How hard is it to make a 2.5D fighting game ?

DevilRaptorBDevilRaptorB Joined: Posts: 7
to make a 2D fighting game with full sprites characters is very costly based on this site
http://2dwillneverdie.com/blog/how-much-do-sprites-cost/

but what if the whole roster is made of 3D models that are made to play like 2D ? like GGxrd?

Comments

  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 827
    edited July 18
    Considering it could cost around $1,000,000 or more to create 1 SF4 character, if you're thinking that it'll be cheaper to go 2.5D then you're badly mistaken. Of course, this all depends on the quality that you're after, one could pump out some game that looks and plays like garbage for pretty cheap.
  • RouninRounin Joined: Posts: 174
    AirLancer wrote: »
    Considering it could cost around $1,000,000 or more to create 1 SF4 character, if you're thinking that it'll be cheaper to go 2.5D then you're badly mistaken. Of course, this all depends on the quality that you're after, one could pump out some game that looks and plays like garbage for pretty cheap.

    I think a lot of it has to do with lack DLC costumes for 2 characters. Anyway, bring back 2d for SF.
  • TKRTKR Inventor of Toe Socks Joined: Posts: 215
    It is extremely easy and free.

    Go on Youtube, find the video tutorial that tells you how to do it with Unity.
    Download Unity and start following the videos.

    All the sprites you need you can get for free on the Unity resources pages. Same with audio and sound FX.

    If you are a creative person you can use all of that and make something semi decent. But it will be generic because you will have the same sounds and models/sprites as everybody else who does it.

    You can get some software that allows you to edit 3D models and you can make whatever changes you want. You can make your own music with free music creation software and you can record your own SFX if you want as well.

    But it won't be anything impressive really.

    If you want something great it will cost money, or you will need to find programmers and modelers and sound designers to do it all for free, or a share of profits, or a bag of sherbet, which you wont.

    Your other option is to use MUGEN. Its free, all the assets are free, there is a massive community that supports it. And no matter how crap the game is it will do well within the community, because MUGEN.
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 827
    TKR wrote: »
    Your other option is to use MUGEN. Its free, all the assets are free, there is a massive community that supports it. And no matter how crap the game is it will do well within the community, because MUGEN.

    Oh boy, I can't wait for 20 characters all made out of edited Kula Diamond sprites.
  • The_ShakunetsuThe_Shakunetsu Mystic Stone Gem Ryu Joined: Posts: 3,694
    edited July 19
    It's about the people you talk with artist nowadays outsource and just direct skilled people to do their work to go by there preference. If you know your style and preference seek instead skilled people directly or find people that fit your imagined style. If you can devout time in learning it's better.

    SFV Arcademode, Storymode with SFA3 World Tour Challenges & Vtrigger/Vskill ideas
    Arcade Mode Concepts - Better than traditional Arcade Mode | Story Mode Suggestion - Battle Challenges, Battle Attack & Battle Type | V-Trigger & V-Skill Ideas

    Character Wishlist SFV, DBFZ and MVCi

    My DB Characters for DBFZ
    Solo Characters
    1.) Picolo
    2.) Killin
    3.) Kid Buu
    4.) Pikon
    5.) Hit
    6.) Broly - legendary
    7.) Super Janemba
    8.) Gotenks SSJ3
    9.) Great Ape Baby or Adult Form
    10.) Syn Shenron - can transform to Omega
    11.) Caulifa
    12.) Kale
    13.) Dabora with Babidi

    Pair/Tag Character - Can be either like the implementation of this characters in the named game: Choi with Chang in CVS2, Cait with Sith in Code Chaos, Hisuii with Kohaku in MB, Danny with Demi in the Outfoxies, Jie Mei Hua in Dong Dong Never Dies and Groove-&-Fight's Oume with Otane.
    14.) Android 18 with Andriod 17
    15.) Rose with Zamasu
    16.) Dr Jero with Andriod 19
    17.) Yamcha with Puar
    18.) Dabura and Babidi

    Team Character - Can be either like the implementation of this characters in the named game: Captain Commando in MVC2, Doronjo in TVC, Tronbone in MVC2 or Ace Attorney in UMVC3.
    19.) Tien - Some specials summons Chiaozu and Launch
    20.) Ginew Forces - with The Ginew Forces Plays like (Captain Commando in MVC2 or Doronjo in TVC)
    21.) Meta Cooler - Plays like Ultron in MVCi
    22.) Roshi - Some specials summons Turtle and Oolong
    23.) Napa - Summon numerous Saibamen (like Gargos Ki or Tronbone in MVC2)
    24.) Bojack

    My Capcom Characters for Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite
    SIGMA X ULTRON HENCHMEN- Consist of bounty hunters, heroes rival, dominant forces and altered or robotized Capcom characters.

    1.) Cyber Akuma - Akuma with cybernetic enhancement, Ryu's recurring rival.
    2.) Mecha Zangief - A Zangief cloned Repliod.
    3.) Devilot with Super-8 from Cyberbots. (older version that look like Doronjo and plays like Doronjo TVC and Trone bonne combined)
    4.) Cyborg Charlie Nash -MvSF Bison's Ending with Shadow lady missiles and electric shock

    CAPCOM- New Characters

    1.) Felyne - from Monster Hunter (rival to Rocket Racoon)
    2.) Hauzer - from Warzard (Godzilla and Kaiju)
    3.) Son-Son - the original son-son (male) (Goku) (plays like Tekkaman Blade in TVC)
    4.) Nina - from Breath of Fire (plot can be from the cause of using Reality Gem)
    5.) Saturn Dyer - Plasma Sword Character (The Mask) (plays like Yatterman -1 in TVC)
    6.) Tessa/Tabasa - from Warzard (her previous plots revolves on crystals involvement)
    7.) Pure and Fur - Protector of Capcom world.
    8.) Rouge - Power Stone (her previous plots revolves on acquiring power stones involvement)
    9.) Anita(Older) (DS/VS What if Character) - A like a Jojo bizzare character/persona/shaman king, summoner that summons Donovan and his sword (Touhou)
    10.) Ingrid - A crossover character
    11.) Ruby Heart - MVC2 (Magic stone involvement) Pirate
    12.) Asura - from Asura's Wrath.
    13.) Astaroth - from Ghost and Goblins size is like Dormammu or from Project-X-Zone
    14.) Nero - Devil May Cry (mix of Vergil, Dante and TVC Soki)
    15.) Shoma - Rival Schools

    MARVEL

    1.) Doom
    2.) Spider-man
    3.) Wolverine
    4.) Thanos
    5.) Venom
    6.) Cyclops

    My Characters for SF5's 4th Season onwards





    Necro
    Xianyu with Jianyu or Noembelu

    New Characters

    Different Playstyle I want in SFV
    1.) Xianyu and Jianyu - as a pair fights like Choi and Chang in CVS2.
    2.) Delta Red Rep!! - Can play like Captain Commando. (Team/Ginew/Turtles)
    3.) Yun and Yang - play like how rival school or Capcom Fighting Jam works you can switch characters after or before round in matches.
    4.) I want Lee or a Jacky Chan Rep to be a character that plays tricky on block and overheads like Iron Fist in UMVC3.

    Characters I want to return
    1.) Sodom
    2.) Maki
    3.) Eagle
    4.) Necro
    5.) Oro

    Characters and concepts that need to explored before going to SF3 Timeline
    1.) Tom
    2.) Noembelu

    Designs I want to see again in SF
    1.) Asuka (from concept design) - play like KOF kazumi and Hokuto from SFex
    2.) Wraith (Slam Master)

    SFV Guest from SF expansions
    1.) Skullomania
    2.) Garuda

    Extra Battle and Cameo Costumes

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/216908/extra-battle-thoughts-and-ideas-for-dlc-costumes-and-npc-encounters
  • DevilRaptorBDevilRaptorB Joined: Posts: 7
    AirLancer wrote: »
    Considering it could cost around $1,000,000 or more to create 1 SF4 character, if you're thinking that it'll be cheaper to go 2.5D then you're badly mistaken. Of course, this all depends on the quality that you're after, one could pump out some game that looks and plays like garbage for pretty cheap.
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing#/

    1000000 to create a 3D character? much more expensive then a full game? Skullgirls is said to just need 150K according to that link anyway
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 827

    1000000 to create a 3D character? much more expensive then a full game? Skullgirls is said to just need 150K according to that link anyway

    Skullgirls was also done exceptionally cheaply (in terms of money needed, not quality). The cost for Skullgirls isn't representative of "normal" rates,

  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 785
    edited July 22
    Your question is WAY too broad. There is no way to properly answer it. Here are some things to consider:

    1) How detailed are your models? How many polys? Are you trying to do some crazy shit like GG Xrd?
    2) What's the art direction like? Hyper realistic? Simple and flat? What about partiicle effects, lighting, and all the other graphical embellishments?
    3) How complicated is your system? Is there tagging? What are juggles and combos like? Is it simple like SF2 or complicated like Marvel 3?
    4) How experienced are you with creating art? How experienced are you at programming? Are you doing this alone? Are there people helping you?
    5) Where do you live? What are average salaries like? Is this a project done out of love, or is this something you are doing professionally as an organization?

    "How hard is it to make a fighting game" is like asking "how do I become successful". Unless you give specifics there is no way to answer this.

    In terms of JUST animation, 2d animation is more work overall. 3d models are more work up front, but once everything is modeled and rigged making and modifying animations is much faster and more cost effective. This is why MOST fighting games use 3d models for the characters now. Also, there are much more people these days who know how to do 3d stuff than 2d stuff. 2D is a bit of a dying art in some places.

    And, just to be frank -- if you are not experienced making games, a 2d fighter is probably one of the hardest projects you can start with. There are so many little nuances and little stuff you have to deal with when programming a fighting game that other genres of games don't have to deal with. I'd highly suggest if you are new to game-making you start with something else.
    Post edited by bchan009 on
    Check out my work!

    MY WIP FIGHTING GAME

    TUMBLR | hk-5.net
    YOUTUBE | youtube.com/user/bchan009
    TWITTER | twitter.com/bchan009

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    edited July 22
    AirLancer wrote: »
    Considering it could cost around $1,000,000 or more to create 1 SF4 character, if you're thinking that it'll be cheaper to go 2.5D then you're badly mistaken. Of course, this all depends on the quality that you're after, one could pump out some game that looks and plays like garbage for pretty cheap.
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing#/

    1000000 to create a 3D character? much more expensive then a full game? Skullgirls is said to just need 150K according to that link anyway

    150k was not the total budget for Skullgirls. Just the crowdfunded DLC alone cost them almost a million. The original game cost them around 1,700,000, which was with still on the cheap side since Lab Zero were able to cut some of the usual costs.
  • DevilRaptorBDevilRaptorB Joined: Posts: 7
    edited July 22
    ok, let me try to answer bchan009 questions :360:
    bchan009 wrote: »
    1) How detailed are your models? How many polys? Are you trying to do some crazy shit like GG Xrd?
    more like a watered dawn version of Xrd, the only reason why is caz I have been told that 3D models are cheaper and easier to make
    bchan009 wrote: »
    2) What's the art direction like? Hyper realistic? Simple and flat? What about partiicle effects, lighting, and all
    the other graphical embellishments?
    Anime styled fighting game , it didn't have to be some sort of a shiny over the top thing thought
    bchan009 wrote: »
    3) How complicated is your system? Is there tagging? What are juggles and combos like? Is it simple like SF2 or complicated like Marvel 3?
    not as simple as SF2 but is as combo heavey like Skullgirls
    bchan009 wrote: »
    4) How experienced are you with creating art? How experienced are you at programming? Are you doing this alone? Are there people helping you?
    Zero , none , not an artist or a programer of any sort , thats why I planed to get ppl do it for payment
    bchan009 wrote: »
    5) Where do you live? What are average salaries like? Is this a project done out of love, or is this something you are doing professionally as an organization?
    thats like asking Marvel comic about making fighting games when we all know that they are only a comic book company, have nothing to do with video games , as to where do I live, lets just say that I live in a regain that isn't known for developing video games at all , if anything im planing to take the business outside, for like Taiwan maybe

    bchan009 wrote: »
    "How hard is it to make a fighting game" is like asking "how do I become successful". Unless you give specifics there is no way to answer this.
    I don't fully get it , its a 2.5D anime fighting game similar to GG ,BB,UNIN and P4 arena , it does not have to have the same quality thought
    bchan009 wrote: »
    In terms of JUST animation, 2d animation is more work overall. 3d models are more work up front, but once everything is modeled and rigged making and modifying animations is much faster and more cost effective. This is why MOST fighting games use 3d models for the characters now. Also, there are much more people these days who know how to do 3d stuff than 2d stuff. 2D is a bit of a dying art in some places.
    which is why I decided to go 2.5D since its gana be easier in the long run
    bchan009 wrote: »
    And, just to be frank -- if you are not experienced making games, a 2d fighter is probably one of the hardest projects you can start with. There are so many little nuances and little stuff you have to deal with when programming a fighting game that other genres of games don't have to deal with. I'd highly suggest if you are new to game-making you start with something else.
    I do plan something else for start , even I know I needed something smaller for start , I'm just here to get information for future plans
    Post edited by DevilRaptorB on
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,693
    CerV9GZWEAApe1y.jpg

    That hard.
    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 785

    thats like asking Marvel comic about making fighting games when we all know that they are only a comic book company, have nothing to do with video games , as to where do I live, lets just say that I live in a regain that isn't known for developing video games at all , if anything im planing to take the business outside, for like Taiwan maybe

    I ask this because if you are hiring a full team, I'm assuming these people need to eat. Hiring a 5 man team in China is infinitely cheaper than hiring a 5 man team in the US, for example. Cost of living and average salary change depending on where you are located. Where you live can directly influence the size of team you can have.

    If you're just going to straight up hire the people you need and they are going to take care of everything, then the project is doable. Just make sure you have game systems and stuff worked out before you start work. Managing people is a whole different ballgame and comes with its own challenges.

    Check out my work!

    MY WIP FIGHTING GAME

    TUMBLR | hk-5.net
    YOUTUBE | youtube.com/user/bchan009
    TWITTER | twitter.com/bchan009

  • DevilRaptorBDevilRaptorB Joined: Posts: 7
    bchan009 wrote: »
    If you're just going to straight up hire the people you need and they are going to take care of everything, then the project is doable. Just make sure you have game systems and stuff worked out before you start work. Managing people is a whole different ballgame and comes with its own challenges.

    this is why I have plans to study management in university , I expected to help a little to lower risks
  • TKRTKR Inventor of Toe Socks Joined: Posts: 215
    2D is a lot cheaper than 3D and a fraction of the time. I used to make 2D sprites for games in high school for a guy who used to pay me what work out to $50 a character. My sister could draw so she would draw the characters in different poses. And I would then scan them onto the PC and model sprites over them, then use photo shop to pose them in different frames between the starting pose and the final pose. And do sprites over those. Then stitch them together to make them look like they were moving. It would take me 1 week after school for a few minutes to make a fully animated character. And I was expensive and slow. But because I had my sister as a secret weapon, I got a lot of work doing these sorts of things. And I juts gave her 40% of what I made. When things shifted and people didn't want pixelated crappy artwork anymore, She used to draw the characters in maybe 3 or 4 frames of a punch for example, and I would trace the characters to fill in the gaps. Then she would hand colour everything to perfection and I kept 40% of what we made. Took a lot less time as well. Typically about 3 characters where done over a weekend. Then I would scan them in and the hand drawn models were used as the sprites.

    Quick and easy.

    3D, not so much.
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 827
    It really depends on the quality of the sprites or models though. Meanwhile, just reading the OP's posts I doubt his plans are gonna go anywhere.
  • bchan009bchan009 Joined: Posts: 785
    edited August 25
    TKR wrote: »
    2D is a lot cheaper than 3D and a fraction of the time. I used to make 2D sprites for games in high school for a guy who used to pay me what work out to $50 a character. My sister could draw so she would draw the characters in different poses. And I would then scan them onto the PC and model sprites over them, then use photo shop to pose them in different frames between the starting pose and the final pose. And do sprites over those. Then stitch them together to make them look like they were moving. It would take me 1 week after school for a few minutes to make a fully animated character. And I was expensive and slow. But because I had my sister as a secret weapon, I got a lot of work doing these sorts of things. And I juts gave her 40% of what I made. When things shifted and people didn't want pixelated crappy artwork anymore, She used to draw the characters in maybe 3 or 4 frames of a punch for example, and I would trace the characters to fill in the gaps. Then she would hand colour everything to perfection and I kept 40% of what we made. Took a lot less time as well. Typically about 3 characters where done over a weekend. Then I would scan them in and the hand drawn models were used as the sprites.

    Quick and easy.

    3D, not so much.

    It's economy of scale. Low res and low quantity, 2d is easier. High res and high quantity, 3d is MUCH faster. There is a reason 2.5d is preferred by developers now.

    Rigging and creating good models is more time and effort upfront, but you can make an infinite number of animations quickly and easily once you have a properly rigged model to work with. The time put in to set up the model easily makes it worth the time saved later on down the road.
    Check out my work!

    MY WIP FIGHTING GAME

    TUMBLR | hk-5.net
    YOUTUBE | youtube.com/user/bchan009
    TWITTER | twitter.com/bchan009

  • TKRTKR Inventor of Toe Socks Joined: Posts: 215
    bchan009 wrote: »
    TKR wrote: »
    2D is a lot cheaper than 3D and a fraction of the time. I used to make 2D sprites for games in high school for a guy who used to pay me what work out to $50 a character. My sister could draw so she would draw the characters in different poses. And I would then scan them onto the PC and model sprites over them, then use photo shop to pose them in different frames between the starting pose and the final pose. And do sprites over those. Then stitch them together to make them look like they were moving. It would take me 1 week after school for a few minutes to make a fully animated character. And I was expensive and slow. But because I had my sister as a secret weapon, I got a lot of work doing these sorts of things. And I juts gave her 40% of what I made. When things shifted and people didn't want pixelated crappy artwork anymore, She used to draw the characters in maybe 3 or 4 frames of a punch for example, and I would trace the characters to fill in the gaps. Then she would hand colour everything to perfection and I kept 40% of what we made. Took a lot less time as well. Typically about 3 characters where done over a weekend. Then I would scan them in and the hand drawn models were used as the sprites.

    Quick and easy.

    3D, not so much.

    It's economy of scale. Low res and low quantity, 2d is easier. High res and high quantity, 3d is MUCH faster. There is a reason 2.5d is preferred by developers now.

    Rigging and creating good models is more time and effort upfront, but you can make an infinite number of animations quickly and easily once you have a properly rigged model to work with. The time put in to set up the model easily makes it worth the time saved later on down the road.

    Indeed.

    But the point was, its cheap and easy to make a game. 2D, 2.5D or 3D. But you get what you pay for. Do it all your self and its free but will be as good as you can make it with your own skills.

    Pay somebody to do it and it will be to the value of what you are willing to pay for.

    Do some stuff yourself. and pay a higher price for a few odds and ends, and you can have a game that has some cheap crappy elements. And a little polish on top.
Sign In or Register to comment.