--- B.Hk is a far easier punish. just hold towards whatever direction Birdie starts in.

Hanging Chain) Depends entirely on your positioning

Cammy
Standing
Lp) +2
Nothing
Mp) +6
- Jodan Sanrengeki
-- if you are just inside of the max range you can go for a Cr.Hp
Hp) +16
-St.Hk, St.Lk x M.Tatsu/H.Shoryu

Lk) +3
- St. lp confirm into tatsu
-- Because of its range just go with a Cr.Mp or Mk to catch a button
Mk) +10
- Given the huge range on it Sweep is the most reliable answer. At a absolute max range sweep can fail
Hk) +15
- Given the huge range on it go for a tatsu or shoryu of choice if there far out.

Crouching
Lp) +3
- St. Lp x Shoryu. Can be out of range
Mp) +7
Cr. Mp X H.Hado will hit at max range
-- any buffer can beat sweep. Just block in that case.
Hp) + 17
- Solar Plexus combo
Lk) +5
- St.Mp x H.Shoryu. Will work at max range
Mk) +10
- Sweep because of huge range
-- any buffer can beat sweep. Just block in that case.
Hk) +18
- Solar Plexus combo

Knee Bullet) +13
- St.Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu
Lift Upper + 12
- St.Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu

Vskill) +12 but you may as well crush counter it
Vreversal) +20
- Solar Plexus Combo

Spiral Arrow) Can vary but on last active frame you should still be+ 19
- Solar Plexus combo
-- H and Ex version are 2 hits and must be accounted for. you can just press it immediate after so there should be no issue with timing.
Cannon Spike) + Alot because its a dp
- Just go for a Crush Counter. There is nothing meaningful gained from parrying it.

More than likely you will only parry these two if they are buffered from something, for ex. St. Hp or Cr.Mk. In these situations you can parry the initial St. Hp or Cr.Mk and just hold down back.

If you do attempt to parry a buffer. Given parry active frames you should be able to use the same timing to cover all version of arrow and spike. Be sure to delay yourself slightly between the normal and Arrow/Spike.

You can poke them with a St.lp but they'll just flip out.

Cannon Strike) St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Razor Edge Slicer) Pointless because you can AntiAir it
Cannon Strike Followup) Pointless because you can AntiAir it

Vtrigger
Spiral Arrow) can vary. At the least you are +18
- Solar Plexus combo. Cammy will still side switch so keep that in mind
--5 hits to parry
Cannon Spike) + alot because dp
- CC. St.Hk combo
-- only need to parry 1 hit and she stops

Like the regular version if she buffers spiral arrow from a normal you can just hold down back and be fine.
This does not work against her cannon spike because of there reduced startup. However, if she is to far out, she will whiff entirely or hit on a later frame and you can block.

Cannon Strike) Can vary but should generally leave you atleast + 10
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
- She will side switch. must delay yourself slightly or Cr.hp comes out on the wrong side.

Chun Li
Standing
Lp) +4
-St. Lk x tatsu
Mp) +6
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Hp) +14
- Jodan Sanrengeki
- Because she extends herself forward this will work at a distance.

Lk)+4
-St.Lk x Tatsu
Mk)+12
-St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
Hk)+13
- Nothing at max range

Crouching
Lp)+2
-nothing
Mp) +17
- Solar Plexus
Hp) +10
- B.Hk , St.Lk x Shroyu/tatsu should work at any range

Lk)+4
- St.LK
Mk)+11
- Sweep
-- possible to H.shoryu at distance but can fail at max range
Hk)+21
- Solar Plexus x Shoryu at distance

If Chun Li cancels into a special, St.Mp will counter hit all special moves she tries, except for the following;
- Light Hyakuretsukyaku
- Ex Hyakuretsukyaku
- Light Spinning Bird
These moves have to be parried immediately

Tsuitotsuken (B or F+Mp) +8
- St/Cr. Mp x Tatsu
Hakkei (B+Hp) +12
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Senenshu (DF+Mk)+12
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Tenkukyaku (B+Hk)+12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu
Yokusenkyaku (F+Hk)+12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu
Kakurakukyaku (DF+HK) +7
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Vreversal) + 20
- Solar Plexus

Hyakuretsukyaku (L/M/H) +16 Ex +15
- St. Hk, St.lk x Shoryu
-- 4, 5, and 6 hits to parry respectively
--- Ex is 10 hits. 6 initial, 4 followup
Air Hyakuretsukyaku)
- B.Hk, St.lk x shoryu
Spinning Bird) +20
- Solar Plexus

Vtrigger

Few of her normals have different active and recovery frames. This does not effect parry advantage but I may have missed something.

Dhalsim
For any stretched limb you can always shoryu from a distance. Only exception is St.Hk.

Standing
Lp) +5
- St.Lk x Tatsu
Mp) +13
- Shoryu
Hp) +21
- Shoryu

Lk) +4
- St.Lk x Tatsu
Mk +11
- Shoryu
Hk +18
- Nothing

Crouching
Lp) +4
- St.Lk
Mp) +17
- Solar Plexus
Hp) +10
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Lk) +14
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Mk) + 17
- Solar Plexus
Hk) +29
- Solar Plexus

Drill Kick) Can vary from what height he hits you from.
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x shoryu

Yoga Anvil) +24
- Solar Plexus

Yoga Upper) +14
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Divine Kick) +12
-St.Hk, St.Lk x tatsu/Shoryu

Thrust Kick) +12
- St/Cr.Mp x Hado

VReversal) +19
- Solar Plexus

Yoga Gale (On Ground) +31
- Solar Plexus

Yoga Gale (In Air) - will vary
- Shoryuken should be the most reliable
-- Any Normal will have to be timed due to him landing on the ground. B.Hk was the easiest in testing

Vtrigger) +21
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Mp x tatsu
If you are parrying a normal canceled into Vtrigger you can time a 2nd parry to get a full punish. The 2nd Parry does have to be timed because of the vtriggers long startup. Just delay yourself slightly.

Ed
Standing
Lp +4
- St.Lk x l.tatsu
Mp +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu
-- St.Mp will push Ed to far for Cr.Hp to connect
Hp +18
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Mp x Tatsu
-- Will be to far to get Cr.Hp after Solar Plexus
Lk +5
- St.mp x tatsu
Mk +12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
Hk +20
- Solar Plexus

Crouching
Lp +4
- St/cr.lk
Mp +9
- St/Cr.Mp x Hado
Hp + 21
- Solar Plexus, Jodan Sanrengeki for damage
-- St.Mp/ Jodan Sanrengeki to beat cancels
Lk + 4
- St/Cr.lk
Mk +14
- St.Hp or St.Mp
-- Hp hit at max range and will Crush Psycho up, trade with Spark and lose to Rising
--- Mp wont reach at max range, but should beat any cancel
Hk + 23
- Solar Plexus

Standing Mp should beat any cancel they do, short of Ex Psycho Upper. Unfortunately, you can't Crush Counter any of them except for Psycho Upper with St.Hp. So you will either have to parry again or just go Mp.

VSkill) atleast +17
- Solar Plexus
-- Be aware of 2 hits
VSkill Hold
- Not worth it. Can easily be jumped or Tatsu'd

Psycho Knuckle) Min + 23
- For any punish you must hold towards the direction Ed starts from to allows time for the side switch.
- Solar Plexus gives the most damage. B.Hp will be the easier punish
Psycho Spark +18
- St.Hk, ST.lk x tatsu/shoryu
-- Will Crush Counter if they followup with Psycho Shot.
Psycho Upper +32
-Solar Plexus
Psycho Flicker +18
- Solar Plexus
Psycho Rising) Way to much
- Neutral Jump for punish of choice. St.Mp, Cr.Hp will work.

F.A.N.G
Standing
Lp +3
- St.Lp or L.Shoryu. Nothing reaches at max range
Mp +11
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Hp +16
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu
Lk +4
- St.Lk but at max range it will whiff
Mk +10
- Sweep or St.Hk
Hk +12
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu/Tatsu

Crouching
Lp +5
- st.mp
Mp +12
- Sweep
Hp +17
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Lk +4
-st.lk
Mk +10
-H.Shoryu at max range
Hk +25
- Solar Plexus
-
Senpukuga (PPP+K) +10
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Sotoja (B,F, P) More than + 22 up close. Spaced out you'l still be +17 except on EX.
- H.Shoyru should be guaranteed


Guile
Standing
Lp) +4
- L/M. Shoryu
Mp) +10
- St. Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu
-- Will Probably parry this off a block st. mp. which pushes you to far for a St.Mp, Cr.Hp.
Hp) + +15
- St. Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu
-- St. Mp will push them to far for a Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Lk) +6
- St. Lk x L/M. Tatsu
-- St/Cr. Mp will not reach at a distance
Mk) +12
- St. Hk, St. Lk x L/M. Tatsu
Hk) +15
- St. Hk, St. Lk x L/M. Tatsu

Crouching
Lp) +4
- St.lk x H.Shoryu
Mp) +9
- M.Shoryu
- Will hit clean even if they buffer boom.
Hp) +15
-B.Hk, St. Lk x L/M.Tatsu

Lk) +5
- St.Mp x H.Shoryu
Mk) +11
- H.Shoryu. Will reach even at max distance
Hk) + 17
- Solar Plexus Combo
-- Two hit to parry or can block after 1.

Guile High Kick (DF.Hk) + 21
- Solar Plexus, either Cr.Hp x Shoryu or Cr.Mp x Tatsu depend on range
Knee Bazooka (B or F Lk) + 15
- St. Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
Rolling Sobat (B or F Mk) +13
- M. Tatsu
-- This will cover both B or F variations
Spinning Back Knuckle (F.Hp) +13
- St. Hk, St. Lk x L/M. Tatsu
-- Because he is moving forward this should always hit, even at a distance.
Reverse Spin Kick (F.Hk) +15
-St. Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
-- Generally used as throw bait meaning they will be close enough for this to always hit.
Burn Straight (B.Hp) +17
- Solar Plexus combo
Full Bullet Magnum (F.Mp) +15
- St. Hk, St.lk, x shoryu

Drake Fang (Cr. Mk > F.Mp) + 19
- Solar plexus combo
Only relevent target combo when it comes to parries. You can parry the Overhead F.Mp after a blocked Cr.Mk.

Vskill + 10
- B.Hk, into whatever
-- I have no idea why this would come up
VReversal +19
-Solar plexus combo

Sonic Boom
Sonic Cross
Sonic Break
See General Information

Vtrigger
Same as Sonic Boom/Cross/Break
Honestly, this is just asking for trouble given how much guile can control the screen.

Somersault Kick + Alot because Flash Kick

Ibuki
Standing
Lp) +4
- St.lk x H.Shoryu
Mp) +7
- Jodan Sanrengeki
-- Use Cr.Hp if just inside of max range
Hp) +15
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu

Lk) +6
-Cr.Mp x H.Tatsu
-- L/M Tatsu will come up short and whiff at distance
Mk) +10
- St. Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
Hk) +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
-- Both of you are using forward moving normals so this should never miss.

Crouching
Lp) +5
- St. Lk x Shoryu or just L/M. Shoryu. Both can whiff at farther ranges
-- St.Mp actually doesn't work here. I can only assume its hitting on a later active frame but I don't know why.
Mp) +9
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) +14
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Lk) +4
- St.Lk x H.Shoryu
Mk) +13
- Cr. Mp x Hado at max range
Hk) +20
- Solar Plexus Combo

Kobekudaki (F+Mk) +12
- St. Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
Bonshogeri (F+Hk) This seems to vary quite abit
- B.Hk, St,Lk x Tatsu should always work
Sazan (DF+Mk) This also varys because of its active frame
- B.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu will work
Agemen (B+Mp) +6
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu

Shinten 1) +12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
Shinten 2) +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
-- you can hold downback after the first two and block
--- Parry messes with the timing of TC so the third hit may not come out unless your opp is aware of it.
Shakunage (Cr.Mp > F+Hk) +20
- Solar Plexus combo
-- The F+Hk will not Crush if you miss time your parry
Sasanaki (St.Mp > F+Mk) +9
- B.Hk, St. Lk x Tatsu

Originally was not gonna cover the target combos because you opp has to much control of the situation if you attempt a parry. But, they are pretty relevent for her so I may as well write these down.

Vskill) +19
- Solar Plexus Combo
Vskill Full Charge) +19
- Solar Plexus Combo

To cover the different timing, press parry while you would be in block stun of her normal Vskill. This will catch Full Charge VSkill and with normal Vskill being -5 on block you should beat it either way.

VReversal) +16 at most?
- St.Mp, Cr. Mp will always work

Kazekiri) + A whole lot
- Anything for Big damage
Raida) +26 Ex. +24
- Solar Plexus Combo

Kunai) Pointless
They're already incredibly fast to react to. But besides a unnecessary attempt at closing the distance, you will never get a punish afterwards, no matter the distance. On Ex. you could get a Hp.Shoryu if you're right in there face, but thats it.
Airborne Kunai) Pointless
You may as well just do a Shoryuken. Its just that simple.
Kunai Ikkinage) Pointless
Airborne Kunai Ikkinage) Pointless
Not much of a need to repeat myself. Interestingly, for the Light version you will only ever have to parry 1 or 2 hits depending on the distance because it just continues travelling.

Karin
Standing
Lp) +3
-L.Shoryu
Mp)+9
St. Mp x Tatsu or Jodan Nirengeki for damage or stun respectively
Hp)+17
-St.mp, Cr.Hp should work at most ranges
Lk)+5
- St.Lk x Tatsu
Mk)+12
- St.Lk x Tatsu Or H.Shoryu due to range
Hk)+19
-St.Hk, St.Lk x tatsu at max range

Crouching
Lp)+4
-St.Lk x H.Shoryu
Mp)+8
-H.Shoryuken
Hp)+20
- Solar Plexus Combo

Lk)+4
- at a far range, nothing without meter
Mk)+9
-B.Hk
-- Although it will not hit at farther distances, it will beat most cancel special from Karin, except for Mujinkyaku and Ex.Ressenha.
Hk)+18
-Solar Plexus, Shoryu due to range

Tsumujigari (F.Mk)+18

VSkill+16
VSkill Hold+17
- Solar Plexus Combo
Vreversal +20
-Solar Plexus

To cover the different timing, press parry while you would be in block stun of her normal Vskill. This will catch Full Charge VSkill and with normal Vskill being -5 on block you should beat it either way.

Tenko +18
- Solar Plexus
Ex. Tenko +16
- St.Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
Orochi
-Solar Plexus Combo
Mujinkyaku L +17
Mujinkyaku M +19
Mujinkyaku H +28
-B.Hk for all 3
-- You can parry the 1st 2 hits of each version and B.Hk to beat her M/H 3rd hit.
Mujinkyaku EX +14
- St. Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryuken
-- 4 Hits to parry. Cannot Mash, Must do even pace for each hit.
Ressenha
-St.Mp, Cr. Mp x Shoryu
-- 2 Hits. Cannot Mash. If Crouching 1st hit can whiff.
Senha Kusabi +22

Vtrigger
Guren Ken) +17

As long as we can parry the initial Guren Ken all of her followups are irrelevent.

Guren Hosho
Guren Senha
Guren Chochu
Guren Hochu
Guren Resshu
Guren Kusabi
Guren Kyoho

Parry Gurren Ken and immediately pressing St.Hk will beat all of her followups and Crush Counter.

Kyoho (the dash back) will not Crush Counter but will still be in range for St.Hk, St.lk x Tatsu

A few of her followups will leave her airborn after the CC.St.Hk. Choose an appropriate combo.

Ken
Standing
Lp) +1
- Nothing
Mp) +11
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu/shoryu
Hp +16
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu/shoryu
-- St.Mp will push to far, even with a walk forward.

Lk) +5
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mk) +16
- St.Hk, St. LK x
-- it is possible to walk up St.mp, cr.mp. You must be fairly close for this
--- St.Hk will Crush Counter if they try for TC
Hk) + 22
- Solar Plexus

Crouching
Lp) + 5
- Lp/Mp shoryu
Mp) + 9
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) +21
- Solar Plexus
-- despite how his body looks you cannont use St.Hk. I assume he's still considered crouching.

Lk) +5
- Lp/Mp Shoryu
Mk) +16
- Cr. Hp
-- Whiffs at max range. However Kens do not normaly use this at max range unless for CA cancel
--- If canceled into CA the screen freeze gives you an easy parry timing
Hk) + 22
-Solar Plexus

If Ken cancels any of his normals into a special
- All version of Shoryukens must be parried immediately
-- Ex is 7 hits to parry. 3 inital then 4 followup

- Lk/ Mk Tatsumaki should be parried immediately.
-- Tatsumak are 2 hits to parry (Unless spaced out by a cr.mk) Mk has a delayed 3rd hit that is easy to see.
--- Hk tatsu has too big a startup to parry immediately
- Ex. Tatsu is also parried immediately
-- Only 1 hit to parry
--- Do not use St.Hk for your punish.

- All versions of hadouken cannont be parried immediately and must be delayed or blocked.
-- You can also punish with anything 8f or less. St. Mp potential best? because it also beats hk tatsu.

Thunder Kick) +19
- Solar Plexus
Inazuma Kick) +16
- St.Hk
-- spaced to far for st.mp, cr.hp
Chin Buster) +13
- Cr.Hp will cover them continuing the TC
-- Should never have to parry the 2nd hit

Step Kick ) +21
-Solar Plexus

Tatsu) atleast +17
- Solar Plexus
-- The # of hits will vary depending on spacing.
Air Tatsu + 8
Air Ex Tatsu +8
- B.Hk
-- If Ex hits you high, you have to parry 2 hits. If it hits low, just 1.

Vtrigger
Except for 1 additional hit on Shoryu to parry and some moves having faster startup, Nothing here changes

Laura
Standing

Lp) +5
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mp) +10
- St. Hk, St.Lk Shoryu
-- Even up close, A St. mp will push Laura to far for a Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) +15
- St. Mp, Cr.Hp, Shoryu
-- Because she moves forward this should work at most ranges.

Lk) +6
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mk) +12
- St. Hk, St.Lk, Shoryu
-- Because Laura have a tendency to do St.Mk, St.Mk blockstrings, she will keep herself close where you could get a St. Mp, Jodan Sanrengeki for slightly more damage
Hk) +16
- St. Hk, St.Lk, Shoryu will be the go to because of its range.

Crouching
Lp) +4
- M. Shoryuken
Mp) + 11
- Cr.Hp x H.Shoryuken
Hp) +15
- B.Hk, St. Lk x L/M.Tatsu

Lk) +4
- St.Lp, St. Lp x Shoryu
-- Farther out no special can reach unless you want to spend Ex.
Mk) +15
- Sweep is your best bet
-- Still reaches at a max range
--- Will Crush Counter any buffered Special
Hk) +17
-Solar Plexus Combo


Step Elbow (F+Hp) +13
-St. Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
-- Will still work at a distance

Vskill) atleast + 17
- Solar Plexus Combo
VReversal +20
- Solar Plexus Combo

Boltcharge Lp) +14
- St.Mp, Cr. Hp x Shoryu
Boltcharge Mp) +17
-Solar Plexus Combo

Despite having more advantage on Mp. Boltcharge. You will be better off sticking with a St.Mp, Cr.Hp Combo for both because it can be hard to differentiate the two.

Thunder Clap) Pointless
She has two much advantage/ control to even bother.

M.Bison
Standing
Lp) +4
- St.Lk x Shoryuken
Mp)+11
-St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
Hp) +17
- Solar Plexus, Cr.Mp x Tatsu
-- Will not work at max range. It hits on a later frame.

Lk) +6
- Cr.Hp x Shoryuken
Mk)+10
- Jodan Nirengeki at max range

Hk)+10
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
-- St.Mp pushes to far for Cr.hp

Crouching
Lp )+3 but actually +2?

Despite the formula giving us +3, St.Lp or L.Shoryu will not hit. I have no idea why.

Mp)+9
- H.Shoryuken to beat all cancels

Hp) +22
- Solar Plexus

Lk) +3
- L.Shoryu
-- Will whiff at max range
Mk) +9
- H.Shoryuken to beat all cancels
Hk) Better off blocking

Psycho Axe)+17
- Solar Plexus Combo

Vreversal) +16
- St.Hk, St,Lk x Shoryuken

Psycho Blast) Will vary. Minum +18
- Solar Plexus Combo
Double Knee Press) +16/+17/+18
Ex)
- B.Hk, St.Lk, Shoryuken
-- St.Hk will whiff. Although it is possible for it to hit. Something about Bisons animation I assume
--- 2 Hits to parry

Head Press) Irrelevent
- Immediate neutral jump Mp x Tatsu
Ex Head Press)
- Same thing. Only 1 hit of J.Mp will hit
Devil Reverse) +6
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Ex) +2
- St.Mp or Grab
-- To guarantee this. Once Bison Ex jumps, try to dash under him. If he flips, get ready to parry. If he doesn't, he should be unsafe so followup up on it.
Psycho Inferno) Don't Bother

This is a projectile. Bison will not be affected by the parry freeze and recover before you do.

Vtrigger

2 things change for parry here.

1. Head stomp is far more punishable. More than +22 it seems as he just stands there, menacingly. so go ahead and Solar Plexus him.
2. Devil Reverse sideswitching. This actually makes it easier to parry compared to the regular one. The only worry would be Ex 2 hits, but theres a sound que to warn you of of it. Advantage and punishes are the same as regular version.

Nash
Standing
Lp +2
Mp +8
- Cr.Hp
Hp +19
- Solar Plexus and either Jodan Sanrengeki for damage, or Mp x Tatsu for knockdown and corner carry.
-- Cr.Hp will whiff after the Solar Plexus
Lk +4
- St.Lk x Tatsu
Mk +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
Hk +14
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/ Tatsu

Crouching
Lp +3
- L.Shoryu
Mp +10
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu/Tatsu
Hp +13
- H.Shoryu at a distance
Lk+3
- L.Shoryu
Mk+11
- Sweep
Hk+20
- Solar Plexus

Knee Bazooka +18 upclose. +11 spaced out
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu

Jumping Sobat + 14
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu

Chopping Assault +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu

Step Kick +13
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu

Spinning Back Knuckle +27
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu/Tatsu

Side Knee Attack +12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu

Sonic Scythe Min +19
- Solar Plexus
-- Ex can be parried once and interrupted with Solar Plexus

Moonsault Slash L/Ex +7. M/H +8
- St.Mp, Cr.Hpx Shoryu if upclose

Tragedy Assault Min +19.
- St.Hp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
-- Can get a Jumping Hk on Ex but you cannot do St.Mp, Cr.Hp to continue the combo.

Necalli
Standing
Lp) + 5
-Jodan Sanrengeki
Mp) +11
St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu
Hp)+ 17
- Jodan Nirengeki
- will beat out any buffer and get you a Crush Counter. What you lose in damage you gain in 400 Vgauge(little over half a bar)

Lk)+6
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mk) +10
- Cr. Hp x Shoryu
-- St. Hk will whiff and B.Hk will only hit up close
Hk)+19
-Solar Plexus Combo

Crouching
Lp)+4
- M.Shoryuken
-- Can whiff at max range
Mp) +9
- St.Hp
- Will Crush Counter any buffer
Hp) +17
- St.Hp
- Will Crush Counter any buffer

Lk) +5
- St.Mp x Hado at max range
Mk)+12
- Cr.hp or St. Hp depending if you predict a buffer.
-- Cr.Hp will hit a max range
Hk)+19
- Solar Plexus

You can Respond to alot of Necalli's common cancelable normals and respond with St.Hp. Although you lose out in damage if they do nothing, you can gain alot of Vgauge very quickly.

Opening Dagger (DF.Hp) +21
- Solar Plexus
Opening Dagger Charged) +14
St.Hk, St.lk x Shoryu

Road of the Sun (UF > D.HK)
- B.Hk

Vskill) its a fireball, so irrelevent
- B.Hk, St. Lk x tatsu
-- Can simply grab for spacing
--- only relevent if right next to him
Vreversal
- Solar Plexus Combo

The Discs Guidance)
- Solar Plexus Combo
-- Ex is 3 hits. Must Delay each parry.
--- you can block at any point in parrying Ex and be fine.
Raging Light) + Alot
- Crush Counter
-- Presumably you will only parry the H or Ex. Version. Despite having multiple hits the most you will have to parry is 2 and 1 hits, respectively, because of how he travels.
---Just Input 2 parry to cover H and you will recover in time to Crush Counter Ex.
Valiant Rebellion) Varies alot between the different version
-St. Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu will always hit
-- There startup times are different enough from eachother that it is very difficult to time a parry to them.
--- Ex. is 2 hits. Must delay quite abit for the 2nd hit.

Vtrigger
Does not change anything that would affect your parry punishes. The only thing to watch out for is increased hits to moves
-Disc Guidance is 2 hits.
--Ex. is 4. Must delay yourself between the 1st and 2nd hit. As well as the 2nd and 3rd.

R.Mika
Standing
Lp) +3
- Lp Shoryu will work at max range
Mp)+7
-Cr.Hp x shoryu
Hp)+ 17
- Solar Plexus

Lk)+5
- Jodan Sanrengeki
-- This will also beat TC
Mk)+ 14
-St.Hk, St.Lk x
Hk and Hold Hk)+16
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu/Tatsu
-- Must delay the st.Mp or else it will push Mika to far for Cr.Hp to reach

Crouching
Lp)+2
- nothing
Mp)+14
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp) + 17 right next to you but normaly less with how its spaced out
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu/Tatsu

Lk)+4
- St Lk
- - the only combo you can get from a distance is with ex
Mk+12
- Sweep
- - St.Mp or Cr.Mp will hit from a distance but must use ex to combo
Hk varies
-Cr.Hp x Shoryu should work at max distance

DiveBomb) Pointless
- This is normally used to bait out anti air so the usual spacing should make parrying irrelevent

Lady Mika) +9
-St.Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Passion Press)+16
-StHk, St.Lk x Shoryu/tatsu

Vreversal) +20
- Solar Plexus

Shooting Peach) Will Vary min +18
-Solar Plexus

Rashid
Standing
Lp)+3
-L. Shoryuken
Mp)+10
-St. Hk, St, Lk x Shoryu
HP)+15
- at max distance Sweep is you best bet. Will still lose to cancel spinning mixer/eagle spike
-- If you are closer, H.Shoryuken


Lk)+6
-Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Mk)+12
- St.Hk, St,Lk x Shoryu
Hk)+18
-Solar Plexus combo

Crouching
Lp)+2
- Nothing
Mp) +12
-Cr.Hp x Shoryu
HP) Do not parry
This button does too much to consider. If up close, you have to parry 2 hits and with the 1st being cancelable Rashid is gonna bait you without even trying.
At a distance you don't have to worry about this. But, your best punish now is a sweep and you now risk getting Crush Countered.

Lk)+4
- Nothing at max distance without meter
Mk)+11
- at max distance Sweep is you best bet. Will still lose to cancel spinning mixer/eagle spike
-- If you are closer, H.Shoryuken
Hk)+21
- Solar Plexus

Flap Spin (F.MP)+11
-St.Mp, Cr. Hp should always hit
-- Can stop parrying after 1
Beak Assault (F.HP)+13
-St.Hk, St,lk x shoryu

Vskill (Nail Assault)+19
- Solar Plexus Combo

Airborne Eagle Spike+ Alot
-Solar Plexus combo
-- You have so much freedom after a parry you dash underneath Rashid and still get a Solar Plexus

Eagle Spike) Will vary. Min +17
- Solar Plexus combo

Vtrigger
This is the only time you should ever attempt to parry Spinning Mixer because there wind version have a static number of hits.
Theres still to many variables to really not make this worth it. Your Spacing to the tornado, your spacing to rashid to determine how many hits to parry. The input and run vers. of Spinning mixer have different total number of hits.

One thing to keep in mind is that you can stop parrying and at any time block.

Spinning Mixer Wind
- 11 hits total
Spinning Mixer Run Wind
- 10 hits total
Punish with anything thats not solar plexus and will keep you away from the tornado.

Urien
Standing Urien
Lp) +5
- H.Shoryuken
-- This will win if they go for the Lp>Mp TC
Mp)+9
- Sweep due to long range
Hp)+15
-St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu because this thing has tons of range
Hp Hold)+12
-St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu
-- St.Hk will Crush Counter a cancel

Lk)+4
- St.Lk x Tatsu
Mk)+14
- Tatsu will work from max distance
Hk) less than +16
Hk Hold) Less than +16
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu for both

Crouching
Lp)+5
- St.Mp x Hado due to range
Mp)+11
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
Hp)+19
- St. Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu
-- Will beat out a buffered fireball
--- If your opp tries to cancel into CA. St.Mp will not come out due to screen freeze and you can just parry it out.

Lk)+3
- Likely nothing because of range
Mk)+ 13
- Sweep Due to range
Hk) +23
- Solar plexus, H.Shoryuif at max range

Quarrel Punch (F+Mp) + 12
- St. Hk, St. Lk, Tatsu
-- St.Hk will Crush Counter a following F+Hp
Terrible Smash (F+Hp) + 16
St.Hk, St, lp x Shoryu
-- St.Mp, Cr.Hp will fail even standing right next to him
Quarrel Kick (DF+Hk) + 16
- St.Hk, St, lp x Shoryu
-- Solar Plexus will not work farther out

Break Rush (F+Mp > F+Hp) +16
- St.Hk, St, lp x Shoryu
-- You can block the first hit and parry the second
--- St. Mp will push them to far for Cr.Hp to hit.

Vreversal +20
- Solar Plexus Combo

Chariot Tackle) can vary but more than +20
- Solar Plexus Combo
-- Ex is 2 hits. Must delay 2nd parry
---you can throw St.Mp, Cr.Hp imbetween the 1st and 2nd hit.
Violence Knee Drop ) Will Vary
- St. Mp, Cr.Hp x Shoryu should work no matter how low Knee Drop hits you.
--There is a range where you could parry and St.Mp, Cr.Hp will whiff. But this is a range that Knee Drop would not hit you in the first place.
Dangerous Headbut) Will vary. Around +14 generally.
- St.Hk. St. lk x Shoryu
-- you can do St. Mp, Cr.Hp but must delay yourself or will flip out of air.
Ex Headbut+ Alot, its a reversal
- St. Hk Crush Counter Combo
-- 2 hits to Parry. Can be pressed immediately after

Metallic Sphere
See General Information
- Charged Vers. is 2 hits to parry.
-- Regular Ex. is 2 hits. Charged Ex. 3 hits to parry.

Vega
Standing
Lp) +2
- Nothing
Mp) +12
- St. Hk, St.Lk
Hp) +17
- Solar Plexus
Claw Lp) +5
- Nothing at a distance, jodan sanrengeki otherwise
Claw Mp) +10
- Sweep at a distance
Claw Hp) + 17
- Solar Plexus

Lk) +5
- Jodan Sanrengeki
Mk)+9
- Sweep at a distance
Hk)+13
- St.Hk, St. Lk x Shoryu/Tatsu depending on range

Crouching
Lp)+3
-St.lp if close range only
Mp) +11
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp Close range. H.Shoryuken at distance
Hp)+13
- Cr.Hp x Shoryuken at all ranges
-- can get St.Mp, Cr.Mp at close range

Claw Lp)+3
- St.Lp x Shoryu
-- Will whiff at a distance
Claw Mp) +11
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu close range. Sweep at max range
Claw Hp)+15
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp Close range. H. Shoryuken at distance.

Lk)+5
- St.mp x shoryuken
Mk)+12
- B.Hk at Close range. H.Shoryu at a distance
Hk) Varies
- St.Mp, Cr.Hp should work at max range

Mercury Shard (f+Mk) +12
-St.Hk, St.Lk x shoryu/tatsu
Buster Claw (F+Hp) +20
-Cr.Hp x Shoryu
-- Solar Plexus can work but Vega will move back as it connects, sometimes making him fall out of it.

VSkill) +27
- Dash, St.mp, Cr. mp
-- Should work slightly shorter than max range

Crimson Terror) min +11/+13/+15
- St.Hk
Ex) +9
-St.Hk

The gaps between hits are large enough to stop and punish at anytime. However, He will air reset, pick an appropriate combo.

Aurora Spin) +20/18
- Solar Plexus should work at all ranges
Ex) +18
- St.Hk
-- You can parry the first hit and interrupt the 2nd with St.Hk

Vtrigger
- St. Mp, Cr. Hp. x Shoryu
-- Only punishable in the corner. Vega travels to far for anything midscreen
--- Must delay your st.mp or you will Air reset him.

Vtrigger (In Air)
- Cr.Hp x Shoryu
-- St. Mp will push to far to get cr.hp afterwards

3 hits to parry. first 2 hits are immediate, 3rd hit is delayed.

Zangief
Standing
Lp) +3 given what frame it hits you
- Lp Shoryuken
Mp) +8
- Jodan niren/Sanrengeki
Hp and Hold Hp) +21
- Solar Plexus

Lk)+8
- Jodan Nirengeki
Mk)+14
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Tatsu/shoryu
Hk) +20
- Solar Plexus

Crouching
Lp) +3
- Nothing at a further distance. Stick to St.mp to catch buttons
Mp)+9
- Cr. Hp x SHoryu
-- H.Shoryu if at max range
Hp) +20
- Solar Plexus

Lk)+4
- St. Lk x shoryu
Mk)+12
- H. Shoryuken
Hk)+23
- Solar Plexus
Knee Hammer (F+Mk) Pointless?
- Given the range this is used at it shouldnt comeup.
Headbutt (F+Hp) +12
- St.Hk, St.Lk x Shoryu

Flying Body Press +1?
- St. Lp confirm

Vtrigger

No reason to parry this. Zangief has to much control over the situation to attempt.

If you parry a normal canceled into Vtrigger, you can punish him with St.Hk for a Crush Counter


Of course, I'm just an average player so if there are any mistakes, something I missed or just something you'd like me to add, let me know and I'll put it in.
Post edited by ManofSteelII on

Comments

  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,575
    Awesome list. Balrog and Cammy are two of the worst when it comes to rush-down and that's when parry is the most tempting.

    On cross-ups parry is indeed fantastic when the other player feels like they've "opened the jar" and want to press their advantage.
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Glad you found it useful.

    Added Guile and Ibuki. As well as a section on parrying fireballs under General Information.

    Will try to clean up the whole thing at some point.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Added Advantage and Punishes for All? Higher tier characters
  • NG1313NG1313 Joined: Posts: 1,575
    There are minimal exceptions to Ryu being +3 instead of only +2 after parry, and that's really unfortunate that we can't always rely on a lp.shoryu afterwards.

    Hate these little exceptions to the rule all over the place..
    "Forbidden"? Not today! Shoryuken!!!
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 405
    Indeed, I'd be fine with parry if the reward was massive, but usually it isn't much better risk/reward in terms of commitment, especially when you look at the frame data for most moves. It's good for punishing people who use really slow blatant moves, but there aren't enough to make it worth it.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Added M.Bison to the list
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Indeed, I'd be fine with parry if the reward was massive, but usually it isn't much better risk/reward in terms of commitment, especially when you look at the frame data for most moves. It's good for punishing people who use really slow blatant moves, but there aren't enough to make it worth it.

    I think the damage is fine, really. The commitment is the same as a shoryuken, which is 120 damage. On average, I think you get 200, meterless, for parry.

    Getting crush countered doesn't come up often, unless you're doing it outside of the blockstring. Which isn't the best idea.

    The fact you get countered at all sucks but I understand why its there. If Shoryu has to have it then parry does too or there would be no reason not to parry blockstrings.
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 405
    Added M.Bison to the list
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Indeed, I'd be fine with parry if the reward was massive, but usually it isn't much better risk/reward in terms of commitment, especially when you look at the frame data for most moves. It's good for punishing people who use really slow blatant moves, but there aren't enough to make it worth it.

    I think the damage is fine, really. The commitment is the same as a shoryuken, which is 120 damage. On average, I think you get 200, meterless, for parry.

    Getting crush countered doesn't come up often, unless you're doing it outside of the blockstring. Which isn't the best idea.

    The fact you get countered at all sucks but I understand why its there. If Shoryu has to have it then parry does too or there would be no reason not to parry blockstrings.

    It's not the CC part if you get hit that bothers me, it's more how much time you give up. Since the recovery is so long on it (rightly so), you're opponent gets a lot of "free time." It would be interesting so see that if you combine the input time and startup for a DP, would it be the same upfront time as a parry?
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    edited June 21
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Added M.Bison to the list
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Indeed, I'd be fine with parry if the reward was massive, but usually it isn't much better risk/reward in terms of commitment, especially when you look at the frame data for most moves. It's good for punishing people who use really slow blatant moves, but there aren't enough to make it worth it.

    I think the damage is fine, really. The commitment is the same as a shoryuken, which is 120 damage. On average, I think you get 200, meterless, for parry.

    Getting crush countered doesn't come up often, unless you're doing it outside of the blockstring. Which isn't the best idea.

    The fact you get countered at all sucks but I understand why its there. If Shoryu has to have it then parry does too or there would be no reason not to parry blockstrings.

    It's not the CC part if you get hit that bothers me, it's more how much time you give up. Since the recovery is so long on it (rightly so), you're opponent gets a lot of "free time." It would be interesting so see that if you combine the input time and startup for a DP, would it be the same upfront time as a parry?

    Do you mean how long it takes to input a DP vs a Parry? I mean yeah the Parry wins, it's two buttons.

    Parry though recovers slower than an LP DP (if a little less obvious in its animation) and it obviously doesn't beat throws so it's still a half option. LP DP can beat both button or throw, might even trade since it's not in the button priority because it's a special, it also has a ton more active frames. A three frame jab beats both button or throw and links into Target or V-trigger cancels. A Parry only ever beats a strike, which gives it less total coverage, especially in a game where shimmy or grab is two thirds of SF5s offence.

    I think there is room for parry to be expanded on (slightly) with things like akward cross ups or V-reversal baits, but for me it remains a telegraphed character specific tool.

    The problem also with a lot of fireball characters is that they have a way of using the fireball to set up multiple hits from the initial fireball especially things like Fangs Fireballs or Kolins, even Guile is far too risky to parry.

    Personally if they add another V-skill in the super edition, I could see Parry sitting where Fei Longs Ultra 2 sat in SF4, more of a match up specific tool.

    For me a buff could have been something like if you Parry a fireball , the meter build is the same, but if you Parry a strike and successfully finish the hit, it should do double or triple meter. Considering the risk involved and the amount of times you are likely to use it in a round ( once?) I don't think that's a crazy buff, considering Ryus V-trigger is ass tier.

    Ryus Parry really doesn't integrate well with his lack lustre V-trigger.

    As a final note, if the game was less laggy, I think it would be a different story.
  • Captain RyuCaptain Ryu Scoot Magee Joined: Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 21
    As a final note, if the game was less laggy, I think it would be a different story.

    The parry start up combined with the native lag of the game is pretty fucked up lol. It's like a total of 10 frames.
    CFN ScootMagee
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    if it were less laggy it'd still be dumb.

    blocking is a response to an action. there has to be something to block or in 5 at least the threat of something to block (proximity blocking).
    parrying is also a response.

    but for whatever reason ryu can 'parry' nothing. because of that it'll never work right.
    Play more.
  • JustinAkatsukiJustinAkatsuki Joined: Posts: 214
    They really should just reduce the parry frames when he parries an attack. If you parried chun's cr mk and she buffered it into ex legs if you only focused solely on parrying cr mk you'll get tagged by her ex legs. Even if you only parried cr mk and opted to just block well you can't block in time due to the recovery on parry it's just dumb. Because of how parry is in this game combined with Input lag it's nearly impossible to have a parry playstyle with Ryu
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    It's good for blowing up repeated patterns like the typical Cammy block string of cr.mp x 2 cr.mk etc. Thing is you sort of need that information more over a longer set as in tournament play it would be quite risky to parry based on character prediction rather than player pattern.

    I was playing a Cammy player the other night and started to implement this and it did work quite effectively, thing is I'd already gathered the information from the previous 4-5 games.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    edited June 29
    Added Ken, Vega, R.Mika, and Zangief to the list.

    I agree with @Highlandfireball that you need information over a long period of time to make full use of parry. Considering a 2/3 set, I wonder if thats enough time to condition a player into a predictable approach. I guess its just a matter of how much you can learn from your opp. Online is not great for testing/ learning something like that.

    I've been considering parry something closer to a command grab recently. Something you throw out early on to catch them unawares and force them to think about it. I guess parry a jump in, maybe a fireball, would be safest. Or hold it until the very end after its completely left their mind.

    Also training yourself to react to overheads with parry is surprisingly hard. Totally worth it, but heck if I could do it reliably.

    Post edited by ManofSteelII on
  • HarleyBenistaHarleyBenista Joined: Posts: 31
    Some pretty intense moves!
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    yeh.
    i think it's best seen in the same light as wakeup shoryu or something.
    do it early. if it works sweet. if it doesn't, oh well.

    either way they have to consider you might do that again in the future.
    Play more.
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 405
    Would be interesting to see if a shift to 3/5 would make Ryu better in tourney play. I doubt it, but any little bit helps.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    BeastEG wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see if a shift to 3/5 would make Ryu better in tourney play. I doubt it, but any little bit helps.

    Not sure , for me I think a defensive character is better off with the smaller match up. The way I see it the more matches the more the risk/gamble character can take bigger gambles.

    But then F Champ seemed to be of the opinion it would be better. I would have thought a character like Sim would be better off with less matches. It's an interesting question.
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,829
    edited June 30
    I doubt 3/5 does anything for Ryu. Yesterday I was watching a video from Daigo's youtube channel, it was about Itabashi vs some Rashid player named Moke. At one point during the match Jiyuna translates Daigo talking about Ryu. He says that he gave Ryu a shot but it's not going to work because he feels Ryu has the worse neutral in the game. Ryu is already arguably the worse character at pressuring his opponent which SFV has become so known for. He only gets good oki off his regular tatsu's which don't hit low. Everything else from his other specials, his throws, or V reversal resets the situation or leaves your opponent out of a throw mix up. So without a reliable way to continue the pressure game you have to keep out playing your opponents in neutral with stubby normals and a fireball in which so many characters have multiple ways around it.

    Sorry for the rant, now about his parry. I use it sparingly, mainly against moves with huge start up like Cammy V skill or Nash's Moonsault or against cross ups because I'm no good at doing auto correct DP's. Even then it's just to show it. In no way do I try to rely on it. Next time they cross up I'll just block and see what happens. I may go back against if it doesn't seem like they think I'll keep doing it.

    But what bums me out the most about his parry is they don't even let us try it in so many situations. You have characters like Karin or Akuma doing their 2f gap block strings or Ken being guaranteed a meaty with only a 2f or less gap after a forward throw dash up. We already have priority normals to blow up 3f lights. Widen the gap so we can at least risk throwing out a parry lol. Funny thing is that Ryu's parry works wonderfully against Ryu's own block strings.
    Post edited by Rice_Eater on
  • BeastEGBeastEG One day, I'll realize I'm bad at FG's Joined: Posts: 405
    edited June 30
    Probably is going to come down how hard you have to commit to win. A character like Cammy can apply relatively safe pressure for days, so it's not like they have to make hard commits upfront. The only difference becomes how quickly the opponent can adapt and maybe try to equalize against you (since if you're getting out pressured as a Cammy player, you've probably already lost)

    If you need to make hard commits (like lose or win commits) I'd imagine it could make a difference. Sim can be annoying, but eventually Sim has to make hard commits within any match. Having more chances probably will make Sim less volatile since you can afford one or two bad hard commits, have time to adapt, and then hopefully make better "hard commits" as opposed to just a couple of hard commits knocking you out.
    SFV: Ryu
    VF5FS: Sarah Bryant
    GG Xrd: Ky
    Overwatch (damn there is a lot to learn): Pharrah, 76, Tracer / Bastion, Dwarf / Ape, Rein, Orisa, Russia / Lucio, Mercy, Zen, Symm
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Chun Li has been added to the list. Putting little over half the current roster done.
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,829
    edited July 9
    Anybody else try partying Ed's burning knuckle move? I never tested it, just decided to try it against an Ed player who kept using it against me. Funny thing is that you're like +20 or something like that but your going to spend the first 10 frames in the wrong direction since Ed is still transitioning from one side to the other. I kept trying to punish immediately but my st. MP would whiff and when my 2nd button comes out(normally another st. MP or cr. MP) it seems the opportunity to punish is gone by then. I did manage to punish correctly twice by constantly reminding myself to wait instead of pressing buttons immediately.

    His other move, the psycho grab or whatever it's called doesn't seem to something we can parry. Again no testing, I only tried in game. I would parry the initial hit but then it would still grab me and yank me towards Ed. Maybe it can be parry'd by doing multiple parry's. I'll get around to testing it later but I just wanted to mention this and see if anybody else has done any testing or just tried it during real matches.
    Post edited by Rice_Eater on
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    I think you can Parry they chain grab, its two seperate pushes, you can't mash it.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    yeah you gotta wait awhile for ed's psycho knuckle so your not on the wrong side. i think you can still get a Solar Plexus afterwards, don't remember tho.

    How useful is it to parry the Vskill chain? thought you could just tatsu through it.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Added Akuma and Alex to the list
  • SanjoSanjo Joined: Posts: 63
    edited July 11
    yeah you gotta wait awhile for ed's psycho knuckle so your not on the wrong side. i think you can still get a Solar Plexus afterwards, don't remember tho.

    How useful is it to parry the Vskill chain? thought you could just tatsu through it.

    The easiest punish for psycho knuckle is axe kick combo. You just have to hold forward right after the parry and then press HK.
    IMO, you should not parry ed's vskill. Go in training room and practice your reaction to the vskill start-up. I go for jump-in HK, st.HK, st.LK xx tatsu because it works at any range.
    But if you are wondering, yes, you can parry both grounded psycho snatchers.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    Yeah it's one of the few moves you can jump on reaction, which means it's probably not meant for that. I think some of the better eds can incorporate it meatys although I've never met any yet that can do that.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Birdie is done. Don't parry birdie, can't see it ever working out.

    Is there a reliable setup to parry VReversal? I know there was an OS, is that still viable?

    Seeing Tokido at Evo, why aren't Ryu setting up parrying Vreversals.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 9,031
    Birdie is done. Don't parry birdie, can't see it ever working out.

    Is there a reliable setup to parry VReversal? I know there was an OS, is that still viable?

    Seeing Tokido at Evo, why aren't Ryu setting up parrying Vreversals.

    Yeah there's on OS for Parry, you just put it after the first st.mp. There's videos of it.

    Also you can Parry birdies chain if your on point into a tatsu or a dash up, you can also Parry the can. That's about all I'd Parry with Birdie though.
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    Dhalsim and Ed are now up.

    My execution with Dhalsim is terrible so my listed punish for Drill Kick or Yoga Gale might not be optimal or accurate.

    Ed was nothing special. Most interesting thing was parrying tap VSkill. Since he still does the 2nd hit you get a good punish from it. So thinking about it backwards, parrying the tap and jumping/avoiding the hold Vskill could be worth thinking about.

  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 499
    Ryu's parry is the only reason why I even play the game.

    It's the most fun to do.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • ManofSteelIIManofSteelII Joined: Posts: 19
    FANG and Nash are finally up on the list. That finishes off the main roster.

    Really been slacking on this.

    Haven't been playing much because of some constant bad connections recently and needing to finish Yakuza 0 and Kiwami.
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