Project Magenta 2017

armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.comJoined: Posts: 1,818
edited July 17 in Tech Talk
Instead of reviving an old thread, I'm just starting new one, and the Magenta (at least the pre molded gate one) is here....

Some of the comments from Evo:
This joystick is my dream
This is a game changer
I have been telling everyone about this - Mr Wizard, our first install/customer
This is some amazing shit
I went from hitting 1 out of 4 times to hitting that move almost every time

The feedback was extremely positive, with one single detractor, "People want clicks though", to which I said, "We can leave the micros" @Toodles

This was a project we announced 5 years ago and has come to fruition through some blood, sweat and tears.

Magenta is an analog joystick that takes an analog field and maps it to digital outputs. In other words, this takes something like this:
20229357_1572107589516789_5203059030728703684_n.jpg?oh=5a5a2cf4a5570eaba1d69110fbd1ed06&oe=59FB777C

And makes it communicate with your stick like 4 microswitches...

So what does this mean, it means you can change how the stick behaves with different positions and tweak to your play:
1) Each direction can have independent slider control to determine sensitivity
2) You can change the relationship or the cardinals and diagonals
3) you can rotate the map to correct for a slight hook or slice
4) 4 different modes are stored so you can easily switch between games

The plan is to launch this fall, but I wanted to open a thread for discussion and to say I'm really glad to be back on TT more!
Quick FAQ that will be elaborated on:
1) You program by mini usb directly to your computer
2) Security in place to prevent tampering
3) Installed just like an optical, and does require a 5v power source
4) Has been declared tournament legal!!!!

Pictures from Evo:
20108223_1570372666356948_2174995907935564573_n.jpg?oh=648500e38da4d6b046431e91549dedec&oe=59C7D44A
19990591_1570372716356943_2476784958869525712_n.jpg?oh=b69acdb70d1893b99fe8709c3945c50e&oe=5A0EEF52
www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller

Comments

  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,818
    saved for future information
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • toddler316toddler316 Drunk Shit Hustler Joined: Posts: 8,082 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Interesting project.
    Bookmarking for future updates.
    Russell Crowe: This is Tianamen Square. Lots of good fightin' has gone on here throughout the years.These China men can grow to over five feet tall, and in a fight, are known to kick with their legs.

    As the infamous Bruce Lee said: "To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person."

    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • FreedomGundamFreedomGundam Freedom, ikimasu! Joined: Posts: 2,431
    A couple of questions:
    1) Would there be any way to have this become an analog stick entirely? (ie, output Lx/Ly/Rx/Ry signals)
    2) Any more details on the installation? From the mounted photos, unless I'm mistaken, it looks like it's the "last" part to be mounted onto the JLF housing; is there any change in terms of standard restrictor-gate installation?

    Current at-home stick: Hori VLX Kuro (LS-40-01 + PS-14-K)
    Current portable stick: Mad Catz TvC (LS-40-01 + PS-14-KN)
    Current guest-sticks: custom ABS Modular stick (JLF + OBSN-30), custom Saint-stick (Happ/IL Competition)
    Cabinet: custom "Resistor" cabinet (32" LCD, X360, P1=LS-32-01 + PS-14-KN, P2=JLF + OBSC-30)
    Previous sticks: custom Happ CvS2 Double-sticks, custom Happ Hitomi-stick & Xenosaga-stick, custom Sanwa/Seimitsu Neptune-stick and Sylvia-stick, modded Mad Catz TvC, modded Mad Catz Brawlstick, modded Hori FSVX, modded Exar Exaprize

    Looking for:
    CPS2 (green or blue): Hyper SF2
    Naomi GD-ROM: SF Zero3 Upper, Puyo Puyo Fever, Triggerheart Excelica, Ikaruga
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 890
    Blast from the past! Glad to see it get a new thread.
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 274
    Questions:

    1)price range?

    2) JLF stock snap fit assembly of the switch PCB to the 4 clipping tabs is rather loose/wobbly.
    Did you find a way to compensate for the imprecision of the stock JLF assembly? ...because inductive sensing can be quite precise, but if the Magenta's white base + sensor pcb, as a whole (PCB and Magenta base seem firmly screwed together), is moving laterally a few fractions of mm or more ( like the omron pcb does)... due to the fact that the Magenta will be snap fit to those bendy JLF tabs...it would counter the precision of the sensing.
    You state: "you can rotate the map to correct for a slight hook or slice" . Ok, but that's when you calibrate just before playing, during setup. If an assembly is wobbly, it will move -during- the play, and calibration will be of little help since calibration adjusts for initial misplacement of parts only.

    3)On the Iplaywinner article, the older prototype presented is different and had still the Omron switch PCB along with your sensor assembly. It seems you implemented this to keep the inital return force from the switches? Or was it for another reason? That proto would not be noiseless then, if the switches are still present. The photos on this thread show almost nothing for the new model besides the bottom of the Magenta PCB and the base connecting to the JLF tabs.

    4)Proto seen on Iplaywinner shows no sign of original sanwa restrictor. It seems the Magenta's base is the restrictor but the pics didn't indicate if the said base could accept different types of additional restrictor modules to change the type of restriction ( as the original Sanwa restrictor gate did, with the additional brittle octo and circle clip-on modules).
    Does the new Magenta offer different types of mechanical restriction?

    5)Pure 2way and pure 4way (either cardinal or diagonal) in vintage games.
    It seems possible with your new sensor unit, as cardinals and diagonals can be independently enabled/disabled -via software- . Even odd type 4 way input restriction such as diagonals only is possible( if my memory serves me right Q*bert allowed only for 4way diagonal inputs as opposed to other cardinal 4way inputs found in vintage arcade games)
    It's one thing to have the inputs tweakable via software, and another one to restrict mechanically the movement during play (debated to death btw on other arcade forums). Some people did propose to just have a very wide circle restriction(mechanical restriction) , advising to "never ride the gate", and to have say pure 2way or pure 4way play restricted solely via software for vintage games , but it completely puts aside the feel of old levers whcih mechanically restricted the play to say 2 way or 4 way.
    so this question is directly related to question 4) : is user modified software restriction coupled with different mechanical types of restriction or did you rely only on software?
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,818
    A couple of questions:
    1) Would there be any way to have this become an analog stick entirely? (ie, output Lx/Ly/Rx/Ry signals)
    2) Any more details on the installation? From the mounted photos, unless I'm mistaken, it looks like it's the "last" part to be mounted onto the JLF housing; is there any change in terms of standard restrictor-gate installation?

    1) No analog output on the current iteration for a variety of reasons, we are aiming mostly at the fight stick lever replacement for now.
    2) this is mounted to a JLF housing but will be shipped as a complete unit. This requires a new shaft, actuator, restrictor gate etc, all with the goal of adding a minimal amount (about 1/8") to the depth of the JLF. It fits well in in a TE2 case.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,818
    Agieze wrote: »
    Questions:

    1)price range?

    2) JLF stock snap fit assembly of the switch PCB to the 4 clipping tabs is rather loose/wobbly.
    Did you find a way to compensate for the imprecision of the stock JLF assembly? ...because inductive sensing can be quite precise, but if the Magenta's white base + sensor pcb, as a whole (PCB and Magenta base seem firmly screwed together), is moving laterally a few fractions of mm or more ( like the omron pcb does)... due to the fact that the Magenta will be snap fit to those bendy JLF tabs...it would counter the precision of the sensing.
    You state: "you can rotate the map to correct for a slight hook or slice" . Ok, but that's when you calibrate just before playing, during setup. If an assembly is wobbly, it will move -during- the play, and calibration will be of little help since calibration adjusts for initial misplacement of parts only.

    3)On the Iplaywinner article, the older prototype presented is different and had still the Omron switch PCB along with your sensor assembly. It seems you implemented this to keep the inital return force from the switches? Or was it for another reason? That proto would not be noiseless then, if the switches are still present. The photos on this thread show almost nothing for the new model besides the bottom of the Magenta PCB and the base connecting to the JLF tabs.

    4)Proto seen on Iplaywinner shows no sign of original sanwa restrictor. It seems the Magenta's base is the restrictor but the pics didn't indicate if the said base could accept different types of additional restrictor modules to change the type of restriction ( as the original Sanwa restrictor gate did, with the additional brittle octo and circle clip-on modules).
    Does the new Magenta offer different types of mechanical restriction?

    5)Pure 2way and pure 4way (either cardinal or diagonal) in vintage games.
    It seems possible with your new sensor unit, as cardinals and diagonals can be independently enabled/disabled -via software- . Even odd type 4 way input restriction such as diagonals only is possible( if my memory serves me right Q*bert allowed only for 4way diagonal inputs as opposed to other cardinal 4way inputs found in vintage arcade games)
    It's one thing to have the inputs tweakable via software, and another one to restrict mechanically the movement during play (debated to death btw on other arcade forums). Some people did propose to just have a very wide circle restriction(mechanical restriction) , advising to "never ride the gate", and to have say pure 2way or pure 4way play restricted solely via software for vintage games , but it completely puts aside the feel of old levers whcih mechanically restricted the play to say 2 way or 4 way.
    so this question is directly related to question 4) : is user modified software restriction coupled with different mechanical types of restriction or did you rely only on software?

    1) price range will be 99.99 to 99.99
    2) this is very firmly held in place. We can detect shaking the joystick case, so we need stability. this uses not just the 4 snap tables but also the 4 location tabs, circumferentially and with the ledge on them
    3) The switches can be kept or taken off, they do not impact the function aside from centering force. Some people will like them because they keep the clicky feel. The testing we did at evo had a heavier spring in place and switches off.
    4) The restrictor is integrated and at least a first only the square gate will be offered. As I'm sure you can understand these are extremely sensitive sensors and are optimized over a very specific area, changing restrictors will do more than just change the pattern of movement
    5) This can be set to 4 way, cardinal or diagonal (Qbert fans rejoice), or two way
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 428
    Damn. Please find a partner shop to distribute your stuff in Europe, because if this is as good as it sounds its gonna cost me an arm and a leg in shipping and customs to equip all my sticks with this thing.
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,818
    Dubon wrote: »
    Damn. Please find a partner shop to distribute your stuff in Europe, because if this is as good as it sounds its gonna cost me an arm and a leg in shipping and customs to equip all my sticks with this thing.

    Lol, we offered Kayane one but she never came to the booth. We will work on that.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,650
    edited July 18
    cool!
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,647
    edited 1:19AM
    Hmmm...

    Can you also make a Magenta stick?
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