Project Magenta 2017

armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.comJoined: Posts: 1,826
edited July 17 in Tech Talk
Instead of reviving an old thread, I'm just starting new one, and the Magenta (at least the pre molded gate one) is here....

Some of the comments from Evo:
This joystick is my dream
This is a game changer
I have been telling everyone about this - Mr Wizard, our first install/customer
This is some amazing shit
I went from hitting 1 out of 4 times to hitting that move almost every time

The feedback was extremely positive, with one single detractor, "People want clicks though", to which I said, "We can leave the micros" @Toodles

This was a project we announced 5 years ago and has come to fruition through some blood, sweat and tears.

Magenta is an analog joystick that takes an analog field and maps it to digital outputs. In other words, this takes something like this:
20229357_1572107589516789_5203059030728703684_n.jpg?oh=5a5a2cf4a5570eaba1d69110fbd1ed06&oe=59FB777C

And makes it communicate with your stick like 4 microswitches...

So what does this mean, it means you can change how the stick behaves with different positions and tweak to your play:
1) Each direction can have independent slider control to determine sensitivity
2) You can change the relationship or the cardinals and diagonals
3) you can rotate the map to correct for a slight hook or slice
4) 4 different modes are stored so you can easily switch between games

The plan is to launch this fall, but I wanted to open a thread for discussion and to say I'm really glad to be back on TT more!
Quick FAQ that will be elaborated on:
1) You program by mini usb directly to your computer
2) Security in place to prevent tampering
3) Installed just like an optical, and does require a 5v power source
4) Has been declared tournament legal!!!!

Pictures from Evo:
20108223_1570372666356948_2174995907935564573_n.jpg?oh=648500e38da4d6b046431e91549dedec&oe=59C7D44A
19990591_1570372716356943_2476784958869525712_n.jpg?oh=b69acdb70d1893b99fe8709c3945c50e&oe=5A0EEF52
www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
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Comments

  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    saved for future information
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • toddler316toddler316 Drunk Shit Hustler Joined: Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Interesting project.
    Bookmarking for future updates.
    Russell Crowe: This is Tianamen Square. Lots of good fightin' has gone on here throughout the years.These China men can grow to over five feet tall, and in a fight, are known to kick with their legs.

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  • FreedomGundamFreedomGundam Freedom, ikimasu! Joined: Posts: 2,521
    A couple of questions:
    1) Would there be any way to have this become an analog stick entirely? (ie, output Lx/Ly/Rx/Ry signals)
    2) Any more details on the installation? From the mounted photos, unless I'm mistaken, it looks like it's the "last" part to be mounted onto the JLF housing; is there any change in terms of standard restrictor-gate installation?

    Current at-home stick: Hori VLX Kuro (LS-40-01 + PS-14-K)
    Current portable stick: Mad Catz TvC (LS-40-01 + PS-14-KN)
    Current guest-sticks: custom ABS Modular stick (JLF + OBSN-30), custom Saint-stick (Happ/IL Competition)
    Cabinet: custom "Resistor" cabinet (32" LCD, X360, P1=LS-32-01 + PS-14-KN, P2=JLF + OBSC-30)
    Previous sticks: custom Happ CvS2 Double-sticks, custom Happ Hitomi-stick & Xenosaga-stick, custom Sanwa/Seimitsu Neptune-stick and Sylvia-stick, modded Mad Catz TvC, modded Mad Catz Brawlstick, modded Hori FSVX, modded Exar Exaprize

    Looking for:
    CPS2 (green or blue): Hyper SF2
    Naomi GD-ROM: SF Zero3 Upper, Puyo Puyo Fever, Triggerheart Excelica, Ikaruga
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,264
    Blast from the past! Glad to see it get a new thread.
  • AgiezeAgieze Joined: Posts: 306
    Questions:

    1)price range?

    2) JLF stock snap fit assembly of the switch PCB to the 4 clipping tabs is rather loose/wobbly.
    Did you find a way to compensate for the imprecision of the stock JLF assembly? ...because inductive sensing can be quite precise, but if the Magenta's white base + sensor pcb, as a whole (PCB and Magenta base seem firmly screwed together), is moving laterally a few fractions of mm or more ( like the omron pcb does)... due to the fact that the Magenta will be snap fit to those bendy JLF tabs...it would counter the precision of the sensing.
    You state: "you can rotate the map to correct for a slight hook or slice" . Ok, but that's when you calibrate just before playing, during setup. If an assembly is wobbly, it will move -during- the play, and calibration will be of little help since calibration adjusts for initial misplacement of parts only.

    3)On the Iplaywinner article, the older prototype presented is different and had still the Omron switch PCB along with your sensor assembly. It seems you implemented this to keep the inital return force from the switches? Or was it for another reason? That proto would not be noiseless then, if the switches are still present. The photos on this thread show almost nothing for the new model besides the bottom of the Magenta PCB and the base connecting to the JLF tabs.

    4)Proto seen on Iplaywinner shows no sign of original sanwa restrictor. It seems the Magenta's base is the restrictor but the pics didn't indicate if the said base could accept different types of additional restrictor modules to change the type of restriction ( as the original Sanwa restrictor gate did, with the additional brittle octo and circle clip-on modules).
    Does the new Magenta offer different types of mechanical restriction?

    5)Pure 2way and pure 4way (either cardinal or diagonal) in vintage games.
    It seems possible with your new sensor unit, as cardinals and diagonals can be independently enabled/disabled -via software- . Even odd type 4 way input restriction such as diagonals only is possible( if my memory serves me right Q*bert allowed only for 4way diagonal inputs as opposed to other cardinal 4way inputs found in vintage arcade games)
    It's one thing to have the inputs tweakable via software, and another one to restrict mechanically the movement during play (debated to death btw on other arcade forums). Some people did propose to just have a very wide circle restriction(mechanical restriction) , advising to "never ride the gate", and to have say pure 2way or pure 4way play restricted solely via software for vintage games , but it completely puts aside the feel of old levers whcih mechanically restricted the play to say 2 way or 4 way.
    so this question is directly related to question 4) : is user modified software restriction coupled with different mechanical types of restriction or did you rely only on software?
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    A couple of questions:
    1) Would there be any way to have this become an analog stick entirely? (ie, output Lx/Ly/Rx/Ry signals)
    2) Any more details on the installation? From the mounted photos, unless I'm mistaken, it looks like it's the "last" part to be mounted onto the JLF housing; is there any change in terms of standard restrictor-gate installation?

    1) No analog output on the current iteration for a variety of reasons, we are aiming mostly at the fight stick lever replacement for now.
    2) this is mounted to a JLF housing but will be shipped as a complete unit. This requires a new shaft, actuator, restrictor gate etc, all with the goal of adding a minimal amount (about 1/8") to the depth of the JLF. It fits well in in a TE2 case.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 497
    Damn. Please find a partner shop to distribute your stuff in Europe, because if this is as good as it sounds its gonna cost me an arm and a leg in shipping and customs to equip all my sticks with this thing.
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    Dubon wrote: »
    Damn. Please find a partner shop to distribute your stuff in Europe, because if this is as good as it sounds its gonna cost me an arm and a leg in shipping and customs to equip all my sticks with this thing.

    Lol, we offered Kayane one but she never came to the booth. We will work on that.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,661
    edited July 18
    cool!
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    edited July 24
    Hmmm...

    Can you also make a Magenta stick?
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Hmmm...

    Can you also make a Magenta stick?

    What do you mean

    for those of you with Magenta's, there is a limited run in the market, the update is here.
    http://arcadeupgrades.com/products/magenta/software/Magenta_Setup-20170714a.zip

    @ZonbiPanda spent some time with @MrWizard and they were seeing some really nice results with the stick.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • butterojbutteroj You Are Luminous Joined: Posts: 1,582
    edited August 1
    666879_img1048_460x345.jpg

    Quick initial thoughts.....
    1: WOW!

    2: tension is perfect. 4# spring is just right. Does not feel "heavy" at all

    3: out of the box, it is better than anything I have ever used, and I have used everything. I have used every optical jlf stick (flash, flash 2.0, Spark, Spark 2.0, Ascii and Gamerfinger) and hated each and every one within a week. They all felt "sloppy" to me. This is the exact opposite. In my initial hour of use this morning I never once dropped a combo, missed an input, or did anything I didn't mean to do. It is honestly an instant execution enhancement.

    4: Amount of customization is ridiculous. Rotation of cardinal directions can be done is 90* increments, as well as 1*, allowing for a perfectly centered stick. Each direction and diagonal can be changed in 1% increments. Want to get rid of downward diags? Turn them off. Want 4 way only? No problem. 2 way? Sure! You can load 4 profiles on the stick, which can be switched via the onboard mode button, or by hooking up a button to the white connector.

    I plan on putting in a lot of time on this over the next couple of weeks, but I already plan on replacing everything I own with these. Bryan has completely changed the game.
    Post edited by butteroj on

     

  • Murphy0XMurphy0X Joined: Posts: 67
    armi0024 wrote: »

    1) No analog output on the current iteration for a variety of reasons, we are aiming mostly at the fight stick lever replacement for now.
    2) this is mounted to a JLF housing but will be shipped as a complete unit. This requires a new shaft, actuator, restrictor gate etc, all with the goal of adding a minimal amount (about 1/8") to the depth of the JLF. It fits well in in a TE2 case.


    @armi0024 @Phreakazoid How different is the shaft? I really want to try this thing but I'd have a hard time giving up my link shaft.

  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    Murphy0X wrote: »
    armi0024 wrote: »

    1) No analog output on the current iteration for a variety of reasons, we are aiming mostly at the fight stick lever replacement for now.
    2) this is mounted to a JLF housing but will be shipped as a complete unit. This requires a new shaft, actuator, restrictor gate etc, all with the goal of adding a minimal amount (about 1/8") to the depth of the JLF. It fits well in in a TE2 case.


    @armi0024 @Phreakazoid How different is the shaft? I really want to try this thing but I'd have a hard time giving up my link shaft.

    we are working on this... and @Phreakazoid has been very cooperative
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • WHITE_4ND_N3RDYWHITE_4ND_N3RDY Joined: Posts: 111
    @armi0024 do u have a date in mind when these will be mass produced and up for sell at paradise?
    WHITE 4ND N3RDY: Acidmods admin, Controllermax staff member. Cement Masons Local 555, representing the triple nickel.
  • DirrtyPopDirrtyPop Joined: Posts: 205
    edited August 1
    wow im impressed...do you have an estimate whe nthey will be avalable??
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    Target for release is September, and so far we are ahead of protection for being ready

    @DirrtyPop Thank you
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • ZonbiPandaZonbiPanda Joined: Posts: 73
    Schedule permitting I should have two Magenta Analog fight sticks available for play testing at the 8/2 Wednesday Night Fights ( https://www.esportsarena.com/santa-ana ). This time the Magenta Lever will be installed in both the MADCATZ TE2 and HORI HRAP4 fight sticks for use at WNF.

    If you did not have the opportunity to experience Magenta at EVO swing by an introduce yourself. I can walk you through the process of analyzing your play style and customizing the stick to YOUR requirements.

    - ZP
  • sasquachsasquach Joined: Posts: 369
    armi0024 wrote: »
    we are working on this... and @Phreakazoid has been very cooperative
    Does this mean we'll have JLF Link options down the road for it? :open_mouth:
    Then I'm assuming the throw range will be just like the JLF if I'm correct?
    But I am really hyped for this overall.
    "I'm just nice" -Harry Potter
  • MeiliIsCharmMeiliIsCharm Joined: Posts: 25
    Is it possible if you can cooperate with istmall and bring your stick to Korea? This looks very interesting
  • DubonDubon Joined: Posts: 497
    armi0024 wrote: »
    Dubon wrote: »
    Damn. Please find a partner shop to distribute your stuff in Europe, because if this is as good as it sounds its gonna cost me an arm and a leg in shipping and customs to equip all my sticks with this thing.

    Lol, we offered Kayane one but she never came to the booth. We will work on that.
    For Europe please consider working with smallcab.net please! Theyre my favorite euro shop by far.
  • FrankCastleAZFrankCastleAZ SRKTT Modder of the Year 2014 & AZHP Gaming Founder Joined: Posts: 910
    I got to witness this first hand at EVO and it's f*cking SEXY!
    Good work Bryan keep it up!
    SRK Tech Talk Modder of the Year 2014 - Best retail sticks of all time = Onyx/Pearl, TE1, Dragon, VLX
    AZHP Gaming - Providing casual and tournament video gaming services at events and conventions since 2006
    Paradise Arcade Shop <-- Buy all of your arcade parts from here
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  • HassunHassun Joined: Posts: 114
    Will be interested in trying it once it's available.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,875
    Well if Mr Wizard himself gave it an outstanding review, then you know armi0024 is on to something.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • ZonbiPandaZonbiPanda Joined: Posts: 73
    So if any of you saw the magenta analog stick demo at EVO 2017 you probably noticed we left the stick setup software connected to the stick running all weekend. This is actually something the magenta was not designed to do but it does not impact game play since the two tasks run concurrently. What we did discover is that by watching the magenta lever output on the PC you can visually see the difference between bad / average / good players. This lead to a number of discussions and an additional proof of concept app that records and display the stick inputs for later review!

    Looking at the images below can you tell who likes to ride the gate and who does a better Hadouken? Data was collected at various events with permission and the names withheld protect the guilty. =)



    y3T1qGx.jpg

    zLLvj3n.jpg

    461o9xS.jpg

    NnabpHA.jpg


    .
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,148
    armi0024 wrote: »
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Hmmm...

    Can you also make a Magenta stick?

    What do you mean

    for those of you with Magenta's, there is a limited run in the market, the update is here.
    http://arcadeupgrades.com/products/magenta/software/Magenta_Setup-20170714a.zip

    @ZonbiPanda spent some time with @MrWizard and they were seeing some really nice results with the stick.

    I know that Magenta supposed to upgrade various different fightsticks. Are you able to make a custom Magenta stick with Magenta logos and /or colors and so forth on the stick?
  • zrider99zrzrider99zr Joined: Posts: 3
    Any thoughts on using the magenta for an analog gamecube fightstick.
  • NENDONENDO I will meditate and then destroy you. Joined: Posts: 3,350
    zrider99zr wrote: »
    Any thoughts on using the magenta for an analog gamecube fightstick.

    This was discussed above.
  • mikeoharamikeohara Old Man Hands Joined: Posts: 276 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    definitely interested in this tech. Tagging for future developments on the project!
  • SkarreSkarre Joined: Posts: 20
    edited August 12
    Dubon wrote: »
    For Europe please consider working with smallcab.net please! Theyre my favorite euro shop by far.
    +1 :) They're easily the best shop regarding whole Europe.

    The Hori RAP4/V pcb has a 6-pin JST(?) connector which I guess would allow the Magenta to plug in directly? At least they've soldered the 5 cables from the stick to it. A picture from my RAPV for reference, the one the right:

    Ks53Gw0.jpg

    Now, would it be possible to have a change to purchase a cable with the Magenta which would plug it in directly to Hori RAP4 & V? I guess something like this:

    CAB-00009-2.jpg

    If they're would be a change to plugin instead of soldering one would definitely go for that, and the Magenta looks awesome!



    Post edited by Skarre on
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    This is possible with the HRAP
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • SkarreSkarre Joined: Posts: 20
    edited August 13
    armi0024 wrote: »
    This is possible with the HRAP
    Great, thanks!
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Quickly becoming the Sailor Moon S guy. Joined: Posts: 13,851
    ZonbiPanda wrote: »
    So if any of you saw the magenta analog stick demo at EVO 2017 you probably noticed we left the stick setup software connected to the stick running all weekend. This is actually something the magenta was not designed to do but it does not impact game play since the two tasks run concurrently. What we did discover is that by watching the magenta lever output on the PC you can visually see the difference between bad / average / good players. This lead to a number of discussions and an additional proof of concept app that records and display the stick inputs for later review!

    Looking at the images below can you tell who likes to ride the gate and who does a better Hadouken? Data was collected at various events with permission and the names withheld protect the guilty. =)

    @ZonbiPanda one of those has to be me, and I'd guess it's the top one lol. But yeah, that's interesting data. :tup:
    XBL: WatCnBrwnDo4U | PSN: LanierIsPlusEV/FORpowerfulGame | CFN: MissingPerson/YddeDdeDe GGPO/FightCade: Missing Person | Steam: [TAS] Missing Person | Battle.net: MissingPersn#1365
    Twitter: JTMMissingPersn | Instagram: jtmmissingperson | Twitch: twitch.tv/missingpersonsrk
  • emphaticemphatic Joined: Posts: 478
    Stellar work!

    Am I correct in assuming you can switch from modes 1-4 with just the flick of a small switch on the PCB?

    Idea for future version: Instead of having physical switches that clicks, would it be possible to have a small "speaker" that makes a clicking sound whenever an engage point is hit? (Serious question).
    I love shmups and never play fighting games.
    Here's my Guwange stick: http://www.emphatic.se/?p=197
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Quickly becoming the Sailor Moon S guy. Joined: Posts: 13,851
    emphatic wrote: »
    Stellar work!

    Am I correct in assuming you can switch from modes 1-4 with just the flick of a small switch on the PCB?

    Idea for future version: Instead of having physical switches that clicks, would it be possible to have a small "speaker" that makes a clicking sound whenever an engage point is hit? (Serious question).

    There's a momentary on the PCB, but there's also a wiring harness on it that you can set to go to a button on your stick to act as a modal button without having to open the case.
    XBL: WatCnBrwnDo4U | PSN: LanierIsPlusEV/FORpowerfulGame | CFN: MissingPerson/YddeDdeDe GGPO/FightCade: Missing Person | Steam: [TAS] Missing Person | Battle.net: MissingPersn#1365
    Twitter: JTMMissingPersn | Instagram: jtmmissingperson | Twitch: twitch.tv/missingpersonsrk
  • armi0024armi0024 Dash Cancel Expert, paradisearcadeshop.com Joined: Posts: 1,826
    emphatic wrote: »
    Stellar work!

    Am I correct in assuming you can switch from modes 1-4 with just the flick of a small switch on the PCB?

    Idea for future version: Instead of having physical switches that clicks, would it be possible to have a small "speaker" that makes a clicking sound whenever an engage point is hit? (Serious question).

    The clicking is possible now, would be a hack but there is an LED that goes on every time a direction is hit.
    www.paradisearcadeshop.com Sanwa, Seimitsu and a ton of custom parts
    2015 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, OBS-MX buttons
    2014 Tech Talk Stick Mod of the Year, LVT3 TE2
    2013 Tech Talk Store of the Year and Product of the Year, Kaimana Led Controller
  • buttmuffin2539buttmuffin2539 Joined: Posts: 7
    Will this joystick require the connectors to be installed facing a certain direction, or can the directions be chosen via the computer program?
  • butterojbutteroj You Are Luminous Joined: Posts: 1,582
    Will this joystick require the connectors to be installed facing a certain direction, or can the directions be chosen via the computer program?

    They can be rotated via software

     

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